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But we aren't talking about the movie anymore. We are talking about the manga. He has another anti-feat.The director mentioned although he's omnipotent and omniscient, he's incomplete without it
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But we aren't talking about the movie anymore. We are talking about the manga. He has another anti-feat.The director mentioned although he's omnipotent and omniscient, he's incomplete without it
The plates can be found in:Oh Yes. I remember now. I was thinking of the other plates from the previous games.
But we aren't talking about the movie anymore. We are talking about the manga. He has another anti-feat.
- Pokémon Super Mystery Dungeon: Arceus appears when Dark Matter begins trying to take the Tree of Life to the sun, leading the other Pokémon in attempting to stop its ascent. He is able to telepathically reach the player thanks to Mewtwo and transports them to the Tree of Life's roots to confront Dark Matter. When Dark Matter regenerates itself and sends out a massive shockwave, Arceus and the other Legendary Pokémon gathered to stop the Tree of Life are immediately turned to stone. After Dark Matter is defeated, Arceus will remain at the top of Destiny Tower.
There's not even the existence of a single plate for PMD ArceusI also found another anti-feat, this time even from the games:
Well, tbf, Mystery Dungeon is one of the games that has the most contradiction to the overall cosmology, and so shouldn't scale to the main multiverse (games, anime, manga).I also found another anti-feat, this time even from the games:
Name one Anti Feat for Primary Canon Arceus.I also found another anti-feat, this time even from the games:
It's still canon. But that's definitely not Primary Canon Arceus. And events in MD has no effect on the world that the humans come from.Well, tbf, Mystery Dungeon is one of the games that has the most contradiction to the overall cosmology, and so shouldn't scale to the main multiverse (games, anime, manga).
But I don't remember if that got accepted, so shrugs.
But he can make them any time?There's not even the existence of a single plate for PMD Arceus
I seem to recall we don't scale Masters to main games.Uh...
It's easily part of the cosmology at least.
No, he did have his plates when he conducted the test. Absorbed them in an earlier chapter.Arceus nature has been proven time and time again that he poses a test for humanity.
The entire arc was Arceus testing humans. Mentioned at the end. All he did was to pose a test
And I'm not sure what you mean.
Plus, he did not have his plates then. So it's a nerf anyway. Which is why Arceus getting all of them is mentioned that his "full power has returned".
It actually wasI don't really think it was agreed for him to be truly omniscient
Nigh-Omniscient is for his Avatar while his True Form is Omniscient, right? Or am I missing something?
……わたしのぶんしんを あなたにたくします
......I leave my ぶんしん with you (fifth scan explains)
ねがわくば よりちかくで
ともにせかいをみせてあげてください
I wish to be closer to you
Please show the world with us.
Primary canon is the generational games. As in, the main series. RBY/GSC/RSE, etc. Secondary to them is the anime and manga. Then it would come spin-off games.It appears that we can mostly at least agree that the Intelligence Section of Arceus could do with some degree of sprucing up, as even Sniper admitted that Arceus's proper intelligence section isn't there, and rather it's the heart, correct?
As for this whole Primary vs Secondary debacle, I understand the idea that X canon takes precedence over Y canon, but what constitutes Primary Canon and what doesn't here? Evidently, it's not just Games as Primary, as Mystery Dungeon is being waived away as secondary. Can a List of Primary Canon sources be produced?
Arceus' intelligence is fine as shown by what I presented above. Sniper is just confused because they seem to forget they didn't edit the profile based off their draft, that's why it doesn't match up.It appears that we can mostly at least agree that the Intelligence Section of Arceus could do with some degree of sprucing up, as even Sniper admitted that Arceus's proper intelligence section isn't there, and rather it's the heart, correct?
Primary canon is the stuff Game Freak made, secondary canon is the stuff made by others under the guidance of The Pokémon Company and Game Freak staff.As for this whole Primary vs Secondary debacle, I understand the idea that X canon takes precedence over Y canon, but what constitutes Primary Canon and what doesn't here? Evidently, it's not just Games as Primary, as Mystery Dungeon is being waived away as secondary. Can a List of Primary Canon sources be produced?
Nothing was forgotten. I was the one who edited the profile, remember. It wasn't based on your draft.Yes. I forgot to include the intelligence rating for Arceus. What exists on his page right now is for the Heart
……わたしのぶんしんを あなたにたくします
......I leave my ぶんしん with you (fifth scan explains)
ねがわくば よりちかくで
ともにせかいをみせてあげてください
I wish to be closer to you
Please show the world with us.
Do you have any evidence to suggest against the conclusion I came to based off the evidence presented in Pokémon Legends: Arceus?I dunno man......
