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Dante tries to defeat the supreme god of Pokemon verse
- Thread starter Mister6ame6
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Arceus doesn't use that in character
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Anyways, this is a stomp match. Wtf were you thinking?
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Dante can affect him, Demon's souls in DMC are AE1 via CM1, he can interact with Arceus's true form.
Also Demons's souls are 9 dimensional in DMC, so Arceus need to have the apropriety range to mind hax him.
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Does Arceus have 1C range/AoE for that??
Souls in dmc are 9D and mind and memory is component of soul.
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Dante doesn't even have 2-B range on his profile.
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Not really, Dante have the range and the NP to interact with Arceus, so this is not a stomp macth.
Dante start with either Devil Sword Dante or his pistols here, dunno about Arceus thought.
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Meteors
Yeah buddy, he can interact with someone so he totally stands a chance. His attacks aren't gonna do anything to Arceus as he will tank or block them, and some meteor danmaku will one shot him
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Said 1C range only extends to hax, its like smurf hax but without potency. Such things aren't noted on profiles... since "smurf" is a pure battleboarding term.
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Dante's CM1 is above baseline here, so he can hurt Arceus unless he CM1 is also above baseline, not to mention that Dante's have high-godlly regeneration, so is meteors is not going to kill Dante unless he can deal with high-godlly regen, and Dante also have high-godlly regen neg and resistance to it above baseline which Arceus don't resist, so he have wincons here.
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Huh I see..
Well so just a matter of editing. Not necessary since Physiology page for DMC makes everything already clear. Souls are 9D and everyone and their mother can manipulate them and everything associated with said soul.
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Since when did Dante use conceptual manipulation in character? And arceus can just create something to trap dante in. His conceptual manipulation is 2-B to 2-A, so that's far better than being above baseline 2-C, and he can survive conceptual attacks from giratina who also has CM type 1 on that level
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Reading physiology page and profile will answer all questions.
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Its because of how demon's souls works in DMC, reads the demon physiology page the explanetion are there. Dante resist BFR and Sealing, so unless Arceus's ones is above baseline, it won't work. CM1 is not affected by range, unless it was smurf thing, otherwise, Dante would have better CM1 here, since his range is on 9D level.
That's looks like only one layer above baseline, which Dante can easely deal it, and also you forgot that Dante have High-Godly Regeneration along with Negation, which Arceus don't seems to have a couter to that.
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Oh yeah, Dante is on the hunt of broken characters.
Idk about Arceus but Dante got some 9D range (how that translates to other forms of range is unknown to me but should be higher than 4D which is all of tier 2) so his big ass is not out of reach for Dante now.
Arceus can't kill since Mid-Godly to High-Godly on a concept beyond his reach is present and laughing at him, mind hax is unlikely since it also makes up part of the soul which is 9D and Dante has some busted IR to deal with any kind of danmaku
That's AP, not potency. That's like saying a 3A stomps a 7B because "their hax is 3A" which is dumb and pretty much rejected by everyone in this wiki.
To make a quick explanation of DMC Concept stuff: names are the concepts of demons, basic principles that predate the demon world, demon world predates the human world. Said concepts are only a part of the demon soul which is more important than souls.
In short souls > names and the scaling chain for both goes quite high.
Idk about Arceus but Dante got some 9D range (how that translates to other forms of range is unknown to me but should be higher than 4D which is all of tier 2) so his big ass is not out of reach for Dante now.
Arceus can't kill since Mid-Godly to High-Godly on a concept beyond his reach is present and laughing at him, mind hax is unlikely since it also makes up part of the soul which is 9D and Dante has some busted IR to deal with any kind of danmaku
That's AP, not potency. That's like saying a 3A stomps a 7B because "their hax is 3A" which is dumb and pretty much rejected by everyone in this wiki.
To make a quick explanation of DMC Concept stuff: names are the concepts of demons, basic principles that predate the demon world, demon world predates the human world. Said concepts are only a part of the demon soul which is more important than souls.
In short souls > names and the scaling chain for both goes quite high.
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Higher-Dimensional Existence
A given object or entity is referred to as being higher-dimensional when they exist as part of a system with a number of coordinates axes greater than our own, or in layman's terms, if they possess more than three dimensions. Speaking in simple terms, a "dimension" can be considered an axis of...
vsbattles.fandom.com
This page explains basics.
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It is 1C range
Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
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Tbh, I don't see how souls being 9D makes Dante able to interact with Arceus at all.
Because I don't see any mention of 1-C range on his profile, and souls being 9D is just HDE, but y'all need to prove that said 9D souls are actually bigger than lower dimensional things, rather than just "lol is 9D so is bigger" (this guy is a pretty good example of what I mean).
Also Arceus can already null CM1 with 2 layers on 4D potency on it, and that's kinda of passive via plates.
Because I don't see any mention of 1-C range on his profile, and souls being 9D is just HDE, but y'all need to prove that said 9D souls are actually bigger than lower dimensional things, rather than just "lol is 9D so is bigger" (this guy is a pretty good example of what I mean).
Also Arceus can already null CM1 with 2 layers on 4D potency on it, and that's kinda of passive via plates.
Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
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Go to the demon physiology page it explains there and has scans
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A quick explanation is in order then but before I start this is the physiology page, here are the scans but somewhat scattered so if/when we make the bestiary it will be better. First the concept:
Names:
A Demon's name is something special, more important than other verses. We are told that To them a name is "truth"... more than those forms they take, it is said that the name of a demon is closer to its true substance, like heirs to a family they model themselves after the meaning of the name but this is only from the research Arkham has gathered, in reality the name and its significance is much more complex and deeper than that.
