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Bleach high godly and concept hax

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Malekith said:
The fact that several characters use reish as a source of collection about Something/Someone/Skills even implicitly demonstrates that Reish does contain some kind of information, even if there is no such blatant statement, you see, I'm not making a mental game to get to this conclusion, would be the most straightforward logic possible that one would think of. Anyway, I believe it's better to wait for the Deceived to recover, instead of filling the topic with countless pages with each side going in circles.
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In my opinion, the OP is not only seeking explicit statements but also the most reasonable implications. However, the argument posits that asserting the significance of factual information as a fundamental aspect of existence is an extraordinary claim that demands exceptional evidence.
 
ImmortalDread said:
In my opinion, the OP is not only seeking explicit statements but also the most reasonable implications. However, the argument posits that asserting the significance of factual information as a fundamental aspect of existence is an extraordinary claim that demands exceptional evidence.
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Well, that's what I said, Deceived should argue more elaborately on this matter, anyway what we have to do is wait. Anyway, if the explanation is satisfactory and makes sense, I don't see the reason not to continue with HGR even without explicit declarations. (I don't know if HGR requires explicit declarations by the forum rules).
 
Until now, all the implications put forth have either been based on personal interpretation or lack proof. This is why the OP is seeking statements that have a logical implication. Just because the term “information” is mentioned in a scan doesn't necessarily imply fundamental information.

Merely providing an explanation that fits one's own interpretation of the scans, as with arguing for Bleach's tier 1 status, does not guarantee acceptance or logical consistency.

In HGR, feats are generally more significant than statements, particularly given the requirement to regenerate from total destruction. Reishi, unlike the mind, soul, and body, is not a fundamental aspect, meaning that survival with only reishi after destruction of the former three is not possible. This is the primary point of contention in this discussion.
 
@Malekith for something like high-godly regeneration you need something more blatant. We don't go off of assumptions for something as high godly regen flat out.

@KazuiK having information on what matter is doesn't mean type 2 information on the wiki standards. Everything being made of reishi doesn't mean high-godly, by that logic anyone that can regenerate from atomic destruction is high-godly because atoms are the fundamental building blocks of the universe.

Either way Deceived said he should be available in a few days so we should wait.
 
Regardless of what's being argued now, aren't both sides forgetting something crucial?
Even if Information is inside reishi, we won't assume destroying reishi= destroying information and regenerating from reishi still won't= regenerating information
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Hellscream reading souls doesn’t mean it’s information, nor does it being space or laws remotely prove its information. Give evidence that they’re literally made of information because your Yhwach scan doesn’t say shit.

@KazuiK Which none of the scans really imply, especially Yhwach cause all it says is he gives them a stronger soul through the schrifts. For there to be a counter point to my argument you need to give me an actual statement where they literally said reishi is made of literal information.
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Confirms that knowledge they gain and everything is ingrained in pieces of the soul.
 
KingogKings777 said:
Confirms that knowledge they gain and everything is ingrained in pieces of the soul.
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Why would that make the information a fundamental aspect of their existence? It sounds like the information is being put into the pieces of soul, not that the pieces of soul are already made of information.
 
I think this is becoming a big topic, I think it's better to apply what was accepted, the arguments are getting circular and it's been 48 hours.
 
Damage3245 said:
Why would that make the information a fundamental aspect of their existence?
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Dumb this down for me. I aint that bright. Cause type 2 says fundamental building block of reality which reishi is.
Damage3245 said:
It sounds like the information is being put into the pieces of soul, not that the pieces of soul are already made of information.
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What's the difference between the 2? Cause info manip type 2 doesn't differentiate if something gained it or was already with it.
 
If i see or hear the words "fundamental" or "information" one more ******* time i'm going to lose my shit.

