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Cardfight Vanguard Profiles?

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Just so I wot forget, I have an important question regarding the Aquaforce and the other clans pre S3. And of course take your time if you have other things to attend to.
 
TISSG7Redgrave said:
What question? @Kukui
Click to expand...
Okay. So regarding the Aquaforce, I am aware that we agreed to place them at Country to Continent Level for having power over the oceans. This applies to them Pre-Time Skip and Post- Time Skip when they get revived and powered by the Void.

Now, at the moment, I am working on properly scaling the Units to whatever tier they should be placed in throughout the franchise and the problem I've currently hit is this:

Should the Units from other Clans scale towards the Aquaforce Pre S3?

With the exception of their Grade, the other clans of Cray were, at a time, portrayed as weaker than the Aquaforce. The Aquaforce were well known as a Legendary Clan and they were in fact the very strongest clan on Planet Cray before the Void captured them. In other words, this is the Pre-Time Skip Aquaforce being>>>>all the other clans on Cray.

Then, once the Void did capture them, they were missing from the Vanguard world for a long period of time, long enough to be well forgetton and just thought of as a legend (which caused the people of Soryu to go into hiding and be forgotton as well). The time period may not be exact, but, since the clan had been gone during Leon and the others childhood, and got revived when Leon was in his teens, they were missing for a least a dozen years. And during that time, the other clans could have gotton stronger than they were before the Void took away the Aquaforce. So as such, I am not sure if the other clans should scale towards/equal/higher than the Aquaforce at some points.

Do you have any input that could help? It would really help with scaling them properly.
 
hmmm ok so let me see before the aqua force (pre-vanish) were like >>>all other clans post-vanish they are equal to the gold paladins at S2 though eventually platina ezel turned the tide. So if it was season one cards aqua force would probably be stronger then all the clans but eventually clans like Gold Paladin caught up

Pre-Vanish: Aqua Force>>>>>>>>>>>>All other clans

Post-Vanish S2: Gold Paladin> Aqua Force

Considering that all clans evolve over time and Aqua Force is still superior to most then they should have improved as well at least in S2

I hope this helps
 
Kk I think that does. Alright so lets now take this one step at a time.

First for Pre-Vanish.

Since Pre-Vanish Aquaforce>>>>>all other clans, should the other clans still scale towards them? As in, despite being weaker, clans like Royal Paladin, Shadow Paladin, Kagero, etc. shouldnt be that much weaker than the Aquaforce? If so, then we can have 2 keys for the main Vanguard units bases. Lets use Blaster Blade for example.

Pre-Timeskip Base | Post-Timeskip Base

Pre-Timeskip Base is the key for the Units before the series started. As in, how strong they were back in the past when Aquaforce was still around.

Post Timeskip Base is the key for the Units after the series started. It will cover both Seasons 1 + 2.

So for their tiers, I thought of this:

"Ranges from Small Country to Continent Level (Despite being weaker, it is a Grade 2 Royal Paladin so it should not be that weaker than the Aquaforce, who have power over the Oceans) | At Least Country to Continent Level (Should be stronger than Pre-Vanish Aquaforce along with the other Royal Paladins by the beginning of the VF Circuit arc), Planet Level, Likely Higher (Is comparable to Blond Ezel, who was able to easily vanquish part of The Void away from Planet Cray after defeating Possessed Leon)

So, going by Blaster Blade Example, this is what the Pre and Post Timeskip base keys would look like and this works for Blaster Blade since up to S2 his base form can match Units like Ezel.

See any issues with the proposal?
 
nope i got no real problems with the proposal but maybe Ezel should be straight up planet and put at least cause it was casual for him me thinks
 
Also I found a new statement regarding Link Joker. Apprently Link Joker is "The Destroyer of Worlds and Galaxies" from what Reversed Korin says. Since she was reversed when saying this her word should be considered at least for having some of Link Jokers power. And since Link Joker is the Voids Avatar, when the Void is tier 3 to tier 2, this doesnt sound too outlandish.

Any issues?
 
Hmmm maybe we can put like at least 5-B likely 3-C due to this statement


What favor? I'll try to do it
 
Alright. *sigh* lol Vanguard is killing us right now but it should be worth it if we can get the verse onto the site.

