EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,916
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Also we are not looking straight into his statement. He said "all matter" also can be interpreted as "all things/substance" cease to function. Yeah it's an powernull.
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Now we have to give powerful null resistance to As Nodt for his power didn't cease to function after Rukia froze him. Also power null to all ice users against Bleach characters because ice negates matter and powers.Also we are not looking straight into his statement. He said "all matter" also can be interpreted as "all things/substance" cease to function. Yeah it's an powernull.
Delete this here and send it in Bleach thread. . You mistakenly send it hereFTL Renji for the Win!
He mocked Gerard's statement when he said Your Hope is gone, that could be read as flavory language because it isn't offering any explanation. The statement before that however isn't flowery at all, its a very direct statement that offers an explanation for what's going on.My problem with this interpretation makes the characters know something that they have no knowledge of and that was not mentioned by a character before Hitsugaya mocked Gerard's statement. It is flavory language.
I'm looking at it this way because I'm using all of the information provided in regards to the feat. And what you're arguing is honestly no more valid than what I'm doing.I don't think the logic you use is definitely better. you say it's perfectly natural to ignore the causality manipulation with the damage reflecting ability sort of causality manipulation and normally freezing through. how come you look at the way the damage done to the sword is reflected on the opponent how come you are claiming that damage reflection is no longer functional because it is normally just covered in ice seriously I don't understand. It doesn't make any sense at all. Gerard wouldn't be surprised if any of the ice blocked his Hope ability anyway. Gerard thinks that when Toshiro cuts, he will split in two because that's how the ability works, to claim that such an ability doesn't work with just covering it with ice and an ordinary ice covering is totally against my logic. So why should a damage reflection be blocked by an ordinary ice, gerard's ability that creates the ability is ordinary we ice So he doesn't know that he's going to freeze with it? How is ice cream with ice different from cutting with a sword? should it work for one, not the other? It's much more head canon to think that Gerard's talent can be canceled with any ice, in my opinion, I am sure that the people here think like me, and if you say you disagree, there is still nothing we can do to convince you.
Sure it can be interpreted as that, but what reason is there to further complicate his answer like that? Toshiro has always been direct when it comes to his explanation for how his power works. He explains his attacks to Hierebell, talks about the difference between his shikai and bankai with Bazz-B we have no reason to read further into his statement.Also we are not looking straight into his statement. He said "all matter" also can be interpreted as "all things/substance" cease to function. Yeah it's an powernull.
My point is that Toshiro gives us an explanation for the why of what's going on, and his explanation does not support him having power nullification. With his given explanation, the ice doesn't have to have power-null to stop Gerard's sword from working, instead, Gerard's sword can't function when frozen because its matter. This feat no longer qualifies as power nullification when the explanation for the feat makes what occurred not an application of Toshiro's powers but an exploitation of how someone else's power functions.But the thing here is that Toshiro proceeds to cut it in half and we know from earlier that Kenpachi had damage reflected to him after cutting the sword. So the ice power nulled the sword since Toshiro cut clean through it without any problems being reflected and says that the hope has stopped working after he froze it. This also fits under the definition of power nullification that is used on VSbattles Wiki.
Or am I missing your point in this?
That's not at all what I'm saying. There's a reason why I keep saying this is a weakness of the sword, because going with this train of thought doesn't conflict with anything set-up by the manga, and is directly supported by everything we're provided in this battle. The assumption of power-nullification for Toshiro pointedly ignores or makes Toshiro's statement out to be more than it actually is.Now we have to give powerful null resistance to As Nodt for his power didn't cease to function after Rukia froze him. Also power null to all ice users against Bleach characters because ice negates matter and powers.
The point isn't to have mods that just agree with you, but to have mods who check the validity of the claims being proposed. But I've stated my stance as I clearly could have on the power null and resistance to powernull aspects of the OP, I don't approve it.More mod entries are needed. If the only mod is in duate, the discussion will not end and it will not be accepted as a result. That's why we need mods who think like us.
