Crisis Cosmology: Scaling Characters

[Elizio33]

From what the Metal series proposed, it seems more like the Source is the end.

Johnathan Steward has said previously there was the Source at the beginning. One of the agents of the Source, the Raptor, had said all would be judged by the Source as a final judgment which connects with biblical ideas of Final Judgement after Revelation and the beginning of the Rapture.

Let's not derail this thread please and the raptor was saying that the Judges of the Source (or the Hands) would come to enact their "cosmic judgment" on the multiverse, which happened in this scene, before choosing to restore reality.

Let's talk about the Source issue on another thread.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Let's not derail this thread please and the raptor was saying that the Judges of the Source (or the Hands) would come to enact their "cosmic judgment" on the multiverse, which happened in this scene, before choosing to restore reality.

Let's talk about the Source issue on another thread.

Of course, it wasn't my intention to derail. I was, however, referring to this.

And when all ends, you will face the final judgment of the Source…..

 

[Elizio33]

Of course, it wasn't my intention to derail. I was, however, referring to this.

Oh yeah that is true. But the Hands are the ones who had enacted the cosmic judgment on the multiverse at the end of Death Metal. That's all I was saying.

 

[Elizio33]

Other than that @VeryGoofyToddler do you agree with the rest? (The op, the information about the Antimatter Universe being Low 2-C and Darkseid feat)

 

[Elizio33]

Bump.

 

[Trigger]

Bump.

Bump.

 

[Elizio33]

Bump

 

[Trigger]

Bump

If everything (prior) has been agreed to, why don't we make the changes?

 

[Robo432343]

Maybe you can ping deagonx

 

[Elizio33]

Maybe you can ping deagonx

@Deagonx

 

[Deleted member 30746]

Looks Good! I think we should put Death, Destiny and Dream above even Hands. 1-B is ideal for them.

 

[Asterotheology]

As I said in my previous post, I agree with mostly everything. Only thing I think should be changed is Death of the Endless for operating beyond the source wall. I'm iffy on including Destiny and Dream, so I'll leave those two up to everyone else's judge. The rest of the Endless can stay where they're at since they have no real showings outside of there vertigo counterparts to properly support them getting a higher tier like their older siblings.

 

[Elizio33]

I'm not saying it's impossible, but there's no real concrete evidence to upgrade the Endless to 1-B for the Crisis Cosmology... Okay, there might be references to past Vertigo stories that could be used as evidence, but I doubt those alone would be enough for such an upgrade. Low 1-C for the Endless should be fine for now and we'll see about the rest later in another crt.

 

[Elizio33]

As I said in my previous post, I agree with mostly everything. Only thing I think should be changed is Death of the Endless for operating beyond the source wall. I'm iffy on including Destiny and Dream, so I'll leave those two up to everyone else's judge. The rest of the Endless can stay where they're at since they have no real showings outside of there vertigo counterparts to properly support them getting a higher tier like their older siblings.

The problem is that even Yuga Khan was operating outside of the Source Wall in this same story and Yuga Khan, while superior to New Gods, isn't on the same level as Death of the Endless or any other Endless..

 

[Asterotheology]

I'm not saying it's impossible, but there's no real concrete evidence to upgrade the Endless to 1-B for the Crisis Cosmology... Okay, there might be references to past Vertigo stories that could be used as evidence, but I doubt those alone would be enough for such an upgrade. Low 1-C for the Endless should be fine for now and we'll see about the rest later in another crt.

The 4 issue Books of Magic run isn't a Vertigo title. It's actually a full on DC comic with people like Darkseid, High father, Spectre, Doctor Fate, Madam Xanadu, Zatanna, Merlin and others all appearing in it. The fact that it was brought forward is indeed enough to warrant it being allowed for Death. What it's referencing is what's happening on the panel in the annual. Only difference is it's details are updated to match DC's current cosmology.

There's also never been a statement, as far as I'm aware, that said Death is bounded to the Sphere of God or creation in the first place. Unless there's a comic I missed, I'm not even sure what contradictions are causing the problem here. She hardly has any showings in DC in the first place. If we go by what the actual comic state, she's beyond the source wall and there's nothing from N52 and on that contradicts it.

