Vollstandig revisions

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Can we finally give this shit a multiplier?

First, Soken tells uryu that letzt stil is the peak of one's quincy powers, and momentarily gain abilities beyond what a normal quincy could control, inexchange for their quincy powers.
This is supported by the fact that Uryu went from near death, to fodderizing mayuri. This would logically scale it above blut.

Urahara later says this:

Quilge later says that Volstandig is Stronger than letzt stil.

For these reasons I think Volstandig should get the same multipler for bankai (5-10x), though i support 10x since it is greater than blut AND letzt

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Right when arc is making their revisions.....

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

The scans speak for themselves, letzt stil is consistently brought up as the STRONGEST quincy ability, and Volstandig takes that to another level.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Right when arc is making their revisions.....

skill issue fr fr

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Nope, just because Uryu can multiply is attack potency with Letz stil does not mean every other Sternritter’s Vollstandig can multiply their stats. Similarly how just because Ichigo’s Bankai amps his speed 5x doesn’t mean we amp everyone’s Bankai speed 5x. What you’re proposing is just blatantly in violation of our multiplier standards, and I suggest you familiarize yourself with vsbw standards prior to making arguments in the future.

 

[Deceived3596]

Can we finally give this shit a multiplier?

First, Soken tells uryu that letzt stil is the peak of one's quincy powers, and momentarily gain abilities beyond what a normal quincy could control, inexchange for their quincy powers.
This is supported by the fact that Uryu went from near death, to fodderizing mayuri. This would logically scale it above blut.

Urahara later says this:

Quilge later says that Volstandig is Stronger than letzt stil.

For these reasons I think Volstandig should get the same multipler for bankai (5-10x), though i support 10x since it is greater than blut AND letzt

 

[Damage3245]

Nope, just because Uryu can multiply is attack potency with Letz stil does not mean every other Sternritter’s Vollstandig can multiply their stats. Similarly how just because Ichigo’s Bankai amps his speed 5x doesn’t mean we amp everyone’s Bankai speed 5x. What you’re proposing is just blatantly in violation of our multiplier standards, and I suggest you familiarize yourself with vsbw standards prior to making arguments in the future.

Arc7 makes sense to me here.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Nope, just because Uryu can multiply is attack potency with Letz stil does not mean every other Sternritter’s Vollstandig can multiply their stats. Similarly how just because Ichigo’s Bankai amps his speed 5x doesn’t mean we amp everyone’s Bankai speed 5x. What you’re proposing is just blatantly in violation of our multiplier standards, and I suggest you familiarize yourself with vsbw standards prior to making arguments in the future.

volstandig is literally just a stronger letzt stil without the drawbacks. letzt stil increases every facet of your quincy powers, to the point where it's impossible to control.

 

[KingTempest]

What Arc said

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

What Arc said

im fr being hit with the classic fra train

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

volstandig is literally just a stronger letzt stil without the drawbacks. letzt stil increases every facet of your quincy powers, to the point where it's impossible to control.

I’m not going to continue to repeat myself, but you haven’t addressed my argument whatsoever. I know that URYU can amplify his arrows 3x with Letz Stil. Just because URYU can do something, does not mean EVERY SINGLE QUINCY can do the same thing. Just like how just because ICHIGO can amplify his Bankai speed by 5x doesn’t mean EVERY SINGLE BANKAI can amplify speed by 5x. I all caps’d the important words so it’s easier to understand.

im fr being hit with the classic fra train

Because everyone else is aware of our multiplier standards but you

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

I’m not going to continue to repeat myself, but you haven’t addressed my argument whatsoever. I know that URYU can amplify his arrows 3x with Letz Stil. Just because URYU can do something, does not mean EVERY SINGLE QUINCY can do the same thing. Just like how just because ICHIGO can amplify his Bankai speed by 5x doesn’t mean EVERY SINGLE BANKAI can amplify speed by 5x. I all caps’d the important words so it’s easier to understand.
\

it is consistently stated to be the strongest ability in a quincys arsenal. not URYU's arsenal. this means a quincy with letzt would always be stronger than if they just used blut., which has an accepted multiplier. It breaks their limiter for a limited time in exchange for their quincy powers.

