• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Halo: Master Chief and Spartans' revisions and downgrades

Status
Not open for further replies.
Considering the human body is 60% water on average. How about Ionization of water for 60 percent of the mass, and the remaining 40 percent uses human body vaporization value. Actually that would be off since "Average human vaporization" includes water as the main component for why specific heat capacity is that high. So we could calculate both separately and pick which ever gives us the higher result.

Can we use the liters conversion for this as this does list the amount of water in human body?
 
Considering the human body is 60% water on average. How about Ionization of water for 60 percent of the mass, and the remaining 40 percent uses human body vaporization value. Actually that would be off since "Average human vaporization" includes water as the main component for why specific heat capacity is that high. So we could calculate both separately and pick which ever gives us the higher result.
Worth doing in pursuit of as accurate a figure as possible, but what is the energy figure for ionization of water?
 
I have decided to give calculating John giving back the bomb a shot. I'll submit it to the calc group in a bit, but I'd like some thoughts on it, it's been a long time since I calculated anything at all. I attempted to calculate some other things in the same blog.
 
Last edited:
While we wait for calculations to be evaluated (send me any other feats you guys think show promise), I have decided to go and search for abilities, and feats for other characters.

Here is Atriox One-Shotting a Brute Chieftain.

Feat for a non-charged plasma pistol that vaporizes a Drone's head. A charged shot reduces three Grunts to char.

Some ability for the Didact related to perception manipulation. Furthermore, the Didact and another Warrior Servant tear out the furniture of a ship and beat open stasis pods stated to be durable enough to withstand that ship's destruction. Forerunner Ships are frequently massive too,

Light Rifle One-Shots a shielded Elite Zealot.

Spartans can survive up to 38G before blacking out. High G resistance. Master Chief with the help of Kelly manages to hold a block of Granite the size of a warthog above his head as seen here. Some have calculated this rock at being 100 tons, but this cannot be taken at face value.

Master Chief holds down APC sized vehicles and prevents them from crushing him while the ship he is on is doing high G maneuvers.

Another possible lifting strength feat.

Gen 3 Mjolnir has Active camo, though it doesn't work well when moving and is susceptive to thermal/magnetic sensors

Feat for the Gen 3 Mjolnir's endurance, and functionality despite heavy damage, including auto repair systems.

There's also the Grapple hook in the Gen 3 that gives Master Chief some decent surface scaling.

Gen3 Spartans should get a degree of Self-Sustenance as the armor kept Master Chief alive in hivernation while he drifted in space for six months.

Statement for heat resistance.

Regeneration Low for Spartans.

Information Analysis/Analytical Prediction in the MkV.

Fireteam Majestic supposedly tanks the explosion of a spacecraft, but I have no idea how this could be quantified, if at all.

What looks like four UNSC grenades blows up a Covenant Lich.

I might try calculating some of these.
 
While we wait for calculations to be evaluated (send me any other feats you guys think show promise), I have decided to go and search for abilities, and feats for other characters.

Here is Atriox One-Shotting a Brute Chieftain.

Feat for a non-charged plasma pistol that vaporizes a Drone's head. A charged shot reduces three Grunts to char.

Some ability for the Didact related to perception manipulation. Furthermore, the Didact and another Warrior Servant tear out the furniture of a ship and beat open stasis pods stated to be durable enough to withstand that ship's destruction. Forerunner Ships are frequently massive too,

Light Rifle One-Shots a shielded Elite Zealot.

Spartans can survive up to 38G before blacking out. High G resistance. Master Chief with the help of Kelly manages to hold a block of Granite the size of a warthog above his head as seen here. Some have calculated this rock at being 100 tons, but this cannot be taken at face value.

Master Chief holds down APC sized vehicles and prevents them from crushing him while the ship he is on is doing high G maneuvers.

Another possible lifting strength feat.

Gen 3 Mjolnir has Active camo, though it doesn't work well when moving and is susceptive to thermal/magnetic sensors

Feat for the Gen 3 Mjolnir's endurance, and functionality despite heavy damage, including auto repair systems.

There's also the Grapple hook in the Gen 3 that gives Master Chief some decent surface scaling.