@Deceived3596 The difference between illusion and reality doesn’t really explain how that involves literal information that is the fundamental block of reality. That part sounds like massive headcanon unless you can prove it involves actually controlling information itself.
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It explains how when you understand the definitions of what’s considered to be “fundamental” in relation with what’s considered to be “reality”.
  • “Fundamental” within this context would explain the bare, necessary components which define one’s ontological existence.
  • “Reality” within this context would explain the totality of one’s existence, including their fundamental components.
The narrator explains Shaz to be a “imaginary product” of Gremmy’s imagination, this nature of existence is heavily implied to be a different “reality” from those who are constructed of Reishi, it’s very important to examine the “reality” portion of the statement and not hand-wave it away since it does imply a level of fundamental difference between the two existences. “Reality” as a word describes fundamental differences, with “reality” explaining the actuality of something, which is in direct opposition with ideality, or the imaginary. It explains to us that Shaz’s previous imaginary existence wasn’t an actuality, it didn’t “exist” in that sense of the word, it was more of a notion of existence, an idea, an imagination some would say.

I’d support that level of interpretation by the fact that after Shaz gains a body of Reishi it’s stated he’s gaining a “physical” body in the process, his previous imaginary body was also “physical” in the sense it can be interacted with through touch and has general physicality, as in he can physically touch the ground, interact with constructs of matter physically etc etc. So it objectively couldn’t be referencing “physical” in that sense, the next logical deduction would be it’s referencing “physical” in the sense of an ontological difference, comparing the “actuality/realness” of Reishi to the “ideality/imagination” of Shaz’s previous body.

So with everything laid out above, it’s logically supported that the differences are fundamental in nature, and regenerating from that fundamental level would be High-Godly. It isn’t head-canon, I'm not making massive leaps in logic to assume such, in actuality I'm just making logical inferences implied by the text.

You can believe the text is not necessarily concrete in intent and such disagree with a full rating, but entirely disagreeing with a “possibly” or “likely” rating seems foolhardy with everything said above.

First main point is just physics manipulation, nothing about this remotely proves that information itself is comprised of the fundamental blocks of reality, just that everything in bleach has a soul, which kind of shoots high godly in the foot here. As for the response to Planck I don’t really see how this proves information itself being created from the ground up, or how reishi is composed of literal info. You just prove that Fullbringers can manipulate anything into a soul and they control physics.
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Specifically with the Fullbringer point, it would because these are fundamental laws of the world, they do define, and are a part of the fundamental building blocks of reality. If Reishi can exist on that level, then it supports the notion that Reishi can contain fundamental information within it, similar to how it contains the fundamental information of the laws of physics.

Everything containing a soul within Bleach doesn’t disprove anything when Reishi can contain/exist on a fundamental level, just because it’s spiritual matter doesn’t mean it can’t contain anything fundamental/conceptual within it, that doesn’t innately follow.

It proves Reishi can, and does exist on a fundamental level, with it constituting fundamental laws of reality like the laws of physics, which supports the notion of Shaz regenerating himself on that exact fundamental level.

The yukio scan doesn’t really help here given it’s a specific thing he does and nothing about it mentions reishi is composed of data/info.
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It does when examined in context, Yukio’s a fullbringer who’s entirely ability set is contingent on his ability to manipulate Reishi, if he’s capable of rewriting the information of a spiritual being who’s entirely constructed of Reishi through that ability to manipulate Reishi, it’s reasonable to be assume that Reishi would contain the information of that spiritual entity, because by the inherent mechanics of his ability set, he couldn’t manipulate one’s information if nothing in his capacity of manipulation contained information.

Do you now understand why I believe Reishi would contain one’s information within it through this feat?

Not sure how the Soul King being separated into separate beings help here when pernida and the rest aren’t stated to be made of literal information.
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Because it shows that Soul King’s Reishi does contain information within it, with it even including entirely different states of existence, which is important to one’s fundamental information since the state of one’s existence is a fundamental aspect about your nature of being.

This just sounds like power absorption, nothing about this proves literal information that’s the fundamental part of one’s existence is a part of Reishi.
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Sure it doesn’t prove anything fundamental, I agree with you on that, but it definitely does prove Reishi can contain information within it, which while less important, is still important to my argument.

