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De-Compositing Garfield

M3X said:
We don't use or calc that.
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So why do we use or calc this? The reason I've usually heard for dismissing that is "we base our AP around punching" but this isn't a punch; it's a full-body exertion.
 
i do think you'd have to subtract the height of the truck from the height of the fall, since garfield's fall broke when he landed on the truck
 
Agnaa said:
So why do we use or calc this? The reason I've usually heard for dismissing that is "we base our AP around punching" but this isn't a punch; it's a full-body exertion.
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i don't think this matters much considering that we're calcing this for garfield's durability rather than his ap
 
Agnaa said:
So why do we use or calc this? The reason I've usually heard for dismissing that is "we base our AP around punching" but this isn't a punch; it's a full-body exertion.
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I meant the basic calc you did to disprove the logic. Human standing up will never generate that amount of kinetic energy, that's just wrong.

A punch from an "expert" (aka, a fighter) generates 400 joules. That's why human level limit is 100 Joules according to our AP page.
 
i don't think this matters much considering that we're calcing this for garfield's durability rather than his ap

But still, a human can tank standing up, or jumping from 1m.

I meant the basic calc you did to disprove the logic. Human standing up will never generate that amount of kinetic energy, that's just wrong.

Why not? That's what the physics tells us. Unless physics spontaneously breaks for humans standing up/running and only those situations.

A punch from an "expert" (aka, a fighter) generates 400 joules. That's why human level limit is 100 Joules according to our AP page.

I know, but standing up isn't a punch. You have a lot more muscles than just the ones used in a punch.
 
I don’t think the calc can be used just because normal cats can survive falls up to 30 stories because they have a relatively large surface area compared to their body weight which is what live action Garfield seems to be
 
CuteAnimeNekoGirl99 said:
I don’t think the calc can be used just because normal cats can survive falls up to 30 stories because they have a relatively large surface area compared to their body weight which is what live action Garfield seems to be
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He went through a sheet of steel. I'm pretty sure cats aren't supposed to do that.
 
 
Yeah, and the main reason cats can survive those heights is because of the position they hit the ground
 
Or the fact that a human does not generate more than 600 Joules by standing up? That's literally not possible. You can't withstand more than 80 joules on your head for example, 50 joules is lethal, 68.5 joules is enough to break a skull. Stop with this standing up non sense, it's bullshit.

  1. Your head is not your entire body. Also, you just said earlier that trained fighters output 400 joules with a punch, punches to the head clearly aren't always lethal.
  2. That "50 joules is lethal" is the energy an electrical capacitor would discharge to kill; electricity negates conventional durability. And again, you really think random punches to random parts of the body are lethal?
  3. Again, your skull is not your entire body. And fractures don't just depend on joule value, they depend on the size of the object delivering that force, which is why that study says the range 14.1 to 68.5 joules. You think a 14.1 joule punch will always fracture someone's skull? Would you put all skull-fracture feats you see a character do at 10-C to 10-B?
Regardless, the actual ******* laws of physics are infinitely more reliable than these out-of-context statements. For standing up to not be over 600 joules the laws of physics will have to be wrong. Reckon with that before you type another reply.

Now, it should be noted, unlike what many reports based on this study state, this DOES NOT imply that cats falling from any height should have a 90% survival rate given proper medical attention. The average height was only 5.5 stories, which is insufficient for the cats to reach their terminal velocity.

no.

If you read more than that, you would see that a cat survived a fall from 32 stories. And that 1/3rd of the cats did not require any treatment. The 90% survival rate people throw around is way overblown, but normal cats can survive that without treatment 33% of the time.

And this whole cat bullshit is considering they fell on a proper position, Garfield didn't do that.

And garfield had his fall broken by the steel to reduce some of the energy, and had the rest of it broken by landing on boxes of lasagna. Which makes it easier to survive. It's the same principle as airbags and crumple zones in cars. Increase the duration of the energy change, and it's more easy to survive.
 
If, in the course of your fall, you break an object that requires, say, 100 joules to break, that means you will take 100 fewer joules when landing. The energy has left your body earlier and gone to somewhere else in the environment. Making the eventual fall less harmful.
 
Agnaa said:
Your head is not your entire body. Also, you just said earlier that trained fighters output 400 joules with a punch, punches to the head clearly aren't always lethal.
Click to expand...
Read the article.

When a boxer recognizes that he will be hit in the head by his opponent, the boxer often relaxes his neck and allows his head to move backwards upon impact. In the boxing world, this is known as riding the punch. A boxer rides the punch in order to extend the time of impact of the glove with their head. Extending the time results in decreasing the force and thus minimizing the effect of the force in the collision.
Click to expand...

