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DBS Manga Speed Scaling (BETTER!!)

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GodlyCharmander said:
Human materials are capable of making better stuff, and we have the most common components in the universe.

The Pride Troopers are universal heroes in a higher rated universe, saying they're comparable to Freeza's tech is honestly just plausible.
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Human technology is insane though; like building androids that are easily stronger than the strongest creatures in the Universe (at that point in the series).
 
Damage3245 said:
Human technology is insane though; like building androids that are easily stronger than the strongest creatures in the Universe (at that point in the series).
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That's my point, Earth isn't implied to have any sort of rare component or anything. Our technology was built from very basic stuff.

Saying the Universal Heroes from an universe with higher ratings (meaning it either has more quality mortals, or more planets with life in general) don't have ships comparable or faster than Freeza's minion ships is just weird. Again, Jiren saying he's faster than a spaceship should scale to that at least.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
That's my point, Earth isn't implied to have any sort of rare component or anything. Our technology was built from very basic stuff.

Saying the Universal Heroes from an universe with higher ratings (meaning it either has more quality mortals, or more planets with life in general) don't have ships comparable or faster than Freeza's minion ships is just weird. Again, Jiren saying he's faster than a spaceship should scale to that at least.
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I'm not saying they definitely don't. I'm just saying that as a rating goes, it is more of a "Likely" to me.
 
Well, the Pride Troopers are the protectors of Universe 11, so them having ships capable of traversing the universe quickly seems like a prerequisite to me, as they presumably have to respond to threats all over the universe.
I also find Charmander's argument about Universe 11 being a higher ranked universe than 7 to make sense.

I guess I'm fine with a "Likely" rating, but it seems like a bit of an unnecessary compromise to me.
 
Okay. I think that we can skip including "likely" then.
 
Well, this is still up. And DDM, Ant and UchihaSlayer, alongside a good quantity of members and supporters seem to agree with solid ratings.
Damage and AKM seems to agree with most of the scaling, saving two specific values, which they think should be possibly or likely.

Agreement seems to be towards the solid rating. I suppose it's fine to apply the changes to the profiles and the verse page, no?
 
IIRC, AKM also didn't really want to downgrade flight speed too much either, but it's been a while since he commented on this thread. As for me, I personally don't mind if we treated the long distance travel speeds separate from all those other speed ratings, but I already don't need to stressfully voice any other type of speed being any lower than the current ratings. But I'm aware this thread is only focused on the long term flight speed revisions.
 
Okay. I suppose that we should wait a bit then.
 
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DarkDragonMedeus said:
IIRC, AKM also didn't really want to downgrade flight speed too much either, but it's been a while since he commented on this thread. As for me, I personally don't mind if we treated the long distance travel speeds separate from all those other speed ratings, but I already don't need to stressfully voice any other type of speed being any lower than the current ratings. But I'm aware this thread is only focused on the long term flight speed revisions.
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This is not the flight speed thread, no.
 
Oh shoot!
I’ve been waiting for someone to calc Gas’ travel feat from a region of space that’s out of range from Goku’s IT to the planet Goku and Gas were originally fighting on

Has that been done? What’s the value!
 
Yeah, I might have gotten this mixed up with another thread. I saw Manga and speed in the same OP and thought this was the flight speed revision.
 
Okay, so I'll try and explain why I think that Jiren "feat" qualifies as a "Likely" for scaling the value of the calc for Freiza's ship.

This is the explanation of what a Likely rating means:

Should be used to list a statistic for a character with some basis, but inconclusive due to the justification being vague or non-definitive. The probability of the justification in question for being reliable should be favourable.
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Now, we can agree that there is at least some basis.

We have the statement that Jiren flies faster than a spaceship.

But that's about it. All context outside of that is a matter of inference and speculation. Arguments like, "Jiren's Universe should be at least equal in tech to Universe 7", or "Their spaceships should be faster since they're the Protectors of Universe 11" or whatever else there is in favor of it, it at its core just non-definitive speculation.

We don't have a calc for the spaceships from Jiren's Universe. Or a statement. Or anything solid. What we have are calcs for other spaceships which Jiren has no direct scaling to.