By the way, I never mentioned a tier she would be added to. You mentioned High 1-C to 1-B and I left the choice up to you. If you don't think she's worthy of 1-B then place her in High 1-C or 1-C. Regardless, there's just not enough information to say. We either take the statement from the 2021 Annual and the comic it's referencing that's completely canon or go with the vague statement of the Sphere of Gods being her home which tells you nothing at all besides where she likes to hang out. It's up to you, and that's all I'll say on this topic after this. The discussion is pretty much finished based on your decision passed this point anyway.

 

[Elizio33]

Okay maybe 1-B might works, but let's wait a little. What do you think about this flimsy white fabric behind reality that Darkseid mentioned in an Infinite Frontier story? It seems like the unknown tier would be better for it.

 

[Elizio33]

Darkseid (Godhead)

Attack Potency: Low Complex Multiverse level (Exists in the platonic and archetypal Sphere of the Gods beyond the Orrery of Worlds as a living idea, with all evil in the Multiverse consolidating into him as its focal point. With his power, Darkseid, encompassed the flimsy white fabric behind reality where unfold universal creation and destruction and where Psycho Pirate watches reality. Killed the Quintessence using his Omega Beams)

Empty Hand

Attack Potency: Low Complex Multiverse level (Stated to be more than the equivalent of Darkseid and fought against his true form, surpassing him at one point. Command the fifth-dimensional Gentry and created them from the remains of the Pre-Crisis Multiverse)

Pariah (Dark Crisis)

Attack Potency: Varies (During the Dark Crisis, Pariah was using his machines to harness a fraction of the true power of the Great Darkness he controlled) Low Complex Multiverse level (Stated by Dr. Multiverse to be more powerful than Darkseid or Empty Hand and enslaved them both using his darkness) to High Complex Multiverse level (Pariah's darkness besieged the infinite Multiverses and caused major changes in the space aspect of the Divine Continuum)

Thought Robot

Attack Potency: Complex Multiverse level (From his perspective, Comic Book Limbo appeared like an infinitesimal disk. Exists in the archetypal Monitor world of Nil as pure thought, the "good" side of every conceptual dichotomy)

Mandrakk

Attack Potency: Complex Multiverse level (The most powerful of the Monitor race. Superior to the Thought Robot and wounded it beyond repair. Exists in the archetypal Monitor world of Nil as pure thought, the "bad" side of every conceptual dichotomy)

Mister Mxyzptlk

Attack Potency: High Complex Multiverse level (Transcend the Third Dimension and the Fourth Dimension, being the most powerful imps inhabiting the Fifth Dimension, the imaginary "blood of the multiverse" existing and flowing all around and between the realms of the DC Multiverse at the exception of the Sixth Dimension and the Source Wall)

World Forger/Monitor/Anti-Monitor (Sixth Dimension)

Attack Potency: High Complex Multiverse level (The Brothers Three surpasses everything in the DC Multiverse, being four of the most powerful few beings and residing in the Sixth Dimension, the highest plane and final realm of existence before reaching the greater Omniverse outside of the Source Wall)

Perpetua

Attack Potency: Varies (Perpetua's power varies depending on how much Crisis Energy she has within her, ranging from creating and destroying planets and galaxies around her to cracking space-time through her actions), up to High Complex Multiverse level (Superior to the Ultra-Monitor whose power was considered by Mobius to be "unlike anything he'd felt before" and her rise in power had been felt anywhere across the Multiverse and the Dark Multiverse. Her fight against the Darkest Knight was raging across all facets of reality and was collapsing existence according to the Chronicler who had stated that the stories of Multiverse were tearing apart because of them)

The Hands

Attack Potency: Hyperverse level (The Hands transcend and surpass anything and anyone in existence, being the "rulers" of the greater Omniverse beyond the Source Wall and judge the Multiverses in the "end of the void". Perpetua feared that if her siblings, the Hands, came to discover her actions, they would come for her and erase her and her Multiverse from existence)

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Darkseid (Godhead)

Attack Potency: Low Complex Multiverse level (Exists in the platonic and archetypal Sphere of the Gods beyond the Orrery of Worlds as a living idea, with all evil in the Multiverse consolidating into him as its focal point. With his power, Darkseid, encompassed the flimsy white fabric behind reality where unfold universal creation and destruction and where Psycho Pirate watches reality. Killed the Quintessence using his Omega Beams)

