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But we aren't talking about the movie anymore. We are talking about the manga. He has another anti-feat.
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Arceus Hax/Intelligence Downgrade: Compositing is bad
Sniper670
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The plates can be found in:
HeartGold/Soul Silver
Black and White/Black 2 and White 2
X and Y
S/M US/UM
OR/AS
Sw/Sh
And Legends Arceus
All at various locations implying there are many plates scattered across the Pokémon planet.
Sniper670
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The Original Setting here is when he's complete, not when he's not
Sniper670
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Well, tbf, Mystery Dungeon is one of the games that has the most contradiction to the overall cosmology, and so shouldn't scale to the main multiverse (games, anime, manga).
But I don't remember if that got accepted, so shrugs.
Sniper670
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Name one Anti Feat for Primary Canon Arceus.
Sniper670
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It's still canon. But that's definitely not Primary Canon Arceus. And events in MD has no effect on the world that the humans come from.
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To make my overall stance clear: I support the downgrade from omniscience to nigh-omniscience. Completely disagree with the removal of Arceus' powers.
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But he can make them any time?
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Know I don’t do Pokémon threads much anymore but I’ll make a comment or 2 here later.
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I seem to recall we don't scale Masters to main games.Uh...
It's easily part of the cosmology at least.
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No, he did have his plates when he conducted the test. Absorbed them in an earlier chapter.
And the point is that Arceus was explicitly disappointed with humanity, but after seeing the results of the test gained some faith in it again due to seeing Gold bond with his Pokémon. If he were omniscient, he would have known the exact nature of humanity to begin with and also have known that the very event that gave him faith would happen. So he would never have been disappointed.
I.e. an omniscient entity never changes its mind, because it always has the correct opinion to begin with, but Arceus does.
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Nigh-Omniscient is for his Avatar while his True Form is Omniscient, right? Or am I missing something?
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I don't really think it was agreed for him to be truly omniscient
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It actually was
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TheKingStrategist13
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It appears that we can mostly at least agree that the Intelligence Section of Arceus could do with some degree of sprucing up, as even Sniper admitted that Arceus's proper intelligence section isn't there, and rather it's the heart, correct?
As for this whole Primary vs Secondary debacle, I understand the idea that X canon takes precedence over Y canon, but what constitutes Primary Canon and what doesn't here? Evidently, it's not just Games as Primary, as Mystery Dungeon is being waived away as secondary. Can a List of Primary Canon sources be produced?
As for this whole Primary vs Secondary debacle, I understand the idea that X canon takes precedence over Y canon, but what constitutes Primary Canon and what doesn't here? Evidently, it's not just Games as Primary, as Mystery Dungeon is being waived away as secondary. Can a List of Primary Canon sources be produced?
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Primary canon is the generational games. As in, the main series. RBY/GSC/RSE, etc. Secondary to them is the anime and manga. Then it would come spin-off games.
Games that directly connect to the main games (via link-cable) like Colosseum, XD and PkmnGo (vis Let's Go) are considered primary. While games that can transfer pokémon to the main (like the Ranger games and Conquest) via Mystery Gift would be secondary at best.
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Arceus' intelligence is fine as shown by what I presented above. Sniper is just confused because they seem to forget they didn't edit the profile based off their draft, that's why it doesn't match up.
Primary canon is the stuff Game Freak made, secondary canon is the stuff made by others under the guidance of The Pokémon Company and Game Freak staff.
Sniper670
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Nothing was forgotten. I was the one who edited the profile, remember. It wasn't based on your draft.
True form Arceus and avatar Arceus share the same mind. The belief that wasn't the case was based off a lack of evidence for or against, but now that we have actually encountered the true form of Arceus and not just working off myths and legends, we have gained evidence to suggest the avatar is the type used the interact with lower realities and not a seperate entity.
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Do you have any evidence to suggest against the conclusion I came to based off the evidence presented in Pokémon Legends: Arceus?
Sniper670
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First and Foremost, you're arguing under the idea that the Avatar of the being who is everything and everyone and everyehere is simply incapable of being able to access the powers of other Pokémon that are a part of him through his avatar. It is simply impossible, even when it's mentioned he can do so. Okay
1. Each plate has the essence of a type
2. It's mentioned that the powers of the plates are shared amongst all Pokémon
3. Arceus spamming various moves corresponding to the plate he has is proof, as well as being able to use water manipulation that can go to the extend of defying the natural order of things, after accessing and using splash plate
The Draco plate has the essence of dragons, encompassing all dragon Pokemon. Heck, a stick in Pokémon has the powers of all water Pokémon
And this leads me back to the first statement I made. Insignificant things acquiring everything when God himself having context behind having them is being limited for absolutely no reason at all.