Hence why for trying to scale Jiren to these calcs, it is just more fitting of being a "Likely" rating than a flat-out solid rating.
 
Damage3245 said:
Okay, so I'll try and explain why I think that Jiren "feat" qualifies as a "Likely" for scaling the value of the calc for Freiza's ship.

This is the explanation of what a Likely rating means:



Now, we can agree that there is at least some basis.

We have the statement that Jiren flies faster than a spaceship.

But that's about it. All context outside of that is a matter of inference and speculation. Arguments like, "Jiren's Universe should be at least equal in tech to Universe 7", or "Their spaceships should be faster since they're the Protectors of Universe 11" or whatever else there is in favor of it, it at its core just non-definitive speculation.

We don't have a calc for the spaceships from Jiren's Universe. Or a statement. Or anything solid. What we have are calcs for other spaceships which Jiren has no direct scaling to.

Hence why for trying to scale Jiren to these calcs, it is just more fitting of being a "Likely" rating than a flat-out solid rating.
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We are capable of using interpretation, or using the context of the feat to make a rating solid. Obviously, we are not robots that follow a programmed rule to a T, we are capable of using context and interpretation. If something is so likely to be true that doubting it is pretty much unreasonable, it should still be a solid rating. Especially when we have some context in favor of it, and absolutely nothing against it.

That is the case for Freeza's ships. Universe 11 is a more advanced Universe than U7. It has "better mortals", and Freeza's technology is dwarfed by Human's who are not notorius at all. Saying a technology that is portrayed as unimpressive in the greater scale have any chance of being better than the technology needed to travel through the entire universe without any reason is unreasonable. There isn't a reason for anyone to say that U11 High-End Ships might not be faster than U7 Low-End Ships, it isn't even in the realm of possibility as of now.

I understand where this point comes from, but I still disagree with "likely". Although you might convince other Staff, may I call them here?
 
@KingTempest @Antvasima @AKM sama @DarkDragonMedeus @UchihaSlayer96 What do you think of my comment here?

I don't think this is matter of being a robot programmed to follow a rule, but these guidelines do exist and I believe that Jiren's "feat" here certainly qualifies for this qualifier.

The additional arguments brought up like "U11 has better mortals than U7" is just additional speculation. Also the additional unstated context being assumed here like "high end ships" and "low end ships" which have never come up before in the series itself.
 
Damage3245 said:
I don't think this is matter of being a robot programmed to follow a rule.
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Oh, I didn't mean this in a literal sense. Just that, while the rule is there, obviously we can use context and what-not to justify something that should be obvious. (Such as things heavily implied by the narrative but are not flat-out said to us)
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Oh, I didn't mean this in a literal sense. Just that, while the rule is there, obviously we can use context and what-not to justify something that should be obvious. (Such as things heavily implied by the narrative but are not flat-out said to us)
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The implication is the reason why the statement is being considered remotely related to the other calc in the first place. But for it to be a solid rating for Jiren (based off of this specific calc), there needs to be a better connection from what I can tell.
 
I am uncertain if we should use "likely" or not. My apologies.

It is probably best to wait for further staff input here.
 
Damage3245 said:
@KingTempest @Antvasima @AKM sama @DarkDragonMedeus @UchihaSlayer96 What do you think of my comment here?

I don't think this is matter of being a robot programmed to follow a rule, but these guidelines do exist and I believe that Jiren's "feat" here certainly qualifies for this qualifier.

The additional arguments brought up like "U11 has better mortals than U7" is just additional speculation. Also the additional unstated context being assumed here like "high end ships" and "low end ships" which have never come up before in the series itself.
Click to expand...
I suppose this is fine.
 
Sigh. Well, I suppose we're going with "Likely" then. Do we have anything else we need to discuss? I wish to proceed with the revision as to give solid ratings for the characters
 
Isn't the RoF movie also canon to the dbs manga? It directly references it in the manga

Wouldn't that mean that the manga DBZ Xters would scale to the BoG speed calcs at least? As RoF Xters were much stronger than BoG Xters
 
Thank you to everybody who helped out here.
 
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