Empty Hand

Attack Potency: Low Complex Multiverse level (Stated to be more than the equivalent of Darkseid and fought against his true form, surpassing him at one point. Command the fifth-dimensional Gentry and created them from the remains of the Pre-Crisis Multiverse)

Pariah (Dark Crisis)

Attack Potency: Varies (During the Dark Crisis, Pariah was using his machines to harness a fraction of the true power of the Great Darkness he controlled) Low Complex Multiverse level (Stated by Dr. Multiverse to be more powerful than Darkseid or Empty Hand and enslaved them both using his darkness) to High Complex Multiverse level (Pariah's darkness besieged the infinite Multiverses and caused major changes in the space aspect of the Divine Continuum)

Thought Robot

Attack Potency: Complex Multiverse level (From his perspective, Comic Book Limbo appeared like an infinitesimal disk. Exists in the archetypal Monitor world of Nil as pure thought, the "good" side of every conceptual dichotomy)

Mandrakk

Attack Potency: Complex Multiverse level (The most powerful of the Monitor race. Superior to the Thought Robot and wounded it beyond repair. Exists in the archetypal Monitor world of Nil as pure thought, the "bad" side of every conceptual dichotomy)

Mister Mxyzptlk

Attack Potency: High Complex Multiverse level (Surpasses everything in the DC Multiverse at the exception of the Sixth Dimension and the Source Wall, being the most powerful imps inhabiting the Fifth Dimension, the imaginary "blood of the multiverse" existing and flowing all around and between the realms of the DC Multiverse)

World Forger/Monitor/Anti-Monitor (Sixth Dimension)

Attack Potency: High Complex Multiverse level (The Brothers Three surpasses everything in the DC Multiverse, being four of the most powerful few beings and residing in the Sixth Dimension, the highest plane and final realm of existence before reaching the greater Omniverse outside of the Source Wall)

Perpetua

Attack Potency: Varies (Perpetua's power varies depending on how much Crisis Energy she has within her, ranging from creating and destroying planets and galaxies around her to cracking space-time through her actions), up to High Complex Multiverse level (Superior to the Ultra-Monitor whose power was considered by Mobius to be "unlike anything he'd felt before" and her rise in power had been felt anywhere across the Multiverse and the Dark Multiverse. Her fight against the Darkest Knight was raging across all facets of reality and was collapsing existence according to the Chronicler who had stated that the stories of Multiverse were tearing apart because of them)

The Hands

Attack Potency: Hyperverse level (The Hands transcend and surpass anything and anyone in existence, being the "rulers" of the greater Omniverse beyond the Source Wall and judge the Multiverses in the "end of the void". Perpetua feared that if her siblings, the Hands, came to discover her actions, they would come for her and erase her and her Multiverse from existence)

last I checked, isn't mxy < moniter sphere?

 

[Elizio33]

last I checked, isn't mxy < moniter sphere?

In the Crisis Cosmology, Mxy is above the Monitor Sphere because of Snyder's portrayal of the Fifth Dimension.

 

[Asterotheology]

Okay maybe 1-B might works, but let's wait a little. What do you think about this flimsy white fabric behind reality that Darkseid mentioned in an Infinite Frontier story? It seems like the unknown tier would be better for it.

I'm not sure. I don't recall anything significant being mentioned about it.

Darkseid (Godhead)

Attack Potency: Low Complex Multiverse level (Exists in the platonic and archetypal Sphere of the Gods beyond the Orrery of Worlds as a living idea, with all evil in the Multiverse consolidating into him as its focal point. With his power, Darkseid, encompassed the flimsy white fabric behind reality where unfold universal creation and destruction and where Psycho Pirate watches reality. Killed the Quintessence using his Omega Beams)

Empty Hand

Attack Potency: Low Complex Multiverse level (Stated to be more than the equivalent of Darkseid and fought against his true form, surpassing him at one point. Command the fifth-dimensional Gentry and created them from the remains of the Pre-Crisis Multiverse)

Pariah (Dark Crisis)