Gen3 Spartans should get a degree of Self-Sustenance as the armor kept Master Chief alive in hivernation while he drifted in space for six months.

Statement for heat resistance.

Regeneration Low for Spartans.

Information Analysis/Analytical Prediction in the MkV.

Fireteam Majestic supposedly tanks the explosion of a spacecraft, but I have no idea how this could be quantified, if at all.

What looks like four UNSC grenades blows up a Covenant Lich.

I might try calculating some of these.
That Fireteam Majestic Feat looks like one hell of an outlier if they were actually within it.
 
I've never figured out how to actually make a blog of my own.
It's as simple as clicking on the Blog part of your fandom profile and pressing "Create new blog". I have made profiles before a long time ago.

Source editing can have a bit of a learning curve, but I encourage you to go look at some of the Halo profiles in source mode and study how that all works. We still have quite a bit of time before Revisions even move on to the finalization phase, so go for it.
 
Okay Halo supporters, this is important. More calc group members could dispute the results, but for now this is what we have to work with. In short, Downgrades are seeming unlikely after all.

Blog 1:
  • Master Chief has a legit and casual 9-B+ feat launching from the bomb, and crashing into In Amber Clad, 9.7085271 Megajoules.
  • The Depression John made on his landing is in the low end of 9-A, 30.24122 Megajoules. Keep in mind this fall only locked up his armor, and he was otherwise completely fine with no injuries, or armor damage.
  • The Binary Rifle is no joke. With a yield close to baseline 8-B, 12.73085 tons
Blog 2:
  • A fully charged plasma pistol has been calculated at 626.4390 Megajoules, 9-A and 1.383 Gigajoules, 8-C for another. Remember though that joules of thermal energy /=/ joules of overpressure.
  • The uncharged plasma pistol yields 24.605 Megajoules, 9-A
  • Banshee cannons deal 78.7227 Megajoules, 9-A
  • Master Chief wakes up in a crater after The Didact's shockwave, 1.7923 Gigajoules, 8-C
  • Buck explodes a door with a punch, 572.27995 Megajoules, 9-A.
Blog 3:
  • Casual Ground pound, 21.77976 Megajoules, 9-A
  • Shade Turret firepower, 146.933 Megajoules, 9-A
  • Ripa catches the Slipspace Drive, 11.26720 metric tons. Class 25. KE: 695.073 Kilojoules, Wall Level.
Blog 4:
  • Spartan Laser is still the Grand Champion of Halo Infantry (if you ignore the incineration cannon), 20.0998 tons, 8-B
  • Fuel Rod one shots a Phantom, 18.435 tons, 8-B.
  • UNSC & Covenant Plasma Grenades are OP, 1.4085 tons, 8-C+
Mind you this is all new, not including what we already have on the verse. If you want to dispute these results, that's fine but please do so without arguing from Incredulity, or appealing from a position of Authority.
 
Okay Halo supporters, this is important. More calc group members could dispute the results, but for now this is what we have to work with. In short, Downgrades are seeming unlikely after all.

Blog 1:
  • Master Chief has a legit and casual 9-B+ feat launching from the bomb, and crashing into In Amber Clad, 9.7085271 Megajoules.
  • The Depression John made on his landing is in the low end of 9-A, 30.24122 Megajoules. Keep in mind this fall only locked up his armor, and he was otherwise completely fine with no injuries, or armor damage.
  • The Binary Rifle is no joke. With a yield close to baseline 8-B, 12.73085 tons
Blog 2:
  • A fully charged plasma pistol has been calculated at 626.4390 Megajoules, 9-A and 1.383 Gigajoules, 8-C for another. Remember though that joules of thermal energy /=/ joules of overpressure.
  • The uncharged plasma pistol yields 24.605 Megajoules, 9-A
  • Banshee cannons deal 78.7227 Megajoules, 9-A
  • Master Chief wakes up in a crater after The Didact's shockwave, 1.7923 Gigajoules, 8-C
  • Buck explodes a door with a punch, 572.27995 Megajoules, 9-A.
Blog 3:
  • Casual Ground pound, 21.77976 Megajoules, 9-A
  • Shade Turret firepower, 146.933 Megajoules, 9-A
  • Ripa catches the Slipspace Drive, 11.26720 metric tons. Class 25. KE: 695.073 Kilojoules, Wall Level.
Blog 4:
  • Spartan Laser is still the Grand Champion of Halo Infantry (if you ignore the incineration cannon), 20.0998 tons, 8-B
  • Fuel Rod one shots a Phantom, 18.435 tons, 8-B.
  • UNSC & Covenant Plasma Grenades are OP, 1.4085 tons, 8-C+
Mind you this is all new, not including what we already have on the verse. If you want to dispute these results, that's fine but please do so without arguing from Incredulity, or appealing from a position of Authority.
Once we get those feats from Legends looked at then these will be even more consistent.
 
