Bleach TYBW Anime Cour 1 AP/Durability Revisions

[Tyri456]

I think I’m going to hold off on changing anything about Renji’s profile until we see him perform more after the Reiokyu training. See if he can put his money where his mouth is, mainly cuz I’m not too pressed to argue about whether Renji should scale off these statements, especially when the contention is less the value and moreso scaling him directly to Ichigo. Which is really getting it the most minor of points. We shall consider Renji to be ok fraud watch for now

I actually believe that after the training with the new bankai Renji can be scaled with that level, if you meant that I can agree.

Renji was casually one shotting amped mask who is a threat level even beyond shunui in my book.

tho what I find iffy is comparing his base rn, it’s just too speculative to me.
So just wait his training finishes then I think there can be way to scale him that way.

 

[Tyri456]

Being a potential threat and being too immortal for Yhwach to kill doesn't necessarily make Muken Aizen > Yhwach.

I'd say it just makes Muken Aizen ~ Yhwach.

I mean, we already know Muken Aizen tanked without actual damage a causal attack from Yhwach who even absorbed Gerard And Jugram on top of soul king And tons of sternitters.

same causal attacks from a weaker Yhwach where making heavy damage to a super-serious true shikai Ichigo.

base Yhwach would get clapped very bad by Aizen, hence why Aizen even when sealed on the chair was not remotely scared neither by Yhwach neither by sternitters.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Tyri keep in mind the future manga stuff might not apply here, since the anime is subject to change stuff. So don’t throw too much weight into what happens later in the manga.

 

[Tyri456]

Tyri keep in mind the future manga stuff might not apply here, since the anime is subject to change stuff. So don’t throw too much weight into what happens later in the manga.

Okay

 

[Myxenete]

A question, how exactly is Yhwach absorbing the dead Sternritter and Shinigami gonna be handled?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

A question, how exactly is Yhwach absorbing the dead Sternritter and Shinigami gonna be handled?

Assuming it’s the same as the manga, base Yhwach that fights Ichibe > base Yhwach that fights Ichigo, unquantifiable tho.

 

[DragonZeroNova]

Just a few things I wish to clarify about Driscoll and Sasakibe.

First, as far as I'm aware Sasakibe doesn't have a profile, however we do know he has a Shikai and a Bankai. I don't know if he has any feats being used to scale Driscoll, but since his Bankai was instantly stolen, Driscoll doesn't scale to Sasakibe in Bankai correct? Only Shikai?

Second, was it ever confirmed that Driscoll lost the power boost from the first time around? After all, had he been killing indiscriminatly before Yhwach was ready he may have given away that the Quincies were still around so when they decided to go to war, they specifically chose Driscoll to get stronger for the invasion. This is obviously also a theory and could be wrong, but is it possible the Driscoll Hisagi and Yama fought in the invasion was actually At Least 200 Kills Driscoll? If not, is there any proof that this isn't possible?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Just a few things I wish to clarify about Driscoll and Sasakibe.

First, as far as I'm aware Sasakibe doesn't have a profile, however we do know he has a Shikai and a Bankai. I don't know if he has any feats being used to scale Driscoll, but since his Bankai was instantly stolen, Driscoll doesn't scale to Sasakibe in Bankai correct? Only Shikai?

Second, was it ever confirmed that Driscoll lost the power boost from the first time around? After all, had he been killing indiscriminatly before Yhwach was ready he may have given away that the Quincies were still around so when they decided to go to war, they specifically chose Driscoll to get stronger for the invasion. This is obviously also a theory and could be wrong, but is it possible the Driscoll Hisagi and Yama fought in the invasion was actually At Least 200 Kills Driscoll? If not, is there any proof that this isn't possible?