They don't take full 400 Joules.
Agnaa said:
That "50 joules is lethal" is for an electrical capacitor discharging it, which negates durability. And again, you really think random punches to random parts of the body are lethal?
Click to expand...
Fair. And yes, I do think that a 50 joules punch is lethal.
Agnaa said:
Again, your skull is not your entire body. And fractures don't just depend on joule value, they depend on the size of the object delivering that force, which is why that study says the range 14.1 to 68.5 joules. You think a 14.1 joule punch will always fracture someone's skull?
Click to expand...
And the skull in your calc need to withstand the 600+ Joules too. Search about how durable your skull is compared to the body, and one of the bones present in the skull is one of the most durable ones, only behind the femur obviously. The skull isn't the entire body, sure, but the skull being one of the most durable bones, and only needing about 70 joules to break it, already debunks the idea of a human generating 600 Joules.
Agnaa said:
Regardless, the actual ******* laws of physics are infinitely more reliable than these out-of-context statements. For standing up to not be over 600 joules the laws of physics will have to be wrong. Reckon with that before you type another reply.
Click to expand...
Or your ******* calculation is wrong? Then why don't you simply try to change the AP page? If humans can generate 600 Joules just by standing up, then 50 to 100 Joules need to be changed. Change that or simply stop arguing this.
Agnaa said:
If you read more than that, you would see that a cat survived a fall from 32 stories. And that 1/3rd of the cats did not require any treatment. The 90% survival rate people throw around is way overblown, but normal cats can survive that without treatment.
Click to expand...
Sure, they survive because thy relax during the fall, position and a lot of stuff. Garfield didnt do that. He straight up hit the truck.
Agnaa said:
And garfield had his fall broken by the steel to reduce some of the energy, and had the rest of it broken by landing on boxes of lasagna. Which makes it easier to survive. It's the same principle as airbags and crumple zones in cars. Increase the duration of the energy change, and it's more easy to survive.
Click to expand...
mate, how do you have the balls to say that completely breaking steel during a fall "reduce some of the energy"? The energy would actually be much higher than what I calculated to simply break steel. No way this is easy to survive, you're simply crazy.
 
not responding to this anymore, just contact a CGM and he'll say that 600 joules for simply standing up is completely bullshit and non sense.
 
Read the article.

When a boxer recognizes that he will be hit in the head by his opponent, the boxer often relaxes his neck and allows his head to move backwards upon impact. In the boxing world, this is known as riding the punch. A boxer rides the punch in order to extend the time of impact of the glove with their head. Extending the time results in decreasing the force and thus minimizing the effect of the force in the collision.

They don't take full 400 Joules.

They do take the full 400 Joules, but they extend the time they take it over to reduce the impulse they take, because in our reality, tanking a certain amount of joules over a longer period of time results in less damage being taken.

Also, there is absolutely no ******* way they reduce it over the course of 8 seconds, like they'd need to reduce it to go significantly below what you consider lethal (a 50 joule punch).

Fair. And yes, I do think that a 50 joules punch is lethal.

A 50 joule punch to a random part of the body is lethal? That's ludicrous.

And the skull in your calc need to withstand the 600+ Joules too. Search about how durable your skull is compared to the body, and one of the bones present in the skull is one of the most durable ones, only behind the femur obviously. The skull isn't the entire body, sure, but the skull being one of the most durable bones, and only needing about 70 joules to break it, already debunks the idea of a human generating 600 Joules.

In our reality, that distribution of energy is spread across the whole body, which makes it deal less damage to us.

Or your ******* calculation is wrong?

How. PE is dead simple. My answer is an exactly accurate application of it. The only way it could be wrong is if the PE formula is wrong, in which case this calc should be invalidated too, since it uses PE.

Then why don't you simply try to change the AP page? If humans can generate 600 Joules just by standing up, then 50 to 100 Joules need to be changed. Change that or simply stop arguing this.

I tried, but people argued "We have the human levels as they are because we rate those tiers based on how hard they can punch."

Sure, they survive because thy relax during the fall, position and a lot of stuff. Garfield didnt do that. He straight up hit the truck.

Relaxing doesn't change the total energy transfer, and the position change is to reduce velocity, but given that Garfield wouldn't have hit terminal velocity for cats in such a stance dropping from a height of 10 stories that point's moot.

mate, how do you have the balls to say that completely breaking steel during a fall "reduce some of the energy"? The energy would actually be much higher than what I calculated to simply break steel. No way this is easy to survive, you're simply crazy.

Hey, if you calculate it and find that it takes thousands of joules to break that much steel, I'll change my mind and prefer to use that calc. But from what I could see that steel was pretty bloody thin; I don't think it'd give a very good result.

not responding to this anymore, just contact a CGM and he'll say that 600 joules for simply standing up is completely bullshit and non sense.

Done, I'll go try and dig up where a CGM said 600 joules for standing up was legit, but not applicable because we do those tiers based on punches.

EDIT: Here, Spino acknowledged that PE and KE would put humans into 9-C, but that's fine because the difference at high tiers is negligible. Then I dropped the topic as that issue seemed to big for that thread about tiering large-size characters.
 
Last edited:
M3X said:
not responding to this anymore, just contact a CGM and he'll say that 600 joules for simply standing up is completely bullshit and non sense.
Click to expand...
eeeeeh not so sure about that
 
M3X said:
Or the fact that a human does not generate more than 600 Joules by standing up? That's literally not possible. You can't withstand more than 80 joules on your head for example, 50 joules is lethal, 68.5 joules is enough to break a skull. Stop with this standing up non sense, it's bullshit.
Click to expand...
ah yes, focused points of damage on specific parts of the body obviously means that the entire body can not withstand X force if said force is exerted onto the entire body instead of 1 smaller spot
 
Let's just try to get a calculation blog evaluated please.
 
Yeah that calc seems fair, I would like some more precision but that'd be really really tough to get with the quality of the video/way the scene's shot.
 
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