And that matters literally how? The actual souls in the battle on Cray, Kai's soul and his opponent's soul, are using the Units they're possessing to battle with. So no, they are absolutely not ordinary people during battle by any sense of the word.
The cardfights and battles are happening in real time simultaneously. There's no proof this is mftl travel speed.
They are not happening at literally the exact same moments when one is fighting using just cards and the other is actual legitimate combat between the Units, already making the latter happening at their own speeds.
And every movement reflects commands made by the cardfighters. It's evident that they aren't traveling at mftl when fighting.
Huh? So like, if you commanded me to throw a punch, and I could move at MFTL+ speeds, I suddenly can't because you commanded me?
That isn't evidence for low speeds at all. The humans commanding the Units, again, are literally possessing the Unit they are riding in battle and using THAT Units battling capabilities to fight with at all. This is basic in-verse rules explained in the very basics of Vanguard.
****, my hypothetical is useless now lol.
That's not what I'm talking about. The command is irrelevant. The fact that human can command blocks mid attack is clear signs of them not being mftl.
And that's not the context here for this particular series when this is a verse where literally everyone and their mother can infuse their souls with supernaturally powered and very blatantly superhuman beings to use them for battling on their home world.
Yesterday you said their speed feats were casual. Now all of a sudden everyone's battling at full speed? Switching this up to fit the narrative huh?
The same units who can get tagged by bullets, lightning, and moonlight.
No, I said the lightning based feats that you were so adamant at claiming was their best speeds were what are casual. And they are.
Which are attacks from other Units.
By your own standard they're battling at casual speeds.
Any proof those bullets are mftl? Lightning being mftl? Moonlight being mftl?
Dont twist what I said. I said the lightning speeds specifically that you noted out in an attempt to discredit the ratings are what are casual.
Yes, by attacking the damn Units. We said this to you dozens of times here already.
Where?
They would scale in reaction by reacting to the movements of the Units they fight against. Their travel speed.
And that is a ridiculous notion when that isn't how travel speed works.
Which our standards don't separate. So unless you get that changed, travel speed applies to the whole movement of travel a character does. Especially if it's movement like leaping, which is still roughly comparable to flying that it should still scale over.
That's not what the standards are. If the travel feat is in outer space, it won't scale to any other kind of speed unless there is sufficient proof. Leaping in small areas, etc. fall under combat speed.
Nowhere on this site is that specified AKM, and things like running and leaping is absolutely not combat speed. The travel speed area of the page even specifies this.
You missed this part. Not all means of travel are same.
The thread specifically deals with the subject of scaling reactions to flight. Not movements like running, leaping and jumps to travel speed. So the thread is irrelevant to what im talking about here.
Leaping is roughly a similar movement to flying. There's no reason to argue the leaping isn't the same speed.
Yes, making it irrelevant when this discussion now is about speed being scaled to movements done.
Then change the speed page because travel speed outright classifying a character, for instance running, as travel speed or similar movements to running as travel speed directly goes against what your saying here right now.
No, your thread was specifically tackling the point on flight speeds not scaling to that of reactions or combat speeds. Not that flight speed doesnt scale to leaping, jumping or other similar movements.
Leaping is a similar movement to flying. So no, I disagree with it not scaling.
Means the same thing. Hell, the flight speed used to travel between universes doesn't scale to flight speed used to travel in a city, because a city has obstacles while outer space doesn't.
Not really. Again, flying through outer space where there are no obstacles does not scale to leaping in a close area where you have to actively change your direction to avoid attacks (obstacles).
I asked for evidence of this earlier. Is there any instance of somebody closely reacting to somebody else who is flying through space at MFTL+ speeds?
Epitome of nitpicking here AKM. You can't limit flight or travel speeds to only the distance moved and then argue they wouldnt move at those when making quick dashes or zooms in any other instance of them going across a given distance.
You seem to be missing what im saying. The maneuvering a character does to avoid obstacles is not what im saying should scale to the flight speed. The speed of the leaping itself should be whats scaled, because leaping is a similar movement to flying.
