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Halo: Master Chief and Spartans' revisions and downgrades

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Qawsedf234 said:
Nah Will just died there.

Additionally Onyx takes place after the Battle for Earth. So wouldn't will have Mark VI?

Though this and First Strike where three brute shot rounds kill a Spartan in Mjolnir armor makes it seem like the Fuel Rod Cannon stuff is Chief having plot armor on.
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Fair enough.

I'm pretty sure it is the MKV, as I recall the Onyx Spartans did not have any opportunity to upgrade like Chief did, members of Blue Team present didn't either.

As for the Brute Shot, that was again, a MKV thing. Nylund's writing downplayed Spartans pretty hard imo, but Halo is wildly inconsistent at times. But regardless, it establishes the MKV and MKIV as highly inferior to its successors.

DarkDragonMedeus said:
That's pretty much the entire premise of John's character. He really was never intended to be seen as much stronger, faster, tougher, or smarter than average Spartan-II's and the only reason he's still alive is pure dumb luck combined with sheer willpower. But he survives stuff that usually kills Spartans outright or in more extreme examples, there tends to be surprise last second plot twists such as a Bubble Shield happening to just mysteriously appear at the last second or in Halo 4's case, it's confirmed in a combination of Halo 5 statement and some books that Cortana simply managed to transport him to safety at the last second to avoid the Havok Nuke.
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I don't think Master Chief is special for this, this is something that can be said about any Protagonist. A lot of primary characters get this treatment.
 
Yeah no, Mark VI is insanely superior to any previous variant of power armor the UNSC has ever constructed except for the original prototype Hrunting Mark 1.
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
Yeah no, Mark VI is insanely superior to any previous variant of power armor the UNSC has ever constructed except for the original prototype Hrunting Mark 1.
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Exactly, and this has been shown consistently. Literally every single one of the new feats, promising, and supporting from 9-B+ to 8-C were in the newer suits, with not a single one being in the MKV or MkIV. I don't think this can be any clearer. Hell, the MkIV doesn't even have shields.

The man in the armory at the start of Halo 2 even says "your new armor shields are extremely resilient", again, implying a significant improvement + faster recharge time.
 
VersusJunkie54 said:
Exactly, and this has been shown consistently. Literally every single one of the new feats, promising, and supporting from 9-B+ to 8-C were in the newer suits, with not a single one being in the MKV or MkIV. I don't think this can be any clearer. Hell, the MkIV doesn't even have shields.

The man in the armory at the start of Halo 2 even says "your new armor shields are extremely resilient", again, implying a significant improvement + faster recharge time.
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It really goes to show how advanced Covenant armor is when the Arbiter armor is considered outdated by Covenant standards yet is comparable to Mark VI.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
The experimental ones given to the Halo Wars dudes had shields tbf
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Yeah Red team is a bit of an exception. Honestly though I have no idea why that game did that, it breaks the established lore of energy shields being reverse-engineered from Jackal shield braces, and this only bearing fruit in 2551 or so.
 
VersusJunkie54 said:
Yeah Red team is a bit of an exception. Honestly though I have no idea why that game did that, it breaks the established lore of energy shields being reverse-engineered from Jackal shield braces, and this only bearing fruit in 2551 or so.
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Speaking of the shield braces I'm surprised they didn't try to just make some of those for regular marines alongside the Spartan shields.
 
Anyway, I just estimated the Guardians destroying Doisac coming out to 253 Zettatons, 5-B individually.
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
Speaking of the shield braces I'm surprised they didn't try to just make some of those for regular marines alongside the Spartan shields.
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I do know in the lore it was common for Spartans and Marines alike to use recovered Jackal shields whenever possible.
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
It really goes to show how advanced Covenant armor is when the Arbiter armor is considered outdated by Covenant standards yet is comparable to Mark VI.
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I feel like that comes with an asterisk. Like there seems to be a difference between high tier Elite armor and the skrubs who get clowned in 40:1 ratios when they're within breathing distance of a Spartan.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
I feel like that comes with an asterisk. Like there seems to be a difference between high tier Elite armor and the skrubs who get clowned in 40:1 ratios when they're within breathing distance of a Spartan.
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The Covenant are established as being imitative rather than innovative. They are also regularly challenged in competency except for select individuals like Thel and R'tas. It's part of the reason why the UNSC could fight for so long.

If the Covenant were competent and innovative, the war would've likely ended at least 15 years earlier.
 
VersusJunkie54 said:
The Covenant are established as being imitative rather than innovative. They are also regularly challenged in competency except for select individuals like Thel and R'tas. It's part of the reason why the UNSC could fight for so long.
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And then you have absolute monsters like Xytan running around up until the Schism.
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
And then you have absolute monsters like Xytan running around up until the Schism.
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He is featless, but we can infer from his size he'd basically be a Sangheili Atriox in power.

I am currently attempting to calculate one of those large explosions made by a Fuel Rod in the H2A terminal, and it should give a more reliable result than the Phantom explosion.
 
VersusJunkie54 said:
He is featless, but we can infer from his size he'd basically be a Sangheili Atriox in power.
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I mean he had to be considering he was a staggering twelve feet tall and was basically considered a demi-god by the Sangheili.
VersusJunkie54 said:
I am currently attempting to calculate one of those large explosions made by a Fuel Rod in the H2A terminal, and it should give a more reliable result than the Phantom explosion.
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Hopefully that gets some good results.
 
