Excellence616
He/Him- 5,328
- 3,661
I agree
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Bleach TYBW Anime Cour 1 AP/Durability Revisions
- Thread starter Arc7Kuroi
- Start date
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- Tags
- bleach ichigo kurosaki tybw
- Status
- 3,353
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the graph have pretty colors so i agree.
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Same tho
speedster352
He/Him- 17,231
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I agree with the op
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Looks alright, I don't have any issue.
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- Thread starter
- #48
I definitely agree that this puts Yhwach above the other Sternritter. However, I don’t think that implication defeats my original claim either. Yhwach implies you need to have a level of strength to wield Yama’s Bankai, which isn’t far fetched either, because we know Yama’s Bankai is so powerful that it will kill the user overtime. So, Yhwach would have to be somewhat on Bankai Yama’s level, as to handle ZnT without just getting killed by it.
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Isn't he dead in CFYOW?
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- Thread starter
- #50
Not really relevant to what I said but yeah
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- Thread starter
- #53
I’m going to blog it after the 48 hours are up and let people review it
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I agree with the blog, but the only thing I’m unsure is about the asauchi scaling for Renji, iirc it was implied that Ichigo was there coughing blood because he could not find his true zanpakuto therefore they were kicking his ass, not because Ichigo is weak. I need to rewatch it.
scaling Renji to him directly to him, especially above his bankai enraged self against Yhwach when both didn’t had a zanpakuto here against the asauchi, is too much Imo.
You would have to assume proportional amp which isn’t the case.
scaling Renji to him directly to him, especially above his bankai enraged self against Yhwach when both didn’t had a zanpakuto here against the asauchi, is too much Imo.
You would have to assume proportional amp which isn’t the case.
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- Thread starter
- #55
Ehhhhh they were both given the same food reiatsu from Hikifune. Both are implied by Unohana to have the potential to rival Zaraki, and both could scrap with relative opponents. Rn it’s pretty darn consistent.
Myxenete
He/Him- 132
- 105
Well I'm actually more so asking why As Nodt, Cang Du BG9 and Bambi shouldn't scale to the bankai they stole since they'd have to pull of the same thing (though obviously of differing magnitudes) of handling the bankai they stole, or are you saying that it's only applicable because of Zanka no tachi's suicide-ish nature? Because we know from Soul Soceity Ichigo and later Bankai Kenpachi that if a bankai outscales it's user the reiatsu would crush them and tear apart their body anyway.
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- Thread starter
- #57
Right now they scale around or above the Bankai they stole with Blut. So their base forms do scale like that.
Myxenete
He/Him- 132
- 105
Cang and BG9 scale nowhere near the bankai they stole even with Blut on your chart,
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- Thread starter
- #59
So Cang and BG9 have some stuff next cour that I’m waiting to see how it’s handled. Keep in mind this shit is subject to change with cours.
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Is it backscaling from the comment of Grimmjow being like ~ Tier level or something?
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- Thread starter
- #62
Not at all, not relevant to this thread tho, if you wanna discuss it do it not in my thread
Excellence616
He/Him- 5,328
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To me it's look inconsistent. Just like Renji saying he has trained to fight opponents on Aizen's level. I really disagree on Renji
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- Thread starter
- #64
Difference is Renji has feats and the statements are coming from characters far more knowledgeable than Renji, the situation is not the same at all
Myxenete
He/Him- 132
- 105
Not the same situation at all, Renji says he trained because someone like Aizen showed uo, he never says he's as strong or stronger than Aizen (even Kubo clears that up in an interview iirc), Unohana says Renji has the potential to catch up to Zaraki directly, no roundaboutism there and he defeats the same Asauchi that beat Ichigo bloody, even if the Asauchi kept beating on Ichigo cause he didn't know the truth about himself, it wouldn't change the fact they would still have to be physically strong enough to beat that Ichigo and Renji would have to be physically strong enough to engage them without dying for 3 days to achieve the results he does
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If I may, I agree with pretty much everything, but I'm still a bit iffy on the Renji part...
Putting him above pre-training Zaraki probably makes sense given the intensity of said training and given Unohana's statement, as surprising as that may be at first glance. I still prob. agree here.
That said, I'm not sure I agree with scaling Renji to Ichigo based on this: "Renji is later able to best Asauchi that can bloody Ichigo".
At least the way I've always interpreted it, was moreso in the sense that's not inherently a "physical challenge", which you can simply bruteforce through, but more of a challenge that works extra aggressively against someone who doesn't know themselves fully, like Ichigo at that time.
I think it's more plausible that the Asauchi specifically targetted Ichigo way more than Renji, given the context of Ichigo's mental state in that point in time.
And then the fact that Ichigo casually strolls past the Asauchi on his second attempt (after learning who he really is), instead of having to fight them again, may support that idea too.
In other words, the challenge is adjusted to the individual's mental state, depending on how the Asauchi view said individual.
Does Renji passing the challenge first imply he would be able to contend with Ichigo in a fight, in that moment? I don't believe that was Kubo's intention.
Essentially, I don't agree with scaling Renji to Ichigo in that moment, simply because Renji was more suitable for that challenge than Ichigo.
Or at the very least, I don't believe that's the smoking gun to prove it.
I hope this made sense?
Putting him above pre-training Zaraki probably makes sense given the intensity of said training and given Unohana's statement, as surprising as that may be at first glance. I still prob. agree here.
That said, I'm not sure I agree with scaling Renji to Ichigo based on this: "Renji is later able to best Asauchi that can bloody Ichigo".