Yeah carving your memories isn’t the same as literal type 2 information.
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Agree.

Space and Laws mean nothing here, especially when the argument is talking about literal information that’s the building block of existence.
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It absolutely does mean something here, what are you talking about?, Space by definition is a fundamental construct which defines reality, a simple google search of what Metaphysics is (which is the branch of philosophy we ascribe our definitions to in regards to concepts like “fundamental” or “ontological”) would show you that Space is absolutely a fundamental nature of reality. If Reishi constructs this fundamental nature of reality, then it proves my original claim that Reishi can exist on a fundamental level.

The being consuming items just sounds like information analysis, this doesn’t really prove reishi is composed of information.
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It proves Reishi contains information since she couldn’t analyze those reishi-constructed attacks if nothing about them contain inherent information which can be instinctively learnt.

The pernida stuff is the only one I see that has some form of mention on information, but again this doesn’t remotely prove that reishi itself is composed of literal information, just that it can absorb info to grow stronger.
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Basically everything I’ve already said, it proves Reishi does contain a level of information within it since if it didn’t Pernida couldn’t absorb information from it, simple logical deduction.


Hopefully I provided valid counters to the arguments proposed by @Theglassman12, that it sways the opinions of the staff examining this thread and the normal members who disagree with the rating.
 
Deceived3596 said:
If i see or hear the words "fundamental" or "information" one more ******* time i'm going to lose my shit.



It explains how when you understand the definitions of what’s considered to be “fundamental” in relation with what’s considered to be “reality”.
  • “Fundamental” within this context would explain the bare, necessary components which define one’s ontological existence.
  • “Reality” within this context would explain the totality of one’s existence, including their fundamental components.
The narrator explains Shaz to be a “imaginary product” of Gremmy’s imagination, this nature of existence is heavily implied to be a different “reality” from those who are constructed of Reishi, it’s very important to examine the “reality” portion of the statement and not hand-wave it away since it does imply a level of fundamental difference between the two existences. “Reality” as a word describes fundamental differences, with “reality” explaining the actuality of something, which is in direct opposition with ideality, or the imaginary. It explains to us that Shaz’s previous imaginary existence wasn’t an actuality, it didn’t “exist” in that sense of the word, it was more of a notion of existence, an idea, an imagination some would say.

I’d support that level of interpretation by the fact that after Shaz gains a body of Reishi it’s stated he’s gaining a “physical” body in the process, his previous imaginary body was also “physical” in the sense it can be interacted with through touch and has general physicality, as in he can physically touch the ground, interact with constructs of matter physically etc etc. So it objectively couldn’t be referencing “physical” in that sense, the next logical deduction would be it’s referencing “physical” in the sense of an ontological difference, comparing the “actuality/realness” of Reishi to the “ideality/imagination” of Shaz’s previous body.

So with everything laid out above, it’s logically supported that the differences are fundamental in nature, and regenerating from that fundamental level would be High-Godly. It isn’t head-canon, I'm not making massive leaps in logic to assume such, in actuality I'm just making logical inferences implied by the text.

You can believe the text is not necessarily concrete in intent and such disagree with a full rating, but entirely disagreeing with a “possibly” or “likely” rating seems foolhardy with everything said above.



Specifically with the Fullbringer point, it would because these are fundamental laws of the world, they do define, and are a part of the fundamental building blocks of reality. If Reishi can exist on that level, then it supports the notion that Reishi can contain fundamental information within it, similar to how it contains the fundamental information of the laws of physics.

Everything containing a soul within Bleach doesn’t disprove anything when Reishi can contain/exist on a fundamental level, just because it’s spiritual matter doesn’t mean it can’t contain anything fundamental/conceptual within it, that doesn’t innately follow.

It proves Reishi can, and does exist on a fundamental level, with it constituting fundamental laws of reality like the laws of physics, which supports the notion of Shaz regenerating himself on that exact fundamental level.



