Classroom Of The Elite - White Room Training Concept CRT - Part 1

[XxZetsuxX]

So, I made this CRT because i think the Cote verse is in dire need of revisions and is kinda outdated, So i will do my best to put the verse up to date, I will seperate this into 4 Parts

This was made with the help of @RoggerReggor and @Zefra3011

So, The first update is as the title says, I will add a White Room Training concept;

All White Room Kids will have this

Staff Votes;

Staff Agrees - KingTempest, LephyrTheRevanchist

Staff Disagrees - KingTempest (Resistence to Fear manip), LephyrTheRevanchist (Resistence to Fear manip)

Staff Neutrals -

 

[RoggerReggor]

So, I made this CRT because i think the Cote verse is in dire need of revisions and is kinda outdated, So i will do my best to put the verse up to date, I will seperate this into 3 Parts

This was made with the help of @RoggerReggor and @Zefra3011

So, The first update is as the title says, I will add a White Room Training concept;

All White Room Kids will have this

Staff Votes;

Staff Agrees -

Staff Disagrees -

Staff Neutrals -

Umm, sorry for doing this now because I never noticed when we were revising.

Weapon Mastery should be for Fourth Generation till level 10 imo.

Agree with the thread, pretty obvious.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Umm, sorry for doing this now because I never noticed when we were revising.

Weapon Mastery should be for Fourth Generation till level 10 imo.

Agree with the thread, pretty obvious.

I will fix it

 

[Dinozxd]

So, disagree with Supernatural Willpower and Limited Resistance to Fear Manipulation.

Supernatural Willpower should only given to characters when there is actually something supernatural about their Pain Tolerance. White Room subjects resisting beatings from Instructors means they have Good Pain Tolerance where them resisting rhe mental tortures just means that they have good willpower. I don't see anything supernatural here.

Same pretty much goes to Resistence Fear Manipulation. Instructors don't have Fear Manipulation. It's stupid for subjects to have Resistence to it. They just resisted some good old Social Influence. That's it.

Agree with everything else though.

Edit: I just realized that the scan presented for Superhuman Physical Characteristics miss the definition of the ability by a lot. Improving human abilities doesn't get you Superhuman Physical Characteristics. That's just developing lol.

 

[RoggerReggor]

So, disagree with Supernatural Willpower and Limited Resistance to Fear Manipulation.

Supernatural Willpower should only given to characters when there is actually something supernatural about their Pain Tolerance. White Room subjects resisting beatings from Instructors means they have Good Pain Tolerance where them resisting rhe mental tortures just means that they have good willpower. I don't see anything supernatural here.

Many characters on the wiki have this. Albeit I know that supernatural willpower is a complex ability, was the peak human willpower revision accepted? If yes, then this can be changed to peak human willpower.

Secondly, White Room subjects are around 4-year-olds at this age, which is why this feat is more important.

Same pretty much goes to Resistence Fear Manipulation. Instructors don't have Fear Manipulation. It's stupid for subjects to have Resistence to it. They just resisted some good old Social Influence. That's it.

Yeah, that's a part of the reason it is "Limited", because characters don't feel emotions and fear, they were conventionally trained to do so, which involved them going through various scenarios. The degree of fear manipulation also matters.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Supernatural Willpower should only given to characters when there is actually something supernatural about their Pain Tolerance. White Room subjects resisting beatings from Instructors means they have Good Pain Tolerance where them resisting rhe mental tortures just means that they have good willpower. I don't see anything supernatural here.

They are abused on a daily basis to the point they have barely anytime to breathe, They are made to get up after being severely injured and tired, Moreover there are times when they have heart/Panic attacks during said trainings where some have overcome that by persevering in that harsh training

Not to mention they are constantly studying every single day, They are both mentally and physically tired from beatings and study on a daily basis

Same pretty much goes to Resistence Fear Manipulation. Instructors don't have Fear Manipulation. It's stupid for subjects to have Resistence to it. They just resisted some good old Social Influence. That's it.