In reality the power of a name is much more, from the moment demons come into existence the names are the most sacred thing to them, they not only represent power but also the very concept of their own existence, basic principles that predate the creation of even the creation of the demon world itself.
A Demon's soul:
As you probably saw in the scan above, the name which is the most sacred thing for a demon as it is their very concept is nothing but a part of their souls. It manifests itself as part of the soul that forms them, and their dark hearts.
But there is more to the souls.
Souls are "objects" that hold many mysteries that neither Humans or Demons understand but that every soul has. The soul as we know now thanks to Peak of Combat is a basic nine-dimensional form, generally speaking, it originates from and returns to a higher dimension beyond the Eightfold Path. But that's not all as it contains the mind and memory, but also contains all the information of the body and its ancestors since ancient times.
This goes in line with what Arkham told us, if you recall, as the name (which demons mold themselves after) is nothing but just a part of the souls demons have.
In short a soul in Devil May Cry contains every aspect of existence for Demons, from minds to information and even their concept.
Also, the scaling for DMC soul stuff (and concept by default) goes like this: fodder demons < demon world < mid demons < Top demons < Demon Kings < Dante
there are sub levels within the mid, top and demon kings as pluto's is weaker than Mundus, void mundus is stronger than the others, malphas can yeet them out and she isn't a queen, sparda being able to take names and Dante pulling a godly move and casually giving Mundus his name, etc, etc.
Names:
A Demon's name is something special, more important than other verses. We are told that To them a name is "truth"... more than those forms they take, it is said that the name of a demon is closer to its true substance, like heirs to a family they model themselves after the meaning of the name but this is only from the research Arkham has gathered, in reality the name and its significance is much more complex and deeper than that.
In reality the power of a name is much more, from the moment demons come into existence the names are the most sacred thing to them, they not only represent power but also the very concept of their own existence, basic principles that predate the creation of even the creation of the demon world itself.
A Demon's soul:
As you probably saw in the scan above, the name which is the most sacred thing for a demon as it is their very concept is nothing but a part of their souls. It manifests itself as part of the soul that forms them, and their dark hearts.
But there is more to the souls.
Souls are "objects" that hold many mysteries that neither Humans or Demons understand but that every soul has. The soul as we know now thanks to Peak of Combat is a basic nine-dimensional form, generally speaking, it originates from and returns to a higher dimension beyond the Eightfold Path. But that's not all as it contains the mind and memory, but also contains all the information of the body and its ancestors since ancient times.
This goes in line with what Arkham told us, if you recall, as the name (which demons mold themselves after) is nothing but just a part of the souls demons have.
In short a soul in Devil May Cry contains every aspect of existence for Demons, from minds to information and even their concept.
Something, something. We tried to make the higher dimension that creates souls (Chaos) tier 1 but it was rejected, at best we have this weird kind of 9D range.
Also, the scaling for DMC soul stuff (and concept by default) goes like this: fodder demons < demon world < mid demons < Top demons < Demon Kings < Dante
there are sub levels within the mid, top and demon kings as pluto's is weaker than Mundus, void mundus is stronger than the others, malphas can yeet them out and she isn't a queen, sparda being able to take names and Dante pulling a godly move and casually giving Mundus his name, etc, etc.
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So, from what I can gather, names are just a deeper level of existence for Demons. CM1 requires the manipulation of Platonic Concepts, and names show no signs of behaving as such. I can't see why they get treated that way.
Also souls. There's a lot to unpack. Souls containing the mind and information of a being is... Irrelevant? That means that DMC peoples' minds and souls are inextricable. The part about them containing memories of ancestors is just that. Context seems to suggest something like genetic memory, but more spiritual. How is that relevant? And the big thing, them being nine dimensional. Souls come from the ninth dimension, and return to it when they die. If they were nine dimensional, that wouldn't be happening because the ninth dimension would not be considered a higher dimension for them.
Also souls. There's a lot to unpack. Souls containing the mind and information of a being is... Irrelevant? That means that DMC peoples' minds and souls are inextricable. The part about them containing memories of ancestors is just that. Context seems to suggest something like genetic memory, but more spiritual. How is that relevant? And the big thing, them being nine dimensional. Souls come from the ninth dimension, and return to it when they die. If they were nine dimensional, that wouldn't be happening because the ninth dimension would not be considered a higher dimension for them.
Oliver_de_jesus
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not exactly, the concepts do not have to be described as platonic but rather independent of reality.
"1. Independent Universal Concepts: Such concepts are completely independent from the part of reality they govern. These concepts shape all of reality within their area of influence and at whatever level that area exists in, and everything in it "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the concept of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of their area of influence, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept"-Concept Manipulation page
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Wrong. The text specifically states they are the very concept of their existence, not just some deeper random bs. CM1 as tha page says are concepts independent of reality, they don't need to specifically be something that was used long ago like "universal concepts".
All in all your problem comes from lack of understanding. Here is the thread that changed stuff, go read it.
Souls are made of everything I listed above, it isn't that they are inextricable, the soul is the sum of all that shit together. The ancestors stuff and info part is what the manga was talking about, Demons are beings without a real form and can only be classified as living or truths, they mold themselves according to their names.
Mate if you aren't gonna read then I won't bother explaining. Souls are a 9D object, that is crystal clear in the text. They originate and return to a higher dimension beyond the eighfold path. The higher dimension bs isn't in relation to soul but in relation to whatever the eighfold path is
Of course, if you think this isn't enough for those outdated standards you may be thinking off... you are free to make a thread to change either the concept standards or the concept stuff in DMC. Also:
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