Chaos made me higher dimensional meme, DMC edition.

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

______________________________________
This is thread tagged teamed by @Tony_di_bugalu and myself @GilverTheProtoAngelo , along with support from various friends from DMC team.
Credits to them for original thread, especially @Sevil Natas .

This is the continuation of this staff thread. Which itself was a continuation of this normal thread posted in November of last year.
Making this 3RD FREAKING THREAD!!! Aaaaahhhhhhhhh!!!!!
Yeah this thread has dragged on for 3+ months now. While every ability and hax proposed in 1st thread was accepted it had another colossal proposal inside, which was 1C AP upgrade.
1C Demon World was proposed in the 1st thread, which was approved by various green mods before posting, later after posting in the thread they reaffirmed their approval. But due to internal discussion among the DMC team we backtracked from our position of Demon World being 2nd version/form or same dimensionality as Primordial Chaos, which disconnected Demon World from possibility of 1C upgrade, since it was the Primordial Chaos which formed the basis of 1C upgrade...it would be the only aspect which would get upgraded since reasons which were greenlighted by Mods still applied to Chaos. With 1C Demon World being postponed for later thread in future, 1C AP is completely out of question. Only thing 1C Primordial Chaos would affect is smurfness of haxxes.
But overtime many people forgot entire premise of 1C Chaos and even mods forgot why they accepted to it at start, with later attempts to remind and explain everyone about it failing outstandingly for the most idiotic and unfair reasons to the severe detriment to Tony's and mine mental peace.
This 3rd thread is an attempt to get this accepted, hopefully now atleast things will go smoothly.

Let me start by giving an outline of history concerning the cosmology of Devil May Cry. Some basic background information based on information already accepted, before I even start making the proposal in formal.

______________________________________

1) Primordial Chaos.​

Primordial Chaos is the existence which predates the creation of Demon World also known as Darkness or World of Darkness.
This is the birthing place/origination of creatures which are Demon Souls, this phenomenon also precedes creation of Demon World. This is also supported by fact that demons names are part of their souls,and names predate creation of Demon World.
Best way to describe Primordial Chaos is by saying its the empty void before creation and contains the succeeding creation inside itself, which is a pretty common creation story trope in fiction.
Example Chaos from God of War.

2) Infinite Darkness.​

Also known popularly as Demon World/Heaven/Hell/World of Darkness etc.
This is the infamous realm known to majority of people in fandom. Its here where many demon souls gained their physical forms based on their names which are a part of their souls.
This will be the main realm of demon's kingdom from this point on. This is also the place inside which Human World was born. Basically one day for no apparent reason Demon World becomes pregnant with Human World, but there were severe medical complications. Chaos(not to be confused with the Primordial Chaos in our case) increased beyond anyone could handle, threatening to consume everything. To prevent this our resident Obstetrician Pluto performed a scissor surgery with his Abyssal Spear on womb of Demon World and extricated Human World out, inadvertently saving everyone.
(Pregnancy thing is a joke btw to lighten things up, don't want people to get mad)

3)Ray of Light.​

Also known popularly as Human Universe /Mortal Realm / World of Light. Our standard universal space-time continuum. Where humans reside and also main cast of heroes live. As mentioned above Human World is a ray of light which was birthed by and inside World of Darkness before being separated by Pluto.
_____________________________________

And that my friends is the basic rundown of timeline.

And now on to the proposal itself.
Chaos does qualify for 1C.

Souls are "objects" that hold many mysteries that neither Humans or Demons understand but that every soul has. The soul as we know now thanks to Peak of Combat is a basic nine-dimensional form, generally speaking, it originates from and returns to a higher dimension beyond the Eightfold Path. But that's not all as it contains the mind and memory, but also contains all the information of the body and its ancestors since ancient times.

Basically since Chaos is spawner of Souls, this the dimension which is mentioned above in scan.