Once we get those feats from Legends looked at then these will be even more consistent.
I also may have something for the Scorpion Cannon and the SPINKR. Both can fragment those Covenant deployable watchtowers in 1 shot, and I plan to calculate the volume and mass of those towers tonight actually.

I also plan to revisit the Wraith calc. At the time it only assumed vaporization of 300 Grunts or something, but it ignores how it reduced Wraiths to "skeletons". The one who calculated that understandably kept it simple at the time, but I intend to work it out if possible.
 
Blog 4:
  • Spartan Laser is still the Grand Champion of Halo Infantry (if you ignore the incineration cannon), 20.0998 tons, 8-B
  • Fuel Rod one shots a Phantom, 18.435 tons, 8-B.
  • UNSC & Covenant Plasma Grenades are OP, 1.4085 tons, 8-C+
I actually wrote concerns for the Fuel Rod Destroying the Phantom, with grenades being a maybe. 8-B Spartan Laser is looking good though.
 
I also may have something for the Scorpion Cannon and the SPINKR. Both can fragment those Covenant deployable watchtowers in 1 shot, and I plan to calculate the volume and mass of those towers tonight actually.
Maybe we can get something from the Scarabs too, I think I recall one utterly obliterating some vehicles or some structures at one point. There's also the fact that these things can fall out of the sky completely unharmed in both Halo 3 and Halo Wars 2 yet can be damaged by heavy weapons like Scorpions, SPINKRs, Spartan Lasers, Hornet missiles, Fuel Rod Cannons, Banshee Bombs, etc.
 
Maybe we can get something from the Scarabs too, I think I recall one utterly obliterating some vehicles or some structures at one point. There's also the fact that these things can fall out of the sky completely unharmed in both Halo 3 and Halo Wars 2 yet can be damaged by heavy weapons like Scorpions, SPINKRs, Spartan Lasers, Hornet missiles, Fuel Rod Cannons, Banshee Bombs, etc.
Scarabs are already 8-A in AP if I remember correctly.
 
Scarabs are already 8-A in AP if I remember correctly.
We don't have a profile for them and I don't remember where their rating comes from, especially since it could even be outdated. Even though they should just share a profile with the Hunters since they're literally just Uber Sized Mgalekgolo Mechs.
 
We don't have a profile for them and I don't remember where their rating comes from, especially since it could even be outdated. Even though they should just share a profile with the Hunters since they're literally just Uber Sized Mgalekgolo Mechs.
You're right, Scarabs should share the Hunter's profile, albeit with one of those tabbers to seperate them.

I actually wrote concerns for the Fuel Rod Destroying the Phantom, with grenades being a maybe. 8-B Spartan Laser is looking good though.
Aside from our back and fourth on the blog, I've been busy since you last posted here and you missed all of the fun.

I plan to do more calculations though, specifically for the Scorpion and the SPINKR. Both can one-shot (it might be two for the SPINKR) fragment those Covenant deployable watchtowers, so that could be promising. It is Gameplay, but it is not directly contradicted by anything in a cutscene or novel so it shouldn't be an issue. I've also been asked to try and calc some other stuff from Halo Legends

Otherwise, please send me anything that looks to be worth calculating.
 
I commented on blog and basically agree the Longsword example seems outlierish. The rest are looking well done though.
 