Attack Potency: Varies (During the Dark Crisis, Pariah was using his machines to harness a fraction of the true power of the Great Darkness he controlled) Low Complex Multiverse level (Stated by Dr. Multiverse to be more powerful than Darkseid or Empty Hand and enslaved them both using his darkness) to High Complex Multiverse level (Pariah's darkness besieged the infinite Multiverses and caused major changes in the space aspect of the Divine Continuum)

Thought Robot

Attack Potency: Complex Multiverse level (From his perspective, Comic Book Limbo appeared like an infinitesimal disk. Exists in the archetypal Monitor world of Nil as pure thought, the "good" side of every conceptual dichotomy)

Mandrakk

Attack Potency: Complex Multiverse level (The most powerful of the Monitor race. Superior to the Thought Robot and wounded it beyond repair. Exists in the archetypal Monitor world of Nil as pure thought, the "bad" side of every conceptual dichotomy)

Mister Mxyzptlk

Attack Potency: High Complex Multiverse level (Surpasses everything in the DC Multiverse at the exception of the Sixth Dimension and the Source Wall, being the most powerful imps inhabiting the Fifth Dimension, the imaginary "blood of the multiverse" existing and flowing all around and between the realms of the DC Multiverse)

World Forger/Monitor/Anti-Monitor (Sixth Dimension)

Attack Potency: High Complex Multiverse level (The Brothers Three surpasses everything in the DC Multiverse, being four of the most powerful few beings and residing in the Sixth Dimension, the highest plane and final realm of existence before reaching the greater Omniverse outside of the Source Wall)

Perpetua

Attack Potency: Varies (Perpetua's power varies depending on how much Crisis Energy she has within her, ranging from creating and destroying planets and galaxies around her to cracking space-time through her actions), up to High Complex Multiverse level (Superior to the Ultra-Monitor whose power was considered by Mobius to be "unlike anything he'd felt before" and her rise in power had been felt anywhere across the Multiverse and the Dark Multiverse. Her fight against the Darkest Knight was raging across all facets of reality and was collapsing existence according to the Chronicler who had stated that the stories of Multiverse were tearing apart because of them)

The Hands

Attack Potency: Hyperverse level (The Hands transcend and surpass anything and anyone in existence, being the "rulers" of the greater Omniverse beyond the Source Wall and judge the Multiverses in the "end of the void". Perpetua feared that if her siblings, the Hands, came to discover her actions, they would come for her and erase her and her Multiverse from existence)

Where's Anti-Crisis Wonder Woman? I just noticed she's missing. Shouldn't she be on par with Darkest Knight and Perpetua in terms of her tier?

 

[Elizio33]

I'm not sure. I don't recall anything significant being mentioned about it.


Where's Anti-Crisis Wonder Woman? I just noticed she's missing. Shouldn't she be on par with Darkest Knight and Perpetua in terms of her tier?

1. It has been described as being behind reality, where universes are created and destroyed and from which Psycho Pirate watches reality. Apart from this information, we know nothing!

2. Anti-Crisis Wonder Woman should scale to the Darkest Knight who fight and killed Perpetua and was considered as a threat by the Hands.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

There’s just something in particular I want to address; the Anti-Monitor absorbing the energies of the Antimatter Universe. This feat is currently considered to be 2-A, but the DC Cosmology blog said that any feats of creation or destruction at level of the Antimatter Universe are higher degrees of Low 2-C than regular universes. So here is.

It's considered a 2-A feat because it was replacing the main universes that were being destroyed.

The Anti-Matter universe wasn't in it's normal size when the Anti-Monitor absorbed it.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

In the Crisis Cosmology, Mxy is above the Monitor Sphere because of Snyder's portrayal of the Fifth Dimension.

Yeah, but Mxy doesn’t scale to the entirety of the Fifth Dimension which is more metaphorical place of Imps and Imagination than an actual realms like Monitor Sphere.

 

[Elizio33]

Yeah, but Mxy doesn’t scale to the entirety of the Fifth Dimension which is more metaphorical place of Imps and Imagination than an actual realms like Monitor Sphere.

Indeed, but we don't know if the Monitor Sphere is really above Mxy or not. It wouldn't be that far-fetched to believe he's above the Monitor Sphere since imps are above Hypertime, which was revealed to be half of existence in Flashpoint Beyond.

