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Bleach high godly and concept hax

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CodeCCLL said:
There isn't enough proof this.
Some Bleach supporters greatly mislead people who don't enough know about Bleach.
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Hence I am literally asking for evidence, they all come and insult me for not knowing Bleach but no one bother to give evidence for the fundamental aspect
 
No, you're right it just contains fundamental information such as their existence, memories, knowledge, abilities of ones being.
It just makes up matter, space, the laws and everything else but it's not a fundamental aspect of their existence for sure.
 
No we are arguing about whether High Godly regeneration is legitimate or not. Information type 2 manipulation has no relevance here.
 
The OP's thread is about two things, high Godly and CM type 2. Unless you are asking me what is information type 2 itself, then sure it's stated in the page. But no one is arguing for information type 2 manipulation currently.

However, if there is no evidence for high-Godly regeneration, then the information type 2 information will also be removed.
 
ImmortalDread said:
The OP's thread is about two things, high Godly and CM type 2. Unless you are asking me what is information type 2 itself, then sure it's stated in the page. But no one is arguing for information type 2 manipulation currently.

However, if there is no evidence for high-Godly regeneration, then the information type 2 information will also be removed.
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Deceived3596 said:
Another update on my sickness, i got a covid test yesterday and it came back positive, which probably means i'm going to be out for a longer time than i initially thought, which sucks but it is what it is.

Hopefully it clears up sooner rather than later.
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Get well soon ❤️✌️
 
Hellscream said:
Yeah no, it shouldn't get changed at all and i already gave plenty of proof and examples literally by using the CM explanation page itself.
It's CM2, even if you don't consider the fact that he controls the concept black by itself, all the other things he created are CM2 by itself.

3. Lesser Fundamental Concepts: Concepts that don't meet the same standards as Type 1 or Type 2, such as personal concepts that continue to govern the object in question, merely on a more specific scale, or concepts whose nature is not elaborated upon. Case-by-case specifications and explanations are necessary for such concepts and examples, and they are likely not going to meet the same standards for abilities such as High-Godly regeneration that other concepts may. Conceptual manipulation of this type can be resisted by those who resist sufficiently similar abilities, even if the exact mechanics may differ.

Like i said 10 times before

such as personal concepts that continue to govern the object in question, merely on a more specific scale

govern the object in question, merely on a specific scale this means that by changing the concept of that object, the concept itself remains unchanged.
This would be the same as changing the concept of a single soul, which is CM3, and altering all souls which is CM2.
Or in this case, altering the concept of a singular zanpakuto (which is CM3) and altering all of them is CM2.
Ichibei does the later and created the very concept of zanpakuto themselves.

2. Dependent Concepts: Such concepts are abstract and govern all reality within their area of influence. These concepts shape everything, and changing them would either require the alteration of every object of the concept or, if manipulated directly, change all objects of the concept alongside the concept itself. These concepts, however, exist simultaneously with and are bound by the object of the concept. In this way, an abstract dependent concept can be destroyed by destroying all objects of the concept, restored by re-making an object of a previously existent concept, or changed by changing all objects of the concept across reality. This, however, does not qualify for this form of conceptual manipulation, and is rather treated as a by-product of another action akin to a "domino effect". This type of conceptual manipulation can only be obtained if the abstract concept itself is changed directly, and not by indirect methods. For example, destroying humanity and thus "ending the concept of humanity" would not qualify, while directly "ending the concept of humanity" and thus destroying humanity would qualify.

Such concepts are abstract and govern all reality within their area of influence

These concepts shape everything, and changing them would either require the alteration of every object of the concept or, if manipulated directly, change all objects of the concept alongside the concept itself. These concepts, however, exist simultaneously with and are bound by the object of the concept

Ichibei created the very concept of zanpakuto itself. he didn't give individual names or only affects a single zanpakuto like what people are proposing / saying whatever. This has already been repeated 20 times given examples of the CM page itself.
Ichibei creating/ naming an individual zanpakuto would count as CM3, where as creating the very concept of zanpakuto themselves is CM2.
These CONCEPTS GOVERN ALL REALITY WITHIN THEIR AREA OF INFLUENCE
Literally read the CM page, they even give examples of what qualifies and what doesn't..

It's black on white CM2, nothing is getting changed about it.
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Reio35 said:
Icbibei named everything in soul society.

名呼和尚」の異名を持つ禿頭の客番隊リーダー

真の名を呼ぶことができるため、霊王から真名呼和尚の名を貰う。尸魂界 (ソウル・ソサエティ)のあらゆる事象に最初に名前をつけた。

護廷十三隊での履歴

護廷十三隊に属していたかは不明だが、尸魂界 (ソウル・ソサエティ)のあらゆる事象に最初に名前をつけたのだとすれば、護廷十三隊という名前そのものを付けた可能性の方が高い。京楽やマユリなど、入隊から長い者は面盛がある様子。

真の名を呼ぶ能力を発揮して、敵の名前を削ぎ、奪い、さらに新たな名前を刻むことで力を奪う。創造できる者だけが可能な戦い方だ。

斬魄刀「一文字」で黒く塗り潰されたものは、名を失う。剣の名も自身の名も消え去り、名もなき物だけが残る。

不転太殺陵

和尚が支配する「黒」。百年後の尸魂界 (ソウル・ソサエティ)から百夜奪い、転生できない真黒な地球へ誘う。

The bald-headed leader of Squad Zero, also known as the "Monk Who Calls Out the Real Name/Manako Oshō".