1. All moves
2. Powers used in anime, manga, games. Telekinesis, mind hax, status effect inducement, such. We're not giving Arceus Incorporeality because Cursola is non physical, but Arceus will still acquire curse manipulation because he's using the powers of Arceus, Ghost type powers
3. An erroneous error I saw before Iamunanimousinthat made the thread to start messing things up, were exactly the things DT mentioned and they're not there. We're giving Arceus powers. No one has given Arceus physiology stuff here.
Abilities, I don't mind abilities not being there, and it's not as if Arceus hasn't shown to use them without having them particular. Ie. Being able to inflict status effects regardless of Type which is literally a more expansive and broken version of Corrosion, because he can
Worst analogy ever, a scientist creating a supercomputer doesn't mean he can fulfill its capabilities.
Good, Arceus creating Pikachu to use lightning doesn't mean he can't do it on his own, he literally has the Zap Plate. He simply decided to create various Pokémon to test the player. That's all.
You'll only make sense if the move requires a specific physiology. I simply do not see the reason why Arceus won't be able to use, say, all psychic powers, because it doesn't need any specific physiology to use at all.
And don't tell me Unown exists. Unown depend on the perception and dreams of those who use it. With Unown, one can do anything and be anything within the context of Pokémon as long as they believe. They can't do much on their own.
Scientists were able to literally create one Pokémon with all verse powers at the time with the intelligence God himself gave them and God himself can't use them? Even with the context that he has these powers
I have all type's powers. Funny how they go on to ignore the first sentence as having the power of all things residing in it probably because it doesn't support their argument.
Well...... Give me another interpretation of a Pokémon having all Type's powers.
Good. Because there are 3 things you missed
1. Each plate has the essence of a type
2. It's mentioned that the powers of the plates are shared amongst all Pokémon
3. Arceus spamming various moves corresponding to the plate he has is proof, as well as being able to use water manipulation that can go to the extend of defying the natural order of things, after accessing and using splash plate
The plates are not even an energy source, as the Psychic plate literally has the essence of psychic energy. Not psychic energy itself, the essence of it. Of course you're free to show me rock energy and ground energy, or even fighting energy here.
The Draco plate has the essence of dragons, encompassing all dragon Pokemon. Heck, a stick in Pokémon has the powers of all water Pokémon
And this leads me back to the first statement I made. Insignificant things acquiring everything when God himself having context behind having them is being limited for absolutely no reason at all.
Good thing you said "by default" because there's context as to why Arceus has them.
Good. Because we're talking about giving Arceus powers. No one is giving him any physiology here. No one gave Arceus inorganic physiology because Cryo is made of ice. Is that a power?
1. All moves
2. Powers used in anime, manga, games. Telekinesis, mind hax, status effect inducement, such. We're not giving Arceus Incorporeality because Cursola is non physical, but Arceus will still acquire curse manipulation because he's using the powers of Arceus, Ghost type powers
3. An erroneous error I saw before Iamunanimousinthat made the thread to start messing things up, were exactly the things DT mentioned and they're not there. We're giving Arceus powers. No one has given Arceus physiology stuff here.
Abilities, I don't mind abilities not being there, and it's not as if Arceus hasn't shown to use them without having them particular. Ie. Being able to inflict status effects regardless of Type which is literally a more expansive and broken version of Corrosion, because he can
No one is giving Arceus powers just because he's omnipotent.
If I create something with the power to manipulate water, I can't do so? Why?
Worst analogy ever, a scientist creating a supercomputer doesn't mean he can fulfill its capabilities.
Good, Arceus creating Pikachu to use lightning doesn't mean he can't do it on his own, he literally has the Zap Plate. He simply decided to create various Pokémon to test the player. That's all.
You'll only make sense if the move requires a specific physiology. I simply do not see the reason why Arceus won't be able to use, say, all psychic powers, because it doesn't need any specific physiology to use at all.
And don't tell me Unown exists. Unown depend on the perception and dreams of those who use it. With Unown, one can do anything and be anything within the context of Pokémon as long as they believe. They can't do much on their own.