It’s been multiple days, there’s no reason to assume he kept the boost. But Sasakibe in present day of the story has zero scaling except for being sun SS arc Shikai Ichigo level, so his involvement in scaling isn’t exactly important. Modern day Bankai Sasakibe doesn’t have any scaling to his past self at all, so Driscoll scaling to Bankai Sasakibe in the TYBW doesn’t conflict with anything. Since ik you’re getting at Sasakibe being Yama level, which is also false.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Good cooking from Arc TBH. it’s unfortunate no one scales directly above the 2 yottatons dangai splitting, despite massively out scaling Zaraki’s Ryoudan

also, couldnt we get some scaling for sasakibe by saying he scales to at least the weakest captain, since the website says he’s comparable to a captain?

 

[DragonZeroNova]

It’s been multiple days, there’s no reason to assume he kept the boost. But Sasakibe in present day of the story has zero scaling except for being sun SS arc Shikai Ichigo level, so his involvement in scaling isn’t exactly important. Modern day Bankai Sasakibe doesn’t have any scaling to his past self at all, so Driscoll scaling to Bankai Sasakibe in the TYBW doesn’t conflict with anything. Since ik you’re getting at Sasakibe being Yama level, which is also false.

I'm not actually getting at Sasakibe being at Yama level, I just wanted to make sure Driscoll wasn't at Bankai Sasakibe if that was a thing. Since Bankai Sasakibe is not considered to have any value, then I don't care.
But saying it's been multiple days doesn't really change anything right? Was his power given a time limit, or are there any other quincy schrifts that stop their effects after some time without having the user deactivate them?
Edit: I don't think it matters much to the proposal at hand and though I don't think it matters if I say I agree, I'll just put that down here that I do agree with all the changes except for maybe Renji (which you said you would hold off on until Cour 2) and maybe 100 kills Driscoll > Shuhei, but I don't actually think it matters if it's 100 or 200 for Shuhei since he was stomped. If you think the mechanics of Driscoll's schrift is unimportant to this crt, you can just ignore this.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Ehhhhh they were both given the same food reiatsu from Hikifune. Both are implied by Unohana to have the potential to rival Zaraki, and both could scrap with relative opponents. Rn it’s pretty darn consistent.

I’m happy as long as this upscales base Aizen in the future, if CFYOW is still to be used and shit doesn’t change majorly

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I'm not actually getting at Sasakibe being at Yama level, I just wanted to make sure Driscoll wasn't at Bankai Sasakibe if that was a thing. Since Bankai Sasakibe is not considered to have any value, then I don't care.
But saying it's been multiple days doesn't really change anything right? Was his power given a time limit, or are there any other quincy schrifts that stop their effects after some time without having the user deactivate them?
Edit: I don't think it matters much to the proposal at hand and though I don't think it matters if I say I agree, I'll just put that down here that I do agree with all the changes except for maybe Renji (which you said you would hold off on until Cour 2) and maybe 100 kills Driscoll > Shuhei, but I don't actually think it matters if it's 100 or 200 for Shuhei since he was stomped. If you think the mechanics of Driscoll's schrift is unimportant to this crt, you can just ignore this.

Can you provide any evidence that indicates they stacked? Cuz from the way he talks to Hisagi “I killed around 100 last time too” implies to me like he’s saying “im the same as last time”.

 

[DragonZeroNova]

Can you provide any evidence that indicates they stacked? Cuz from the way he talks to Hisagi “I killed around 100 last time too” implies to me like he’s saying “im the same as last time”.

I took that statement as "I killed 100 this time and 100 last time" so Hisagi and the viewers could do the math and figure out he's already killed 200 people. It could be the other way around, that it wears off. I'm not sure if there's any proof he lost the boost or kept the boost as this statement is the only one that tells us anything about his power, I just feel like it would justify him being sent to kill Sasakibe and Squad 1 if he kept the boost. Then again, there could be any number of reasons for him to go.
I just remembered, if there's no proof for whether the boost is lost or not and it's up to interpertation, we just go with the lowest number right? So I guess we just go with he loses the boost?