Due to being able to call out real names, the Soul King granted him the name "Monk Who Calls Out the Real Name". He was the first to name every phenomenon in Soul Society.

History of Gotei 13

It is unknown if he was a member of the Gotei 13, but if he was the one to name every phenomenon in Soul Society, it is most likely he who gave the Gotei 13 its name. Kyouraku, Mayuri, and others enlisted have been acquaintances for a long time (?).

He demonstrates his ability to call out true names by shaving off his enemy's name, stealing them, and then takes away their power by giving them a new name. This way of fighting is only possible for those who can create.

Those who have been painted in black by his Zanpakutō "Ichimonji" lose their names. The names of their blade and their own vanish, leaving only behind a nameless thing.

Futen Taisatsuryō

The "Black" is ruled by Oshō. By robbing a hundred nights off of Soul Society from a hundred years in the future, he takes others to a pitch-black earth where they are unable to reincarnate.
Click to expand...
So, here's the thing: Ichibei names the phenomena, but does not originally create them from the way this is written. I.e. apparently they already existed before he came up with the name?
That means either something doesn't require a name to exist or, as one could also ouderstand from him being the one with the ability to "call out the real name", they had names and it's just that nobody besides Ichibe knew what those were.

Do we have a statement or something where him naming Zanpakuto "Zanpakuto" or something change its nature at a wide scale?
 
DontTalkDT said:
So, here's the thing: Ichibei names the phenomena, but does not originally create them from the way this is written. I.e. apparently they already existed before he came up with the name?
Click to expand...
Only when he calls out the name the power of those things will be displayed for example take Renji Zanpackto. It was not displaying the real power until true name was revealed
DontTalkDT said:
That means either something doesn't require a name to exist or, as one could also understand from him being the one with the ability to "call out the real name", they had names and it's just that nobody besides Ichibe knew what those were.
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Without name things can exists but it's more like empty husk may be.
It works on Complete reality.
Those who have been painted in black by his Zanpakutō "Ichimonji" lose their names. The names of their blade and their own vanish, leaving only behind a nameless thing.
Click to expand...
He has feat for affecting Yhwach name throughout the timeline.
 
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DontTalkDT said:
So, here's the thing: Ichibei names the phenomena, but does not originally create them from the way this is written. I.e. apparently they already existed before he came up with the name?
That means either something doesn't require a name to exist or, as one could also ouderstand from him being the one with the ability to "call out the real name", they had names and it's just that nobody besides Ichibe knew what those were.

Do we have a statement or something where him naming Zanpakuto "Zanpakuto" or something change its nature at a wide scale?
Click to expand...
Ichibei's ability to name things defines what they are, and gives them their meaning, so him naming zanpakuto is what gave them their meaning, zanpakuto meaning soul cutting sword which is exactly what they do and are.
Even if you say something already has a form to it before ichibei changed it's concept, the names he gives out would change them to whatever he named it.

Him naming the said phenomena would define their concept, and meaning due to how his power works
And squad zero existed before soul society itself, which means that he did give everything it's name / concept

Names in bleach have power to them.

There's also the fact that after creating the concept of zanpakuto, any zanpakuto that gets forged, ichibei automatically knows which shows that he has control over the very concept of zanpakuto as he's the one who created it and knows all of them.
 
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Not much is known about the finer details involving certain things creation.

Zanpakuto for example hasn’t been expanded on much besides at some point Oetsu made all the modern Zanpakuto. We don’t know even know his age.

Although personally I don’t think it really matters since name manipulation is another application of Ichibei’s main power which is the concept of Black. He says so himself his power is Black. Which is accepted as type 2. This should extend to all applications of Black should it not?
 
Hellscream said:
No, you're right it just contains fundamental information such as their existence, memories, knowledge, abilities of ones being.
It just makes up matter, space, the laws and everything else but it's not a fundamental aspect of their existence for sure.
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The problem here is two-fold: The simpler one is that Shaz has no statements or showings of him regenerating from having reishi destroyed. And since Reishi is just spiritual matter, and for the most part, does act like matter just in a spirit location, we have no reason to assume that it ignores one of the fundamental laws of matter and that is: it can neither be created nor destroyed. We only assume Reishi gets destroyed in the case that Existence erasure is involved and nothing surrounding Shaz ever had regenerating from existence erasure.