Scientists were able to literally create one Pokémon with all verse powers at the time with the intelligence God himself gave them and God himself can't use them? Even with the context that he has these powers
Vague?
I have all type's powers. Funny how they go on to ignore the first sentence as having the power of all things residing in it probably because it doesn't support their argument.
Well...... Give me another interpretation of a Pokémon having all Type's powers.
Good. Because I'm tired of this
Sniper670
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I just feel Arceus should have intelligence rating, going by his other appearance he doesn't seem to just be a puppet
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Okay. So I’m reading through this thread and wanted to share my thoughts on this matter, more or less on some things that I believe need comments.
To start with, using Jewel of Life in the first place. Know this was already said above, so I’d more or less be just repeating the earlier discussion, but Jewel of Life sets a very bad example of depicting Arceus for being Plot Induced Stupidity ridden and glossing over Arceus’s capabilities in order for this movie to make any kind of sense in storyline, which PIS generally covers in definition. I saw above that it was mentioned Arceus was purposely depowered in this movie (will comment about this more a little later) from where he normally is in order for the movie to be able to happen. If that’s the case, then why should we even take this “anti-feat” as anything more than a grain of salt? It would become apparent that this inconsistency is a minor outlier compared to Arceus’s usual portrayal, and thus shouldn’t really be considered viable evidence of a legitimate anti feat.
Besides that, another thing too that seems problematic with this is that Arceus was also not complete when Ash and the others came back from the past (since Arceus at the time point still lacked the plates making the jewel) and was unaffected by the changes in time. But this is only a minor thing to point out.
Looking at that example made to argue this, there’s a problem when comparing that to Arceus’s case here. Unless I’m mistaken (since I don’t know the series that example made comes from, so correct me if I’m wrong), Noah isn’t a character of abstraction. She simply only has the ability to create and manipulate concepts, like knowledge. It should probably go without saying, but if that is the case, it’s not really comparable with this kind of instance.
It’s one thing to say that a character can create a concept that doesn’t get applied to themselves without further backing for that. Literally being that concept or having it as an aspect of your existence/abstraction, is another thing. Arceus is supposed to be the latter, not the former.
Arceus doesn’t just simply create these concepts, those concepts are aspects of himself through the Creation and Lake Trios. In Uxies case, Knowledge is a part of him. While the general sentiment that this example was made for is something that’s agreeable on, if it becomes the point that a character is abstract through creating concepts that are a part of themselves, then it becomes that much more difficult to s disconnect the 2 rather than just simply seeing them as one and the same. Being knowledge means you should logistically have it.
I already made my comment on Jewel of Life above, which isn’t really that much different than what was likely already said, but on this particular point, I’m failing to see why this would mean only watching present time.
Especially since, after all, Dialga, who Arceus is > then, has witnessed events throughout time and certainly isn’t limited to just the present. Even in Jewel of Life. Dialga knew precisely what point in time to send Ash’s group back to, and the moment their work in the past finished up, he brought them back to the future.
This specific scan though may be poor evidence, but better ones than this, like my point on Dialga, should exist.
My bigger concern though, which I definitely disagree with, is the case on his abilities. Before I reply to specific replies in particular, I want to ask this. Why are the arguments about the plates the only main argument used for supporting Arceus having all powers? Because this definitely didn’t used to be the case back then.
The plates, as far back as I remember, were only used as one of the arguments for it, not the sole argument. In fact, the larger reasoning for all powers being given, as I remember it, came from a thread TheRealCalHoward made a while ago when he was still here, for both Arceus and Mew, having all moves (a reminder btw that Mew being capable of using all moves, but not Arceus, sounds ridiculous). Mews argument was one thing, but for Arceus, it was agreed on him having the verses abilities not just because of the plates, but because all Pokémon were considered parts of Arceus like the Creation and Lake Trios are, and by extension, he should have their powers too like he does with the latters. I see no one in this discussion primarily talking about this, only about the Plates.
But even with just going off of the plates, some stuff pointed out against this doesn’t make sense.
Dragon Ball is one of several cases here where everyone and their mother is given powers for sharing the same energy source, as well as those who get powers by sharing a physiology. Why is this somehow an exception and not Arceus? You should already have seen me raising the point on all Pokémon being apart of Arceus.
