Classroom Of The Elite - Ayanokoji's abilities organization and additions CRT - Part 3

[Dinozxd]

Supernatural willpower was for the WR training page

Not for Ayanokoji

It effected Ayanokouji before as well and it does now too. The main point is how it uses the same arguments when those arguments were debunked in an another thread.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

It effected Ayanokouji before as well and it does now too. The main point is how it uses the same arguments when those arguments were debunked in an another thread.

They were not actually, You did not debunk them, You ignored debating and just waited for staff input

 

[Dinozxd]

They were not actually, You did not debunk them, You ignored debating and just waited for staff input

The first staff input was in halfway through page 2 and the second one was at page 3. We literally debated these topics for one and a half pages.

I think it would be nice to call Bambu here if we didn't already as he was the one that evaliated the thread that debunked these stuff.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I'll read through the thread later, but I will say that all of the scans will need to have a chapter number attached to them for where they appear if its new stuff.

 

[RoggerReggor]

I'll read through the thread later, but I will say that all of the scans will need to have a chapter number attached to them for where they appear if its new stuff.

Thanks for your attention. I will quote the OP and write in the OP and from about which volume the scans belong. (I will underline my text)

Kid Ayanokouji feats:
Photographic Memory - (Was implied to have a perfect memory by a White Room instructor. Was able to remember positions of 45 cards and was 100% correct in naming them. In 3 years, he was implied to never forget anything, not even the memories made just after his birth. He could remember the first memory of him discovering his own hands and the ceiling of the White Room, when he was only a newborn and couldn't speak) - All of the scans are from Volume 0

Enhanced Senses - (Enhanced Awareness - Should highly upscale this feat done by Yagami due to vastly superior training and the same curriculum till level 4) - Year 2 Volume 7

Enhanced Accelerated Development - (Training and Battle: Physical stats, skills and Intelligence - Quickly developed past Shiro completely in just back to back 3 matches and never lost to him again up until 9 years old, no matter which fighting style they used, he is constantly developing a growth rate far higher than any other students. It was said that if Kiyotaka was to be compared to any other child from age 0 to 3 there would be a big gap in ability and by the time he and other White room Students were in "junior high" they would have the mental age of 30. It was noted by a young Arisu Sakayanagi that it is due to his "superior DNA", he adapted to the White Room training beta curriculum harsh training, Shiro said that for every brawl he had with Ayanokouji, he used to win a few first matches against Ayanokouji but Ayanokouji never lost afterwards, despite both being trained in the same facility and continuously, it was stated that he can absorb everything that is given to him via his adaptability and he never reached his "plateau".) - All of the scans are from Volume 0.

Information Analysis - (Got an idea of his opponents being much stronger than the adults he had fought before and having been in an uphill battle just upon analyzing their movements, chose a weapon to fight them upon looking at the pros and cons of a given weapon upon the information) - Volume 0

Supernatural Willpower: (Survived for a far longer time than anyone in the 4th generation of White Room, without suffering from any kind of ill effects like mental depression which were described to be able to potentially kill people, which requires a very high level of mental resilience, endurance and tolerance, while being kids of age below 9.) - Applies to Shiro and Ayanokouji Kiyotaka

Reasonings of why these are really supernatural willpower:
- I will try to point out things from the narratives to match a few standards set for Supernatural Willpower. And this time, it is going to be an essay. These are the standards:

• First of all, let's talk about the one who was really close to getting this, it would be Yuki, one of the last few survivors of the 4th generation. But, due to her reaching her potential, and excessive trauma, she was forced to drop out. When she has dropped out, little is known about what happened to her, but when Ayanokouji has completed the Beta Curriculum, he is asked to meet Yuki, and a lot more information was revealed about her, including the fact of how traumatic the White Room can be.
• White Room is an awfully good training program, while it had shown awesome results in the children, it was overly strict with the children. Children were kicked around by adults and were subject to violence, despite their gender or how weak or inferior they might be, and were forced to get up, no matter how crippled or tired they would be. Ayanokouji mentioned that he cried at first, but then he realized that nobody would have come to help him, note that this happened when he was just a newborn.
• Coming to Yuki, she was badly traumatized, to the point where she couldn't even meet people from then on (note that Yuki's father didn't even mention White Room, he paused. This indicates that just the name of the White Room was enough). All of this is happening when they are age 14, so she has around more than 5 years to recover from the trauma, but it was mentioned that no counseling show could cure it. Yuki's father was worried about her, and he was also rich, so it is good to assume that the therapies Yuki received should be by well-qualified therapists and counselors. For the final, Ayanokouji was shocked that Yuki was still alive but affirmed that everything was potentially over for her, and that he felt like he was facing a dead person.
• Coming to exceeding your own limits, Suzukake had himself designed a program which pushed humans beyond their capabilities. In fact, level 5 was the limit, even after they were pushed beyond what they could do. Though this should give a considerable amount of willpower to anyone who's going beyond the level 5 or 6, I think we can still discard the thought of giving this to Yuki because she was still suffering from trauma after whatever happened to her, which was not cured for a good amount of time, and that, it probably never will be.
• Furthermore, it should be noted that the characters proposed for this did it when they were less than 9 years of age. Less than 9 years is crazy, a 9-year-old kid is gullible, innocent and violent attacks and trauma can absolutely be lethal to them if they don't show resilience against it.
• For reasons above, Ayanokouji Kiyotaka and Shiro should have Supernatural Willpower. I tried to find similar stuff which might have taken place IRL, but there were no signs of anything even being comparable to this, due to unrealistic nature of White Room
  