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

That being said, it should mean that Ichigo after getting amped by Hikifune’s food would be stronger than he was just prior in his fight against Yhwach

Agree with this, as it would create insane inconsistencies

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I took that statement as "I killed 100 this time and 100 last time" so Hisagi and the viewers could do the math and figure out he's already killed 200 people. It could be the other way around, that it wears off. I'm not sure if there's any proof he lost the boost or kept the boost as this statement is the only one that tells us anything about his power, I just feel like it would justify him being sent to kill Sasakibe and Squad 1 if he kept the boost. Then again, there could be any number of reasons for him to go.
I just remembered, if there's no proof for whether the boost is lost or not and it's up to interpertation, we just go with the lowest number right? So I guess we just go with he loses the boost?

Yeah if there’s no reason to assume he kept the boost I don’t see why we’d grant it, not that it really changes his scaling

 

[That_moron2]

This thread has everything but, everything but the rain

 

[DragonZeroNova]

Yeah if there’s no reason to assume he kept the boost I don’t see why we’d grant it, not that it really changes his scaling

Fair enough, thanks for taking your time to reply to my inquiries.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Wait, I just noticed on the flow chart, renji post-gatoden is listed as above enraged Ichigo Vs Yhwach. Per the crt, wouldn’t that be above Ichigo prior to his fight with Yhwach?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Wait, I just noticed on the flow chart, renji post-gatoden is listed as above enraged Ichigo Vs Yhwach. Per the crt, wouldn’t that be above Ichigo prior to his fight with Yhwach?

Prolly a typo, good catch

 

[MrBluePants]

They absolutely are not the same. Renji doesn’t even know the name of his true Bankai. Ichigo knows the name of his true Bankai. The only person who understands the Blade Is Me is Ichigo, and maybe Aizen. Renji does not understand his own powers near the degree Ichigo does.

But then later it's also flat out stated the reason Zabimaru lied to Renji was specifically because it didn't aknowledge his strength. Only after the training was virtually complete did Ichibe tell Renji its real name.

Are we then now to assume as well, using that post-gatonden Renji scaling to Ichigo, that Zabimaru would (hypothetically) also refuse to aknowledge Ichigo's strength at that point? The guy who fought almost toe to toe with base Yhwach? It just doesn't quite add up to me, narratively speaking...

I also think we shouldn't conflate "understanding their own powers" with "understanding who they even are". Sure, the 2 things are connected in the Bleach verse, but I wouldn't say they're the exact same.

Again, the Asauchi challenge is heavily implied by Ohetsu not to test the individual's strength or how much they understand their power ('cause during the challenge they're not even using their zampakuto (their power), they're both broken and unusable). The test is instead implied to test their conviction in themselves/their own identity - it's the whole reason Ohetsu sent Ichigo away to find himself in the first place, and why he aced the test once he returned.
It makes sense for Ichigo to lose that first time, since he was at a mentally vulnerable place at the time, at a point of low confidence - he was still grappling with Yhwach's comment about his mother.

Idk... contextually, I personally think this interpretation makes more sense.

Hmmmm...
What if we say the post-gatonden Ichigo who got bodied by the Asauchi was not only physically nerfed (like Renji - unusable zampakuto), but also mentally nerfed by his crisis of identity? In this case I think it wouldn't be that crazy for him to have dropped down to post-gantonden Renji's level or below, momentarily...
Emotional amps and nerfs are also a common occurance in Bleach too, so this wouldn't be too out of place, I suppose?

What do you think?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

But then later it's also flat out stated the reason Zabimaru lied to Renji was specifically because it didn't aknowledge his strength. Only after the training was virtually complete did Ichibe tell Renji its real name.

Are we then now to assume as well, using that post-gatonden Renji scaling to Ichigo, that Zabimaru would (hypothetically) also refuse to aknowledge Ichigo's strength at that point? The guy who fought almost toe to toe with base Yhwach? It just doesn't quite add up to me, narratively speaking...

I also think we shouldn't conflate "understanding their own powers" with "understanding who they even are". Sure, the 2 things are connected in the Bleach verse, but I wouldn't say they're the exact same.