It does when examined in context, Yukio’s a fullbringer who’s entirely ability set is contingent on his ability to manipulate Reishi, if he’s capable of rewriting the information of a spiritual being who’s entirely constructed of Reishi through that ability to manipulate Reishi, it’s reasonable to be assume that Reishi would contain the information of that spiritual entity, because by the inherent mechanics of his ability set, he couldn’t manipulate one’s information if nothing in his capacity of manipulation contained information.

Do you now understand why I believe Reishi would contain one’s information within it through this feat?



Because it shows that Soul King’s Reishi does contain information within it, with it even including entirely different states of existence, which is important to one’s fundamental information since the state of one’s existence is a fundamental aspect about your nature of being.



Sure it doesn’t prove anything fundamental, I agree with you on that, but it definitely does prove Reishi can contain information within it, which while less important, is still important to my argument.



Agree.



It absolutely does mean something here, what are you talking about?, Space by definition is a fundamental construct which defines reality, a simple google search of what Metaphysics is (which is the branch of philosophy we ascribe our definitions to in regards to concepts like “fundamental” or “ontological”) would show you that Space is absolutely a fundamental nature of reality. If Reishi constructs this fundamental nature of reality, then it proves my original claim that Reishi can exist on a fundamental level.



It proves Reishi contains information since she couldn’t analyze those reishi-constructed attacks if nothing about them contain inherent information which can be instinctively learnt.



Basically everything I’ve already said, it proves Reishi does contain a level of information within it since if it didn’t Pernida couldn’t absorb information from it, simple logical deduction.


Hopefully I provided valid counters to the arguments proposed by @Theglassman12, that it sways the opinions of the staff examining this thread and the normal members who disagree with the rating.
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Deceived coming back from being sick with the novel ready.
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Deceived3596 said:
If i see or hear the words "fundamental" or "information" one more ******* time i'm going to lose my shit.



It explains how when you understand the definitions of what’s considered to be “fundamental” in relation with what’s considered to be “reality”.
  • “Fundamental” within this context would explain the bare, necessary components which define one’s ontological existence.
  • “Reality” within this context would explain the totality of one’s existence, including their fundamental components.
The narrator explains Shaz to be a “imaginary product” of Gremmy’s imagination, this nature of existence is heavily implied to be a different “reality” from those who are constructed of Reishi, it’s very important to examine the “reality” portion of the statement and not hand-wave it away since it does imply a level of fundamental difference between the two existences. “Reality” as a word describes fundamental differences, with “reality” explaining the actuality of something, which is in direct opposition with ideality, or the imaginary. It explains to us that Shaz’s previous imaginary existence wasn’t an actuality, it didn’t “exist” in that sense of the word, it was more of a notion of existence, an idea, an imagination some would say.

I’d support that level of interpretation by the fact that after Shaz gains a body of Reishi it’s stated he’s gaining a “physical” body in the process, his previous imaginary body was also “physical” in the sense it can be interacted with through touch and has general physicality, as in he can physically touch the ground, interact with constructs of matter physically etc etc. So it objectively couldn’t be referencing “physical” in that sense, the next logical deduction would be it’s referencing “physical” in the sense of an ontological difference, comparing the “actuality/realness” of Reishi to the “ideality/imagination” of Shaz’s previous body.

So with everything laid out above, it’s logically supported that the differences are fundamental in nature, and regenerating from that fundamental level would be High-Godly. It isn’t head-canon, I'm not making massive leaps in logic to assume such, in actuality I'm just making logical inferences implied by the text.