  
  - Volume 0
  
  Resistance to Social Influencing (Fear and Manipulation) - (It was mentioned that his emotions stopped working, this should likely be the reasons why his older self was unaffected by Ryuuen's glare that stunned Housen Kazuomi. It was mentioned that White Room subjects were given training to not feel emotions like fear. Stated he cannot be manipulated due to not having the heart for it)
  [/SPOILER]
  - Volume 0
  
  Prime Ayanokouji:
  All previous abilities and current Ayanokoji's abilities massively better but worse Social influence (Manipulation wise)
  
  
  Current Ayanokouji feats:
  Stealth Mastery - (Can kill his presence. - Year 2 Volume 1 He also followed several people without being noticed. I will mention the scans in the sequence: Year 1 Volume 5, Year 1 Volume 9, Year 2 Volume 2, Year 2 Volume 3)
  
  Analytical Prediction - (Reads Ryuuen very easily and placed his hand in the places like seconds before Ryuuen even attacked there, Can think of every possibility and chooses the most optimal one and by extension he can predict the future to some extent by sheer mental calculations.) - Year 1 Volume 7 (canon clips from Anime Season 2 Episode 12) and the scan from Year 1 Volume 7
  
  Better Enhanced senses - (Enhanced Awareness - Knew Kei was following him without even seeing her - My apologies if the feat scan doesn't work since Crunchyroll just recently removed their video, but it is Season 2 Episode 7, Knows someone is following him by sensing their presence - Year 2 Volume 3, however, he revealed this in Year 2 Volume 4. Said it himself that he was capable of fighting Tsubasa Nanase even with his eyes closed - Year 2 Volume 3. Telescopic Vision - from 5 meters away, he could tell that Amasawa had involuntarily loosened her grip by little - Year 2 Volume 7)
  
  Better Information Analysis - (Can gauge the opponent - (Dead scan) strenght by mere glancing and know what martial arts -Year 2 Volume 3 they are using with a glance -Year 1 Volume 7)
  
  Limited Power Mimicry - (Able to copy someone by absorbing visual and verbal information, however, this extends only to physical abilities such as sports and techniques which are near to his learnt techniques.) - Year 2 Volume 8
  
  Social influencing - (Passive - His presence can make Karuizawa more perceptive about her enviroment, People's emotions, Facial expressions and atmosphere - Year 1 Volume 7.5, Active - Manipulated Ryueen into thinking all of his plans were his own where instead Ayanokoji already planned every line of thinking Ryueen had - Year 1 Volume 7 and he lured Takuya into expelling himself with a love letter) - Year 2 Volume 7
  
  Fear Inducement (Caused Karuizawa and Hirata to spill their secrets by inducing fear in them, Hirata said that Ayanokouji's eyes showed a darkness which was so dark that it was terrifying. Stunned Nagumo with his killing intent) - Year 1 Volume 11 and Year 2 Volume 4
  
