Bleach: Possibly ability addition for Gerald, Toshiro, Yhwach and Soul King

[EldemadeDityjon]

1. Abstract existence type 2 with the help of Miracle. He can exist as long fear exist in people heart. Resurrection
Gerald was shown to resurect from completely destroyed with the help of Miracle.

Type 2: Embodies an abstraction, and can be resurrected or regenerate indefinitely thanks to it. Destroying the abstraction is required to permanently kill those characters, but they can still be affected without directly altering it.

Abstract Existence

Abstract Existence is the ability to embody an abstraction, such as a concept, thought, or information, and being immortal thanks to it. This power has a variety of uses, ranging from a high degree of control over the abstraction and its manifestations, the aforementioned immortality, or even...

vsbattles.fandom.com

2. Probability manipulation with the help of Miracle. Can make impossible things possible.



3. I don't know which category this comes but his sword is made up of hope of the people and it will falls down as despair for whoever damages it.

I believe Damage Transferal suits this technique.



4. Greater Powernull and durability negation.

Adult Toshiro can powernull all elements and matter and completely froze Gerald who already has resistance to powernull and negate durability with his flash freeze. Negated gerald durability with flash freeze



5. Abstract existence type 2 for yhwach and Soul King.

It's stated yhwach completely absorbed Gerald powers which would mean he should be able to activate Miracle and use that and SK is because gerald was his heart.

https://imgur.com/a/dZI8tuk

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

disagree on abstract existance thats just type 8 immortality

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

disagree on abstract existance thats just type 8 immortality

Why it's clearly stated and has feats. Also it follows wiki explanation.

 

[Jibz]

2. Probability manipulation with the help of Miracle. Can make impossible things possible.

i don't see how this is probability manip. Isn't it just reactive evolution in the form of "miracles".

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

I agree with resurrection for Gerard. I dunno how it took us this long to give it to him.

Limited probability manipulation for Gerard should be fine.

Damage Transferal should work.

As for AE, imma just wait for further input before making any comments.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

i don't see how this is probability manip. Isn't it just reactive evolution in the form of "miracles".

He can make impossible possible. He found those people using his miracle which he stated impossible thing to do.

Reactive evolution is his body thats different.

You see his Miracle is Desire of people given form.
Fear makes him unkillable.

Fear is just a byproduct of miracle power. He can use miracle for other things too.

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

i don't see how this is probability manip. Isn't it just reactive evolution in the form of "miracles".

One instance of this functioning is Gerard was able to pinpoint the location of the vizard across the battlefield even when he deemed such a task "impossible" due to their faint reiatsu. (You could also make the case that Gerard's resistance to power null is because of this.)

Also Gerard's reactive evolution is already technically based on probability manip (Albeit, I consider it a limited application). He takes the fear of the masses like not being able to destroy him, into reality.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I agree with resurrection for Gerard. I dunno how it took us this long to give it to him.

Limited probability manipulation for Gerard should be fine.

Damage Transferal should work.

As for AE, imma just wait for further input before making any comments.

What about Toshiro? I think we should mention his powernull is not based on reiroku. He clearly Powernulled gerald with his abilities.

Btw Toshiro was able to freeze matter does that gives him any other abilities if yes tell me i will add it here only.

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

What about Toshiro? I think we should mention his powernull is not based on reiroku. He clearly Powernulled gerald with his abilities.

Btw Toshiro was able to freeze matter does that gives him any other abilities of yes tell me i will add it here only.

Hmm? does adult toshiro not have power null listed? O_____o

If so, I agree he should have it.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Hmm? does adult toshiro not have power null listed? O_____o

If so, I agree he should have it.

Yeah i checked his profile don't have powernull based on this. Also his powernull is stronger than baseline. He froze gerald with greater powernull even though gerald shown feats to resisting powernull before.

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

Limited reality warping can also work for Gerard instead of limited probability manip.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Limited reality warping can also work for Gerard instead of limited probability manip.

Let's see what others says then we will see. Is there any other abilities should be added for gerald?

 

[Jibz]

He can make impossible possible. He found those people using his miracle which he stated impossible thing to do.

Reactive evolution is his body thats different.

You see his Miracle is Desire of people given form.
Fear makes him unkillable.

Fear is just a byproduct of miracle power. He can use miracle for other things too.

ah read the wrong scans for it. I still disagree.

Firstly:

the task is described as "near impossible" if you complete a near impossible task, that does not give you prob manip.

Secondly:

"Did you think i wouldn't find you because its impossible"

Gerhard described the task as near impossible, he states the people hiding thought it was impossible. And even then, the people hiding didn't say it WAS impossible, it was Gerhard's assumption that they thought they wouldn't be caught.