Again, the Asauchi challenge is heavily implied by Ohetsu not to test the individual's strength or how much they understand their power ('cause during the challenge they're not even using their zampakuto (their power), they're both broken and unusable). The test is instead implied to test their conviction in themselves/their own identity - it's the whole reason Ohetsu sent Ichigo away to find himself in the first place, and why he aced the test once he returned.
It makes sense for Ichigo to lose that first time, since he was at a mentally vulnerable place at the time, at a point of low confidence - he was still grappling with Yhwach's comment about his mother.

Idk... contextually, I personally think this interpretation makes more sense.

Hmmmm...
What if we say the post-gatonden Ichigo who got bodied by the Asauchi was not only physically nerfed (like Renji - unusable zampakuto), but also mentally nerfed by his crisis of identity? In this case I think it wouldn't be that crazy for him to have dropped down to post-gantonden Renji's level or below, momentarily...
Emotional amps and nerfs are also a common occurance in Bleach too, so this wouldn't be too out of place, I suppose?

What do you think?

I’m going to be 100% I don’t really care, since it’s such a minor nitpick. I’m not conceding to your interpretation, I wholeheartedly disagree with it, but I’m going to put Renji on the back burner until we get more info on the Reiokyu training and see Renji perform. Since we will get both of those this cour 2.

I think you’re asserting some random power hierarchy in the Asauchi that isn’t implied to be there whatsoever. Especially with Renji’s and Ichigo’s understanding of being Shinigami having no proveable connection to the Asauchi strength. But we can continue this debate with the cour 2 revisions, until then I’m going to table the Renji stuff.

 

[MrBluePants]

Also, small detail I just noticed.

Post-gatonden Ichigo and Renji are implied to have reiatsu susbtancially above what they previously had, due to Hikifune's food, which checks out ofc. I agree.

But their zampakuto are still broken, so how would f.e. post-gatonden Ichigo scale above his Rage Amped FB Bankai?
Shouldn't there be a distinction between Post-Gatonden and Post-Hououden/Reforging?

'Cause if we say there's a distinction between the 2, then I may even agree with "post-gatonden Renji ~ post-gatonden Ichigo", if we consider his "mental debuff". But post-Hououden Ichigo should be EASILY waaaaaaaay past that and even waaaay past fully trained Renji with the real name of Zabimaru.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Also, small detail I just noticed.

Post-gatonden Ichigo and Renji are implied to have reiatsu susbtancially above what they previously had, due to Hikifune's food, which checks out ofc. I agree.

But their zampakuto are still broken, so how would f.e. post-gatonden Ichigo scale above his Rage Amped FB Bankai?
Shouldn't there be a distinction between Post-Gatonden and Post-Hououden/Reforging?

'Cause if we say there's a distinction between the 2, then I may even agree with "post-gatonden Renji ~ post-gatonden Ichigo", if we consider his "mental debuff". But post-Hououden Ichigo should be EASILY waaaaaaaay past that and even waaaay past fully trained Renji with the real name of Zabimaru.

If you read up a little bit I said I only meant to scale them above pre-rage amp, but I did distinguish it, hence post-Gantonden

 

[MrBluePants]

I think you’re asserting some random power hierarchy in the Asauchi that isn’t implied to be there whatsoever. Especially with Renji’s and Ichigo’s understanding of being Shinigami having no proveable connection to the Asauchi strength. But we can continue this debate with the cour 2 revisions, until then I’m going to table the Renji stuff.

Btw, to be perfectly clear, I never said there was a power hierarchy in the Asauchi, that's you putting words in my mouth tbh.

I said this:
"I think it's more plausible that the Asauchi specifically targetted Ichigo way more than Renji, given the context of Ichigo's mental state in that point in time."

Maybe I wasn't explicit enough, but I meant in numbers. As in, way more Asauchi were jumping Ichigo than Renji. Not necessarily Asauchi being stronger when fighting Ichigo, that makes no sense obviously.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Btw, to be perfectly clear, I never said there was a power hierarchy in the Asauchi, that's you putting words in my mouth tbh.