And on this note about a Pokemons move and a typing energy having correlation to each other, Hoopa and the Clash of Ages directly showcases this is in fact the case when Ashs friends needed to use 3 different attacks of those types (Water Pulse, Flamethrower & Sand Attack) to convert them into the 3 forces of nature to create the Prison Bottle for Hoopa.
This particular line of justification is obviously bad, but as I remember it, Arceus definitely wasn't accepted to have all powers based on this reasoning, so I don't understand why this was brought up. Better context exists.
This reminds me of something before actually. Wasn't there a translation of text provided some time ago about Legends specifying Arceus also had "infinite powers" as well?
This point also reminded me to also mention here too that in Journeys, Arceus's Flame Plate literally gives Heatran new abilities that it does not otherwise possess on it's own. An entirely new form to start with, as well as the ability to tear open the rift in Space-Time.
Just to comment on this, im 99% certain it's been long accepted here that every universe in the cosmology has their own copy of the plates while Arceus has his own set, so im not particularly seeing why this point on the plates would somehow be an issue that coincides with the movie?
But more importantly, Jewel of Life is the one and only piece of media Ash and his friends have met Arceus outside of Journeys (besides Clash of Ages, but that only applies to Ash, Dawn and Brock were not present in that movie, and even then, Ash remembers Arceus in Clash of Ages as well). Arceus never appears or even gets direcrly mentioned in the anime until Journeys, and when he does make his debut, Ash, Dawn and Brock remember him and reference having encountered him before. The only way this is possible to be the case is with Jewel of Life being canon to the anime.
And because Clash of Ages shows that people in Arche Valley, like Ghris, Barza and Mary, revere Arceus, are able to communicate with him and receive power from him in return, it's evidence that Arceus is willing to answer human prayers to answer their needs. Ghris needed something to restrain Hoopa's powers from going out of control, so because it's canon that Ghris is one of the people that can communicate with Arceus, it's very likely that Arceus personally bestowed to him the plates that were used for the creation of the Prison Bottle.
Just to comment on this bit, because I saw quite some back and forth on it, im getting the feeling people here don't quite know how Author Intent works, because this isn't how we apply and don't apply it.
Disregarding Author Intent, or things like "Death of the Author", are only done when their word on their particular media does not follow or match up with what is presented in their particular works, so what actually gets applied takes precedence over their words against that. So if I stated something like Character X is FTL and can nuke planets, but the actual media displays Character X being outsped by supersonic speeds and incapable of destroying things on a scale much below that of planets, the media showing he's not as strong as I claimed takes more priority as it contradicts my statement.
Their word, however, becomes validated and acceptable when their media coincides with what's claimed and supports it.
The writer of Jewel of Life contextualizing why Arceus as nerfed in the movie, with the purpose of him being limited to therefore make the movie's storyline possible in the first place, doesn't fall under DoTA. The writer isn't giving a claim about Arceus or his capabilities that the film says otherwise about to contradict their explanation. Nothing contradicts the writer's word on that happening, if anything, the opposite is what's going on since the movie displays exactly what the author is bringing context for.
Not to mention, real quick, didn't Arceus in Mystery Dungeon immediately become aware of an entire timeline being erased from existence w/ Primal Dialga, Celebi and Grovyle and then stopped it instantly?
Just wanted to point this out.
Anyway, those are my comments. To clarify, im more or less neutral on making the intelligence nigh omniscient, I just mainly didn't agree with the particular arguments against it being used.
But I am definitely disagreeing with removing any of Arceus's powers.
I don’t really quite agree with this? For2 reasons at least, this argument isn’t quite so sound.
To start with, using Jewel of Life in the first place. Know this was already said above, so I’d more or less be just repeating the earlier discussion, but Jewel of Life sets a very bad example of depicting Arceus for being Plot Induced Stupidity ridden and glossing over Arceus’s capabilities in order for this movie to make any kind of sense in storyline, which PIS generally covers in definition. I saw above that it was mentioned Arceus was purposely depowered in this movie (will comment about this more a little later) from where he normally is in order for the movie to be able to happen. If that’s the case, then why should we even take this “anti-feat” as anything more than a grain of salt? It would become apparent that this inconsistency is a minor outlier compared to Arceus’s usual portrayal, and thus shouldn’t really be considered viable evidence of a legitimate anti feat.