Anyways, now at the moment I am trying to characterize all the characters and their units. The current issue I am facing with this is that while scoping out the characters Avatar Units, there seems to be evolved forms of these units. Like how theres Blaster Blade and then he evolves into Spirit, Liberator, Seeker, etc.

And as such, it is getting quite difficult to scope out the potential evolved forms of the characters Units, especially when they've never actually got a chance to use them in the show. For now I can handle characters such as Aichi, Kai, and Ren but for characters such as Kamui and Misaki, Its diffcult to scope out their Avatar's higher forms when they have like multiple different Avatars. And then there are characters who have Avatars for different clans because they use more than one specific deck.

So, as for the favor, if you ever have the time and patience to do so, I would very much appreciate the help if you could scope out the characters Avatars and see if they have any higher up forms I can add to their future profiles. Again, this is completely optional and not required as you are already doing so much for the verse currently and with your real-world things to do, so I'll understand if you cannot assist this much.
 
the evolved forms should have an at least such as this:


AP: Whatever tier (sample) | At least blah blah tier (Superior to his first form) and so forth

Key: S1 | Spirit | Liberator | Seeker | Star-vader | Current

However the intangibility hax will be removed for the other forms as they don't have that and such. So it depends if they retain that hax or not

For Misaki and Kamui if their avatars change it means that unit should be superior to the previous one.

Let me try to list the characters avatars(though I will need to dig a lot in the vanguard wiki as they mention the avatars)
 
Oh Ik thats what im doing (or planning on doing) for their keys lol.

Everything here is in my intention for their pages I just need assistance in finding any potential evolved forms the Units may have. Like how there are some for Blaster Blade and Dragonic Overlord.

I could give you a list of the MC's avatars and then you could try finding their evolved forms (if they have any) if that helps? (Ex: I give you the name of Asuka's avatar from the Pale Moon Circus and you try to find out if that Avatar Unit has any stronger forms we can add to the profiles.)

Also, for your earlier sugesstion. As far as Kamui goes I definitely agree. He has consistently used the Nova Grapplers for the entire series, never switching to any other deck/clan. So whatever Avatar he gets as time passes on should be>>>than the old unit, even if they have no connection to each other as they're apart of the same clan.

But for Misaki, would that work for her? She switches between Oracle Think Tank and Genesis within the series and unless we find a way to prove her Genesis Units>>>her Oracle Think Tank Units they may need to be scaled equal. Would we consider her being on par with Reversed Fighters as a way of proving their superior to her old clan?
 
hmm that's true. Big difference between Yu-gi-oh and Vanguard is that switching clans means issues for vanguard lol

but anyway Genesis should at the very least be the same as Oracle

I may need the list of the avatars and then i can probably find if they have evolved forms
 
Kk. Thank you so much for the help later I'll give you the list.

I have no issue with Genesis scaling equal to OTT but if we can prove they're superior to OTT then they can scale higher
 
np i like the series so yeah lol

Hmm we may need to dig up a lot of things lol
 
TISSG7Redgrave said:
what is the question? Sorry i didn't get notified Lol RIP
Click to expand...
Lol its okay. Anyway the question I would like to ask is, regarding the future profiles of the Cardfighters themselves, are we going to include their full on decks or just there notable units?

I noticed while doing some work on the verse that we have, for example, Yugi in the same fashion as this. Instead of using his whole deck his profile only lists Exodia and the God Cards as notable monsters he can use. So at that point was when I thought that Aichi and the others should get a similar rating.

However, since Vanguard and Yu-Gi-Oh! are almost completely different concepts and card-games, that also has me conflicted. Since the reason why Yugi only has like 4 monsters to use on his profile is because the other monsters in his deck have only shown up as holograms and have never done any notable feats to even be mentioned, let alone get a profile for. The difference between this and Vanguard is that the Units the card-fighters fight with are actually real and the fights pretty much take place on Cray all the time whenever a Card-fight is happening. As in, its not like even the most average units have no power since they do scaling from clans like Aqua Force and whatnot. So I also figured maybe Aichi and the others should be different and actually have a key for their average decks but I wasnt sure what to choose.