Ah okay, I see where we are now.My point is that Toshiro gives us an explanation for the why of what's going on, and his explanation does not support him having power nullification. With his given explanation, the ice doesn't have to have power-null to stop Gerard's sword from working, instead, Gerard's sword can't function when frozen because its matter. This feat no longer qualifies as power nullification when the explanation for the feat makes what occurred not an application of Toshiro's powers but an exploitation of how someone else's power functions.
Because that's just how it works is my best explanation for it.Ah okay, I see where we are now.
I agree the sword is matter kinda since we could get into it being matter or people's hope's given form as a sword. But it has a supernatural function as stated by Big man G himself. So why would freezing the matter itself stop the supernatural function that it's displayed so far?
The mods have agreed before in the past of statements that offer powers explanation in Bleach as been flavory language. This isn't any different.He mocked Gerard's statement when he said Your Hope is gone, that could be read as flavory language because it isn't offering any explanation. The statement before that however isn't flowery at all, its a very direct statement that offers an explanation for what's going on.
Where in the manga is stated that the sword's weakness is ice? Toshiro mentioned “all matter”.That's not at all what I'm saying. There's a reason why I keep saying this is a weakness of the sword,
It contradicts the writing style of the author set up and the fact that Toshiro has no knowledge of this sword's weakness.because going with this train of thought doesn't conflict with anything set-up by the manga,
Such as?and is directly supported by everything we're provided in this battle.
You mean like the author making the characters tell each other their powers in battle so they can perfectly counter beach other? Or how Kenpachi makes fun of Gerard for this very fact at the start of their battle?The assumption of power-nullification for Toshiro pointedly ignores or makes Toshiro's statement out to be more than it actually is.
^^^^Can we stop derailing with the Toshiro stuff and talk about the OPs proposal, make a downgrade thread for him if it bothers you so.
Limited probability manip or Limited reality warping.I only care about the probability manipulation part for Gerard, I definitely feel that should be a thing for him.
Really bro as I said if someone freeze Ger who can revert things then his power won't works what would you consider that?.He mocked Gerard's statement when he said Your Hope is gone, that could be read as flavory language because it isn't offering any explanation. The statement before that however isn't flowery at all, its a very direct statement that offers an explanation for what's going on.
I'm looking at it this way because I'm using all of the information provided in regards to the feat. And what you're arguing is honestly no more valid than what I'm doing.
I'm saying that Gerard's sword can't use its damage reflection when frozen because that's the explanation we're given in series:
Gerard's damage reflection doesn't affect Toshiro+ Matter ceases to function when frozen statement right after that
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Gerard's sword doesn't function when frozen.
What you're saying is this:
Gerard's damage reflection doesn't affect Toshiro+ Matter ceases to function when frozen statement right after that
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Toshiro posses the ability to powernull the powers of others when freezing them
As far as we've been shown in series, all Toshiro's ever been able to do with his ice is just freeze things. Suddenly being able to freeze an abstract concept such as hope has no precedence nor does it make sense given what's been previously established with Toshiro.
Sure it can be interpreted as that, but what reason is there to further complicate his answer like that? Toshiro has always been direct when it comes to his explanation for how his power works. He explains his attacks to Hierebell, talks about the difference between his shikai and bankai with Bazz-B we have no reason to read further into his statement.
My point is that Toshiro gives us an explanation for the why of what's going on, and his explanation does not support him having power nullification. With his given explanation, the ice doesn't have to have power-null to stop Gerard's sword from working, instead, Gerard's sword can't function when frozen because its matter. This feat no longer qualifies as power nullification when the explanation for the feat makes what occurred not an application of Toshiro's powers but an exploitation of how someone else's power functions.
That's not at all what I'm saying. There's a reason why I keep saying this is a weakness of the sword, because going with this train of thought doesn't conflict with anything set-up by the manga, and is directly supported by everything we're provided in this battle. The assumption of power-nullification for Toshiro pointedly ignores or makes Toshiro's statement out to be more than it actually is.
The point isn't to have mods that just agree with you, but to have mods who check the validity of the claims being proposed. But I've stated my stance as I clearly could have on the power null and resistance to powernull aspects of the OP, I don't approve it.