Besides that, another thing too that seems problematic with this is that Arceus was also not complete when Ash and the others came back from the past (since Arceus at the time point still lacked the plates making the jewel) and was unaffected by the changes in time. But this is only a minor thing to point out.
Looking at that example made to argue this, there’s a problem when comparing that to Arceus’s case here. Unless I’m mistaken (since I don’t know the series that example made comes from, so correct me if I’m wrong), Noah isn’t a character of abstraction. She simply only has the ability to create and manipulate concepts, like knowledge. It should probably go without saying, but if that is the case, it’s not really comparable with this kind of instance.
It’s one thing to say that a character can create a concept that doesn’t get applied to themselves without further backing for that. Literally being that concept or having it as an aspect of your existence/abstraction, is another thing. Arceus is supposed to be the latter, not the former.
Arceus doesn’t just simply create these concepts, those concepts are aspects of himself through the Creation and Lake Trios. In Uxies case, Knowledge is a part of him. While the general sentiment that this example was made for is something that’s agreeable on, if it becomes the point that a character is abstract through creating concepts that are a part of themselves, then it becomes that much more difficult to s disconnect the 2 rather than just simply seeing them as one and the same. Being knowledge means you should logistically have it.
I already made my comment on Jewel of Life above, which isn’t really that much different than what was likely already said, but on this particular point, I’m failing to see why this would mean only watching present time.
Especially since, after all, Dialga, who Arceus is > then, has witnessed events throughout time and certainly isn’t limited to just the present. Even in Jewel of Life. Dialga knew precisely what point in time to send Ash’s group back to, and the moment their work in the past finished up, he brought them back to the future.
This specific scan though may be poor evidence, but better ones than this, like my point on Dialga, should exist.
Now I may or may not be too late, so I’ll just clarify that I’m more or less neutral to Arceus only getting Nigh-Omniscience. I just don’t like the specific arguments used against Omniscience, but if this is something most agree on, I’ll let the chips fall where they may.
My bigger concern though, which I definitely disagree with, is the case on his abilities. Before I reply to specific replies in particular, I want to ask this. Why are the arguments about the plates the only main argument used for supporting Arceus having all powers? Because this definitely didn’t used to be the case back then.
The plates, as far back as I remember, were only used as one of the arguments for it, not the sole argument. In fact, the larger reasoning for all powers being given, as I remember it, came from a thread TheRealCalHoward made a while ago when he was still here, for both Arceus and Mew, having all moves (a reminder btw that Mew being capable of using all moves, but not Arceus, sounds ridiculous). Mews argument was one thing, but for Arceus, it was agreed on him having the verses abilities not just because of the plates, but because all Pokémon were considered parts of Arceus like the Creation and Lake Trios are, and by extension, he should have their powers too like he does with the latters. I see no one in this discussion primarily talking about this, only about the Plates.
But even with just going off of the plates, some stuff pointed out against this doesn’t make sense.
If I could upvote this particular point more than once, I would.
Dragon Ball is one of several cases here where everyone and their mother is given powers for sharing the same energy source, as well as those who get powers by sharing a physiology. Why is this somehow an exception and not Arceus? You should already have seen me raising the point on all Pokémon being apart of Arceus.
And on this note about a Pokemons move and a typing energy having correlation to each other, Hoopa and the Clash of Ages directly showcases this is in fact the case when Ashs friends needed to use 3 different attacks of those types (Water Pulse, Flamethrower & Sand Attack) to convert them into the 3 forces of nature to create the Prison Bottle for Hoopa.
This particular line of justification is obviously bad, but as I remember it, Arceus definitely wasn't accepted to have all powers based on this reasoning, so I don't understand why this was brought up. Better context exists.
This reminds me of something before actually. Wasn't there a translation of text provided some time ago about Legends specifying Arceus also had "infinite powers" as well?
This point also reminded me to also mention here too that in Journeys, Arceus's Flame Plate literally gives Heatran new abilities that it does not otherwise possess on it's own. An entirely new form to start with, as well as the ability to tear open the rift in Space-Time.
Just to comment on this, im 99% certain it's been long accepted here that every universe in the cosmology has their own copy of the plates while Arceus has his own set, so im not particularly seeing why this point on the plates would somehow be an issue that coincides with the movie?