The white room legit tried to make them not feel fear by constantly putting them in situations that are scary for children, Beatings on a daily basis for example

 

[RoggerReggor]

A clear thing which is important to be stated is that the characters aren't getting Limited Resistance to Fear Inducement because they were able to resist someone with Fear Manipulation, they are getting it for having strong narratives on their side.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Edit: I just realized that the scan presented for Superhuman Physical Characteristics miss the definition of the ability by a lot. Improving human abilities doesn't get you Superhuman Physical Characteristics. That's just developing lol.

Being able to open a small hole from a steel elevator is not good enough for you?

 

[Dinozxd]

was the peak human willpower revision accepted? If yes, then this can be changed to peak human willpower.

Can you send me the link of the thread so I can look more into it?

Yeah, that's a part of the reason it is "Limited", because characters don't feel emotions and fear, they were conventionally trained to do so, which involved them going through various scenarios. The degree of fear manipulation also matters.

The problem is that resisting Fear Manipulation is very different than simply not getting scared of people that try to scare you. Not feeling emotions such as fear don't qualify for Resistence to Fear Manip as it's nothing supernatural. Limited Fear Manip can't be used here as the feat doesn't fit the definition of Fear Manipulation in any way.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Being able to open a small hole from a steel elevator is not good enough for you?

Don't worry. The fact that they are all superior to Ibuki is enough lol.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Don't worry. The fact that they are all superior to Ibuki is enough lol.

XD

 

[Zefra3011]

I don't see anything supernatural here.

Is not necessary, that's the point.

 

[Dinozxd]

Being able to open a small hole from a steel elevator is not good enough for you?

Not a one hundred percent valid statement sadly. I also said that the scan presented didn't match the definition. I agree with 4th gen students having Superhuman Physical characteristics as they are narratively above any human but not 5th gen.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Can you send me the link of the thread so I can look more into it?

Here you go.

The problem is that resisting Fear Manipulation is very different than simply not getting scared of people that try to scare you. Not feeling emotions such as fear don't qualify for Resistence to Fear Manip as it's nothing supernatural. Limited Fear Manip can't be used here as the feat doesn't fit the definition of Fear Manipulation in any way.

Of course, if the Fear Manipulation another character has is up to a varying degree which cannot be overcome with a psychological make up alone, then the guys would feel fear, but the thing wouldn't happen if they are not up to a certain degree. That's my point.

 

[Dinozxd]

Don't worry. The fact that they are all superior to Ibuki is enough lol.

I tired to calc the dent and even got 15 Kj but it got rejected

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Not a one hundred percent valid statement sadly. I also said that the scan presented didn't match the definition. I agree with 4th gen students having Superhuman Physical characteristics as they are narratively above any human but not 5th gen.

Ichika blitzing 2 people in a mortal state?

Ichika creating a mini sonic boom by punching someone?

 

[RoggerReggor]

If you are going to ask me why we are not arguing about Peak human Physical Characteristics and Superhuman Physical Characteristics? So it's simple, we don't need to. The only ones introduced happen to be Shiro, Yuuki, Ichika, Yagami and Ayanokouji. So, this revision is just to give these 5 the abilities they deserve. Of course, exceptions do exist, there would be subjects with just failing on lower levels on the White Room. In that case, the blog wouldn't apply to them.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Ichika blitzing 2 people in a mortal state?

Ichika creating a mini sonic boom by punching someone?

Bro stop saying crap which never got accepted.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Bro stop saying crap which never got accepted.

I'm just saying that is bare minimum superhuman

Can peak humans do that?

 

[RoggerReggor]

I'm just saying that is bare minimum superhuman

Can peak humans do that?

That mini sonic boom thing though.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

That mini sonic boom thing though.

Did i misunderstood then?

My bad, I will apologize

 

[RoggerReggor]

Did i misunderstood then?

My bad, I will apologize

Umm, she didn't create a mini sonic boom. While the scans say that, that might just be a mistranslation.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Umm, she didn't create a mini sonic boom. While the scans say that, that might just be a mistranslation.

I see

 

[Dinozxd]

Here you go.

It looks like the thread got rejected tbh. I still have my disagreement on this topic.

