Bleach: God Tier ability Upgrades.

[LordGinSama]

Well let's run this back since the last thread was ass to be frank.



Type 4 Acausality addition

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The Soul King and Yhwach should both get Type 4 Acausality due to working on a different system of causality than the rest of the modern-day verse.


For starters, The Soul King was born before creation of the 3 realms where the entire state of the cosmology was ambiguous and very different than the current state of the universe. Everything back in the time of the Soul King was completely different than what it is today, with concepts such as life and death not being created yet and stagnation and progression flickered and and forth, with it also being directly stated that The Soul King transcended everything.

This is furthered by the fact that Orihime who manipulates causality was unable to effect even a weakened Soul King. Refer back to the statement of the Soul King being stated to have transcended everything, along with the universe he's from being fundamentally different than the modern day universe.


There's even evidence in this with the likes of Mimihagi who has very similar characteristics to someone with Type 4 Acausality, being that he's resistant to abilities such as Precognition.

Scaling

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This is straightforward, those who'd gain Type 4 Acausality would be The Soul King and Yhwach respectively. The Soul King for the aforementioned reasons and Yhwach due to absorbing the Soul King's entire existence.

 

[Arcker123]

Follow

 

[Hellscream]

Agreed

 

[KingNanaya]

makes sense, I agree

 

[Crobatman44]

Follow,btw is this the right time to make this?

 

[Arcker123]

Also Ichibei should probably scale to this since he also predates the universe and all of its laws.

 

[Worthless]

So basically, this is just an assumption supported by one feat, which can be interpreted as resistance due to being GOD rather than what the OP suggested. Many characters have existed before the creation of everything, yet I've never seen them designated as Acausality type 4. Some have even been described as transcending the world, but nobody assumes it also implies transcending causality and fate themselves.

 

[Maitreya12]

I think there’s further support for the position other than what’s just in the OP since if I recall correctly, the right arm of the soul king could not be seen by Yhwach’s almighty.

The right arm being the thing that represents ‘stagnation’ while the left arm represents ‘evolution.’ Now if I’m remembering my CFYOW lore correctly, those concepts didn’t come about until the soul king himself as the originator of them. Being the originator of the universe and bringer of many of the other concepts as well such as life and death.

 

[Worthless]

I think there’s further support for the position other than what’s just in the OP since if I recall correctly, the right arm of the soul king could not be seen by Yhwach’s almighty.

The right arm being the thing that represents ‘stagnation’ while the left arm represents ‘evolution.’ Now if I’m remembering my CFYOW lore correctly, those concepts didn’t come about until the soul king himself as the originator of them. Being the originator of the universe and bringer of many of the other concepts as well such as life and death.

Which can also be interpreted as resistance. It would be cool if you could drop the link tho. Further more, it seems to confirm my thought about the feat shown in the OP being akin to the idea of "I'm a GOD, a powerful being, so human-level power wouldn't affect me." Because why would the OP assume transcending everything in the context means surpassing even fate and causality, when it could simply imply being a very powerful being who could split the universe?

I could probably give a lot of examples, but it's been a while since the last time I read any novels. I've seen many novels in which a GOD is said to transcend everything, and thus, even powers like time manipulation wouldn't work on them. However, not once have I seen other fans claim it means he transcends time itself.

 

[Maitreya12]

Here’s the scan in question:

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

this makes sense to me

 

[Worthless]

Here’s the scan in question:

I see now, and was he always resistant to future-seeing, or is this just one instance? I still haven't changed my opinion though and not only because the evidence for such an argument is almost little to nothing but also because it's quite common for Gods in fiction to be described as transcendental beings unaffected by human powers, being one of the example among many is the Gods in "Clearing an Isekai," where they treat the lower world as entertainment. Powers like time and causality manipulation don't work on them, and their existence is said to be on a completely different level than the human world, just looking at them is enough to overload your brain, and yet they don't have Acausality type 4 despite of all that.

 

[Worthless]

And the OP basically just assumed that the causality back then was different, with no actual feats supporting such a claim.

 

[Hellscream]

What are you saying lol
the screenshot you posted is nowhere near comparable to what's being provided here "the realms of are so different that your brain explodes"
where are you seeing any reasoning for aca 4?
aca 4 requires you to be on a different system of causality, which is literally what's posted in the screenshot saying that

"in that age, in all of creation many things were ambiguous. There was no such thing as life or death, and without progress, there was no retreat.
While it swayed to and fro"

That's the definition of aca 4, combined with the fact that he's unaffected by causality manipulation, fate manipulation and precognition

 

[Hellscream]

There's also the fact that his left and right arms govern and literally are evolution / stagnation

 

[Bastolan27]

I Agree

 

[Arcker123]

There's also the fact that his left and right arms govern and literally are evolution / stagnation

Imma cast my agree fra for this as It’s the most compelling argument for the Aca 4.

