DBS Manga: The Speed Scaling

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

INTRODUCTION​

Welcome. This is a revision thread looking to change the current outdated speed scaling blog to the one I did. This new blog has all the chapters as references supporting the scaling, as well as explanations why each characters scale to what value. It also updates to the currently accepted Super Saiyan Blue's multiplier, which is a 10x increase over Super Saiyan God, as opposed to the anime's 50x increase. I will now introduce you to the main changes in scaling.

---

​

MAIN CHANGES​

• The top speed is greatly reduced: The peak speed non-GoD characters can reach is reduced from 16.9 quadrillion times faster than light to the far more modest 67.5 trillion times faster than light. This is a result of the much more modest Blue form multiplier and some scaling adjustments.
• Vegeta no longer scales to Frieza's ship: This only complicates scaling for no reason, scaling Base Vegeta above characters like Jiren, for example.
• Moro Arc Piccolo is no longer scaled to U6 Arc Piccolo: Uh, Piccolo never needed this, he already scales to Super Saiyan Goku's casual speed for keeping up with Frost.
• Broly's scaling is greatly reduced: The manga no longer takes the movie scaling into account, although the events that have no reason to change will still be referenced, Broly's Base form does not need Ikari to scale to God forms.

That's about it.

---

CONCLUSION​

The old blog uses outdated multipliers and incorrect scaling. Newer blog is more organized and explains every scaling well.
The old blog wanks the speed quite a bit. Newer blog is more modest, and takes low ends into account.
Newer blog is also consistent with the accepted feats.


STAFF VOTING
Agree: @Damage3245, @LordGriffin1000, @DarkDragonMedeus
Neutral:
Disagree:

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I agree! You are cooking as always!

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

agree

 

[TheGreatBanana]

Why is ssb a 10x speed increase instead of 50x?

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Why is ssb a 10x speed increase instead of 50x?

"Low Multiverse level, far higher with God Forms (Stronger than before after 3 years of training, 10% of Super Saiyan Blue alone is roughly comparable to the full power of the Super Saiyan God transformation, contending with Hit in SSG who previously defeat SSB Vegeta)"

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Oh, the imgur image got nuked.

 

[TheGreatBanana]

Ah i see. thanks. Then i agree with the thread.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Oh, the imgur image for nuked.

Wanted to say this!

 

[Damage3245]

Looks fine, for now.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Why is SSB only 10x SSG?

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

The "possibly" for Vegito is just wrong, because he did in actuality reach Beerus' level of power, as stated in a guidebook. There shouldn't be any possibly's about that. It should just be Vegito ~ Beerus

 

[Damage3245]

Why is SSB only 10x SSG?

"Low Multiverse level, far higher with God Forms (Stronger than before after 3 years of training, 10% of Super Saiyan Blue alone is roughly comparable to the full power of the Super Saiyan God transformation, contending with Hit in SSG who previously defeat SSB Vegeta)"

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

The "possibly" for Vegito is just wrong, because he did in actuality reach Beerus' level of power, as stated in a guidebook. There shouldn't be any possibly's about that. It should just be Vegito ~ Beerus

This business of surpassing Beerus is pure hyperbole, I don't think we should use these statements without at least seeing Beerus being defeated in combat.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

This business of surpassing Beerus is pure hyperbole, I don't think we should use these statements without at least seeing Beerus being defeated in combat.

That's not what I cited. Also can you give evidence it's hyperbolic? the statements were very much serious

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

MAIN CHANGES​

Vegeta no longer scales to Frieza's ship: This only complicates scaling for no reason, scaling Base Vegeta above characters like Jiren, for example.

Can´t we backscale Jiren to Vegeta´s feat?

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Can´t we backscale Jiren to Vegeta´s feat?