  Now, the reason why this was argued to be bad in the first place was because people thought Hirata was being socially influenced by Ayanokouji, which is simply not the case here.
  ​
  • Ayanokouji as of this time had no social influence of himself in his own class or in the entire school to be fair. He was infamous as being Suzune's shadow and people were simply unaware that he was manipulating Suzune from the background.
  • People also pointed out how it could be a simple intimidation. But again, this is a very bad argument. To cause intimidation, you will need to have eyes which are intimidating. People like Ichinose Honami can directly look Ayanokouji into his eyes. If his eyes were really intimidating, then Ichinose should be feeling influenced as well, but she doesn't, because Ayanokouji didn't really use this on her. A ton of other characters have directly looked Ayanokouji into his eyes, and Ayanokouji didn't feel any need to induce fear in them, so they didn't even feel intimidated in the first place. Another thing is that it's highly unlikely to feel intimidated from Ayanokouji. Ayanokouji was surveyed to be literally the 5th most attractive face in his entire school, he was never even mentioned to be a good or bad presence and literally had no such persona which humans feel intimidated through.
  • Going on, this ability, while is tried to be explained through normal means, it is indeed supernatural. Now then it is proved that Ayanokouji's eyes aren't naturally intimidating in themselves, the thing Hirata mentioned was completely something which you would expect to be happening normally.
  • Hirata said that the darkness which Ayanokouji's eyes had forced him to feel fear and spill his secrets. It wasn't really revealed much till this point, but Ayanokouji has the White Room training, the darkness in his life is White Room, and it is what gave him this ability in the first place.
  • Secondly, there's no way someone like Karuizawa would even spill her secrets by a simple intimidation. Manebe and other girls bullied Karuizawa, but she didn't concede to them. Ryuuen subjected Karuizawa to heavy violence, she still never revealed Ayanokouji and sold him out. Karuizawa was forced to reveal her secrets through Ayanokouji's abilities. If violence couldn't do anything against her, I don't think any kind of intimidation will, she's a girl with a sheer will.
  • 
    With the above, I think it's clear that Ayanokouji has a voluntary Fear Inducement ability, which was created by the darkness he experienced in his childhood, and it's also supernatural to a degree.
    
    Fourth Wall Awareness - (Asks the reader a question) - Year 1 Volume 1
    [/SPOILER]
    
    Minor addition for Ayanokouji's intelligence;
    
    Ayanokouji has possibly read hundreds millions of books, however, it might be that he was joking as he says it was a joke himself after saying it, though it was when he was highly unreliable as a narrator. - Year 1 Volume 2
    

Done, sorry if it looks like a mess.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Holy shit dude the point of that scan wasn't to point this out. It was to show how characters can suddenly intimidate people.

And that doesn't relate with what Ayanokouji does in the slightest. He has no social position of his own and now, we are done on this one.

You ignored my whole point cuz I said "lame ass bullying". I'm tryna tell you how the fact that Kei endured bullying doesn't validate Koji's fear hax like at all. Koji carrying "abysmal darkness" in his eyes is just Social Influence.

Again, this is a very bad point. Carrying an abysmal darkness is not comparable to social influencing, not when it makes someone reveal their secrets, in fact, I am tired of asking you this, tell me why would some person in their right mind would actually just reveal their secrets.

Bro, Ayanokouji could have just gone up to Hirata and asked him to reveal his secrets.

But Ayanokouji legit said that while he did instill fear in him, he even gave him a thread to come out of the "hell" Hirata was supposed to be trapped in. (here) Also, none of this is natural, it isn't even supposed to be. Not only did Ayanokouji make Hirata terrified

No? It's just making someone afraid. Which does fit here.

It is, but not directly, some people whom you try to intimidate might just sometimes go on and say "what is this clown trying to do lol" and might think you are just acting to make yourself look bigger. Intimidation isn't a complex technique, some people are easy victims to intimidation, some aren't, it's just the matter of how emotionally unstable you are and what your image of the person in front of you is.

Intimidation can be achieved by natural means regardless of "position" and that's what I'm tryna point out here. This should be common knowledge bruh.

I read like many sources which even mentioned the consequences of intimidation. And apparently, even my uncle doesn't have this supposed "common knowledge". Anyhow, I am still asking, give me a source which actually teaches you to become this "socially influencing" via just your eyes, that a person just reveals everything about them.

Of course, I don't need it because I am Ayanokouji, but I still thought about teaching my buds that thing.

The scans you posted clearly show how Koji had the upper hand in this scenario as he states "Truthfully, he probably did want to reveal his innermost thoughts." Ayanokouji just made him reveal his secrets through threatning him with his eyes (he literally states so). This is some textbook Social Influencing.

Truthfully, he probably did want to reveal his innermost thoughts. But he couldn't do that, that's why I was here.

Again, Ayanokouji didn't know Hirata had any secrets he was hiding, he just said "probably", like that's literally what his intuition-based information analysis is, and we know this from threads to threads, so no, I will not explain that.

 

[RoggerReggor]

It effected Ayanokouji before as well and it does now too. The main point is how it uses the same arguments when those arguments were debunked in an another thread.

The previous thread avoided debates and spread a ton of misinformation about the feats.