It’s also important to note that Soul King and Ichibe operate on a different scale of evolution and stagnation, which combined with the context of their resistance to precognitive and causal powers could be enough to assert this applies to their causal system.

 

[Deceived3596]

I agree with this.

I can provide some further reasoning, evidence, and other arguments that support Type 4 later.

 

[Hellscream]

Fam, your arguments are based on a single sentence with 0 further proof to back it up, why are you even bringing it up in this thread?
It's commonly known that aca 4 isn't granted for just existing before time, you need statements, and further proof in order to back it up.
All which is provided.

Only thing im seeing is whataboutism about verses that have pretty much 0 proof to back up anything related to aca 4 outside of a statement that they existed before time.

 

[Deceived3596]

I've seen so many instances like this, yet I've never seen them acquire Acausality Type 4 through it. Lich from Adventure Time is among the primordial monsters that existed before time, and everything was created, yet you see no Acausality Type 4 in his profile.

Until you have proof that the causality was also different back then, this whole thing is just a baseless argument.

It was accepted that the Litch does have Acausality Type 4 via this exact reasoning by this thread. It just wasn't added to his profile for some reason.

 

[Bastolan27]

I've seen so many instances like this, yet I've never seen them acquire Acausality Type 4 through it. Lich from Adventure Time is among the primordial monsters that existed before time, and everything was created, yet you see no Acausality Type 4 in his profile.

Until you have proof that the causality was also different back then, this whole thing is just a baseless argument.

The the soul king has shown resistance to

Type 4: Irregular Causality: Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This grants them resistance to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others.

While the lich has not

nevermind

It was accepted that the Litch does have Acausality Type 4 via this exact reasoning by this thread. It just wasn't added to his profile for some reason.

 

[Arcker123]

I've seen so many instances like this, yet I've never seen them acquire Acausality Type 4 through it. Lich from Adventure Time is among the primordial monsters that existed before time, and everything was created, yet you see no Acausality Type 4 in his profile.

Until you have proof that the causality was also different back then, this whole thing is just a baseless argument

Appealing to other verses isn’t a convincing argument for obvious reasons.

We do have an argument for it relating to causality, that being that brings from the primordial world are stated to operate on a different system of evolution and stagnation (scan in the OP), and we have supporting evidence beyond that showing how this relates to causal based powers. You didn’t address that

 

[Worthless]

Fam, your arguments are based on a single sentence with 0 further proof to back it up, why are you even bringing it up in this thread?
It's commonly known that aca 4 isn't granted for just existing before time, you need statements, and further proof in order to back it up.
All which is provided.

Only thing im seeing is whataboutism about verses that have pretty much 0 proof to back up anything related to aca 4 outside of a statement that they existed before time.

Forgot the lich they got Acausality due to it

But it's true that existing before time doesn't mean Acausality type 4 or you can resist time manipulation

 

[Worthless]

Appealing to other verses isn’t a convincing argument for obvious reasons.

We do have an argument for it relating to causality, that being that brings from the primordial world are stated to operate on a different system of evolution and stagnation (scan in the OP), and we have supporting evidence beyond that showing how this relates to causal based powers. You didn’t address that

All I see in the OP is that he existed prior to the universe, in which everything was different. However, this doesn't prove at all that the causality then and now is different. Showing that he is unaffected by future seeing and causality, which can be easily interpreted as resistance or due to being God of the verse rather than acausality, doesn't prove the OP point either. Proof or this is just a baseless argument.

 

[Arcker123]

All I see in the OP is that he existed prior to the universe, in which everything was different.

Including a different understanding of the relationship between progression and stagnation which is just cause and effect. You’re not actually addressing that argument.

Showing that he is unaffected by future seeing and causality, which can be easily interpreted as resistance

Because of the evidence, acausality is a stronger interpretation than resistance because it is backed up by more evidence and is easier to explain.

Proof or this is just a baseless argument.

You were given proof, you just never responded to it.

 

[Bastolan27]

This argument can be made for Anni Aizen when BBS is approved, right?

 

[Worthless]

Including a different understanding of the relationship between progression and stagnation which is just cause and effect. You’re not actually addressing that argument.

And your proof it means cause and effect?

Because of the evidence, acausality is a stronger interpretation than resistance because it is backed up by more evidence and is easier to explain.