You can believe the text is not necessarily concrete in intent and such disagree with a full rating, but entirely disagreeing with a “possibly” or “likely” rating seems foolhardy with everything said above.
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To respond to all of this in full, the bigger issue with using Shaz making himself into a Reishi being as a case of regeneration is that Shaz becoming a real person and the strength of his regeneration are two separate things. Him making himself into a real person isn't a showing of regeneration, because he didn't start out as a real person to begin with and was made imaginary, he did the opposite. He changed what he was fundamentally, and that's not regeneration. He did the change through regeneration, but even still, that wouldn't determine the level of his regeneration. We note on the regeneration page itself (not these exact words but essentially them at the end of the summary section) that in order to qualify for a certain level of regeneration the character must expereince the complete destruction and reforming of both the physical and non-physical aspects of their body to qualify for the higher levels of regen. Shaz does have the statements of being able to regenerate from the destruction of his body as his profile demonstrates, however, he would only qualify for Mid-Godly because he does not demonstrate being able to regenerate from a destruction of all the Reishi that composes him.

I agree with the notion of reishi having information type 2 in bleach, the big issue here with Shaz is just that he lacks the proper feats or statements that demonstrates him being able to regenerate on a level where the spiritual matter that composes him is destroyed. Cause, his body can be destroyed without the destruction of the Reishi that makes him up.
 
@Deceived3596 There's a massive problem with your argument here, reality and imagination doesn't mean the fundamental nature of one's existence that we have on the wiki, we literally have the examples listed, like information, history, narrative and concept. None of those are remotely mentioned in this argument here so making an assumption here doesn't work.

Fundamental laws of the world literally has nothing to do with regeneration. Nothing about the regeneration page mentions law regeneration whatsoever as a qualification for high godly.

Can you provide any evidence that literally says reishi is made of information? Because you need something like this.

Not really when at no point in the scans is that mentioned.

Again, go through the regeneration page on the wiki and give me a quote where it says that regenerating from space and laws is a qualification for regeneration, especially on a high-godly level. If it's not listed there then it's not a feat for regeneration. Simple as that.

That doesn't mean everything is made of information. By that logic is everything in the world made of data because we collect data from experiments from certain events? That's not how information works.

Again, that's not how we do things here, you need reishi to have a blatant statement of it being made of information for this to qualify as high godly, this entire argument relies heavily on assumptions and pretending space and laws somehow factor into regen when that's not the case.
 
To respond to all of this in full, the bigger issue with using Shaz making himself into a Reishi being as a case of regeneration is that Shaz becoming a real person and the strength of his regeneration are two separate things. Him making himself into a real person isn't a showing of regeneration, because he didn't start out as a real person to begin with and was made imaginary, he did the opposite. He changed what he was fundamentally, and that's not regeneration. He did the change through regeneration, but even still, that wouldn't determine the level of his regeneration. We note on the regeneration page itself (not these exact words but essentially them at the end of the summary section) that in order to qualify for a certain level of regeneration the character must expereince the complete destruction and reforming of both the physical and non-physical aspects of their body to qualify for the higher levels of regen. Shaz does have the statements of being able to regenerate from the destruction of his body as his profile demonstrates, however, he would only qualify for Mid-Godly because he does not demonstrate being able to regenerate from a destruction of all the Reishi that composes him.
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These objectively aren’t entirely separate, changing your fundamental information through regeneration proves your regeneration works on a fundamental level, and that you can regenerate from that level of damage since your regeneration works on that level, which is necessary for High-Godly, acting like these aren’t inherently connected to each other is just wrong.

Nothing about the regeneration page implies you necessarily need to experience that level of destruction to qualify for that level of regeneration, if you’re stated capable of regenerating from that level of damage, either explicitly or implicitly, you would have that level of regeneration, full stop. Acting like you need direct feats to have that level of regeneration is just wrong, we accept logical deduction as valid evidence on this Wiki, if you can’t actually argue against the deductions themselves, but instead appeal to rules which don’t even exist, it just proves how weak the arguments against the deductions truly are.

I agree with the notion of reishi having information type 2 in bleach, the big issue here with Shaz is just that he lacks the proper feats or statements that demonstrates him being able to regenerate on a level where the spiritual matter that composes him is destroyed. Cause, his body can be destroyed without the destruction of the Reishi that makes him up.
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I don’t agree, he does have “proper” feats and statements (idk how you would actually quantify “proper” in this instance, it would be up to personal opinions i guess) in my honest opinion, which i explained in extreme depth in my previous post.