Otherwise, please send me anything that looks to be worth calculating.
You already had a look at the phantom stuff but that same terminal shows the Fuel Rod rounds making huge explosions next to the skyscrapers of High Chairty

I have no idea if they could be calculated but that might add some solid consistency to the 8-B Fuel Rod thing

I also think there’s something about Ravagers destroying Phantoms in Shadows of Reach. The PR feats from that Reddit post I sent could also be helpful for consistency regarding the Spartans
 
I have no idea if they could be calculated but that might add some solid consistency to the 8-B Fuel Rod thing
MC has like, a couple examples of tanking Fuel Rod Gun shots. The Halo 3 prequel comic even has him surviving six Hunter Assault Cannons firing directly at him. So unless you're dismissing those as outliers then the shields would have to be bumped up.
 
MC has like, a couple examples of tanking Fuel Rod Gun shots. The Halo 3 prequel comic even has him surviving six Hunter Assault Cannons firing directly at him. So unless you're dismissing those as outliers then the shields would have to be bumped up.
Yes 🗿
 
MC has like, a couple examples of tanking Fuel Rod Gun shots. The Halo 3 prequel comic even has him surviving six Hunter Assault Cannons firing directly at him. So unless you're dismissing those as outliers then the shields would have to be bumped up.
The Fuel Rod calc was pointed out to be somewhat iffy, as it's not clear if it's total destruction, or obliterating a fuel source. Though the destroyed Phantom doesn't have the signature purpleish flames that Covenant vessels emit when destroyed.

Personally, I am comfortable only with a Possibly up to 8-B rating for the Fuel Rod cannons.

As for tanking it, there is a way to measure this as joules of overpressure/=/ joules of thermal energy. Finding the radius of a Fuel Rod's blast and applying that to MC's surface area would yield not necessarily outlier results.

I commented on blog and basically agree the Longsword example seems outlierish. The rest are looking well done though.
If you mean the Scorpion missile being comparable to Longsword missiles and MC taking a close blast sure, as for the missiles themselves I cannot agree. Longsword missiles have no anti feats, and are made for combat against Covenant Corvettes, armored tanks, Seraphs, etc. The missile would've OHK'd MC if it hit.

Otherwise literally and I mean literally all of Master Chief's/Spartans 9-B+ to 8-C feats present and past are in his newer armors.
 
Last edited:
As for tanking it, there is a way to measure this as joules of overpressure/=/ joules of thermal energy. Finding the radius of a Fuel Rod's blast and applying that to MC's surface area would yield not necessarily outlier results.
No like, they directly strike him multiple times. Even in the worst case situation he's receiving like >20% of the total energy.
 
No like, they directly strike him multiple times. Even in the worst case situation he's receiving like >20% of the total energy.
You are right, Spartans are pretty consistent in surviving these, I am just following what DDM has told me about tanking thermal weapons which seems sound mathematically and logically.

Fuel Rods, especially Hunters don't have a very wide blast radius so your guess is probably correct.
 
If the 8-B feat is legit, then I am positive tanking Fuel Rods would be outliers. Especially since other Spartans have been one-shotted by Fuel Rods, or even two Fuel Rods vaporizing a Spartan was a pretty notable feat. It's possible John is simply more durable than Lucy given she only had an SPI armor as opposed to Mjolnir, but Williams getting killed by one shortly after he demonstrated him ripping a hunter in half (Which is also something believed to be an outlier) is a clear cut indication of how inconsistent it would be for them to be physically comparable to Fuel Rods. But that's also in addition to destroying a Phantom most likely being a chain reaction yes.
 
If the 8-B feat is legit, then I am positive tanking Fuel Rods would be outliers. Especially since other Spartans have been one-shotted by Fuel Rods, or even two Fuel Rods vaporizing a Spartan was a pretty notable feat. It's possible John is simply more durable than Lucy given she only had an SPI armor as opposed to Mjolnir,
Bingo, SPI is not comparable to Mjolnir at all.
but Williams getting killed by one shortly after he demonstrated him ripping a hunter in half (Which is also something believed to be an outlier) is a clear cut indication of how inconsistent it would be for them to be physically comparable to Fuel Rods. But that's also in addition to destroying a Phantom most likely being a chain reaction yes.
I would need to see a scan of Williams doing this, part of me doubts we are remembering parts of Ghosts of Onyx right. But if this did happen in SPI armor, and especially unarmored it's an outlier as there is literally nothing suggesting Unarmored Spartans are on that level and it goes against what the verse has established.