Tiering System FAQ

A: Whether higher-dimensional entities qualify for such high tiers or not depends on several different factors, which may take root both in and out-of-verse. To explain this situation, we must first clarify what exactly being higher-dimensional entails. In a way, yes, though not how most would...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Q: When are higher dimensions valid, then?​

A: One of the more straightforward ways to qualify for Tier 2 and up through higher dimensions is by affecting whole higher-dimensional universes which can embed the whole of lower-dimensional ones within themselves. For example: A cosmology where the entirety of our 3-dimensional universe is in fact a subset of a much greater 4-dimensional space, or generalizations of this same scenario to higher numbers of dimensions; i.e A cosmology where the four-dimensional spacetime continuum is just the infinitesimal surface of a 5-dimensional object, and etc.

However, vaguer cases where a universe is merely stated to be higher-dimensional while existing in a scaling vacuum with no previously established relationship of superiority towards lower-dimensional ones (or no evidence to infer such a relationship from) should be analysed more carefully. In such cases where information as to their exact nature and scale is scarce, it is preferable that the higher dimensions in question be fully-sized in order to qualify.

Furthermore, higher-dimensional entities can also qualify for higher tiers when the verse which they are from explicitly defines them as being infinitely above lower-dimensional ones in power and/or existential status. An example of this being verses such as Umineko no Naku Koro ni. However, lower-dimensional beings being stated to be "flat" in comparision to higher-dimensional aliens is not necessarily grounds for assuming the latter has infinitely more power (For reasons outlined in the answer above), and thus, such scenarios must also be analyzed case-by-case.

We qualify for all of the above with flying colours.
1) We have relationship between DW and HW as explained by manga scans. HW is merely a line/ray compared to DW. In the FAQ portion I highlighted above, when something is "flat" compared to HD stuff that can be enough for Tier 1 in some cases.
What we have is FAR MORE IMPRESSIVE...
HW is line compared to DW. This is not just a simple 2D vs 3D comparison....this is outright 1D vs 3D...
Its verbatim stated that HW is a Ray/Line born within the endless/infinite Darkness that is the DW. And HW here is low2C. Darkness infinitely trivializes a full spacetime continuum.

2) HW is 4D spacetime continuum originally created by DW and was embedded in it, i.e lower dimensions being embedded in higher dimensions. Similarly, DW will be embedded inside Chaos. Which is also qualifying factor in the highlighted FAQ portion above.

3) If above 2 reasons were not enough we have DW being infinite/endless compared to HW which is low2C. Another qualifying factor considered acceptable by FAQ portion highlighted above.

Further proof of DW making HW look insignificant is this where the Demon world and the demons almost covered everything were not for Sparda's actions with the world of light being powerless to the world of darkness. A realm of similar proportions to the demon world (and this one is only a pocket dimension created to fight Dante) is already considered as "beyond human comprehension". The demon world can casually **** up the human world with just a very smol part of it being forced into the merging. It's a primordial existence.

And this is just Demon World. We aren't asking for 1C DW, we are asking for 1C Chaos which is verbatim called Higher Dimensional of 9D nature. Chaos isn't an external realm divorced from DW, its a state of existence which predates creation of DW&HW. So basically its something that contains DW&HW inside it whenever they were born inside i, i.e DW&HW are embedded inside it. Quite a common trope in fictional creation stories. Example God of War Chaos/Yggdrasil from Greece/Norse myth. Only in case of DMC we have stated dimensional differences between container and contained.

Chaos is the primordial existence, it predates the existence of both demons and the demon world itself. It creates demon souls (a basic 9 dimensional form object) and is called a higher dimension compared to the demon world.

The demon world is the primordial darkness, it created the human world. The human world is insignificant compared to it, often referred as a line or ray of light in contrast to the endless/infinite darkness that is the demon world

So in short we qualify healthily as required by FAQ protion above to make Chaos 1C.
______________________________________

Since no characters have physical feat involving Chaos besides Souls being born there, and all souls whether belonging to human or demon are 1C HDE for having same dimensionality as Chaos.
This will only make them smurf haxxes. Not AP

NOTE :- This upgrade doesn't require changing anything in profile since smurfness is purely Vs Debating/ Battleboarding thing.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Obviously people from original thread who had permission to speak in that thread can speak here...since this is just continuation thread for everyone's convenience.
Mainly @Tony_di_bugalu @Sevil Natas @EFÍTÉ @Lightning_XXI @KLOL506

 

[EFÍTÉ]

Since no characters have physical feat involving Chaos besides Souls being born there, and all souls whether belonging to human or demon are 1C HDE for having same dimensionality as Chaos.