Of course, if the Fear Manipulation another character has is up to a varying degree which cannot be overcome with a psychological make up alone, then the guys would feel fear, but the thing wouldn't happen if they are not up to a certain degree. That's my point.

The thing is that any fear that is natural can be overcome with a good mental strength (which is how the White Room kids did overcome it). That's the reason why Johan Liebert has Social Influence rather than Fear Manip or Resistence to Fear Manip. I'm okay with giving wr kids Social Influence but anything above that like fear manipulation seems wrong.

 

[DeltaStriker22]

Agree with everything.

 

[Dinozxd]

If you are going to ask me why we are not arguing about Peak human Physical Characteristics and Superhuman Physical Characteristics? So it's simple, we don't need to. The only ones introduced happen to be Shiro, Yuuki, Ichika, Yagami and Ayanokouji. So, this revision is just to give these 5 the abilities they deserve. Of course, exceptions do exist, there would be subjects with just failing on lower levels on the White Room. In that case, the blog wouldn't apply to them.

Yes I was gonna say the same. The page explicitly states that characters that are implied to be significantly above average humans can have Superhuman Characteristics so that's why I think these characters should have them. The scan presented in the blog post doesn't fit the definition though.

 

[RoggerReggor]

It looks like the thread got rejected tbh. I still have my disagreement on this topic.

Maybe. But will mention many things.

Yuuki needed medical treatments and supervision for like 5 years to go around the trauma given by the White Room.

Ayanokouji himself said "even if she didn't die", which basically implies the difficulty of the White Room. Children can even die once they drop out, simply because of the multiple reasons Zetsu stated, like breathing problems, blood vomits, and stuff.

Her body even went to tremble when she remembered White Room again.

Yuuki herself said that Ayanokouji should have stopped that feeling.

Bro you sure such level of insanity can be overcome with simple willpower? And that too when they are kids and no possible therapy can treat them?

The thing is that any fear that is natural can be overcome with a good mental strength (which is how the White Room kids did overcome it). That's the reason why Johan Liebert has Social Influence rather than Fear Manip or Resistence to Fear Manip. I'm okay with giving wr kids Social Influence but anything above that like far manipulation seems wrong.

Uh, might need to ask staff about this.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

If mind breaking is included, How about we add limited resistence to mind manipulation

 

[Dinozxd]

Bro you sure such level of insanity can be overcome with simple willpower? And that too when they are kids and no possible therapy can treat them?

I don't see anything worthy tbh. Just kids being able to fight trauma without the help of anyone. This suggests that they have very good Emotional Management and mental strength.

If mind breaking is included, How about we add limited resistence to mind manipulation

Erm, how about no.

 

[RoggerReggor]

I don't see anything worthy tbh. Just kids being able to fight trauma without the help of anyone. This suggests that they have very good Emotional Management and mental strength.

Don't ignore the fact that the White Room has resulted into fatalities as Ayanokouji said.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Erm, how about no.

Atleast Ayanokoji who was breezing through the WR

 

[Dinozxd]

In conclusion, fighting through emotional difficulties and pain doesn't and shouldn't get a character Supernatural Willpower as It's explainable through natural factors.

 

[Zefra3011]

Supernatural Willpower should only given to characters when there is actually something supernatural about their Pain Tolerance. White Room subjects resisting beatings from Instructors means they have Good Pain Tolerance where them resisting rhe mental tortures just means that they have good willpower. I don't see anything supernatural here.

In conclusion, fighting through emotional difficulties and pain doesn't and shouldn't get a character Supernatural Willpower as It's explainable through natural factors.

Supernatural Willpower:

• "the ability to exceed one's own limits through sheer willpower to a degree extremely far beyond real human standards"
• "Characters with this ability may be able to resist enormous amounts of pain"

Based on the scans and the justification for it these kids lived in hell for several years and in order to survive it they needed to actually adapt to this hell, they were exhausted in any possible way and they were constantly beat up, kids actually almost touched death here and they adapt to it to continue their training, how this doesn't fit the definitions above?