The Monitor Sphere was not mapped into the Divine Continuum, but the Dark Multiverse, which encompasses everything on the multiverse map, was.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Indeed, but we don't know if the Monitor Sphere is really above Mxy or not. It wouldn't be that farfetched to believe him to be above the Monitor Sphere since imp are above Hypertime which was revealed to be half of existence.

The residents of the Monitor Sphere should be lower than Mxy by virtue of the Fifth Dimesnion existing above the Monitor Sphere. However, Mxy by himself compared to the Monitor Sphere is something different than comparing the realms to realms and individual to individual.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

The Monitor Sphere was not mapped into the Divine Continuum, but the Dark Multiverse, which encompasses everything on the multiverse map, was.

Does that really matter? The Dark Multiverse is separate of the Map, anyways. We don’t know the equivalent of the Monitor Sphere for the Dark Multiverse which exist outside the regular Multiverse. I don’t think even Perpetua or Darkest Knight fully scale to it.

 

[Elizio33]

The residents of the Monitor Sphere should be lower than Mxy by virtue of the Fifth Dimesnion existing above the Monitor Sphere. However, Mxy by himself compared to the Monitor Sphere is something different than comparing the realms to realms and individual to individual.

Are you suggesting a varying tier depending on which plane of existence Mxy is? If yes, i could see: Varies. 4-B to 2-C, up to High 1-C in the Fifth Dimension.

 

[Elizio33]

Does that really matter? The Dark Multiverse is separate of the Map, anyways. We don’t know the equivalent of the Monitor Sphere for the Dark Multiverse which exist outside the regular Multiverse. I don’t think even Perpetua or Darkest Knight fully scale to it.

They scale above it by virtue of the Sixth Dimension. By feats alone, no. By cosmological position and hierarchy, yes.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Are you suggesting a varying tier depending on which plane of existence Mxy is? If yes, i could see: Varies. 4-B to 2-C, up to High 1-C in the Fifth Dimension.

Maybe. I’m not in the mind set that any being outside the Judges can just destroy everything easily. If Monitor Sphere is 1-C and the Fifth Dimension is High 1-C. It’s more likely Mxy is around 1-C at the lower end, not totally superior to the Sphere nor fully scaling to the Fifth Dimension. They take and use the power of imagination, they are not imagination themselves.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

They scale above it by virtue of the Sixth Dimension. By feats alone, no. By cosmological position and hierarchy, yes.

No one should scale above the Dark Multiverse except the Judges and the Source. It’s literally disconnected from the regular Multiverse where the 6th Dimension is housed.

It’s not part of the order that Perpetua created. She almost at full power can only take a Universe at a time. The Dark Multiverse is metaphorically infinitely bigger than the regular Multiverse. It would take the highest of the Unseen Council or the Presence to reach that level of destruction power.

 

[Elizio33]

No one should scale above the Dark Multiverse except the Judges and the Source. It’s literally disconnected from the regular Multiverse where the 6th Dimension is housed.

It’s not part of the order that Perpetua created. She almost at full power can only take a Universe at a time. The Dark Multiverse is metaphorically infinitely bigger than the regular Multiverse. It would take the highest of the Unseen Council or the Presence to reach that level of destruction power.

We should save this discussion for another thread or on my PM if you wish.

 

[Elizio33]

Are you suggesting a varying tier depending on which plane of existence Mxy is? If yes, i could see: Varies. 4-B to 2-C, up to High 1-C in the Fifth Dimension.

Anyway, what do you think of the proposal?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Mxy being 1-C is my take. He doesn’t fully have superiority over the Monitor Sphere and he doesn’t fully scale to the Fifth Dimension. However, he is very much superior to the Godsphere.

 

[Elizio33]

Maybe. I’m not in the mind set that any being outside the Judges can just destroy everything easily. If Monitor Sphere is 1-C and the Fifth Dimension is High 1-C. It’s more likely Mxy is around 1-C at the lower end, not totally superior to the Sphere nor fully scaling to the Fifth Dimension. They take and use the power of imagination, they are not imagination themselves.

Of course! I was more talking about hierarchy and position in the cosmology rather than feats. The imp seemingly share a similar nature as the Fifth Dimension since they are referred to as "guardian angels" or "Imaginary friends" or the most obvious; "Imaginary-thought constructs".