Question
Vergil literally uses his soul as sword and doppelgenger, would that count as AP?
Doppelgenger can also tank attacks from dante.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Well I know this Ikki uses similar soul based sword for physical strikes, which is just considered soul manipulation. Same for Doppelganger...so I guess it would be similar.

 

[Lormac_CC]

I know i am not supposed to comment here but just want to ask, Does holding a 4D space-time automatically make 6th, 7th.. dimensions higher infinites, because there are verses using string theory that holds 4D universes, those higher dimensions don't exactly become higher infinites except proven.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

I'll comment on the arguments later

One thing I wanna ask now is: why you guys don't make a profile for Chaos ? Similar to VHD's Akashic Records, one that explains its tier and scaling would make everything easier to understand in future VS Threads and similar situations were the Tier 1 needs explanation

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I guess we can make a paragraph in Cosmology blog. Since Chaos is a location, not necessarily a character.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I know i am not supposed to comment here but just want to ask, Does holding a 4D space-time automatically make 6th, 7th.. dimensions higher infinites, because there are verses using string theory that holds 4D universes, those higher dimensions don't exactly become higher infinites except proven.

No, you need more proof that that. Or DBS would already be low1C via Hypertimeline.

You need proof of infinite difference in size/power. Which as you can see above we already provided.

 

[EFÍTÉ]

Well I know this Ikki uses similar soul based sword for physical strikes, which is just considered soul manipulation. Same for Doppelganger...so I guess it would be similar.

Hmm i see
i know there's scan saying you can Chaos stone to make dante's weapons have the power of the original chaos
would that count as 1C?

 

[Lightning_XXI]

I guess we can make a paragraph in Cosmology blog. Since Chaos is a location, not necessarily a character.

Didn't we had threads to build the Locations pages ?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Hmm i see
i know there's scan saying you can Chaos stone to make dante's weapons have the power of the original chaos
would that count as 1C?

Can you post statement, I don't exactly remember the wording.
But before all of that we need to get 1C Chaos accepted by mods or this discussion is useless. So lets save it for later.

Didn't we had threads to build the Locations pages ?

We will have to check. Last I remember it got shot down at end even tho it had positve reception in beginning. I believe some calc member made the thread tho I don't remember their name.
Beisdes DW is the one with desperate need of location profile.

 

[Lormac_CC]

You need proof of infinite difference in size/power

Yeah between each of those dimenisons, what you dropped is using 4D to generalize the entire 9D structure

The FAQ kind of make this clear

For example: A cosmology where the entirety of our 3-dimensional universe is in fact a subset of a much greater 4-dimensional space, or generalizations of this same scenario to higher numbers of dimensions; i.e A cosmology where the four-dimensional spacetime continuum is just the infinitesimal surface of a 5-dimensional object, and etc.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Yeah between each of those dimenisons, what you dropped is using 4D to generalize the entire 9D structure

The FAQ kind of make this clear

For example: A cosmology where the entirety of our 3-dimensional universe is in fact a subset of a much greater 4-dimensional space, or generalizations of this same scenario to higher numbers of dimensions; i.e A cosmology where the four-dimensional spacetime continuum is just the infinitesimal surface of a 5-dimensional object, and etc.

You need to read the op again. There's an intermediary realm between Human Realm and Chaos. Which is Demon World.
HW<<<DW<<<<<<<Chaos.

The relationship is already indicative of infinite superiority between HW and DW. Similar pattern would follow between Chaos and DW.
Besides infinite is still infinite, no matter how many times divided. So relation holds, especially with explictly mentioned 9D statement.