@Deceived3596 There's a massive problem with your argument here, reality and imagination doesn't mean the fundamental nature of one's existence that we have on the wiki, we literally have the examples listed, like information, history, narrative and concept. None of those are remotely mentioned in this argument here so making an assumption here doesn't work.
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Glassman… it’s like you’re actively trying to misunderstand what i’m arguing, i’m not saying that “reality” and “imagination” by themselves, without further context, are fundamental to one’s nature, i’m very clear on that in my post. What i’m arguing, and i’ll be as clear as i possibly can, is that the differences between “reality” and “imagination” in this instance is a fundamental one, and that the differences are in reference to Shaz’s personal existence being changed, which would be his fundamental information.

If Shaz can change his fundamental existence from “imaginary” to “real” after acquiring Reishi constitution, it blatantly shows The Viability working on a fundamental level, and since he’s capable of regenerating from the destruction of his mind, body and soul, alongside his fundamental information, he would have High-Godly.

Simple as.


I’m not going to address everything else said since it doesn’t matter to my argument currently, Reishi in general could or couldn’t contain fundamental information, it wouldn’t matter in Shaz’s case since the evidence already provided on his profile is more than enough to show Shaz’s Reishi does contain his fundamental information within it, which is what matters for his High-Godly.
 
No it doesn't, changing from imaginary to real doesn't equate to high godly. For the nth time can give me a quote from the regeneration page that gives any form of idea that going from imaginary to real is a high godly regeneration feat? If you can give me the exact text that says this on the page then sure, high godly is a thing, but if it isn't you're relying too much on assumptions when for stuff like high godly we need more evidence than just "Its technically fundamental so it should be high godly". When we literally list off the types of fundamental existences that counts.
 
Theglassman12 said:
No it doesn't, changing from imaginary to real doesn't equate to high godly. For the nth time can give me a quote from the regeneration page that gives any form of idea that going from imaginary to real is a high godly regeneration feat? If you can give me the exact text that says this on the page then sure, high godly is a thing, but if it isn't you're relying too much on assumptions when for stuff like high godly we need more evidence than just "Its technically fundamental so it should be high godly". When we literally list off the types of fundamental existences that counts.
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I think your definitely being overly anal here whenever the whole argument regarding Shaz is that he's currently accepted as having his body being based on Type 2 Information.




High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, and soul, along with at least one even more fundamental aspect of a character's existence, such as their place in the narrative, their entire history, or the underlying information (Type 2) or concept(s) (Type 1 or 2, but only very rarely 3, if there is strong evidence of being similar to the former types in terms of how hard it is to regenerate from them) needed for them
 
No it doesn't, changing from imaginary to real doesn't equate to high godly. For the nth time can give me a quote from the regeneration page that gives any form of idea that going from imaginary to real is a high godly regeneration feat? If you can give me the exact text that says this on the page then sure, high godly is a thing, but if it isn't you're relying too much on assumptions when for stuff like high godly we need more evidence than just "Its technically fundamental so it should be high godly". When we literally list off the types of fundamental existences that counts.
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It does, if your regeneration works on a fundamental level, specifically affecting your fundamental existence which defines your ontological being, by definition your personal fundamental information, then that would directly equate towards High-Godly.

Sure.

High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, and soul, along with at least one even more fundamental aspect of a character's existence, such as their place in the narrative, their entire history, or the underlying information (Type 2) or concept(s) (Type 1 or 2, but only very rarely 3, if there is strong evidence of being similar to the former types in terms of how hard it is to regenerate from them) needed for them to exist.
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Shaz’s fundamental existence would be his fundamental information, just because the text itself doesn’t directly state fundamental information doesn’t mean it isn’t referencing his fundamental information, implications are a thing y'know.

I’m not relying on too many assumptions, I'm relying on implications which are consistent with the text itself, trying to disregard my argument like that is just plain disrespectful.