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Of course! I was more talking about hierarchy and position in the cosmology rather than feats. The imp seemingly share a similar nature as the Fifth Dimension since they are referred to as "guardian angels" or "Imaginary friends" or the most obvious; "Imaginary-thought constructs".

Since they’re from imagination then those titles are fitting. It’s not like the New Gods can just destroy the Sphere where they reside or Angels being superior to Heaven outside the Demiurgic Archangels.

 

[Elizio33]

Mxy being 1-C is my take. He doesn’t fully have superiority over the Monitor Sphere and he doesn’t fully scale to the Fifth Dimension. However, he is very much superior to the Godsphere.

Imps are still above Hypertime, although there is not enough evidence of qualitative superiority. So, i think that Varies. 4-B to 2-C, up to High 1-C in the Fifth Dimension works well.

This is primarily due to hierarchical position in the cosmology rather than whether or not they can destroy or create higher-dimensional realms. For example, Perpetua was clearly shown to be able to only destroy one universe at a time. She is not 3-A or Low 2-C because her position in the cosmology gives her a higher tier.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

What states they’re stronger in the Fifth Dimension? Imps fully channeling of Imagination? The High 1-C seems random. Mxy powers almost always seems consistent. I think 1-C is good, personally speaking. If you’re insistent of the Fifth Dimension scale then do something like 1-C, possibly High 1-C.

 

[Elizio33]

What states they’re stronger in the Fifth Dimension? Imps fully channeling of Imagination? The High 1-C seems random. Mxy powers almost always seems consistent. I think 1-C is good, personally speaking. If you’re insistent of the Fifth Dimension scale then do something like 1-C, possibly High 1-C.

The New Gods have been accepted as Low 1-C because their true forms share a similar nature to the Sphere of the Gods and this is also the case with the Imps and the Fifth Dimension, so i don't see why High 1-C seems random. Even the Monitors shares a similar nature to the Monitor Sphere as thoughts of Monitor-Mind. Plus, i already told you that this is primarily by virtue of their hierarchical position in the cosmology and that the Imps are above Hypertime which is half of existence. The varying tier was just a proposition.

I'd be fine with 1-C, possibly High 1-C although I personally think a straight High 1-C would be better.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

The New Gods have been accepted as Low 1-C because their true forms share a similar nature to the Sphere of the Gods and this is also the case with the Imps and the Fifth Dimension, so i don't see why High 1-C seems random.

That’s the problem. It doesn’t work like that simply because of the relationship between the Gods. Has it been established that the Fifth Dimension is like that? If not, we can’t just do that and I don’t agree New Gods both avatar or true form scale to the entirety of the Sphere just one section of their belief system. Darkseid can scale to both New Genesis and Apokolips in his true form but all the other realms outside in their own setting, I don’t think so.

Even the Monitors shares a similar nature to the Monitor Sphere as thoughts of Monitor-Mind. Plus, i already told you that this is primarily by virtue of their hierarchical position in the cosmology and that the Imps are above Hypertime which is half of existence. The varying tier was just a proposition.

Monitors, none of them, scale to the entire Sphere either. The hierarchical position as you call it ignoring common logic, you can not make a random assumption of scaling with resident to where they originated from. Hence separate individuals from locations. It gives the wrong impression of scaling to do that. However, I do understand that context fits some character better such as the Gods but it doesn’t to other beings.

 

[Elizio33]

That’s the problem. It doesn’t work like that simply because of the relationship between the Gods. Has it been established that the Fifth Dimension is like that? If not, we can’t just do that and I don’t agree New Gods both avatar or true form scale to the entirety of the Sphere just one section of their belief system. Darkseid can scale to both New Genesis and Apokolips in his true form but all the other realms outside in their own setting, I don’t think so.

Monitors, none of them, scale to the entire Sphere either. The hierarchical position as you call it ignoring common logic, you can not make a random assumption of scaling with resident to where they originated from. Hence separate individuals from locations.

Gods don't scale to the entirety of the Sphere of the Gods, but only to their respective realms in the Godsphere which still have qualitative superiority over the Orrery of Worlds, hence why Low 1-C is fine. Even If a High 1-C Mxy doesn't work due to existing in the Fifth Dimension, it would work due to existing above Hypertime.

Anyway, this would be my last comment on the subject.