Besides the part you quoted is just a simple demonstration of embedded realms. Fate has similar reasons for 1C.
Its has 3D, 4D multiverse, 6D avalon, and 8D moon cell. With only one step showing R-F transcendence, and others are assumed to follow same pattern.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Also take permission before commenting again.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Okay, so first I wanna say Gilver and Tony made a really good thread, congrats guys, and I'm deeply sorry fow the previous ones, if you guys felt that people didn't take the proposal seriously, that's also my fault by not trying to make the difference, not trying to truly help, I'm here to correct that and I'll be sincere with every point

As you know, I'm not the best when it comes to Tier 1 stuff, and my problems here are in a few examples showed, because they sometimes ignore the context or, in worst cases, take things way too literall, I'll get into details:

1) We have relationship between DW and HW as explained by manga scans. HW is merely a line/ray compared to DW. In the FAQ portion I highlighted above, when something is "flat" compared to HD stuff that can be enough for Tier 1 in some cases.
What we have is FAR MORE IMPRESSIVE...
HW is line compared to DW. This is not just a simple 2D vs 3D comparison....this is outright 1D vs 3D...
Its verbatim stated that HW is a Ray/Line born within the endless/infinite Darkness that is the DW. And HW here is low2C. Darkness infinitely trivializes a full spacetime continuum.

This one is the biggest push for me

I do agree that the Human World being called a Ray of Light while the Demon World is a Endless Darkness do show their difference, but that's about it, a "ray" doesn't mean we're talking about a geometrically 1D structure all times, maybe when you use its geometric meaning/purposes, but outside of that, it won't get you far, a ray of light, heat or other stuff has another value

a narrow beam of light, heat, etc. travelling in a straight line from its place of origin:
A ray of sunshine shone through a gap in the clouds.
Light rays bend as they pass from air to water.

Or, it can be about this:

a small amount of a feeling that makes you feel happier or more full of hope:
There's still a ray of hope that the missing child will be found alive.

Now, how can we know if they are talking about a ray in geometric view or not ? That's up to interpretation, but they never touch in the subject besides calling it a ray of light inside an infinite darkness, they may be talking about their size difference, but not only it may not talk about dimensional differences (Unlikely for DMC as a whole until POC came out), but it can also be talking about the 2nd meaning which also means to be something weak, small, frail, just like the manga shows how the HW is when compared to the DW. Said notion isn't about dimensions or 1D vs 3D stuff

Further proof of DW making HW look insignificant is this where the Demon world and the demons almost covered everything were not for Sparda's actions with the world of light being powerless to the world of darkness.

There was a Demon War, we all know how broken they are and how defenseless the humans are against them, how, for some reason, the manga stating that the HW being powerless againt them is a sign of being dimensionally lower or something ? The page itself talks about this, so I'm completely against this argument aswell

The other parts are okay for me, and honestly they should work fine for the Chaos upgrade without the points I talked about, so while I do have problems with two points of the CRT, I do agree with the overall proposal. Now just a question, what haxes are going to be affected by this ?

 

[DontTalkDT]

Souls are "objects" that hold many mysteries that neither Humans or Demons understand but that every soul has. The soul as we know now thanks to Peak of Combat is a basic nine-dimensional form, generally speaking, it originates from and returns to a higher dimension beyond the Eightfold Path. But that's not all as it contains the mind and memory, but also contains all the information of the body and its ancestors since ancient times.

If this scan is supposed to say something about 9D souls you linked the wrong scan.

 

[Antvasima]

@CrimsonStarFallen @LordGriffin1000 @DarkDragonMedeus @Theglassman12 @KLOL506 @DarkGrath

What do you think about this?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

If this scan is supposed to say something about 9D souls you linked the wrong scan.

I'll change it. Sorry.

@CrimsonStarFallen @LordGriffin1000 @DarkDragonMedeus @Theglassman12 @KLOL506 @DarkGrath

What do you think about this?

Tag Ultima and Elizhaa as well, they had participated and even accepted in first thread, lets see what they say now.

This one is the biggest push for me

I'll respond shortly after editing few images in OP.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

If this scan is supposed to say something about 9D souls you linked the wrong scan.

I edited the OP as well to correct mistake.