Via baseless evidence? Sure

 

[Arcker123]

And your proof it means cause and effect?

What do you think Causation is other than just the progression of events?

We also have the supporting evidence of Soul King being resistant to causal based powers.

 

[Hellscream]

Don't really see the point of arguing with someone that's not even providing any valuable arguments to the thread]

3/4th was just trying to gloss over it with whataboutism

 

[KingNanaya]

3/4th was just trying to gloss over it with whataboutism

and being wrong about it

 

[Worthless]

What do you think Causation is other than just the progression of events?

We also have the supporting evidence of Soul King being resistant to causal based powers.

Offer evidence supporting this assertion, or this is just a baseless argument. I can provide additional examples, but the most recent I can remember the most is Clearing Isekai where Gods are depicted as transcendental beings existing on a higher plane than humans. Powers like time and causality do not affect them, which through your logic they should be Acausality type 4. Additionally, one could argue that, in that series, these Gods existed prior to the universe.

Don't really see the point of arguing with someone that's not even providing any valuable arguments to the thread]

3/4th was just trying to gloss over it with whataboutism

I don't see point either on responding to a guy who genuinely believes they are 5D

 

[Hellscream]

Your name is an accurate depiction of your arguments

 

[Worthless]

I don't expect someone like you, who can't even see the flaw in a 5D argument, to recognize the flaw in this one. I've encountered many similar scenarios in novels, and not once have I seen other readers claim those characters to be Acausality type 4.

 

[Deceived3596]

Offer evidence supporting this assertion, or this is just a baseless argument. I can provide additional examples, but the most recent I can remember the most is Clearing Isekai where Gods are depicted as transcendental beings existing on a higher plane than humans. Powers like time and causality do not affect them, which through your logic they should be Acausality type 4. Additionally, one could argue that, in that series, these Gods existed prior to the universe.

Firstly, all of this is just a massive whataboutism. Appealing to other verses isn't evidence against out claims, not only doesn't it address the arguments made, we can just as easily appeal to other verses that have had this accepted via the same logic used here.

Secondly, evidence will be provided later when I make my post. If you aren't convinced by the arguments used now, then wait until I drop my post before debating against others. As it'll just extend the length of this thread for no practical reason.

 

[KingNanaya]

I don't expect someone like you, who can't even see the flaw in a 5D argument, to recognize the flaw in this one. I've encountered many similar scenarios in novels, and not once have I seen other readers claim those characters to be Acausality type 4.

bro, who tf brought up 5D????? who are you arguing with??????

 

[Worthless]

Firstly, all of this is just a massive whataboutism. Appealing to other verses isn't evidence against out claims, not only doesn't it address the arguments made, we can just as easily appeal to other verses that have had this accepted via the same logic used here.

I've already pointed out the issue in the OP, the comparison is just an additional argument.

Secondly, evidence will be provided later when I make my post. If you aren't convinced about the arguments used now, then wait until I drop my post before debating against others. As it'll just extend the length of this thread for no practical reason.

Cool. I'll wait because the feats the OP presented cannot even be called an argument, as the reasoning behind them is just an assumption while half of the reasoning can be easily interpreted as due to being God of the verse. It's pretty common for Gods to be depicted as transcendental, and any power humans throw at them wouldn't work.

 

[Arcker123]

Offer evidence supporting this assertion, or this is just a baseless argument.

Evidence was brought to you multiple times. You just keep repeating the assertion that it’s baseless for no reason.

I can provide additional examples, but the most recent I can remember the most is Clearing Isekai where Gods are depicted as transcendental beings existing on a higher plane than humans. Powers like time and causality do not affect them, which through your logic they should be Acausality type 4. Additionally, one could argue that, in that series, these Gods existed prior to the universe.

Whataboutist argument that isn’t even 1 to 1 here. This is why whataboutism is a shitty argument.

 

[Worthless]

Evidence was brought to you multiple times. You just keep repeating the assertion that it’s baseless for no reason.

Because it is. You assume the causality back then was different based on a baseless argument, then bring up resistance to causality, which can be easily explained by being a God tier.

Whataboutist argument that isn’t even 1 to 1 here. This is why whataboutism is a shitty argument.

Your dislike stems from the contradiction to your argument. Nonetheless, I'll wait for that person to explain.

 

[KingNanaya]

which can be easily explained by being a God tier.

no. no it cannot.

 

[Worthless]

no. no it cannot.

You're saying that to someone who has seen many instances like this, lol. Also, I'm more convinced of my argument after seeing a scan in which future seeing works on Ichibei and yet not on Reio, despite both supposedly existing prior to the universe, according to that Acker person.