As for the Phantom feat, this is why I am comfortable only with a Possibly up to 8-B rating.

This may be a potentially better feat in the same terminal video. A Grunt fires a Fuel Rod, then a distant explosion is shown to us. It won't be easy to angsize but I can give it a try.
 
I would need to see a scan of Williams doing this, part of me doubts we are remembering parts of Ghosts of Onyx right. But if this did happen in SPI armor, and especially unarmored it's an outlier as there is literally nothing suggesting Unarmored Spartans are on that level and it goes against what the verse has established.
He probably won't respond given his retirement years back combined with not being very active as of late, but I'll ping @Soldier_Blue in case he may remember details.
 
would need to see a scan of Williams doing this, part of me doubts we are remembering parts of Ghosts of Onyx right.
Here you go
Will hurled himself at the Hunter, and knocked the beast off its feet and into its mate—and the three of them tumbled down the stairs.

Kurt got up, ignoring the near-blinding pain, and limped to the edge.

Will stood between both Hunters at the base of the hill. He kicked the nearest in the unarmored middle and it staggered back.

Around him were a dozen Elites who, confronted by the sight of a lone Spartan engaging two Hunters in hand-to-hand combat, were momentarily too stunned to act.

Kurt and Lucy opened fire, suppressing the Elites, before they regained their senses. One Hunter lashed out with its shield. Will ducked, darted inside its reach, and battered its bruised midsection—punching through flesh and ripping out wriggling chunks of the composite eel colony.

The second Hunter angled away from the fight and brought its cannon to bear. Will spun around. The Hunter shot him. Will's energy shield vanished, and the front of his MJOLNIR armor melted. He took a step toward the beast, and collapsed.

The Hunter turned and roared at the Spartans at the top of the hill, and then started to bring its tremendous shield back in line… A SPNKr missile screamed past Kurt's head, leaving a spiral of propellant exhaust, streaked toward the Hunter, and impacted dead center of its mass. The air erupted into a blurred sphere of explosive force.

The nearby Elites were tossed aside like rag dolls, their shields flaring. The Hunter burst into a cloud of snakelike parts that wetly spattered upon the floor. Kurt turned and saw Fred kneeling next to him, his spent SPNKr tube smoking. It was silent. Nothing moved. Not the Elites, the Hunters, or William. Kelly and Linda finally rose, shaking off the concussion from the fuel-rod cannon detonation. They stood with Kurt and Fred and stared at their fallen comrade. Ash was on his knees where Holly had stood a second ago. There were the outlines of two bootprints on the stone… nothing else.
 
Here you go
Thank you for helping out!

Anyway we see here that William did not rip apart the Hunter, only ripped out some of the worms making up its body, which are nowhere near as tough as the armor. Will was actually in Mjolnir, the weapon battered down his MKV's shields and melted the front armor plating. So Will survives that initial barrage, while Holly in SPI isn't so lucky.

The SPINKR obliterates the Hunter, armor and all which will be important once I finish calculating the mass of a Hunter's armor.
 
Will was actually in Mjolnir, the weapon battered down his MKV's shields and melted the front armor plating. So Will survives that initial barrage,
Nah Will just died there.

Additionally Onyx takes place after the Battle for Earth. So wouldn't will have Mark VI?

Though this and First Strike where three brute shot rounds kill a Spartan in Mjolnir armor makes it seem like the Fuel Rod Cannon stuff is Chief having plot armor on.
 
Though this and First Strike where three brute shot rounds kill a Spartan in Mjolnir armor makes it seem like the Fuel Rod Cannon stuff is Chief having plot armor on.
That's pretty much the entire premise of John's character. He really was never intended to be seen as much stronger, faster, tougher, or smarter than average Spartan-II's and the only reason he's still alive is pure dumb luck combined with sheer willpower. But he survives stuff that usually kills Spartans outright or in more extreme examples, there tends to be surprise last second plot twists such as a Bubble Shield happening to just mysteriously appear at the last second or in Halo 4's case, it's confirmed in a combination of Halo 5 statement and some books that Cortana simply managed to transport him to safety at the last second to avoid the Havok Nuke.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top