If any of you guys find a mistake please tell me, since I patched this thread during dinner and now its midnight so I may have made some mistakes in links etc.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

This one is the biggest push for me

I do agree that the Human World being called a Ray of Light while the Demon World is a Endless Darkness do show their difference, but that's about it, a "ray" doesn't mean we're talking about a geometrically 1D structure all times, maybe when you use its geometric meaning/purposes, but outside of that, it won't get you far, a ray of light, heat or other stuff has another value


Or, it can be about this:


Now, how can we know if they are talking about a ray in geometric view or not ? That's up to interpretation, but they never touch in the subject besides calling it a ray of light inside an infinite darkness, they may be talking about their size difference, but not only it may not talk about dimensional differences (Unlikely for DMC as a whole until POC came out), but it can also be talking about the 2nd meaning which also means to be something weak, small, frail, just like the manga shows how the HW is when compared to the DW. Said notion isn't about dimensions or 1D vs 3D stuff

Well the manga is quite literal in its meaning those chapters. We know that. Darkness and Light isn't symbolic here. They literally are Darkness and Light as some sort of supernatural "" substances""(not as darkness or light in real life mind you) for lack of better term. So that disqualify the 2nd interpretation "ray of hope" type stuff..since its metaphoric and deal with abstract stuff. "Light is good and Darkness is bad" isn't the premise here.

For 1st interpretation, here Ray of Light isn't literal Ray of Light like in Contemporary Physics nor is it a heat ray. Darkness isn't absence of light/ shadow either here. Besides the manga is giving us straightforward description of Creation story.
Realm of Light was born inside the Realm of Darkness. With it giving us direct size comparison between both.
If Human World which is a low2C structure is called Ray of Light against the Infinite Darkness that is Demon World, then it quite clearly complies with FAQ thread.
Infact that was why Ultima, Elizhaa and Crimson originally accepted the 1C upgrade.

Rest of stuff ask Tony, it was his idea :v

 

[LordGriffin1000]

@CrimsonStarFallen @LordGriffin1000 @DarkDragonMedeus @Theglassman12 @KLOL506 @DarkGrath

What do you think about this?

I'm busy today and tomorrow but I'll look over this as much as I can and give my thoughts when able. Not really knowledgeable on this part of Devil May Cry but I'll still give it a shot.

 

[Antvasima]

Tag Ultima and Elizhaa as well, they had participated and even accepted in first thread, lets see what they say now.

Okay.

@Ultima_Reality @Elizhaa

What do you think about this?

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Well the manga is quite literal in its meaning those chapters. We know that. Darkness and Light isn't symbolic here. They literally are Darkness and Light as some sort of supernatural "" substances""(not as darkness or light in real life mind you) for lack of better term. So that disqualify the 2nd interpretation "ray of hope" type stuff..since its metaphoric and deal with abstract stuff. "Light is good and Darkness is bad" isn't the premise here.

For 1st interpretation, here Ray of Light isn't literal Ray of Light like in Contemporary Physics nor is it a heat ray. Darkness isn't absence of light/ shadow either here. Besides the manga is giving us straightforward description of Creation story.
Realm of Light was born inside the Realm of Darkness. With it giving us direct size comparison between both.
If Human World which is a low2C structure is called Ray of Light against the Infinite Darkness that is Demon World, then it quite clearly complies with FAQ thread.
Infact that was why Ultima, Elizhaa and Crimson originally accepted the 1C upgrade.

Rest of stuff ask Tony, it was his idea :v

Still, I don't see enough material in this specific statement to consider that it's talking about Ray in a geometric view + showcasing a difference in dimensions, such upgrade is insane and the manga doesn't give anything close to enough proof to consider that. You first say it is literall and therefore can't be the 2nd interpretation, then, you say it isn't literall cuz it's not about actual Light and Darkness, it may not be, mind you, but why that makes this "ray" something related to the geometry ? The meanings obviously used light or heat as examples of ray, but it can be a ray of something else (like the "substances" u said), that doesn't make it 1D. So many questions and problems with this quote

 

[Sir_Ovens]

1) We have relationship between DW and HW as explained by manga scans. HW is merely a line/ray compared to DW. In the FAQ portion I highlighted above, when something is "flat" compared to HD stuff that can be enough for Tier 1 in some cases.
What we have is FAR MORE IMPRESSIVE...
HW is line compared to DW. This is not just a simple 2D vs 3D comparison....this is outright 1D vs 3D...
Its verbatim stated that HW is a Ray/Line born within the endless/infinite Darkness that is the DW. And HW here is low2C. Darkness infinitely trivializes a full spacetime continuum.

Saying something is a line with no context is not a good way to prove 1-C. Light tends to be, well, a ray, which is what I think they were going for. You're extrapolating something that isn't there.