It tried to downgrade the feats because some people like Jacques Roellinger were able to endure severe injuries which could have resulted into fatal results but didn't. It tries to explain this IRL feat as willpower, when it is just the person having the will to live and being lucky enough to have blood clot over all his injuries so he doesn't suffer blood loss and an eventual death. It is to be noted that this one person was never hit with something which was directly fatal. In fact, through VSBW standards it would pretty much be an athletic-peak human pain tolerance feat. Plus, thank God that this person didn't get all those injuries in one blow and could eventually recover and show enough resilience to eventually serve his country.

Also, it used an example of Andreas Mihavecz where he could stay hungry and live with minimal water for 18 days. I don't know why this is an example to downgrade the feat.

But none of these things above actually even come close to the torture of the White Room. First of all, yes, students were tortured in the White Room (already scanned). So, this means that they were being dominated, so both the examples above don't come close to this.

The time for which they endured this torture would be 5-9 years (for both Shiro and Yuki, around 10-14 years for Ayanokouji). Also, these kids were around 9 years of age when these feats took place. I couldn't find any source on the internet where kids have endured this much, in fact, most of the kids at this age can die from shocks by even things like being trapped in an elevator in an electricity outage, they were bullied, nope, thrown around, to the point where they would have to stand up, it wasn't cared if they were a girl, and they even sprayed vomits right out from just the bullying:

It is even mentioned that they were sent to the brink of death (and seeing this, they were). If you see the above scan, you should note that their mental resilience was tested, even when the kids were seemingly just paralyzed. Also, this is when the 4th-gen is only 4 years old. Now, imagine enduring all of this for 5 years, and for almost daily, and as a kid, where even normal shocks are more than enough to scar someone for life.

Plus, another reason why the White Room training isn't comparable to any IRL examples is because the training is itself above what a peak human should be able to perform. Around 5 years is like 1827 days and being tortured for such a long time isn't a child's play.

We also know for a fact that the post-White Room trauma was not curable by even huge counselling shows and isolation treatment, but both Shiro and Ayanokouji didn't suffer any of those ill-effects of trauma.

Unless you can find a case where kids of ages this small could endure that much, which you cannot considering how it is literally illegal to conduct experiments like White Room IRL, and they cannot design a "higher than peak human" curriculum either way. We have already accepted enduring the White Room curriculum till level 10 as a superhuman stamina and pain tolerance feat, I don't know why there are doubts for them having no willpower, even though willpower matters a lot in this case.

 

[Vzearr]

The OP looks good from a glance.

Don't ignore the fact that some of the abilities were argued and debated here, where their reasoning was already agreed to be bad ?

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Don't ignore the fact that some of the abilities were argued and debated here, where their reasoning was already agreed to be bad ?

Like i said, New arguments and proof are given in this thread

Rejecting in another thread does not mean anything because there, The arguments presented here are not being used there

 

[Vzearr]

Like i said, New arguments and proof are given in this thread

Rejecting in another thread does not mean anything because there, The arguments presented here are not being used there

Thats not true...

Are we really going to have to go in a circular ability removal and addition, content revision thread ?

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Thats not true...

Are we really going to have to go in a circular ability removal and addition, content revision thread ?

You are literally trying to remove proven abilities for god knows why, What do you mean??

 

[Vzearr]

You are literally trying to remove proven abilities for god knows why, What do you mean??

Your reasoning is wrong, same as last time. Yet, you'll stonewall to the point nobody wants to debate with you anymore.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Your reasoning is wrong, same as last time.

It really isn't but you do you

 

[Worthless]

Volume 0 is the only COTE novel I wouldn't recommend. It's utterly disgusting. Couldn't stomach some scenes. Anyway, I agree with everything but neutral on the fear-inducement part.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Don't ignore the fact that some of the abilities were argued and debated here, where their reasoning was already agreed to be bad ?

Bro I am tired of this. You legit never replied to my points in that thread. You told me that you would argue it if I wanted after the staff inputs, and we then started debating Analytical Prediction due to Dino bringing that point, but you never argued Fear Inducement (hm). In fact, you aren't able to do that now either.

As for the debate part, I need logical explanations of how this guy is able to communicate through his eyes, instill fear in people who realistically shouldn't be afraid of him even for a second due to their own high-profile social aura and cause them to reveal their secrets. And yes, I would require actual sources from internet and not the bs like "it is easy to do" or stuff like that. Forgive me browsing, but I never found any extreme cases of intimidation on the internet. And yes, I don't think I or even Zetsu will reply to you further, because apparently, you think you can go and just intimidate someone and cause them to be so afraid that they reveal a very important detail of their life which can ultimately even ruin their stuff, so, unless you provide actual sources from the internet where those things do take place.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Volume 0 is the only COTE novel I wouldn't recommend. It's utterly disgusting. Couldn't stomach some scenes. Anyway, I agree with everything but neutral on the fear-inducement part.