So feel free to ask other mods to throw their hat into the ring on this one.
So if he froze Ger (Jojo) and Ger power doesn't work it's still just ice weakeness.Toshiro will probably use his powers again in the Hell Arc. But of course, people will just claim whatever he nulls to have ice weakness.
Wait this isn't about Toshiro having powernull or not?Can we stop derailing with the Toshiro stuff and talk about the OPs proposal, make a downgrade thread for him if it bothers you so.
I thought this was about it this whole time.he already has it
He doesn't have it. He has normal reatsu Powernull not this.he already has it
I thought this was about it this whole time.
He doesn't have it. He has normal reatsu Powernull not this.
It will be remove. Hehehe.he already has it
Why?It will be remove. Hehehe.
He does have it, powernull via reiatsu is just another addition alongside itHe doesn't have it. He has normal reatsu Powernull not this.
That's a different thing. I don't know why people always brings up Reatsu powernull. Because Toshiro ice is different thing. So why didn't Kenpachi Powernulled Hoffnung? He has more reatsu in the beginningHe does have it, powernull via reiatsu is just another addition alongside it
Thats what i meant. Its two seperate Powernull methods but its just listed next to each other, unless u want powernull manip listed twice in his P&AThat's a different thing. I don't know why people always brings up Reatsu powernull. Because Toshiro ice is different thing. So why didn't Kenpachi Powernulled Hoffnung? He has more reatsu in the beginning
I agree with Reastu Powernull but the difference should be too high. And Toshiro needs resistance negation for Powernull. Gerald had Probability manipulation based on miracle he still froze him.Thats what i meant. Its two seperate Powernull methods but its just listed next to each other, unless u want powernull manip listed twice in his P&A
Yea i wasn't on board with passive powernull reiatsu myself but some how it got through
I agree with Reastu Powernull but the difference should be too high. And Toshiro needs resistance negation for Powernull. Gerald had Probability manipulation based on miracle he still froze him.
Later he completely negated his durability and resistance. Gerald stated he can't be frozen. I already posted the scans in OP. Also look at the last scan. Gerald was fodderised to the point he needed to revive himself from spirit particles.That last point makes no sense. He broke out of his ice so why is Toshiro getting resistance negation?
but he came back from the powernull cuz of the Miracle. Aren't you arguing resistance negation for powernull? You can't do that when Gerard came back from it.Later he completely negated his durability and resistance. Gerald stated he can't be frozen. I already posted the scans in OP. Also look at the last scan. Gerald was fodderised to the point he needed to revive himself from spirit particles.
You didn't understand what i said. You do know level of resistance exist? Gerald Resistance to powernull was negated by Toshirobut he came back from the powernull cuz of the Miracle. Aren't you arguing resistance negation for powernull? You can't do that when Gerard came back from it.
First. Thanks for commenting here. It's a great help.I'm unsure about Abstract Existence, it says nothing about the Miracle specifically regenerating Gerald from the hopes of others from the scans I'm reading. It even says on his profile that he regenerated from the Reishi around him, not the literal hope of others.
Yeah it seems like poetic from outside. But he did things which shouldn't be possible. I don't remember him being poetic but he sure talks too much.Probability Manipulation looks possible. It does just looks like he's being poetic honestly and he still admitted he could sense them but only slightly, it's just that him searching would be as he explained a nigh impossible task. You could make the argument that if the Miracle is suppose to be "hope" then it could be argued he manipulated probability so I guess possible Probability Manipulation is applicable here. Unless Gerald is the poetic type but he doesn't seem like that completely.
Ok.Damage Transferal seems fine to me.
Wrong threadIf a character is considered to teleport 1,4000 light years in seconds. and is compared to match the speed of a spaceship that can travel the same distance in 10 seconds. At the same time that character can use this teloportation technique in battle while been compared to be faster than the sun can reflect in a mirror, is any of this consider lightspeed? Crossing such distance in ten seconds is 4% LS right?
Oops , sorryWrong thread