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Bleach: Possibly ability addition for Gerald, Toshiro, Yhwach and Soul King

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Also we are not looking straight into his statement. He said "all matter" also can be interpreted as "all things/substance" cease to function. Yeah it's an 💯 powernull.
 
Also we are not looking straight into his statement. He said "all matter" also can be interpreted as "all things/substance" cease to function. Yeah it's an 💯 powernull.
Now we have to give powerful null resistance to As Nodt for his power didn't cease to function after Rukia froze him. Also power null to all ice users against Bleach characters because ice negates matter and powers.
 
FTL Renji for the Win!

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Delete this here and send it in Bleach thread. 😂. You mistakenly send it here
 
My problem with this interpretation makes the characters know something that they have no knowledge of and that was not mentioned by a character before Hitsugaya mocked Gerard's statement. It is flavory language.
He mocked Gerard's statement when he said Your Hope is gone, that could be read as flavory language because it isn't offering any explanation. The statement before that however isn't flowery at all, its a very direct statement that offers an explanation for what's going on.
I don't think the logic you use is definitely better. you say it's perfectly natural to ignore the causality manipulation with the damage reflecting ability sort of causality manipulation and normally freezing through. how come you look at the way the damage done to the sword is reflected on the opponent how come you are claiming that damage reflection is no longer functional because it is normally just covered in ice seriously I don't understand. It doesn't make any sense at all. Gerard wouldn't be surprised if any of the ice blocked his Hope ability anyway. Gerard thinks that when Toshiro cuts, he will split in two because that's how the ability works, to claim that such an ability doesn't work with just covering it with ice and an ordinary ice covering is totally against my logic. So why should a damage reflection be blocked by an ordinary ice, gerard's ability that creates the ability is ordinary we ice So he doesn't know that he's going to freeze with it? How is ice cream with ice different from cutting with a sword? should it work for one, not the other? It's much more head canon to think that Gerard's talent can be canceled with any ice, in my opinion, I am sure that the people here think like me, and if you say you disagree, there is still nothing we can do to convince you.
I'm looking at it this way because I'm using all of the information provided in regards to the feat. And what you're arguing is honestly no more valid than what I'm doing.

I'm saying that Gerard's sword can't use its damage reflection when frozen because that's the explanation we're given in series:
Gerard's damage reflection doesn't affect Toshiro+ Matter ceases to function when frozen statement right after that
=
Gerard's sword doesn't function when frozen.
What you're saying is this:

Gerard's damage reflection doesn't affect Toshiro+ Matter ceases to function when frozen statement right after that
=
Toshiro posses the ability to powernull the powers of others when freezing them

As far as we've been shown in series, all Toshiro's ever been able to do with his ice is just freeze things. Suddenly being able to freeze an abstract concept such as hope has no precedence nor does it make sense given what's been previously established with Toshiro.
Also we are not looking straight into his statement. He said "all matter" also can be interpreted as "all things/substance" cease to function. Yeah it's an 💯 powernull.
Sure it can be interpreted as that, but what reason is there to further complicate his answer like that? Toshiro has always been direct when it comes to his explanation for how his power works. He explains his attacks to Hierebell, talks about the difference between his shikai and bankai with Bazz-B we have no reason to read further into his statement.

My point is that Toshiro gives us an explanation for the why of what's going on, and his explanation does not support him having power nullification. With his given explanation, the ice doesn't have to have power-null to stop Gerard's sword from working, instead, Gerard's sword can't function when frozen because its matter. This feat no longer qualifies as power nullification when the explanation for the feat makes what occurred not an application of Toshiro's powers but an exploitation of how someone else's power functions.

Now we have to give powerful null resistance to As Nodt for his power didn't cease to function after Rukia froze him. Also power null to all ice users against Bleach characters because ice negates matter and powers.
That's not at all what I'm saying. There's a reason why I keep saying this is a weakness of the sword, because going with this train of thought doesn't conflict with anything set-up by the manga, and is directly supported by everything we're provided in this battle. The assumption of power-nullification for Toshiro pointedly ignores or makes Toshiro's statement out to be more than it actually is.

More mod entries are needed. If the only mod is in duate, the discussion will not end and it will not be accepted as a result. That's why we need mods who think like us.
The point isn't to have mods that just agree with you, but to have mods who check the validity of the claims being proposed. But I've stated my stance as I clearly could have on the power null and resistance to powernull aspects of the OP, I don't approve it.
So feel free to ask other mods to throw their hat into the ring on this one.
 
My point is that Toshiro gives us an explanation for the why of what's going on, and his explanation does not support him having power nullification. With his given explanation, the ice doesn't have to have power-null to stop Gerard's sword from working, instead, Gerard's sword can't function when frozen because its matter. This feat no longer qualifies as power nullification when the explanation for the feat makes what occurred not an application of Toshiro's powers but an exploitation of how someone else's power functions.
Ah okay, I see where we are now.