Yes, the text gore is insane.

 

[Vzearr]

As for the debate part, I need logical explanations of how this guy is able to communicate through his eyes, instill fear in people who realistically shouldn't be afraid of him even for a second due to their own high-profile social aura and cause them to reveal their secrets. And yes, I would require actual sources from internet and not the bs like "it is easy to do" or stuff like that. Forgive me browsing, but I never found any extreme cases of intimidation on the internet. And yes, I don't think I or even Zetsu will reply to you further, because apparently, you think you can go and just intimidate someone and cause them to be so afraid that they reveal a very important detail of their life which can ultimately even ruin their stuff, so, unless you provide actual sources from the internet where those things do take place.

You've been given logical explanations yet you choose to stonewall.

 

[RoggerReggor]

You've been given logical explanations yet you choose to stonewall.

You think making someone so afraid that they basically choose to reveal something which puts their future at stake via just a gaze is completely natural. I never found any actual proofing behind your words and that's one of the reasons I refuse to believe you. I asked for proofs, you didn't give any. If you still don't want to, say so and move on.

 

[Vzearr]

You think making someone so afraid that they basically choose to reveal something which puts their future at stake via just a gaze is completely natural. I never found any actual proofing behind your words and that's one of the reasons I refuse to believe you. I asked for proofs, you didn't give any. If you still don't want to, say so and move on.

You're asking for proof that you can intimidate people to reveal important things with your gaze ? Seriously ?

 

[XxZetsuxX]

You're asking for proof that you can intimidate people to reveal important things with your gaze ? Seriously ?

Yeah, You need to show proof

You are basically saying fiction and reality are the same, Considering you think people can scare others and make them reveal their deepest fears and insecurities with just gaze alone when bullying didn't do the trick

 

[XxZetsuxX]

bump

 

[XxZetsuxX]

bump?

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Vz kinda seems like an AH now but anyways i agree with the OP

 

[Vzearr]

Vz kinda seems like an AH now but anyways i agree with the OP

What.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

bump

 

[XxZetsuxX]

bump

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

looks good

 

[XxZetsuxX]

bump

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

Zetsu working hard

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Zetsu working hard

You bet

 

[XxZetsuxX]

bump

 

[XxZetsuxX]

bump

 

[DonkeySlayer06]

Regarding Prime Ayanokoji, Ayanokoji said that he became physically weak after being enlisted in ANHS. There is no information about Ayanokoji falling behind in terms of general intelligence or knowledge, and it is even stated that Ayanokoji has acquired an incredible amount of knowledge on social issues. I agree with the other parts, it makes sense.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Regarding Prime Ayanokoji, Ayanokoji said that he became physically weak after being enlisted in ANHS. There is no information about Ayanokoji falling behind in terms of general intelligence or knowledge, and it is even stated that Ayanokoji has acquired an incredible amount of knowledge on social issues. I agree with the other parts, it makes sense.

So i just remove the "except social influence (Manipulation)"?

 

[DonkeySlayer06]

So i just remove the "except social influence (Manipulation)"?

So that's not exactly what I meant. Prime Ayanokoji is no different from Current Ayanokoji in terms of general intelligence. In fact, Current Ayanokoji is more knowledgeable than Prime Ayanokoji because his social skills have increased in terms of knowledge. What I mean is, I think the part where Prime Koji is superior to Current Koji is Physical abilities.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

So that's not exactly what I meant. Prime Ayanokoji is no different from Current Ayanokoji in terms of general intelligence. In fact, Current Ayanokoji is more knowledgeable than Prime Ayanokoji because his social skills have increased in terms of knowledge. What I mean is, I think the part where Prime Koji is superior to Current Koji is Physical abilities.

Ok

 

[RoggerReggor]

I agree with the above, it has been mentioned directly in Volume 0 that Ayanokouji doesn't forget things and had a perfect memory, to the point where when his memory was tested, it was found that he never forgot anything he learnt, so his knowledge doesn't even perish throughout years but always keeps increasing.

And I think that we should also remove the weakness of him having fewer social skills. His social skills now are on par with the top students. He can even read them and maintain a higher composure with them (as we saw his conversation with Arisu). In fact, in Year 2 Volume 1, he himself was trying to make a reputation of him. He has all the class leaders under his direct control and even the student council presidents are wary of him now. His social skills and influence are legit too overpowered now, it is just that the common students don't know about him.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Qawsed, We need you here ;-; (Bump)

​

 

[XxZetsuxX]

bump

 

[XxZetsuxX]

bump