Good. Because there are 3 things you missedAlso a no, I'm afraid. Merely being the source of a power doesn't mean that the user gets access to any application whatsoever of it, the burden of proof is on the one making the outlandish claim, and it's far from the standard to grant creator deities all powers in their verse to them.
The plates are not even an energy source, as the Psychic plate literally has the essence of psychic energy. Not psychic energy itself, the essence of it. Of course you're free to show me rock energy and ground energy, or even fighting energy here.Another argument was also brought up based on the plates being what granted the Pokémon moves and abilities, but as DT also said, such statements don't even lean that way over the plates being merely an energy source, going back to the previous point of that not being usable evidence for this either
Good thing you said "by default" because there's context as to why Arceus has them.As DT said, no, creation entities are very common and they don't have every power in the setting by default, this sets a bad precedent as well.
Good. Because we're talking about giving Arceus powers. No one is giving him any physiology here. No one gave Arceus inorganic physiology because Cryo is made of ice. Is that a power?Probably the worst argument of the bunch, not only is this misusing scans (that are even noted to not be factual per-say in-universe) to make a false narrative as in reality there's nothing to correlate the example used (Regidrago, which is also dubious in-universe anyways) to the energy of the plates, as DT explains in the thread, there's hardly any precedent for a sufficiently strong Pokémon having every single move of its own type, straight up headcanon aside, especially as there's several attributes necessary beyond just a type to use a move or ability as DT also said.
No one is giving Arceus powers just because he's omnipotent.We also don't grant powers just because a character is called "omnipotent", as it's a blatant NLF for our purposes, which is why we generally restrict to stuff characters have been shown to do in the first place.
If I create something with the power to manipulate water, I can't do so? Why?Also sets a bad precedent as said by DT, we don't grant powers to a character as if they were inherent aspects of them by just summoning/creating something with a power already displayed in the setting, at best that'd need a separate section on the page, especially to avoid compositing as there's not sufficient evidence to combine every P&A in the series at the same time to Arceus.
Vague?----
Apparently even after @DontTalkDT explicitly declined this, this eventually got passed again in this CRT later on. The problem? I've noticed that DT hasn't commented in that thread at all, and that combined with how lower-ranking staff were clearly willing to accept this nonsense over Arceus on the past CRT leans me to believe this isn't accurate, and so here I am bringing up the topic again to see if we should either at best rewrite our site standards or just downgrade Arceus. After reading the OP, it also appears that it's just reiterating the same stuff as the above with just an extra statement saying that the plates have "every type's powers", which is still vague and with the above stuff still rendering questionable the premise, plus a few other things that fall apart without its other questionable premises passing.
Good. Because I'm tired of thisI'd also advocate for a Discussion Rule on the matter as it's clear this is controversial and keeps going back and forth, regardless of conclusion.
I just feel Arceus should have intelligence rating, going by his other appearance he doesn't seem to just be a puppetDo you have any evidence to suggest against the conclusion I came to based off the evidence presented in Pokémon Legends: Arceus?
I don’t really quite agree with this? For2 reasons at least, this argument isn’t quite so sound.No, Arceus isn't omniscient, not only he was unaware where the Jewel of Life was, and even required Ash to yell at him to remind him he already had it even after they time traveled to get it back to him,
there's also the matter that as DT said, the concept of knowledge and knowledge per-say just aren't inherently related and DT has even brought up a case to make a example of that, so not only this is an exaggeration to say the least, it's setting a bad precedent while ignoring beraucrat input.
The Cosmic Awareness thing I was sent about Arceus is also poor evidence, not only it's explicit on Arceus just watching over the present, the idea of Arceus having already seen all events from the start to the end not only is way more assumptive, it's also contradicted by the above.
Now I may or may not be too late, so I’ll just clarify that I’m more or less neutral to Arceus only getting Nigh-Omniscience. I just don’t like the specific arguments used against Omniscience, but if this is something most agree on, I’ll let the chips fall where they may.At best I'd advocate for a Nigh-Omniscient rating from stuff like this and the recontextualization on the CA not being that good, which in fact was a previous rating Arceus had.
Also a no, I'm afraid. Merely being the source of a power doesn't mean that the user gets access to any application whatsoever of it, the burden of proof is on the one making the outlandish claim, and it's far from the standard to grant creator deities all powers in their verse to them.
Another argument was also brought up based on the plates being what granted the Pokémon moves and abilities, but as DT also said, such statements don't even lean that way over the plates being merely an energy source, going back to the previous point of that not being usable evidence for this either.