2) HW is 4D spacetime continuum originally created by DW and was embedded in it, i.e lower dimensions being embedded in higher dimensions. Similarly, DW will be embedded inside Chaos. Which is also qualifying factor in the highlighted FAQ portion above.

A universe within a universe isn't out of the ordinary. And the outer universe does not have to be higher dimensional to contain it either.

Further proof of DW making HW look insignificant is this where the Demon world and the demons almost covered everything were not for Sparda's actions with the world of light being powerless to the world of darkness. A realm of similar proportions to the demon world (and this one is only a pocket dimension created to fight Dante) is already considered as "beyond human comprehension". The demon world can casually **** up the human world with just a very smol part of it being forced into the merging. It's a primordial existence.

This is a 3-A feat at best? We don't automatically assume something of universal size is Low 2-C, let alone 1-C.

 

[KLOL506]

@CrimsonStarFallen @LordGriffin1000 @DarkDragonMedeus @Theglassman12 @KLOL506 @DarkGrath

What do you think about this?

I am mostly fine with the premise of 1-C Chaos. I myself was at the forefront of discussing it extensively with Sevil, G, Tony and Ultima and I personally don't see any issues with Chaos in DMC being 1-C and surpassing everything else in the DMC verse.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I only remember agreeing that Souls had like 9-D levels of temporal existence. But I never was sure about the 9 dimensions all being uncountable infinite in scale or that anyone had AP on that level.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I only remember agreeing that Souls had like 9-D levels of temporal existence. But I never was sure about the 9 dimensions all being uncountable infinite in scale or that anyone had AP on that level.

Not AP, it's weird because they're asking for hax on a 9D level that doesn't affect tier.

 

[Antvasima]

Sir Ovens seems to make some good points above.

 

[Bobsican]

I'm sure Ultima agreed on the past thread over it just being HDE, but not smurf hax, so in a battle it'd just mean someone would require interdimensional range to affect DMC souls, as he mentioned here

 

[Sevil Natas]

I'm sure Ultima agreed on the past thread over it just being HDE, but not smurf hax, so in a battle it'd just mean someone would require interdimensional range to affect DMC souls, as he mentioned here

while yes affecting the souls would be interdimensional. they more so require feats of affecting HD constructs on the of level souls (9D) inorder to affect them. just reaching through beyond the boundaries of normal space-time alone isn't enough.

 

[Bobsican]

Keep in mind that Interdimensional range is below Low Multiversal range, so several 2-C characters and above can indeed reach it.

 

[Sevil Natas]

Keep in mind that Interdimensional range is below Low Multiversal range, so several 2-C characters and above can indeed reach it.

yeah that is not necessarily the case. interdimensional range just means that you are able to reach beyond the normal boundaries in space-time. that should cover higher dimensional entities that even ppl with tier 1 range couldn't affect. in a way, the soul does qualify to have 1-C range but it lacks the distance. and characters with just 2-C range would not be able to affect it. for example, a 1D line can cover infinite distance it could stretch across 5 universes but even with all that range it still cannot affect the entirety of you since you still are technically infinitely larger since a 3D being always has Infinitely more volume than a 1D line. it would only reach an infinitesimal 1D slice of you.

 

[Bobsican]

Not really, as Ultima pointed out, being higher dimensional doesn't mean the gap is infinite (aka, tier 1), and we go with the lower thing by default, so anyone with 2-C range would cover it, and so it wouldn't require tier 1 range to begin with. Anything further would require for souls to be actually tier 1 for our purposes in the first place, to which I still disagree FRA.

 

[Sevil Natas]

Not really, as Ultima pointed out, being higher dimensional doesn't mean the gap is infinite (aka, tier 1), and we go with the lower thing by default, so anyone with 2-C range would cover it, and so it wouldn't require tier 1 range to begin with. Anything further would require for souls to be actually tier 1 for our purposes in the first place, to which I still disagree FRA.

that's not how it works.....
read the FAQ page. a higher dimensional object is always infinitely larger than a lower one

Are higher-dimensional beings infinitely larger than lower-dimensional equivalents?​

In a way, yes, though not how most would think when using this word. Basically, an arbitrary object of dimension n is essentially comprised by the total sum of uncountably infinite objects of one dimension less, which may be described as lower-dimensional "slices", each corresponding to one of the infinite points of a line. For instance, a square is made of infinitely many line segments (Lined up on the y-axis), a cube of infinitely many squares (Lined up on the z-axis), and so on.

and just because our current HD objects don't qualify for tier 1 does not mean they are fake or are any different in terms of size

Do note, however, that them not qualifying for Tier 2 and above doesn't mean they are "fake" higher-dimensional beings or anything of the sort. It is simply that being higher-dimensional does not inherently mean they have infinite power in the first place, as explained above.