Glass…. Homie i literally explain the exact type of fundamental existence Shaz would fall under in both of my posts, it would be his fundamental, ontological existence, the fundamental information which defines his reality. That's an accepted type of fundamental aspect which grants High-Godly on this wiki.
 
Deceived3596 said:
These objectively aren’t entirely separate, changing your fundamental information through regeneration proves your regeneration works on a fundamental level, and that you can regenerate from that level of damage since your regeneration works on that level, which is necessary for High-Godly, acting like these aren’t inherently connected to each other is just wrong.

Nothing about the regeneration page implies you necessarily need to experience that level of destruction to qualify for that level of regeneration, if you’re stated capable of regenerating from that level of damage, either explicitly or implicitly, you would have that level of regeneration, full stop. Acting like you need direct feats to have that level of regeneration is just wrong, we accept logical deduction as valid evidence on this Wiki, if you can’t actually argue against the deductions themselves, but instead appeal to rules which don’t even exist, it just proves how weak the arguments against the deductions truly are.
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The issue is is that Shaz didn't regenerate this information, he got it from taking Reishi from the surrounding environment. He changed what he was made of through transforming something already present. That isn't regeneration, because Shaz isn't restoring himself, he's transforming himself.

And while logical deduction is acceptable for what we put on profiles, it should only be accepted when the evidence for the deduction is substantial and clear. The deduction here lacks the substantial evidence to stand without issue on the profile. Cause with the current evidence, a more valid assumption is that Shaz has Mid-Godly regen and through his regeneration he got rid of his Non-existent Physiology. It's not about appealing to rules that don't exist, but being conservative with outy conclusions when lacking clear statements or feats. The evidence that has been provided for Shaz having high-godly regen largely only works if we dig deeper and make logcial leaps where they don't need to be made.

Tldr. The evidence for High-Godly is currently weak, your argument for high-godly while extensive ultimately is a weak one.
 
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@LordGinSama no I'm just asking for blatant evidence that Shaz has high godly regen in the first place. If you're going to argue someone can regenerate from their information being destroyed I expect to see some evidence that it's the case.

@Deceived3596 you're not giving me anything about Shaz regenerating from information. You can keep saying fundamental existence as much as you want, if it does not remotely mention the 4 different forms of high godly regeneration levels then we don't count it as high godly. Again by this logic regenerating from your atoms being destroyed is high godly because atoms are the fundamental building blocks of the universe.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@LordGinSama no I'm just asking for blatant evidence that Shaz has high godly regen in the first place. If you're going to argue someone can regenerate from their information being destroyed I expect to see some evidence that it's the case.

@Deceived3596 you're not giving me anything about Shaz regenerating from information. You can keep saying fundamental existence as much as you want, if it does not remotely mention the 4 different forms of high godly regeneration levels then we don't count it as high godly. Again by this logic regenerating from your atoms being destroyed is high godly because atoms are the fundamental building blocks of the universe.
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Broski you the one who started this who fundamental stuff and it obviously falls under type 2 info manip from the scans provided by Deceived3596.
0VOumOC.png

If you don't like the fact that this falls under high godly go create a crt for high godly to be changed.
p6Amq4x.png

It seems to me the issue is more with High-Godly then with Shaz.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Deceived3596 you're not giving me anything about Shaz regenerating from information. You can keep saying fundamental existence as much as you want, if it does not remotely mention the 4 different forms of high godly regeneration levels then we don't count it as high godly. Again by this logic regenerating from your atoms being destroyed is high godly because atoms are the fundamental building blocks of the universe.
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Change the regen standards then, because we define high godly as coming back from mind+body+soul+another more fundamental aspect of their existence erasure if someone regens from having their ontology erased, and ontology encompasses mind, body, and soul, regenerating from that EE is High Godly, objectively
 
TBH I have to agree, High-Godly isn't limited to only the stuff mentioned, note the "such as" before mentioning them basically just labeling them as examples on what qualifies over being exhaustive and covering all criteria that'd fit.