Is not the same thing as fear inducement when it needs to derive from a supernatural source, supernatural willpower is simply go beyond normal limits because you want it and that's kinda it, surviving a living hell for years is more than enough lol.

 

[Zefra3011]

The thing is that any fear that is natural can be overcome with a good mental strength (which is how the White Room kids did overcome it). That's the reason why Johan Liebert has Social Influence rather than Fear Manip or Resistence to Fear Manip. I'm okay with giving wr kids Social Influence but anything above that like fear manipulation seems wrong.

If you can't feel fear or at least you are able to ignore it you have resistance lol, both social influence and fear inducement work on the fear but if my character can actually control/resist it why it should it only work by social influence when fear inducement still works on that same thing you are able to control/resist, is like saying a character who can resist to natural fire can't resist to fire generated by a mage when they are the same thing.

 

[Dinozxd]

Is not the same thing as fear inducement when it needs to derive from a supernatural source, supernatural willpower is simply go beyond limits because you want it and that's kinda it, surviving a living hell for years is more than enough lol.

You can see how the characters who get Supernatural Willpower are able to create shockwaves, illusions, ressurect from death and straight up absorb life force with willpower alone lol. Where the definition of the ability partially matches with the character's feats, I don't think the characters fit the ability itself. It's kinda how all characters who can scare people don't get Fear Manipulation.

If you can't feel fear or at least you are able to ignore it you have resistance lol, both social influence and fear inducement work on the fear but if my character can actually control/resist it why it should it only work by social influence when fear inducement still works on that same thing you are able to control/resist, is like saying a character who can resist to natural fire can't resist to fire generated by a mage when they are the same thing.

Aura page:

The ability to have energy envelop the user. It can be used (consciously or subconsciously) for various purposes (such as intimidation). This covers supernatural abilities only, natural effects fall under Social Influencing.

Fear Manipulation page:

It should be noted simply terrorizing the opponent either by authority, strength or demeanour only would qualify as Social Influencing, as Fear Manipulation would allow the user to inflict fear regardless of these factors.

Again, not feeling natural fear doesn't make you resistant to supernatural fear. Fear Manipulation and Social Influence isn't the same thing. Therefore, It shouldn't grant you the same resistance as well.

 

[Zefra3011]

You can see how the characters who get Supernatural Willpower are able to create shockwaves, illusions, ressurect from death and straight up absorb life force with willpower alone lol. Where the definition of the ability partially matches with the character's feats, I don't think the characters fit the ability itself. It's kinda how all characters who can scare people don't get Fear Manipulation.

Uh.... wait, are you saying they don't have the hax while what they did actually matches the definition but since they can't create shock waves or do other cool things which has nothing to do with it, or at least not directly, then it doesn't count? what's the difference between surpassing your limit surviving between life and death regularly each day while you are extremely tired or create a shockwave with willpower? like what? Yes, there are characters who have a stronger supernatural willpower than others like Adam from record of ragnarock who can still fight after being dead, so? Just because it's a lower level but the feats should grant him that hax we will ignore it?

Again, not feeling natural fear doesn't make you resistant to supernatural fear. Fear Manipulation and Social Influence isn't the same thing. Therefore, It shouldn't grant you the same resistance as well.

You simply repeat what you said at the start, both social influence and fear inducement works on fear which is a single thing, and you still ignore it's limited in this specific case, let's assume there is a a character who can supernaturally increase the level of fear you have and it's on the same degree of the fear they already experienced in the white room, in this case they are able to resist it by still fighting because it's something they already overcome, they can ignore it an fight regularly because that fear is nothing wrong for them instead assuming there is a character who can increase your fear without limit then of course this resistance s not enough and that's why it's limited.
'll make the example I did again, if I can resist natural fire without getting burned I can resist even magic fire unless that magic fire isn't specifically different, social influence and fear at the end have the same exact result as fear is only one thing, you are trying to say the fear is different just because has been increased by a supernatural source when a social influence does the same exact thing but by staring at you and because they have a big name, there is no differece, you are saying there is it because yes, you only explained when we give social influence and when we give fear inducement which is not really relevant.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Quoting from Roronoa Zoro's profile (I believe it is reliable as it is used as an example for the ability, and also because Zoro's profile is an incredibly revised and accurate profile):

Supernatural Willpower (Zoro can form tangible illusions from his will alone, can survive injuries that would normally kill a human just by his willpower)

Just like Zoro could survive physical injuries that would normally kill a human, WR students could survive mental stress, which according to Ayanokouji, could potentially even kill them. The WR students aren't your teenagers which you see in anime, they are like 9-year-olds who are tortured, given treatments, and disposed if they don't meet the expectations.