The second issue is that reishi itself, is only a building block not something wholly separate from the soul and mind within Bleach. It's like atoms, it composes those things. And we do not treat atoms nor the proto-atoms or any of the other small stuff that makes up matter as type 2 information. They fall strictly under the matter category. This then goes into another thing which should be brought up and responded to from Decieved original's post and its how he presents Fullbrings. He says "Fullbringers whose abilities are entirely dependent on their ability to manipulate Reishi can interact with and manipulate fundamental laws in the verse, such as the laws of physics." This isn't incorrect in any format, but it does conflate two things together which should be. The statement about messing with laws of physics does differentiate the laws of physics from Reishi (it straight up says control the reishi that dwells within a material or sometimes the laws of physics). Reishi isn't stated to compose the laws of physics in that statement. Same for the scan that he uses to say Reishi composes space, that doesn't liken Reishi to space just says that the reishi in the area is bending. And since we know characters in bleach have to breathe air even as souls, the air is most likely filled with reishi in form of oxygen in this fight. I know it comes from Kenpachi's fight with Cien which gave him Space-Time manipulation, but space and time are used separately from Reishi in those instances so they shouldn't be conflated with each other. Even more past that, while Reishi does have fundamental information inside of it, nothing ever treats Reishi itself as this fundamental information.

Then looking at Yukio, while he can mess with the information of others, nothing states that he does so through manipulating just their reishi. He has to use his fullbring power for this, which we know is fueled by reiryoku and is a phenomenon, which is not what Reishi is or composes as far as the setting ever states.

Everything else in that big post of his doesn't really matter much, because the counter ends up being that while these things can be put into Reishi, they are not what Reishi is itself.

Tldr. Shaz has nos statements or feats that have him regenerating from complete destruction of his Reishi, and Reishi as spiritual matter is mostly like physical matter. While fundamental information exist in both, neither would be treated as fundamental information themselves nor would the destruction of these things automatically entail the destruction of the fundamental information.
 
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Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye said:
Not much is known about the finer details involving certain things creation.

Zanpakuto for example hasn’t been expanded on much besides at some point Oetsu made all the modern Zanpakuto. We don’t know even know his age.

Although personally I don’t think it really matters since name manipulation is another application of Ichibei’s main power which is the concept of Black. He says so himself his power is Black. Which is accepted as type 2. This should extend to all applications of Black should it not?
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I think potency is being conflated with type, so its best to say it like Ichibe is able to manipulate two types of concepts. Type 2 and Type 3 concepts. His manipulation of the names of people, are type 3 manipulations. His manipulation of black is type 2 manipulation. While they're born from the same ability, they are not the same application of this ability
 
Duedate8898 said:
I think potency is being conflated with type, so its best to say it like Ichibe is able to manipulate two types of concepts. Type 2 and Type 3 concepts. His manipulation of the names of people, are type 3 manipulations. His manipulation of black is type 2 manipulation. While they're born from the same ability, they are not the same application of this ability
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Well the application of black removes the name from the world / reality itself. Both are not different.
 
ImmortalDread said:
You just said everything is made up reishi, so I am asking you where is evidence of it.
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main-qimg-6bdea1a2d21f9afc2e76b06c6aca18cb
eo037euly5i91.jpg
 
Also, I don't understand why there is a discussion about reishi being ınformation type 2, a another thread needs to be created for this.
 
Tatsumi504 said:
Bruh moment.
Information on something's existence is type 1. If reality is affected by changing that information then it's type 2
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Bruh moment
Reishi is what makes up their existence, and is what contains the fundamental information of their existence
In what world is that type 1?

  1. Knowledge: These characters can manipulate information as the medium of knowledge as opposed to just manipulating what a specific person knows, which would be considered Mind Manipulation. Characters with this ability can, for example, destroy information on a subject and by that make it inherently unknowable. Other examples of uses would be to prevent information from leaving an area, making it so that those outside can't gain knowledge of what is happening inside, or altering information to change what people know about the subject into something else.
  2. Fundamental: These characters can manipulate information, which serves as fundamental building block of reality. This can allow characters to rewrite the world to their whims, often by programming it much like they would a virtual reality. These manipulation can come on many levels. For some it might just be the mechanism behind mundane magical abilities, while others can rewrite information to change reality, causality or the laws of nature.
 
Tatsumi504 said:
Bruh moment.
Information on something's existence is type 1. If reality is affected by changing that information then it's type 2
Click to expand...
Word of advice. Don't act smug as if you know the definition of Type 2 Information Manipulation here. Because effecting Reality isn't a requirement.




Fundamental: These characters can manipulate information, which serves as fundamental building block of reality. This can allow characters to rewrite the world to their whims, often by programming it much like they would a virtual reality. These manipulation can come on many levels. For some it might just be the mechanism behind mundane magical abilities, while others can rewrite information to change reality, causality or the laws of nature.





Remember kids, read before you write.
 
Theglassman12 said:
All of you stop derailing the thread, if you don’t have anything to offer beyond throwing random remarks at someone in deleting your posts.

@Deceived3596 get well soon
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With all this derailment wouldn't it be better to close the thread while Deceived doesn't improve? and when he improves someone reopens the thread.
 
LordGinSama said:
Word of advice. Don't act smug as if you know the definition of Type 2 Information Manipulation here. Because effecting Reality isn't a requirement
Click to expand...
Why the hell do i need to act smugly? By reality i meant anything. Changing the information behind anything and affecting what that thing is would be info type 2 manipulation.

Try to understand what someone is saying before getting cocky
 
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