"Achieving the impossible is what miracles are for"

Gerhard's ability is "The Miracle" not "miracles" and is referred to as such. This seems like clear wordplay on Gerhard's gimmick being miracles. Miracles are by definition make pathways that seem impossible to occur, to occur. But that doesn't directly translate to his ability. It's just wordplay.

 

[Jibz]

Also Gerard's reactive evolution is already technically based on probability manip (Albeit, I consider it a limited application). He takes the fear of the masses like not being able to destroy him, into reality.

How? Its just regen mixed with evolving to damage. Which is reactive evolution. Forgive me if i'm wrong, as i haven't read bleach in a while. But he doesn't have limited prob manip and the scans OP showed definitely aren't proof of it.

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

How? Its just regen mixed with evolving to damage. Which is reactive evolution. Forgive me if i'm wrong, as i haven't read bleach in a while. But he doesn't have limited prob manip and the scans OP showed definitely aren't proof of it.

You can interpret it as limited reality warping, if you'd like.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

ah read the wrong scans for it. I still disagree.

Firstly:

the task is described as "near impossible" if you complete a near impossible task, that does not give you prob manip.

1. Reastu is needed to locate them but he said it's too small he can't locate them.
2. He still able to locate them but he didn't used reastu perception he did that with miracle

Secondly:

"Did you think i wouldn't find you because its impossible"

Gerhard described the task as near impossible, he states the people hiding thought it was impossible. And even then, the people hiding didn't say it WAS impossible, it was Gerhard's assumption that they thought they wouldn't be caught.

"Achieving the impossible is what miracles are for"

Gerhard's ability is "The Miracle" not "miracles" and is referred to as such. This seems like clear wordplay on Gerhard's gimmick being miracles. Miracles are by definition make pathways that seem impossible to occur, to occur. But that doesn't directly translate to his ability. It's just wordplay.

It's clearly shows he can make impossible things possible.

You should read the scan again. He said picking each rubble and searching them is near impossible but he still finds them without doing all those. He directly finds them in one go.

Also miracle or miracles why would name matters ? He described whatever makes impossible things possible that's miracle.

 

[Jibz]

It's clearly shows he can make impossible things possible.

You should read the scan again. He said picking each rubble and searching them is near impossible but he still find them without doing all those. He directly finds them in one go.

Also miracle or miracles why would name matters ? He described whatever makes impossible things possible that's miracle.

At a second reading, it looks probable, but the statement of "scarcely sense them" is iffy to me. It means he would be able to sense them. You can argue the fact him pondering the likelihood of finding them by catching them to show how sensing them would be a moot point, and i won't say wether that'd be right or wrong. But its arguable in both cases.

I can see this being contentious, and as for now im leaning to disagreeing with prob manip. I'll wait for what others have to say, always good to have a diff perspective ya know.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

At a second reading, it looks probable, but the statement of "scarcely sense them" is iffy to me. It means he would be able to sense them. You can argue the fact him pondering the likelihood of finding them by catching them to show how sensing them would be a moot point, and i won't say wether that'd be right or wrong. But its arguable in both cases.

I can see this being contentious, and as for now im leaning to disagreeing with prob manip. I'll wait for what others have to say, always good to have a diff perspective ya know.

Bro he Clearly states he needs to pick up each rubble and search for them. Also he found them using miracle he didnt used any perception*

You get what i am saying.

 

[T2KBaka]

ah read the wrong scans for it. I still disagree.

Firstly:

the task is described as "near impossible" if you complete a near impossible task, that does not give you prob manip.

Secondly:

"Did you think i wouldn't find you because its impossible"

Gerhard described the task as near impossible, he states the people hiding thought it was impossible. And even then, the people hiding didn't say it WAS impossible, it was Gerhard's assumption that they thought they wouldn't be caught.

"Achieving the impossible is what miracles are for"

Gerhard's ability is "The Miracle" not "miracles" and is referred to as such. This seems like clear wordplay on Gerhard's gimmick being miracles. Miracles are by definition make pathways that seem impossible to occur, to occur. But that doesn't directly translate to his ability. It's just wordplay.

I'm sorry but that last reasoning makes no sense. Just cuz his ability is called "The Miracle" instead of "The Miracles" doesn't invalidate what he said.

Also he deemed it impossible which activated the Miracle. As Yomi said, you can even tie his reactive evolution to his Probability manipulation. The reason he got out was because it would've been "impossible" for him to get out of ability negating ice, but because of that he got out. He continuously mentions the term "Miracle" throughout all his fights, first when he got beat up by Renji and Byakuya, then with finding the vizards, then with Toshiro's ice.

He seems to be able to activate it at will by deeming something impossible, it seems like the less probable something is, the more likely the Miracle will make it happen.

I think he should get it, but whether it's regular or limited can be decided by everyone else. Though I'm leaning towards regular probability manipulation.

 

[Jibz]

I'm sorry but that last reasoning makes no sense. Just cuz his ability is called "The Miracle" instead of "The Miracles" doesn't invalidate what he said.

its wordplay.