If I could upvote this particular point more than once, I would.we literally have characters scaling to other's hax and such simply by having the same energy, like ki users in dragon ball, or sharing a physiology, and yet being the source of a power and literally it's creator doesn't? fire type pokemon use fire moves because they have fire energy, that's it, some may have unique moves but is all fire energy in the end
As DT said, no, creation entities are very common and they don't have every power in the setting by default, this sets a bad precedent as well.
also, sniper brought a new translation that said that it granted "every type's power" which leans more to the abilities themselves,
plus in the anime arceus used the splash plate explicitly to use a water move so yeah, more evidence on that
First, the Arceus movie barely hangs onto it's status of being canon by a string, we all know of the meteorite and the electric attacks and the silver water, but the fact of the fact that besides Arceus been affected by things far from it's cosmic levels of powers, even the plates have been pretty much retconned.
As not only does the general canon seem to be that multiple such plates lie about with how often they are found. Arceus is never in any urgeny of finding them and seems to more use them as a way to call to it (though it doesn't have to answer). But even in the anime itself, the plates that were used to create the Jewel of Life were also located in other places at the time the jewel was missing. That being the Draco and Spalsh Plates being a plot point in an anime episode that took place earlier than the movie should, as well as the power of the Splash Plate being used to seal Hoopa
See above please. Also, please look at what I bolded out. You actually just pretty much answered the question on how the plates could've appeared. The plates used to make the Prison Bottle appeared in Clash of Ages because Ghris specifically requested their use when first making the battle, as flashbacks showed.What was the Flame plate doing on Earth in Journeys if Arceus took them all with him to his own realm? It means whatever happened in JOL has no effect on the series itself
In addition to the other plates lying around long before Arceus decided to sacrifice them to make the JOL.
About Hoopa, I've watched the movie several times and I don't remember where they used Splash Plate. What happened is that Arceus gave humans the power to be able to call upon the 3 forces of Nature, and that's what they used to repair the bottle
And if Superman were getting blitzed by Taxi’s in that movie, I’d say the author’s intent is irrelevant.
Well, tbf, Mystery Dungeon is one of the games that has the most contradiction to the overall cosmology, and so shouldn't scale to the main multiverse (games, anime, manga).
But I don't remember if that got accepted, so shrugs.
Since when did all Pokemon become considered parts of Arceus? I see the Evidence for the Creation Trio, that makes sense, and the Evidence for Lake Trio, while I disagree with that making them still inherently contribute to Arceus as a existence, is still there. But how does Big Bird Yveltal apply to Arceus? What about our little Ralts we just hatched out of a Egg? How's she gonna be a Part of Arceus? Can we get scans here, because this is the first I've ever even remotely seen this argument.The plates, as far back as I remember, were only used as one of the arguments for it, not the sole argument. In fact, the larger reasoning for all powers being given, as I remember it, came from a thread TheRealCalHoward made a while ago when he was still here, for both Arceus and Mew, having all moves (a reminder btw that Mew being capable of using all moves, but not Arceus, sounds ridiculous). Mews argument was one thing, but for Arceus, it was agreed on him having the verses abilities not just because of the plates, but because all Pokémon were considered parts of Arceus like the Creation and Lake Trios are, and by extension, he should have their powers too like he does with the latters. I see no one in this discussion primarily talking about this, only about the Plates.
Since when did all Pokemon become considered parts of Arceus? I see the Evidence for the Creation Trio, that makes sense, and the Evidence for Lake Trio, while I disagree with that making them still inherently contribute to Arceus as a existence, is still there. But how does Big Bird Yveltal apply to Arceus? What about our little Ralts we just hatched out of a Egg? How's she gonna be a Part of Arceus? Can we get scans here, because this is the first I've ever even remotely seen this argument.
If you could produce the thread in question and/or the relevant evidence, it would very much be appreciated.Id have to try refinding the thread since with Cal not being here its not as easy to search it up, but IIRC, it came from the hiker quote on how all pokemon were once considered apsects of Arceus because they were all one with the Original Spirit.
I'll try finding the thread though where this was used to make a definitive statement.
If you could produce the thread in question and/or the relevant evidence, it would very much be appreciated.
Before creation, all existence was One. Then his Avatar was manifested from chaos and everything was born via emanations.Since when did all Pokemon become considered parts of Arceus? I see the Evidence for the Creation Trio, that makes sense, and the Evidence for Lake Trio, while I disagree with that making them still inherently contribute to Arceus as a existence, is still there. But how does Big Bird Yveltal apply to Arceus? What about our little Ralts we just hatched out of a Egg? How's she gonna be a Part of Arceus? Can we get scans here, because this is the first I've ever even remotely seen this argument.
Thank you for Providing this evidence. I will retract my opposition to Arceus's Power's for now, though I am admittedly still somewhat skeptical in general on certain things.Ah, nevermind, I just didn't spell Cal's username correctly in the search bar lol. It's this one.
Keep in mind this happened a while ago before Journeys and Legends Arceus gave a lot more new details and evidences of stuff.