If we include the decks then we could make a key saying Aichi is "whatever tier" with his average Royal/Shadow/Gold Paladin deck and then make keys for the individual units like Blaster Blade, Alfred, etc.

If we don't include the decks then the keys for the fighters would just be "whatever tier" with this unit and "wahatever tier" with that unit.

Personally im fine with either one I just can't decide which one should be better. So what do you think would be a better route to take concerning the fighters?
 
hmmm this is tricky AF man. Let me see because all the units in their mother can fight back maybe we should put it like this

Aichi: This Tier with grade 0, Whatever tier with Grade 1, and so forth considering all grades have some sort of feats Though we should put something like 5-B with this unit or something because their avatar tends to be their ace in the hole and most powerful unit of the clan

Just my thoughts though idk if it helped much
 
I see what you mean but the issue with that is any unit the character uses that isn't seen as a G2 or G3 has, at best, average level power. So despite the grade, units from G0 to G1 can generally be equal. G2 wise yes they are strong but only Aichi and Ren are the only ones who have G2 Avatar cards.

So I thought of this after seeing what you put. We already decided to scale most of the clans off of Aqua Force before the Void captured them so why dont we make a key for all of a characters average level units combined and then from that point onward the keys will involve individual avatar units. Heres an example (gonna use Aichi again lol):

"Ranges from Small Country to Small Continent" with an average Royal/Shadow Paladin deck | "At Least Small Country to Small Continent" with Blaster Blade/Blaster Dark (both are G2 Units and are also the soon-to be avatars of Aichi and Ren, so they should be stronger than the average unit of their respective clan.) | Country to Continent Level with an average Royal/Shadow/Gold Paladin deck (should be superior to the Aquaforce before the Void sealed it away after the time-skip.) | Country to Continent Level with the average Gold Paladin deck (is a clan that is at least comparable to the Royal and Shadow Paladins) | "At Least Country to Continent Level" with Blaster Blade/Blaster Dark (both are superior to the average units of their clan, are also G2 units) Planet Level+ with both and Blond Ezel (both are equal to Ezel, who casually did a planet level feat.)

And so on

Keys: Pre-Series decks | Pre-Series Avatar Units | Season 1 decks | Season 2 deck | Season 2 Avatar Units

I could keep going but this should be enough.

So does it look clear?
 
Kk great. Then i'll do the same thing for most of the other characters.

Alright now one last thing for now lol. I typed up stuff that could be put on as a page for the Vanguard verse like how we have one for Yu-Gi-Oh and if you can, i'd appreciate it if I posted it here and you read it to see if it looks good (note: I am going to edit it definitely but I would still like for it to be checked and have a possible opinion for it).

Warning: .....its a long read xD. So if you don't feel up to it I completely understand.
 
I warned you lol. And the funny part is that I didnt even complete it yet xD I still have to type the Scaling Rules.

JK its absolutely no problem. Take your time with this
 
I can see the scaling rule is still pending…I think the wikis can't handle the sheer overload of what you will type XD
 
Lmfao fr.

Tho to be fair I typed this up in Microsoft Word so I wasnt aware it would look like that once I posted it onto the Wiki. It's supposed to look shorter than it is tbh.
 
btw here are the Scaling Rules I thought up for Vanguard. I'd edit the earlier comment and include it but IDK if you read it already or not. Anyways, here you go lol:

Due to potential contradictions, inconsistencies and outliers, Vanguard will be given a limited and restricted set of scaling rules. Logically, as we would for any game-related franchise, we are not under any condition going to scale the Units off of each through Point-Values, along with the Card-fighters beating each other through pure game-mechanics.