I said this:
"I think it's more plausible that the Asauchi specifically targetted Ichigo way more than Renji, given the context of Ichigo's mental state in that point in time."

Maybe I wasn't explicit enough, but I meant in numbers. As in, way more Asauchi were jumping Ichigo than Renji. Not necessarily Asauchi being stronger when fighting Ichigo, that makes no sense obviously.

We see about the same amount of Asauchi attacking both when they fight so I disagree

 

[MrBluePants]

If you read up a little bit I said I only meant to scale them above pre-rage amp, but I did distinguish it, hence post-Gantonden

And mb on this, I focused too much on this "Post-Gantonden Ichigo > Rage amp Bankai Ichigo".

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

And mb on this, I focused too much on this "Post-Gantonden Ichigo > Rage amp Bankai Ichigo".

Nw I can’t update anything yet cuz I’m at work

 

[MrBluePants]

We see about the same amount of Asauchi attacking both when they fight so I disagree

At first, perhaps, but the bulk of the fight was off-screen. I suppose there's no way to prove it.

 

[That_moron2]

What do you plan to do about EBTR?0

 

[MrBluePants]

Nw I can’t update anything yet cuz I’m at work

Now that I think of it... what may have thrown me off too is that you included this: "Old Man Zangetsu stopped suppressing Ichigo’s power and relinquished Ichigo’s true Zanpakuto", which happens after the reforging.
And that's why "Post-Gantonden Ichigo > Rage amp Bankai Ichigo" seemed perfectly fine for me at first reading - I assumed you included the reforging buff.
Then when I got to "Post-Gantonden Renji ~ Post-Gantonden Ichigo" is where it messed me up, 'cause obviously post-reforging Ichigo claps the strongest version of Renji.

So if I may suggest, making the distinction between post-gatonden and post-reforging would remove any chances for confusion/misinterpretation.

But again, everything else seems perfect.
And don't get me wrong, I'm all for the Renji agenda. Man gets too much hate. I'm just iffy on that scaling method specifically atm.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Now that I think of it... what may have thrown me off too is that you included this: "Old Man Zangetsu stopped suppressing Ichigo’s power and relinquished Ichigo’s true Zanpakuto", which happens after the reforging.
And that's why "Post-Gantonden Ichigo > Rage amp Bankai Ichigo" seemed perfectly fine for me at first reading - I assumed you included the reforging buff.
Then when I got to "Post-Gantonden Renji ~ Post-Gantonden Ichigo" is where it messed me up, 'cause obviously post-reforging Ichigo claps the strongest version of Renji.

So if I may suggest, making the distinction between post-gatonden and post-reforging would remove any chances for confusion/misinterpretation.

But again, everything else seems perfect.
And don't get me wrong, I'm all for the Renji agenda. Man gets too much hate. I'm just iffy on that scaling method specifically atm.

Yeah I gotchu

 

[zylieo]

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

My schrift got extended to an earlier start tomorrow morning so I’ll get to updating everything based on the discussion tomorrow evening

 

[zylieo]

My schrift got extended

Bro is tryna apply Bleach logic into real world events

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Autocorrect doing me dirty, I meant shift

 

[That_moron2]

Autocorrect doing me dirty, I meant shift

Cap.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

The “A” - Arc7Kuroi

 

[That_moron2]

The “A” - Arc7Kuroi

The "P" - Procrastinator

 

[JohnCenaNation]

Are you sure Post-Gantonden Ichigo isn't above Saigo no Getsuga Tenshō Ichigo? Because that is what Kirio's statement meant that as she wasn't being specific on the version of Ichigo.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Are you sure Post-Gantonden Ichigo isn't above Saigo no Getsuga Tenshō Ichigo? Because that is what Kirio's statement meant that as she wasn't being specific on the version of Ichigo.

Let’s let the remaining of the Reiokyu training get fleshed out before we make too hasty of a conclusion