But more importantly, Jewel of Life is the one and only piece of media Ash and his friends have met Arceus outside of Journeys (besides Clash of Ages, but that only applies to Ash, Dawn and Brock were not present in that movie, and even then, Ash remembers Arceus in Clash of Ages as well). Arceus never appears or even gets direcrly mentioned in the anime until Journeys, and when he does make his debut, Ash, Dawn and Brock remember him and reference having encountered him before. The only way this is possible to be the case is with Jewel of Life being canon to the anime.
See above please. Also, please look at what I bolded out. You actually just pretty much answered the question on how the plates could've appeared. The plates used to make the Prison Bottle appeared in Clash of Ages because Ghris specifically requested their use when first making the battle, as flashbacks showed.
And because Clash of Ages shows that people in Arche Valley, like Ghris, Barza and Mary, revere Arceus, are able to communicate with him and receive power from him in return, it's evidence that Arceus is willing to answer human prayers to answer their needs. Ghris needed something to restrain Hoopa's powers from going out of control, so because it's canon that Ghris is one of the people that can communicate with Arceus, it's very likely that Arceus personally bestowed to him the plates that were used for the creation of the Prison Bottle.
Just to comment on this bit, because I saw quite some back and forth on it, im getting the feeling people here don't quite know how Author Intent works, because this isn't how we apply and don't apply it.
Disregarding Author Intent, or things like "Death of the Author", are only done when their word on their particular media does not follow or match up with what is presented in their particular works, so what actually gets applied takes precedence over their words against that. So if I stated something like Character X is FTL and can nuke planets, but the actual media displays Character X being outsped by supersonic speeds and incapable of destroying things on a scale much below that of planets, the media showing he's not as strong as I claimed takes more priority as it contradicts my statement.
Their word, however, becomes validated and acceptable when their media coincides with what's claimed and supports it.
The writer of Jewel of Life contextualizing why Arceus as nerfed in the movie, with the purpose of him being limited to therefore make the movie's storyline possible in the first place, doesn't fall under DoTA. The writer isn't giving a claim about Arceus or his capabilities that the film says otherwise about to contradict their explanation. Nothing contradicts the writer's word on that happening, if anything, the opposite is what's going on since the movie displays exactly what the author is bringing context for.
Not to mention, real quick, didn't Arceus in Mystery Dungeon immediately become aware of an entire timeline being erased from existence w/ Primal Dialga, Celebi and Grovyle and then stopped it instantly?
Just wanted to point this out.
Anyway, those are my comments. To clarify, im more or less neutral on making the intelligence nigh omniscient, I just mainly didn't agree with the particular arguments against it being used.
But I am definitely disagreeing with removing any of Arceus's powers.
TheKingStrategist13
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Since when did all Pokemon become considered parts of Arceus? I see the Evidence for the Creation Trio, that makes sense, and the Evidence for Lake Trio, while I disagree with that making them still inherently contribute to Arceus as a existence, is still there. But how does Big Bird Yveltal apply to Arceus? What about our little Ralts we just hatched out of a Egg? How's she gonna be a Part of Arceus? Can we get scans here, because this is the first I've ever even remotely seen this argument.
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Id have to try refinding the thread since with Cal not being here its not as easy to search it up, but IIRC, it came from the hiker quote on how all pokemon were once considered apsects of Arceus because they were all one with the Original Spirit.
I'll try finding the thread though where this was used to make a definitive statement.
TheKingStrategist13
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If you could produce the thread in question and/or the relevant evidence, it would very much be appreciated.
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Ah, nevermind, I just didn't spell Cal's username correctly in the search bar lol. It's this one.
Keep in mind this happened a while ago before Journeys and Legends Arceus gave a lot more new details and evidences of stuff.
Sniper670
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Before creation, all existence was One. Then his Avatar was manifested from chaos and everything was born via emanations.
Within the Heart time and space was mixed, and people and Pokémon were the same existence. The period of time before Arceus was born, which was at the Heart of Chaos. They shared the same Heart, the same Awareness from which they were born. With Arceus being a manifestation of the Heart, and the world expanding as the Heart enriches. Ie. All existence is part of the Heart
The Legend Plate has the Essence of all Creation. Giving Arceus the power of every type in existence. This is talking about the Avatar of the Heart
Legend Plate - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia
TheKingStrategist13
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Thank you for Providing this evidence. I will retract my opposition to Arceus's Power's for now, though I am admittedly still somewhat skeptical in general on certain things.
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