If anything High-Godly itself could use a CRT.
 
@KingogKings777 Quote the text that says information that's the fundamental part of one's existence. If you can give me the text right now I'd really appreciate it. You keep saying it falls under High-Godly but you haven't given me any evidence that this qualifies for high godly, especially information levels since none of the text mentions information being what reishi is made up of.

@Arkenis Atoms literally make up all matter in the universe. Anything lower than that wouldn't really be considered matter. Point is claiming that fundamentals gets regened just because of spirit matter doesn't mean high godly, at best that's mid godly.

@deonment Ok, so give me some examples of characters having high godly regen that do not remotely fall under any of the 4 types of high godly regen that we have. Because I don't recall seeing any characters who have high godly with none of the 4 requirements.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@deonment Ok, so give me some examples of characters having high godly regen that do not remotely fall under any of the 4 types of high godly regen that we have. Because I don't recall seeing any characters who have high godly with none of the 4 requirements.
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Ji Ning as one, can recover from the erasure of his entire being including his true soul which is a more fundamental essence than the mind/body/soul trinity and can remain unaffected by their destruction and can
Though it is not easy to find more examples since most folk usually only think of plot, information, concept, and history when trying to give a character high godly
But even despite this, if a character can regenerate from mind, body, and soul and something more fundamental than that, then they should get high godly, as stated by the page itself
The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, and soul, along with at least one even more fundamental aspect of a character's existence, such as their place in the narrative, their entire history, or the underlying information (Type 2) or concept(s) (Type 1 or 2, but only very rarely 3, if there is strong evidence of being similar to the former types in terms of how hard it is to regenerate from them) needed for them to exist.
Click to expand...
It just notes those four as examples of something fundamental enough to the character that regenerating from their erasure along with mind, body, and soul would get you high godly
 
Theglassman12 said:
@deonment Yeah I just asked a knowledgeable member on Ji Ning and he even said that's classified as conceptual regeneration. Not some other fundamental regen that's not listed, so this example doesn't really help your case.
Click to expand...
True Souls
being a concept
Click to expand...
bruh I've straight-up read Desolate Era to completion, the true soul is not a concept, it can be likened to one kinda, but it just straight-up isn't, plank wtf. The thing you could try and say it is their fate, but it joining with the prime essences shouldn't be used for it being conceptual, that's just, bruh
 
deonment said:
bruh I've straight-up read Desolate Era to completion, the true soul is not a concept, it can be likened to one kinda, but it just straight-up isn't, plank wtf. The thing you could try and say it is their fate, but it joining with the prime essences shouldn't be used for it being conceptual, that's just, bruh
Click to expand...
Like I said, doesn't translate that well to the wiki. It being their fate is eeeeeh.

Also, I wasn't saying it joining with the Prime Essences makes it conceptual. I was just clarifying its nature.
 
Planck69 said:
Like I said, doesn't translate that well to the wiki. It being their fate is eeeeeh.

Also, I wasn't saying it joining with the Prime Essences makes it conceptual. I was just clarifying its nature.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I can agree that it doesn't translate well. It being their fate is kinda supported but yeah it isn't really the best way to describe it. I was just using it as an example of something more fundamental than Mind/Body/Soul to a character that regenning from the erasure of it + Mind/Body/Soul would give high godly.

Aight
also when is wang lin update
 
Shaz's nature would be exactly similar to Ji Ning's, but instead of it being conceptual, it would be fundamental information, both are acceptable forms of fundamental aspects which grant High-Godly.

Ji Ning's regeneration seemingly doesn't state anything conceptual directly, but has multiple implications which would make it fall under our requirements for conceptual regeneration, with that being accepted, but when Shaz has those same implications, just for fundamental information, now we need exact, direct statements which explicitly state information.

It just smells of bias tbh.

I'll address Glassman's and Duedate's arguments shortly, just got done doing my boxing training.
 
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