 

[AppleLord]

How come Toshiro not have powernull over all elements that he controls in this form? Smh

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

How come Toshiro not have powernull over all elements that he controls in this form? Smh

Yeah. Forgot that. Let me add it in there.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Added durability negation scans for Adult Toshiro.

 

[AKUTO123]

I'm amazed by the wiki how toshiro hasn't given power null and dura negation so far either limited probability manipulate and agree with everything about toshiro.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I'm amazed by the wiki how toshiro hasn't given power null and dura negation so far either limited probability manipulate and agree with everything about toshiro.

Yeah. I also thought they already had those in their profile. But after checking many things are missing.

 

[T2KBaka]

its wordplay.

You can't dismiss it as wordplay when we see his ability in action. He has made the impossible possible. Unless I misread the wiki on what probability manipulation is, this is a perfect example of it.

Probability Manipulation

The ability to alter probability, allowing one to make the unlikely more likely to occur, and vice versa. This can take effect in a variety of different ways; it may appear as just supernatural luck, or can be more actively used for defense to make attacks inexplicably miss - and in the same...

vsbattles.fandom.com

On a greater scale, it can be used to manipulate quantum probability and can reach the level of powerful Reality Warping.

That's why you can argue probability manipulation along with his limited reality warping

He deems something impossible and it becomes possible cuz of the Miracle. Even Toshiro himself states that Gerard's power is beyond logic, and we see him continuously coming back when it would've been "impossible" for him to do so (Toshiro's ability negating Ice is the perfect example). That's why you can make the argument that his resistance to power null is due to the probability manipulation.

 

[Jibz]

You can't dismiss it as wordplay when we see his ability in action. He has made the impossible possible. Unless I misread the wiki on what probability manipulation is, this is a perfect example of it.

you can argue his ability to be probablity manip, but you can't argue that specific quote not being wordplay. Its a play on his ability and miracles. That's all. It can be used as supporting evidence, sure. But that's all. There's nothing definitive in that specific quote. Which is what i was clarifying when i stated "it's wordplay" it was in reference to the specific quote, that you targeted in my argument.

 

[T2KBaka]

you can argue his ability to be probablity manip, but you can't argue that specific quote not being wordplay. Its a play on his ability and miracles. That's all. It can be used as supporting evidence, sure. But that's all. There's nothing definitive in that specific quote. Which is what i was clarifying when i stated "it's wordplay" it was in reference to the specific quote, that you targeted in my argument.

I misunderstood what you meant then. I thought that you were dismissing it in general. Sure it's wordplay, but that's all related to his ability "The Miracle". That's why he goes on and on about what miracles are.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Either way. Miracle shown to make impossible possible that's all matters now. He should get probability manipulation for that.

 

[KazuiK]

I agree. Strange Toshiro not having power nullification, I swear I saw him in profile a while ago. I agree with probability manipulation and limited reality alteration.

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

What do you guys think about AE tho via miracle?

 

[Duedate8898]

Why would Toshiro have power null?

 

[Luziifero]

Why would Toshiro have power null?

his ice nullifies any abilities it touches

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

Why would Toshiro have power null?

What he freezes, loses function. (Matured Bankai only)

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

agree. Strange Toshiro not having power nullification, I swear I saw him in profile a while ago.

Right? O____o

 

[Duedate8898]

Power Null is currently on his profile for his Matured Bankai, though I do personally take some issues with it.

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

though I do personally take some issues with it.

Why's that?

We saw it work on Gerard's hoffnung, Hoffnung transfers damage done onto it as injury to those who damages it. When Toshiro flash froze it and sliced it apart, the effects didn't work.

The reason why it didn't work on Gerard himself is because he has resistance to power null.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Power Null is currently on his profile for his Matured Bankai, though I do personally take some issues with it.

Gerald hoffnung can reflect damage. It's a sword made up concept of hope and when damaged falls down on enemies like despair he legit Powernulled and didn't got affected by it. Also he broke it like nothing. Scans are already posted above.

 

[Duedate8898]

My issue is that Toshiro's explanation for why the power stopped working wasn't that he nullified its ability. He himself explains it as that matter when frozen it ceases to function. Essentially it makes it sound like Toshiro just circumvented Gerald's sword power, instead of directly nullifying it.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

My issue is that Toshiro's explanation for why the power stopped working wasn't that he nullified its ability. He himself explains it as that matter when frozen it ceases to function. Essentially it makes it sound like Toshiro just circumvented Gerald's sword power, instead of directly nullifying it.

Breaking the sword = recieving damage

Toshiro used his power and cut the sword in half, receiving no damage from the swords ability

That's pretty text book power nullification

Saying that the sword had a weakness or that there was a way to get around it, when nowhere in the manga is that stated or presented is kinda headcanon