Tiering System FAQ

A: Whether higher-dimensional entities qualify for such high tiers or not depends on several different factors, which may take root both in and out-of-verse. To explain this situation, we must first clarify what exactly being higher-dimensional entails. In a way, yes, though not how most would...

vsbattles.fandom.com

its all written right there and actually, it was ultima who explained all this to me

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Saying something is a line with no context is not a good way to prove 1-C. Light tends to be, well, a ray, which is what I think they were going for. You're extrapolating something that isn't there.

The context is there, you are missing it. To recap the human world (your standard low 2-C universe) is like a ray/line of light against the endless/infinite darkness that is the demon world. Once again it is meant to show how insignificant the human world is to the demon world, then we have chaos that is a higher dimension compared to the demon world.

A universe within a universe isn't out of the ordinary. And the outer universe does not have to be higher dimensional to contain it either.

This goes back to the above.

This is a 3-A feat at best? We don't automatically assume something of universal size is Low 2-C, let alone 1-C.

We already went over how the human world is L2C in the past, several times. Ofc we don't assume that, that's why we are bringing the context of the cosmology.

I only remember agreeing that Souls had like 9-D levels of temporal existence. But I never was sure about the 9 dimensions all being uncountable infinite in scale or that anyone had AP on that level.

We are trying to make chaos/the higher dimension that created demons tier 1.

Of course, since no demon ever has manipulated it we can't assume tier 1 AP for absolutely no one, but we can get tier 1 hax based on them manipulating souls, something that originates and returns to chaos naturally.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Sorry I wasn't able to reply today, too busy to come to wiki. I'll reply tomorrow after classes.
I need to sleep.

 

[Antvasima]

No problem.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

The context is there, you are missing it. To recap the human world (your standard low 2-C universe) is like a ray/line of light against the endless/infinite darkness that is the demon world. Once again it is meant to show how insignificant the human world is to the demon world, then we have chaos that is a higher dimension compared to the demon world.

I don't think that's enough

I believe nobody missed the intention of showing the difference beween Human and Demon World, our problem is in assuming said "Ray of Light" is about literall geometric view instead of, well, a normal ray of something

Like I said on my previous post:

Still, I don't see enough material in this specific statement to consider that it's talking about Ray in a geometric view + showcasing a difference in dimensions, such upgrade is insane and the manga doesn't give anything close to enough proof to consider that. You first say it is literall and therefore can't be the 2nd interpretation, then, you say it isn't literall cuz it's not about actual Light and Darkness, it may not be, mind you, but why that makes this "ray" something related to the geometry ? The meanings obviously used light or heat as examples of ray, but it can be a ray of something else (like the "substances" u said), that doesn't make it 1D. So many questions and problems with this quote

Showing a difference in size doesn't mean dimensional difference unless we have solid proof of that

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I don't think that's enough

I believe nobody missed the intention of showing the difference beween Human and Demon World, our problem is in assuming said "Ray of Light" is about literall geometric view instead of, well, a normal ray of something

I never said its a literal geometric view, my point with this is to show that, to the demon world, something like the human world (our standard space-time continuum) is nothing but a speck in existence.

Showing a difference in size doesn't mean dimensional difference unless we have solid proof of that

Is not only a difference in size. As you might remember the nexus (only a small part of the demon world) was going to overwrite the existence of the human world and create another demon world (don't confuse it with the merging Argosax and Mundus did).

But regardless, this is mainly about chaos, that is stated to be a higher dimension beyond the demon world. All this demon world/human world relationship/comparison is to show that infinities or higher infinities exist in verse and that chaos should be treated as such.

 

[Deadguy]

Bump