According to Yuki's father, Yuki took multiple therapies and never left hospital once she left the White Room. In fact, the only reason why Yuki decided or wanted to meet Ayanokouji was because she apparently felt that Ayanokouji was suffocating in the facility, looking for something which he deserved but was never given, so, if she saw that a White Room student was satisfied (which we know that is only applicable to Ayanokouji), then it was believed that Yuki would somehow recover. She wanted just a single conversation with Ayanokouji. But, that's the part of her therapy, I will not dive into it much further.

Scan of Yuki never leaving hospital and her home and never making social contact after being thrown out of White Room:

Plus, taking the physical stress? Yuki was unable to get and collapsed suddenly and randomly. For more information, she wasn't feeling any kind of exhaustion or pain, she just randomly collapsed.

Of course, the part of the reason why this happened was because Yuki was unable to keep up with the White Room regime, but it is clear that the White Room training can do extreme things such as inducement of physical paralysis in some parts of the body.

A girl of age 4 was kicked like a football, without any kind of mercy. She was kicked so hard that she vomited all around, but still was hurt more and more.

Also, to prove that this is completely normal, you will need to find out real-life stories, getting the best information and then making claims. To the best of my knowledge, no kid would endure this pain or shouldn't be put through such pain. On top of everything else, we still have this statement from Ayanokouji where he himself mentioned that he had actually expect Yuki to basically die:

 

[Dinozxd]

Uh.... wait, are you saying they don't have the hax while what they did actually matches the definition but since they can't create shock waves or do other cool things which has nothing to do with it, or at least not directly, then it doesn't count? what's the difference between surpassing your limit surviving between life and death regularly each day while you are extremely tired or create a shockwave with willpower? like what? Yes, there are characters who have a stronger supernatural willpower than others like Adam from record of ragnarock who can still fight after being dead, so? Just because it's a lower level but the feats should grant him that hax we will ignore it?

You have to ask a staff member about this. I remember that a character getting Supernatural Willpower was rejected because It was explainable through natural factors.

You simply repeat what you said at the start, both social influence and fear inducement works on fear which is a single thing, and you still ignore it's limited in this specific case, let's assume there is a a character who can supernaturally increase the level of fear you have and it's on the same degree of the fear they already experienced in the white room, in this case they are able to resist it by still fighting because it's something they already overcome, they can ignore it an fight regularly because that fear is nothing wrong for them instead assuming there is a character who can increase your fear without limit then of course this resistance s not enough and that's why it's limited.
'll make the example I did again, if I can resist natural fire without getting burned I can resist even magic fire unless that magic fire isn't specifically different, social influence and fear at the end have the same exact result as fear is only one thing, you are trying to say the fear is different just because has been increased by a supernatural source when a social influence does the same exact thing but by staring at you and because they have a big name, there is no differece, you are saying there is it because yes, you only explained when we give social influence and when we give fear inducement which is not really relevant.

The difference is that Social Influence can be resisted without actually resisting fear itself. You can counter demanour with demanour, authority with authority, strength with strength.

Again, you should ask this to a staff member.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Ok, are we legit treating the fear induced with fear inducement as superior to the fear induced with social influencing? That would be when you would make sense. Apparently, both induce the same feeling, so it would be best for staff to say the conclusion.

 

[Dinozxd]

Ok, are we legit treating the fear induced with fear inducement as superior to the fear induced with social influencing? That would be when you would make sense. Apparently, both induce the same feeling, so it would be best for staff to say the conclusion.

I already explained it. It's straight up aganist wiki standards about Fear Inducement.