I agree the sword is matter kinda since we could get into it being matter or people's hope's given form as a sword. But it has a supernatural function as stated by Big man G himself. So why would freezing the matter itself stop the supernatural function that it's displayed so far?
 
Ah okay, I see where we are now.

I agree the sword is matter kinda since we could get into it being matter or people's hope's given form as a sword. But it has a supernatural function as stated by Big man G himself. So why would freezing the matter itself stop the supernatural function that it's displayed so far?
Because that's just how it works is my best explanation for it.

And while I think that's dumb, that's pretty much the same train of thought that assuming that Toshiro has powernull with his matured bankai's ice ends up with. The lack of further context, explanation or showings leaves us without much explanation at all for the why of any of this.
 
He mocked Gerard's statement when he said Your Hope is gone, that could be read as flavory language because it isn't offering any explanation. The statement before that however isn't flowery at all, its a very direct statement that offers an explanation for what's going on.
The mods have agreed before in the past of statements that offer powers explanation in Bleach as been flavory language. This isn't any different.
 
That's not at all what I'm saying. There's a reason why I keep saying this is a weakness of the sword,
Where in the manga is stated that the sword's weakness is ice? Toshiro mentioned “all matter”.
because going with this train of thought doesn't conflict with anything set-up by the manga,
It contradicts the writing style of the author set up and the fact that Toshiro has no knowledge of this sword's weakness.
and is directly supported by everything we're provided in this battle.
Such as?
The assumption of power-nullification for Toshiro pointedly ignores or makes Toshiro's statement out to be more than it actually is.
You mean like the author making the characters tell each other their powers in battle so they can perfectly counter beach other? Or how Kenpachi makes fun of Gerard for this very fact at the start of their battle?
 
Can we stop derailing with the Toshiro stuff and talk about the OPs proposal, make a downgrade thread for him if it bothers you so.
 
Can we stop derailing with the Toshiro stuff and talk about the OPs proposal, make a downgrade thread for him if it bothers you so.
^^^^

I'm not even gonna bother asking what people think of other proposals for Gerard and SK in this thread if fricking power null for matured bankai toshiro is a contentious topic already LMAOO
 
We should just wait for the Databooks, to see whether they backup Gerards hope statements or not, were not getting him Abstract Existence and honestly being charitable i'd agree with a Possibly.
 
He mocked Gerard's statement when he said Your Hope is gone, that could be read as flavory language because it isn't offering any explanation. The statement before that however isn't flowery at all, its a very direct statement that offers an explanation for what's going on.

I'm looking at it this way because I'm using all of the information provided in regards to the feat. And what you're arguing is honestly no more valid than what I'm doing.

I'm saying that Gerard's sword can't use its damage reflection when frozen because that's the explanation we're given in series:
Gerard's damage reflection doesn't affect Toshiro+ Matter ceases to function when frozen statement right after that
=
Gerard's sword doesn't function when frozen.
What you're saying is this:

Gerard's damage reflection doesn't affect Toshiro+ Matter ceases to function when frozen statement right after that
=
Toshiro posses the ability to powernull the powers of others when freezing them

As far as we've been shown in series, all Toshiro's ever been able to do with his ice is just freeze things. Suddenly being able to freeze an abstract concept such as hope has no precedence nor does it make sense given what's been previously established with Toshiro.

Sure it can be interpreted as that, but what reason is there to further complicate his answer like that? Toshiro has always been direct when it comes to his explanation for how his power works. He explains his attacks to Hierebell, talks about the difference between his shikai and bankai with Bazz-B we have no reason to read further into his statement.


My point is that Toshiro gives us an explanation for the why of what's going on, and his explanation does not support him having power nullification. With his given explanation, the ice doesn't have to have power-null to stop Gerard's sword from working, instead, Gerard's sword can't function when frozen because its matter. This feat no longer qualifies as power nullification when the explanation for the feat makes what occurred not an application of Toshiro's powers but an exploitation of how someone else's power functions.


That's not at all what I'm saying. There's a reason why I keep saying this is a weakness of the sword, because going with this train of thought doesn't conflict with anything set-up by the manga, and is directly supported by everything we're provided in this battle. The assumption of power-nullification for Toshiro pointedly ignores or makes Toshiro's statement out to be more than it actually is.


The point isn't to have mods that just agree with you, but to have mods who check the validity of the claims being proposed. But I've stated my stance as I clearly could have on the power null and resistance to powernull aspects of the OP, I don't approve it.
So feel free to ask other mods to throw their hat into the ring on this one.
Really bro as I said if someone freeze Ger who can revert things then his power won't works what would you consider that?.