Jiren is scaling to the ship's speed, not only because is just about 3x the actual scaling, but because he is stated to be faster than Universe's 11 Pride Trooper's ship

 

[KingNanaya]

I agree. looks good

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

That's not what I cited. Also can you give evidence it's hyperbolic? the statements were very much serious

Show Beerus being defeated?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

10% of Super Saiyan Blue alone is roughly comparable to the full power of the Super Saiyan God transformation

Less than 10%. Super Saiyan Blue, at full strength, could very well be 100x more powerful than Super Saiyan God.
Like, Goku in Super Saiyan was going blow-for-blow with Hit.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Less than 10%. Super Saiyan Blue, at full strength, could very well be 100x more powerful than Super Saiyan God.
Like, Goku in Super Saiyan was going blow-for-blow with Hit.

Eh, 10% is better. Also fits as the lowest end.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Eh, 10% is better.

It's literally not correct, though???

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Less than 10%. Super Saiyan Blue, at full strength, could very well be 100x more powerful than Super Saiyan God.
Like, Goku in Super Saiyan was going blow-for-blow with Hit.

Base Goku scratched Hit's cheeks, that's Toyotaro being a terrible writer and not knowing the gap between forms, let's not go over that please.

If it was 100x more powerful than Super Saiyan God, they would've said 1%, less than 5%, or any value close to this. Beerus says "Vegeta couldn't even unleash 1/10th of Blue's original power", so we should use what the manga stated.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

It's literally not correct, though???

If SS God Goku surpasses SS Blue Vegeta around 10% power, it is correct. Again, it is your burden of proof to claim it's significantly lower than 10%, and explain why wouldn't they use more specific terms if it was so significantly below the value originally stated.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Again, it is your burden of proof to claim it's significantly lower than 10%

We can, because the lore around SSB is it being SSJ on top of ssg, and super saiyan is consistently noted as being a 50x amp

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

We can, because the lore around SSB is it being SSJ on top of ssg, and super saiyan is consistently noted as being a 50x amp

In the Manga, this gap is not even close to being that big. You're using a multiplier via association vs a stated multiplier, that's terrible.

The lore is that a Saiyan while using god ki goes Super Saiyan, and that is Super Saiyan Blue.

 

[Saqphire]

Agree but;

Show Beerus being defeated?

Not his burden, you can’t dismiss statements as hyperboles without substantiating why it is one and Beerus not being defeated yet is not substantiating the hyperbole argument at all because it doesn’t contradict the statement whatsoever

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Agree but;

Not his burden at all lol, you can’t dismiss statements as hyperboles without substantiating why it is one and Beerus not being defeated yet is not substantiating the hyperbole argument at all because it doesn’t contradict the statement whatsoever

Coming from a Kaioshin you don't have to wait long

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Coming from a Kaioshin you don't have to wait long

Why is he speaking hyperbolically tho? If anything a good and actual refute would be those statements have no credibility, but I pointed out how an omniscient narrator considered them right, so you’d have to prove the omniscient narrator should take less precedence than conservative headcanon.

It is still your burden of proof, when a statement like “oh he might be stronger than Beerus” isn’t even a form of hyperbole. Examples would include “oh he’s got godlike power” or “infinite power” not “he’s rivaling a character that actually exists”

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

he did in actuality reach Beerus' level of power, as stated in a guidebook.

I need that, unless it's V-Jump, then idc

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I need that, unless it's V-Jump, then idc

They must have been talking about the manga, but the manga showed that Goku is still below Beerus and even has superior instincts that are more powerful than Vegito, anyway this is just hyperbole that we should forget

 

[Nullflowerblush]

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

To be faaaaair... In the manga, Kaioshin's line is way more implied than actually stated, as this was a mistranslation. And V-Jump is a unreliable shitshow, so I can understand.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

as this was a mistranslation

ベジットのパワーは…もしかして…すでにビルス様を…
"Vegito's power... could it be... that he's already... surpassed Lord Beerus?"

The line is practically identical—and, corroborated by an official source (i.e., the ******* magazine that serializes the manga).
What exactly was mistranslated? Your ability to refute it? Yadda yadda, bip bip bip.

The East Supreme Kai asserts that Vegito Blue is possibly stronger than Beerus, and V-Jump confirms that he rivals Beerus. This is about as open and shut as a manga could possibly get; y'know, without actually opening and shutting the manga—I don't have a copy on-hand, I've never owned one.