See above. This very oddly specifically limited array of needing them to react when only traveling through this superly specific instance is ridiculous.
I mean, you are free to change the standards. It is what it is. Plus, it isn't even nitpicking. It's common sense. As a normal human too, if I provide you a clean track to run that has no obstacles, you'd run much faster than if I put several obstacles in the track that you have to actively avoid.
It isn't? Even the travel speed text you quoted differentiates leaping from flying. Leaping comes from your leg strength, while flying is, well, the ability of flight.
When we don't assume that the character who travels in outer space uses that same speed normally and that it doesn't scale to their normal reactions or combat speed, then obviously you'd need such an instance in order to prove that the scaling exists. That's the whole point. Since they don't scale by default, you'd need to comply with the burden of proof.
I don't have to when nowhere in the standards is this a thing. Flight movement is flight movement, running movement is running movement. If a character runs or flies at MFTL+ in one instance, you can't limit their other instances of flying and running as magically not MFTL+ just because they're going different distances.
See above. Again, changing your movement through obstacles is not what im talking about here.
And when you are leaping, you are zooming your way through the air exactly like how flying does it. The only difference being that flight is indefinite while leaping needs leg strength to continue doing.
And this is what im not agreeing with. There's 0 reason to assume they wouldn't fly at the same speed normally, especially if they're flying after someone in battle they want to attack.
We can and we do. Flying in outer space =/= flying in combat. I've already explained the reasons why.
Different mechanisms. They don't scale to each other. Also explained this.
Flying after someone in battle is combat speed if done in a restricted area. The speed at which one fights. Combat speed doesn't scale to the flight speed employed in outer space where there are no obstacles. You don't have to agree, but this is the rule.
The note in the speed page is about a specific instance of travel when there are no obstacles, hence even if the character's reactions are slower, they can still fly faster in comparison because they don't have to worry about colliding with random obstacles. But when there are obstacles, their flight speed would naturally decrease to match their reactions, otherwise, if their flight speed does not match their reactions in those cases, they will just collide with the obstacles. So yeah, in cases where a character is flying through space, we don't assume they make use of the same speed in combat.
They aren't different at all. It's zooming from one point to the other in the same fashion through the air.
It is not combat speed because this isn't the speed of them attacking or punching or hitting the opponent. This is the speedo them traveling after the opponent.
But travel speed does. And reacting to someone traveling after you, regardless of the distance, scales your reactions. And you have 0 reason to say otherwise on that.
See above. Not worth replying to this because this is again not about combat speed scaling. This is about the movement of traveling.
That has to do with this how?
... i am saying that to reach those movement speeds they need to accelerate and can't just reach them on a whim
It shouldn't be impossible. Just very difficult to achieve. That is indeed what I'm saying.
For speed thats great enough to travel across the entire universe and then some in an absurdly small amount of time, acceleration wouldnt matter as the speed would still be FTL/MFTL. Let's use your argument for a second and it will still fail. Here's why:
Okay and im saying that it shouldn't be this difficult to achieve, as at this point, this is just adding another wall after another to find any excuse to just not scale it. And its annoying as hell.
Baseless comparison. The mechanics behind a sprint is completely different from spatial flight. Also, time isn't the issue here, distance is.
I'm not trying to cockblock any verse specifically, but I do indeed think that we should be incredibly conservative in scaling travel speed to reactions and the like though yes. It's not finding an "excuse" it's applying an amount of scrutiny that previously wasn't applied that's it.
Not baseless, because the point here is that acceleration won't drop FTL, much less absurdly high MFTL+ like this, into non FTL/MFTL+ speeds when accelerating. Even if slower, the speed is still MFTL+
It kinda is. If the timeframe is absurdly short, and your claiming there's acceleration, then the time it takes to reach acceleration would then be extremely short too, to the point where it doesn't matter. A space flight feat that takes no more than a second to reach the end of the universe isn't going to have more than one second needed for acceleration.
Okay and I don't agree with us being "incredibly conservative" when that is a personal take of how much one finds and doesnt find acceptable. Which shouldn't be applied as a universal umbrella standard for every little thing. This site suffers from enough incredulity as it is.