Little is known about Xytan, and even the creators have hinted that his height was mostly due to headware and boots; but even without those, we was crazy large and strong for Sangheili standards and heavily implied to be stronger than Fal (Who was in turn crazy strong for Sangheili standards to where even Hunters and Chieftains are put to shame)
 
I regret to say that I don't think I can really calculate the Hunters' armor after all. Once I got into it, I realized I was in over my head, and the constant gaps in the armor makes it too complex and unreliable. It would literally take hours for me to calculate.

I may still be able to calculate Fal and the Giant Hunter at one point since we at least know the mass of normal sized Hunters, but I am considering that a task for another day. Lifting strength would only apply to Fal, and The Didact, with a maybe 9-A KE durability feat from the Hunter's punch.

I'd like us to prioritize these revisions, and my Blog is ready for the Calc Group to evaluate.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
I mean, you can just use the two ton shield + their weight as a minimum figure.
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Where is it stated that their shields are two tons? To be completely honest I have no idea where that figure comes from. Their weight is supposedly all of the Lekgolo worms + their armor.

During the process I did however estimate their shields are around 1350 kilograms.
 
VersusJunkie54 said:
Where is it stated that their shields are two tons?
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Well I actually just found one that's better, since it includes their weight when explicitly armored
VersusJunkie54 said:
Their weight is supposedly all of the Lekgolo worms + their armor.
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I mean if you still don't like it, Halo: Ghosts of Onyx says this:
The oval bridge was empty save for a single Covenant Hunter who miraculously clung to the railing of the command console. Inside the monster's eight-centimeter-thick armor, its body, composed of a colony of eel creatures, had oozed out and freeze dried onto the deck.
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Then you can use statement of plate armor
The blast had knocked Harland and his team into the mud. They ran to where they had left the Lieutenant—found fused glassy mud, a crater, and a few burning corpses and bits of carbonized skeleton.
They saw one other thing—an outline in the mist. It was biped, but much larger than any human Harland had ever seen. And oddly, it looked like it was wearing armor reminiscent of medieval plate mail; it even carried a large, strangely shaped metal shield.
Harland saw the glow of a regenerating plasma weapon … and that’s all he needed to see to order a full speed retreat.
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To eyeball a number.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Well I actually just found one that's better, since it includes their weight when explicitly armored

I mean if you still don't like it, Halo: Ghosts of Onyx says this:

Then you can use statement of plate armor

To eyeball a number.
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Good find, I may have something to work with here.

So we do actually know that their shields are two metric tons, I was wrong to dismiss that point.

So if a single Lekgolo worm is 23 kilograms, and Hunters are 4763 Kilograms....

Not counting their shields, the rest of their mass is 2381.5 kilograms.

The Hunter's other armor is relatively thin at 8 Cm. So I think given their size, we could reasonably estimate they're carrying about 500Kg of armor plate.

1881.5/23 = 82 Lekgolo worms potentially. I guess it would make sense given the size of the worms and how they are wound together tightly. So Hunters may be carrying about 2500Kg of Nanolaminate armor all together.
 
VersusJunkie54 said:
So we do actually know that their shields are two metric tons, I was wrong to dismiss that point
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Well that comes from Halo: Ghosts of Onyx
Kurt stood horrified, frozen, but then instincts and training clicked on full force, and without thinking, he rushed forward before the Hunters could finish his prone teammates. The nearest Hunter turned on him faster than he expected— slicing its two-ton shield into Kurt's solar plexus
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Gives us some solid numbers to square up for Fal yeeting those giant Hunters and practically no-selling a punch from one of them considering his shields didn't even flash.
 
I possibly found a supporting 617.801 megajoule feat from UNSC grenades in Halo Mona Lisa, and added that to my blog.

With this, I think UNSC Grenades should be rated as At Least 9-A+, Likely up to 8-C+ per my two calc for them. I suppose it is consistent with the overall technology increase from the Human-Covenant war period to the Reclaimer period.

I know we want to try and get weapons their own calculation whenever we can, but I think an exception should be made for the SPINKR and Scorpion shell. Both should not be weaker than UNSC grenades, and should scale to them. There is no reason not to do so. The SPINKR and Scorpion shell have no anti feats, and the UNSC is consistent is making incredibly powerful non-nuclear explosives.
 
VersusJunkie54 said:
If accepted, this would scale only to Fal, and The Didact.
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Speaking of nutty scaling, we really should give Spartans and Elites a "Higher with knives/energy daggers" rating since they consistently one-shot much stronger enemies than them in Halo Reach and 4 via Assassinations. Before anyone gets uppity about it being Game Mechanics or whatever Emile while literally on death's door one-shots an Elite Zealot with his Kukri and Chief stabs the Didact's eye out with his own knife so Spartan Knives are consistently really OP for some reason.
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
Speaking of nutty scaling, we really should give Spartans and Elites a "Higher with knives/energy daggers" rating since they consistently one-shot much stronger enemies than them in Halo Reach and 4 via Assassinations. Before anyone gets uppity about it being Game Mechanics or whatever Emile while literally on death's door one-shots an Elite Zealot with his Kukri and Chief stabs the Didact's eye out with his own knife so Spartan Knives are consistently really OP for some reason.
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Piercing Damage been like
 
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