 

[AguilaR202]

What’s the problem with Vegito being >/= Beerus anyway, it’s not like anyone scales to either because Jiren/ UI being comparable is debunked the instant Beerus thought it wouldn’t be a big deal to take on Planet Moro who was = MUI Goku at the time.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

They must have been talking about the manga, but the manga showed that Goku is still below Beerus and even has superior instincts that are more powerful than Vegito, anyway this is just hyperbole that we should forget

Prove that he scales above Vegito. Prove that it's hyperbole. Legitimate question, like, do you know how hyperbole works?

The line is practically identical—and, corroborated by an official source (i.e., the ******* magazine that serializes the manga).

I can get the scan RQ

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

The line is practically identical

Nope.
The term surpass (超える or Koeru) is NOT present in the original line. The "surpassing" part is assumed by the translation, as it was an implication, not an actual statement.

"ベジットのパワーは…" (Bejitto no pawā wa), meaning "Vegito's power..."
"もしかして..." (moshikashite), meaning "perhaps..."
"すでに" (sude ni) - "already"
"ビルス様" (Birusu-sama) - "Lord Beerus" (the character's name with an honorific)
"を" (wo) - direct object marker.

This is the Kaioshin babbling about Vegito's power and Beerus coming to his mind. Far from a direct confirmation.

corroborated by an official source (i.e., the ******* magazine that serializes the manga).

I really couldn't care less if the magazine serializes the manga or not. V-Jump has been inconsistent with itself, unreliable and straight up incorrect in the past, it's ENTIRELY fair we take their words with a grain of salt. Furthermore Beerus' power seems to be re-adjusted everytime the story needs it, at least in my perspective.

What exactly was mistranslated? Your ability to refute it? Yadda yadda, bip bip bip.

Love when people act like all high and mighty when they're actually incorrect. What do you have to say to yourself now?
Try to be humble about a language you don't speak next time. Vegito will stay "likely higher", and that's a wrap.

 

[AwkguyDB]

Imma be honest I disagree with using the events in the manga instead of the Broly movie. The manga quite literally contradicts itself when it comes to the Broly movie

Aside from Toyotaro literally saying that the movie is an extension of the Manga

The events shown in the manga contradict
In the Moro Arc Goku and Vegeta fought Broly as Super Saiyan Blues without damage and a team

But in the Super Hero Arc the flashback plays closely to the movie with Goku fighting Broly being in Base/Ikari while the background is also set in a lava filled environment

simply put the Broly scenes are simply there to just give context to key points in the movie

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

I'm NGL, I saw what you were talking about RN while searching it up, but regardless the context is he's comparing Vegito to Beerus. You may not understand this as presumably a non-japanese speaking westerner, but the omniscient databook confirms this.

The context of making such a statement is holding Vegito to be compared with the G.O.D and it's just objectively right

Love when people act like brats when they're objectively wrong. What do you have to say to yourself now?
Try to be humble about a language you don't speak next time.

Take a chill pill dawg, what.

I really couldn't care less if the magazine serializes the manga or not. V-Jump has been inconsistent with itself, unreliable and straight up incorrect in the past, it's ENTIRELY fair we take their words with a grain of salt. Furthermore Beerus' power seems to be re-adjusted everytime the story needs it, at least in my perspective.

This is basically both:
a) headcanon
b) not an argument

It'd be a genetic fallacy, first of all, and secondly Beerus has never had his power changed. You're projecting the DBS anime onto the manga.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

The logic for SSJB being only 10x is dumb. SSJB without CSSJB after a bit you only get less than 10% of the initial power. SSJG Goku surpassed SSJB Vegeta at this state, but that just means Base Goku’s power is above that of Base Vegeta’s instead of SSJB being only 10x above SSJG. Which doesn’t make logical sense if you think about it SSJB is SSJG + SSJ.

 

[AwkguyDB]

The logic for SSJB being only 10x is dumb. SSJB without CSSJB after a bit you only get less than 10% of the initial power. SSJG Goku surpassed SSJB Vegeta at this state, but that just means Base Goku’s power is above that of Base Vegeta’s instead of SSJB being only 10x above SSJG. Which doesn’t make logical sense if you think about it SSJB is SSJG + SSJ.

also this