Feats are directly showing it as powernull. Also gerald thing. He explained miracles can make impossible possible. He even broke out of Toshiro flash freeze but Toshiro still froze him to the point Byakuya can fodderise him regardless.

Again Toshiro statement is more of an punchline as Owner of the Sword Gerald states it would reflect on him.

You are saying spiritual matter but you should know not all can just freeze something and powernull things.

We can just consider "all matter" as "all things/substance". It also makes more sense.
 
1.He nullified the ap and durability of huffnug. He was able to causally cutt through it after it froze when kenpachi who scales much higher could barley nick it.

2.He can nullify the effects of matter and energy. Shown when froze Gerards light arrow rendering it useless and when Gerard crumbled to pieces after being frozen.


Nothing else to say
 
That's a different thing. I don't know why people always brings up Reatsu powernull. Because Toshiro ice is different thing. So why didn't Kenpachi Powernulled Hoffnung? He has more reatsu in the beginning 🗿
Thats what i meant. Its two seperate Powernull methods but its just listed next to each other, unless u want powernull manip listed twice in his P&A

Yea i wasn't on board with passive powernull reiatsu myself but some how it got through🤷‍♂️
 
Thats what i meant. Its two seperate Powernull methods but its just listed next to each other, unless u want powernull manip listed twice in his P&A

Yea i wasn't on board with passive powernull reiatsu myself but some how it got through🤷‍♂️
I agree with Reastu Powernull but the difference should be too high. And Toshiro needs resistance negation for Powernull. Gerald had Probability manipulation based on miracle he still froze him.
 
That last point makes no sense. He broke out of his ice so why is Toshiro getting resistance negation?
Later he completely negated his durability and resistance. Gerald stated he can't be frozen. I already posted the scans in OP. Also look at the last scan. Gerald was fodderised to the point he needed to revive himself from spirit particles.
 
Later he completely negated his durability and resistance. Gerald stated he can't be frozen. I already posted the scans in OP. Also look at the last scan. Gerald was fodderised to the point he needed to revive himself from spirit particles.
but he came back from the powernull cuz of the Miracle. Aren't you arguing resistance negation for powernull? You can't do that when Gerard came back from it.
 
but he came back from the powernull cuz of the Miracle. Aren't you arguing resistance negation for powernull? You can't do that when Gerard came back from it.
You didn't understand what i said. You do know level of resistance exist? Gerald Resistance to powernull was negated by Toshiro
 
I'm unsure about Abstract Existence, it says nothing about the Miracle specifically regenerating Gerald from the hopes of others from the scans I'm reading. It even says on his profile that he regenerated from the Reishi around him, not the literal hope of others.

Probability Manipulation looks possible. It does just looks like he's being poetic honestly and he still admitted he could sense them but only slightly, it's just that him searching would be as he explained a nigh impossible task. You could make the argument that if the Miracle is suppose to be "hope" then it could be argued he manipulated probability so I guess possible Probability Manipulation is applicable here. Unless Gerald is the poetic type but he doesn't seem like that completely.

Damage Transferal seems fine to me.
 
I'm unsure about Abstract Existence, it says nothing about the Miracle specifically regenerating Gerald from the hopes of others from the scans I'm reading. It even says on his profile that he regenerated from the Reishi around him, not the literal hope of others.
First. Thanks for commenting here. It's a great help.

1. Actually he states Miracle is humanity Wishes given form. And fear and hope are derived from it. Miracle/wishes he refers as humanity concepts. Btw feats perfomed by him clearly backs up AE.

It's kinda pretty much suits for AE type 2 because he can be interacted but he embodies fear as a concept for his body.
Probability Manipulation looks possible. It does just looks like he's being poetic honestly and he still admitted he could sense them but only slightly, it's just that him searching would be as he explained a nigh impossible task. You could make the argument that if the Miracle is suppose to be "hope" then it could be argued he manipulated probability so I guess possible Probability Manipulation is applicable here. Unless Gerald is the poetic type but he doesn't seem like that completely.
Yeah it seems like poetic from outside. But he did things which shouldn't be possible. I don't remember him being poetic but he sure talks too much. 😂
Damage Transferal seems fine to me.
Ok.

Btw what do you think about Toshiro.
1. Powernull ( Powernulled Hoffnung)
2. Greater Resistance negation ( negated gerald resistance)
3. Durability negation ( completely negated Durability of gerald and made it possible for Byakuya to strike him down)
 
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If a character is considered to teleport 1,4000 light years in seconds. and is compared to match the speed of a spaceship that can travel the same distance in 10 seconds. At the same time that character can use this teloportation technique in battle while been compared to be faster than the sun can reflect in a mirror, is any of this consider lightspeed? Crossing such distance in ten seconds is 4% LS right?
Wrong thread 😸
 
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