 

[Lynieryz]

Dude made this thread without paying attention to the most credible argument, which is that the increase in vollstandig is greater than the increase in blut, which would give "at least 5x" as the minimum quantifiable value to the vollstandig.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Dude made this thread without paying attention to the most credible argument, which is that the increase in vollstandig is greater than the increase in blut, which would give "at least 5x" as the minimum quantifiable value to the vollstandig.

"volstandig is the greatest quincy techinque, therefore it exceeds blut"
vsbw :

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

it is consistently stated to be the strongest ability in a quincys arsenal. not URYU's arsenal. this means a quincy with letzt would always be stronger than if they just used blut., which has an accepted multiplier. It breaks their limiter for a limited time in exchange for their quincy powers.

Nope, Vollstandig can combine with Blut, so all Vollstandig has to be to be the ultimate technique is to be above their base forms. Aka Base < Vollstandig, Base with Blut < Vollstandig with Blut. Nothing makes regular Vollstandig inherently above their base Blut outside of head canon. And again, every captain has Bankai in their arsenal, but that doesn’t make every Bankai the same amp. It does not matter that all Quincy have Letz Stil and Vollstandig at all, that means nothing.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Dude made this thread without paying attention to the most credible argument, which is that the increase in vollstandig is greater than the increase in blut, which would give "at least 5x" as the minimum quantifiable value to the vollstandig.

This is an argument that doesn't conflict with multiplier standards as it'd essentially be using same logic that gave blut it's multiplier in first place.
Plus it's stated to give unimaginable power not powers (It's pretty blanketed and should apply a 5x mult to every vollstandig IMO)

but I get some people don't wanna touch on this because it might ruin some stuff.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

This is an argument that doesn't conflict with multiplier standards as it'd essentially be using same logic that gave blut it's multiplier in first place.
Plus it's stated to give unimaginable power not powers (It's pretty blanketed and should apply a 5x mult to every vollstandig IMO)

but I get some people don't wanna touch on this because it might ruin some stuff.

Or, if you read our multiplier standards, you’d understand that that statement is not grounds for a multiplier due to the strict standards we have for multipliers. It isn’t that hard to familiarize yourself with ON SITE standards. Off site, sure that flies fine, on site, we gotta be a bit more strict, like tough.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Nope, Vollstandig can combine with Blut, so all Vollstandig has to be to be the ultimate technique is to be above their base forms. Aka Base < Vollstandig, Base with Blut < Vollstandig with Blut. Nothing makes regular Vollstandig inherently above their base Blut outside of head canon. And again, every captain has Bankai in their arsenal, but that doesn’t make every Bankai the same amp. It does not matter that all Quincy have Letz Stil and Vollstandig at all, that means nothing.

all techniques mean ALL OF THEM. Urahara and Soken didnt say "combined with blut, letzt stil is the strongest ability for a quincy", they said straight up it is the strongest ability for a quincy, PERIOD.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

"its immense power is the greatest and final power for a quincy"
"lol no base blut stronger"

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Or, if you read our multiplier standards, you’d understand that that statement is not grounds for a multiplier due to the strict standards we have for multipliers. It isn’t that hard to familiarize yourself with ON SITE standards. Off site, sure that flies fine, on site, we gotta be a bit more strict, like tough.

Except it's not being reasoned by other means other than stated multipliers. It's quite a simple train of thought.

Bankai is a 5x multiplier. Blut is stated to be comparable to bankai when in terms of strength/amps. Vollstandig is the best strength enhancing ability in a quincies kit and grants them unimaginable power so from upscaling it would be 5x.

Like it's definitely not against standards.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

all techniques mean ALL OF THEM. Urahara and Soken didnt say "combined with blut, letzt stil is the strongest ability for a quincy", they said straight up it is the strongest ability for a quincy, PERIOD.

That’s not contradictory to anything I said. As Vollstandig with Blut is stronger than anything else a Quincy has. Meaning that yes, they are at their strongest with Vollstandig. Blut is just a technique it’s not a whole other transformation or form. They don’t need to spoon feed you information like they’re talking to a 6 year old dude, we can use simple logic and apply our standards appropriately. It’s not that hard.

Except it's not being reasoned by other means other than stated multipliers. It's quite a simple train of thought.

Bankai is a 5x multiplier. Blut is stated to be comparable to bankai when in terms of strength/amps. Vollstandig is the best strength enhancing ability in a quincies kit and grants them unimaginable power so from upscaling it would be 5x.

Like it's definitely not against standards.