At least the way I've always interpreted it, was moreso in the sense that's not inherently a "physical challenge", which you can simply bruteforce through, but more of a challenge that works extra aggressively against someone who doesn't know themselves fully, like Ichigo at that time.
I think it's more plausible that the Asauchi specifically targetted Ichigo way more than Renji, given the context of Ichigo's mental state in that point in time.
And then the fact that Ichigo casually strolls past the Asauchi on his second attempt (after learning who he really is), instead of having to fight them again, may support that idea too.
In other words, the challenge is adjusted to the individual's mental state, depending on how the Asauchi view said individual.
Does Renji passing the challenge first imply he would be able to contend with Ichigo in a fight, in that moment? I don't believe that was Kubo's intention.
Essentially, I don't agree with scaling Renji to Ichigo in that moment, simply because Renji was more suitable for that challenge than Ichigo.
Or at the very least, I don't believe that's the smoking gun to prove it.
I hope this made sense?
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Being a potential threat and being too immortal for Yhwach to kill doesn't necessarily make Muken Aizen > Yhwach.
I'd say it just makes Muken Aizen ~ Yhwach.
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- Thread starter
- #68
I disagree, Nimaiya states that the Asauchi are angry at both of them, and demonstrates this by displaying how “brittle” their Zanpakuto are. It’s heavily implied that the Asauchi are pretty equally mad with Renji and Ichigo.If I may, I agree with pretty much everything, but I'm still a bit iffy on the Renji part...
Putting him above pre-training Zaraki probably makes sense given the intensity of said training and given Unohana's statement, as surprising as that may be at first glance. I still prob. agree here.
That said, I'm not sure I agree with scaling Renji to Ichigo based on this: "Renji is later able to best Asauchi that can bloody Ichigo".
At least the way I've always interpreted it, was moreso in the sense that's not inherently a "physical challenge", which you can simply bruteforce through, but more of a challenge that works extra aggressively against someone who doesn't know themselves fully, like Ichigo at that time.
I think it's more plausible that the Asauchi specifically targetted Ichigo way more than Renji, given the context of Ichigo's mental state in that point in time.
And then the fact that Ichigo casually strolls past the Asauchi on his second attempt (after learning who he really is), instead of having to fight them again, may support that idea too.
In other words, the challenge is adjusted to the individual's mental state, depending on how the Asauchi view said individual.
Does Renji passing the challenge first imply he would be able to contend with Ichigo in a fight, in that moment? I don't believe that was Kubo's intention.
Essentially, I don't agree with scaling Renji to Ichigo in that moment, simply because Renji was more suitable for that challenge than Ichigo.
Or at the very least, I don't believe that's the smoking gun to prove it.
I hope this made sense?
I don’t really agree with base Yhwach being on Muken Aizen’s level given what will likely be revealed later. I also think it’s generous to say that Yhwach is Muken Aizen level when the highlight of the scene is how Yhwach fears Aizen’s power, and views him as a threat.
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If Muken Aizen is superior to Yhwach for other reasons than that may be fine, but I was addressing the ones just in the OP.
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- Thread starter
- #71
That’s cool, I wasn’t planning on using that stuff to give Muken Aizen a quantifiable tier anyway, rather it’d go in there as consistency if there’s Yhwach level people wary of his power. Since it seems they may be changing around how TS Ichigo scales, God Tiers may end up looking a little different down the line anyway.
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I agree with the assessment that the Asauchi were angry at both of them.
However it's also heavily implied that the only reason Ichigo didn't pass the first time while Renji did, was because he didn't even know who he was and therefore was not suitable to bond with an Asauchi at the time.
Again, once Ichigo's mental state changed and he returned, he was just allowed passage with no resistance from the Asauchi.
So maybe they weren't actually equally mad at both, but more angry towards Ichigo.
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- #73
There’s a difference in how Renji and Ichigo made them submit. Ichigo made them submit through an unrivaled understanding of himself, which we know Renji doesn’t have (he doesn’t even know Zabimaru’s true name yet), while Renji made them submit through force. There’s no correlation between the ways they made the Asauchi submit, and furthermore there’s no evidence to support the Asauchi that attacked Ichigo being arbitrarily stronger than the one’s that fought Renji.
Excellence616
He/Him- 5,328
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That would be better.
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Bro color coding the AP values is beautiful af to see. **** the scaling reasoning, I agree because of that alone.
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If you say Renji didn't have an understanding of himself like Ichigo because Zabimaru lied to him about its true name, then don't forget the exact same thing applies to Ichigo, as he only found out the truth about who Zangetsu is AFTER he takes the Asauchi. Similar situation actually.
I would argue Renji knows who he is just as much as Ichigo does after being told the truth.
The difference, imo, would be that the Asauchi simply respected Ichigo's confidence and power a lot more than Renji's. Which would also imply they're nowhere near equal at the time.
Excellence616
He/Him- 5,328
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Fullbring Ichigo already having 5-B. I wonder how him and other God tiers Tier would be.
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- #79
They absolutely are not the same. Renji doesn’t even know the name of his true Bankai. Ichigo knows the name of his true Bankai. The only person who understands the Blade Is Me is Ichigo, and maybe Aizen. Renji does not understand his own powers near the degree Ichigo does.
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- #80
I think I’m going to hold off on changing anything about Renji’s profile until we see him perform more after the Reiokyu training. See if he can put his money where his mouth is, mainly cuz I’m not too pressed to argue about whether Renji should scale off these statements, especially when the contention is less the value and moreso scaling him directly to Ichigo. Which is really getting it the most minor of points. We shall consider Renji to be ok fraud watch for now 
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