However, specifically regarding the Units, we have decided that we will scale the Units off of and towards each other through their Grades (from 0 to 4) as no Unit from, let's say the Grade 1 tier, should be superior or even equal to Units from the Grade 3 tier (unless it is very specific cases in which a lower grade unit that is highly notable is capable of contending with higher grade units. This is best shown through Blaster Blade's rivalry with Dragonic Overlord, being consistently on his level, just as Aichi and Kai are consistently comparable to one another, despite being a lower grade Unit than Dragonic Overlord). Although, to prevent random Units who are completely unimportant and have no value to the series whatsoever from being automatically placed at tiers along with the Units who ARE notable and important, we have decided that Units will ONLY get their own profiles, IF:

  • They are being used to scale for Units, such as If a Grade 1 Unit performs a hypersonic speed feat and it gets scaled to comparable/superior Units. Or more specifically, if a Unit such as Blaster Blade performs a Mountain Level feat against Dragonic Overlord and that gets scaled.
OR

  • They are Units who are very notable and have importance within the franchise. Such as Units who are considered "Avatars" to notable Card-Fighters, Units who are part of lore, or Units that are consistently used by their fighters.
Any Unit that does not fit this criteria will never get their own profile to be looked at and used in Vs Battles (However, any Unit, Notable or not, IS capable of being listed/part of the Card fighters profiles who will have keys for their decks.). In addition, this rule will also apply for the Card-Fighters. Any Card-Fighter who is highly notable and has consistently improved throughout the series such as Aichi Sendou, Toshiki Kai, Kamui Tatsuragi and Misaki Tokura, are perfectly capable of having their own pages. But as for Joke/Side characters like Katsumi Morikawa, Yuta Izaki, and Nagisa Daimonji will not be creditable enough to have pages.

Furthermore, in contrast to the mechanic rule above, we have also decided that as far as the Triggers in Vanguard go, only the Heal and Critical Triggers will count as powers and abilities for the units. Stand Triggers being able to allow units to "stand" is considered game mechanics and has no correlation nor place in a Vs Battle. Draw Triggers do allow Units to "draw" or summon other Units for them to call or use for their own use during fights but since all Units have Summoning Hax regardless, it is likely redundant to include a power they already possess.

Note 1: Despite it being a continuation of the Original Series and not a separate franchise, due to potential confusions and inconsistencies, Vanguard G may be required to have their own separate system of scaling and not scale towards the original characters until that of GIRS Crisis and beyond until further notice is given.

Note 2: Although both are card-game related series, it would be our best option to not compare the likes of Cardfight Vanguard with Yu-Gi-Oh! In future upgrade, downgrade and revision threads as both are completely different concepts with little to no connection to each other at all and it will be an annoyance to everyone with using one or the other as examples and/or mentioned topics in any argument trying to cause changes for the verses.

Supporters:

ProfessorKukui4Life

TISSG7Redgrave

Darkanine

Shining Trapezohedro

Opponents:

Neutral:
 
I have finished reading the first post and the recent post and I see no problem in them at all. But my head still hurts LEL. Worth it
 
TISSG7Redgrave said:
I have finished reading the first post and the recent post and I see no problem in them at all. But my head still hurts LEL. Worth it
Click to expand...
PHEW! Glad that was over with lol, If there's no issues then I guess the summary for the verse page is officially completed. Now all thats left to do is scale and then make profiles for all the units and fighters......which will be a pain in the a** to do lol but worth it.

Luckily I already started rewatching Legion Mate so we're getting there. But once rewatching the first gen is done, we should wait to scale and make profiles for the G characters and units until we've rewatched the entire G series. So for now we'll only make profiles for the original gen once we get to that bridge.
 
Update: While rewatching Legion Mate i've found some good feats.

For one, Aichi now has High Level Memory Manipulation as he was capable of making everyone in the verse (except for Kai) forget him as if he never even existed. And erasing their memories also caused World-Changing events. Such as the Cardfight club from his high school never being made, Naoki forgetting how to play Vanguard, Morikawa and Izaki not joining their Cardfight club, Emi being an only child, etc.

Secondly, another new feat comes from the Quarte Knights. They're capable of teleporting and creating Pocket Dimensions called Prisons where which they cardight and are also capable of causing "Judgement" onto the losing fighter. In other words, grant the opposing fighter all of the damage their Vanguard has taken (however I am very unsure about this one, it may be massive PIS)

and thats it for now.
 
Update:

After seeing Ratie Curti fight Misaki and Kotei, it seems her Shadow Paladins have an interesting unique ability. She has the ability to switch out an opponents rear guards and make them grade 0's.

So basically she and her units have Battlefield Removal Manipulation, which personally I think is a very useful hax lol.
 
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