Nowhere is it stated that Vollstandig by itself is the strongest AP enhancement Quincy have, that is being reasoned by other means. Unfortunately it is against our standards. For Quincy can use Blut while in Vollstandig, so as long as their peak Vollstandig power (which would include blut) is above their peak bar power (which would also include blut), then that statement is satisfied and true.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

For Quincy can use Blut while in Vollstandig, so as long as their peak Vollstandig power (which would include blut) is above their peak bar power (which would also include blut), then that statement is satisfied and true.

I don't like this logic because it's explicity talking about vollstandig alone. Adding another variable to something that makes sense by itself just doesn't sit right with me. I'm not gonna die on this hill and don't really care too much if vollstandig multiplier is used or not but I'm just pointing out what I think is right.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I don't like this logic because it's explicity talking about vollstandig alone. Adding another variable to something that makes sense by itself just doesn't sit right with me. I'm not gonna die on this hill and don't really care too much if vollstandig multiplier is used or not but I'm just pointing out what I think is right.

It’s not inherently isolated Vollstandig on its own at all, it’s speaking broadly and generally that Vollstandig is the strongest form a Quincy can have, which doesn’t make base Vollstandig quantifiably above base Blut, it means that any technique wielded in Vollstandig is stronger than that same technique in base. A Vollstandig arrow is stronger than a base arrow, a Vollstandig schrift ability is stronger than a base schrift ability, and Vollstandig blut is stronger than base blut. That is all it means inherently.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

It’s not inherently isolated Vollstandig on its own at all, it’s speaking broadly and generally that Vollstandig is the strongest form a Quincy can have

It does not say form. Urahara says "power"

 

[Deceived3596]

I personally agree that Vollstandig should probably grant an AP amp similar to your average Bankai, or at least scale above the 3 times multiplier we're given by Uryu as the reason why Uryu was capable of releasing another attack that was three times stronger than the previous one was through adding more Reishi to it, which all Quincies who have Vollstandig, which is a more potent and advanced form of Letzt Stil, are capable of doing. I however can't comment on if our multiplier standards would allow such a deduction or not. So I'll remain neutral officially but personally I lean towards agreeing with the OP.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

bro is getting crushed in this debate effortlessly by arc

Your input was not needed.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

No it isn’t stop being antagonistic

 

[Lynieryz]

I'm sure there must be a scene of the same character using only blut and only vollstandig, you just need to compare to who it was used on and the damage caused/received.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I'm sure there must be a scene of the same character using only blut and only vollstandig, you just need to compare to who it was used on and the damage caused/received.

That’s what we do right now, if a character’s Vollstandig has feats of being above their base Blut, then their Vollstandig scales above their base Blut. If not then it doesn’t. Just like how if Bankai have scaling to a stat multiplier (Ichigo’s Bankai scaling to Byakuya’s 2x AP amp) it is given that scaling off the multiplier. Elsewise it isn’t.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

I'm sure there must be a scene of the same character using only blut and only vollstandig, you just need to compare to who it was used on and the damage caused/received.

finding the exact damage caused is tricky and can be subjective, using statements is much better imo

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Nope, just because Uryu can multiply is attack potency with Letz stil does not mean every other Sternritter’s Vollstandig can multiply their stats.

He does this because of his increased reishi collecting ability, the basis behind every quincy move. all letzt and volstandig have this increased reishi collecting ability.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I share the same reasons as Arc for disagreeing with the thread.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

It does not say form. Urahara says "power"

^

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

i see seeing "muh multipler standars", but not HOW it violates the standards exactly?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

When I get home I have a proposal for applying the 3x statement in a way that is not in violation of our standards, but ima need my computer for scans, so give me a bit

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Always trust in Arc

 

[Deceived3596]

When I get home I have a proposal for applying the 3x statement in a way that is not in violation of our standards, but ima need my computer for scans, so give me a bit

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

most obvious change to their combat ability meaning its stronger.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Another goober thread, disagree. Doesn’t match our multiplier standards, and this has to be rejected just like the Unohana > Base Aizen thread and the Fb Bankai > Dangai Ichigo threads

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Another goober thread, disagree. Doesn’t match our multiplier standards, and this has to be rejected just like the Unohana > Base Aizen thread and the Fb Bankai > Dangai Ichigo threads

violates the multiplier standards

refuses to cite how