Bleach high godly and concept hax

[KingogKings777]

From his Schrift, the Viability (renamed by Yhwach to be Sigma).

Where is the viability from?

If it was from being an abstraction, then Guaneal Lee would have the same ability, but he doesn't.

Are you saying the Guaneal Lee should have the Viability?

 

[Theglassman12]

@KingogKings777 that is not scans, all you did was just say “it qualifies” and you screenshotted the page without providing evidence that reishi is comprised of type 2 information.

 

[Damage3245]

Where is the viability from?

Are you saying the Guaneal Lee should have the Viability?

What part of my post makes you think I am saying that?

From the scan viability is innate ability of Shaz not a schrift but yhwach changed it into schrift. So your argument is wrong

How does that make me wrong? It's an ability. Schrift or otherwise, it's not a result of him being imagined.

 

[KingogKings777]

What part of my post makes you think I am saying that?

This?

How does that make me wrong? It's an ability. Schrift or otherwise, it's not a result of him being imagined.

It is though.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

How does that make me wrong? It's an ability. Schrift or otherwise, it's not a result of him being imagined.

It's like saying a character has HGR as an ability so he doesn't have HGR.

I am too tired because of other threads i am logging off for today

 

[Damage3245]

It is though.

Prove that it is from him being an abstraction.

This?

And yet, Lee doesn't have the ability. Just like I said.

 

[KingogKings777]

Prove that it is from him being an abstraction.

So Shaz power came from Yhwach?

And yet, Lee doesn't have the ability. Just like I said.

So you are claiming since Lee doesn't have the same ability as Shaz he not a abstraction? I'm trying to understand this part more.

 

[Damage3245]

So Shaz power came from Yhwach?

Shaz' regeneration comes from the Viability. It does not come from his nature of being made out of "imagination". Also because if that was the case then he would have lose the ability when he replaced his body with Reishi, but he didn't.

So you are claiming since Lee doesn't have the same ability as Shaz he not a abstraction? I'm trying to understand this part more.

I'm saying that being imagined by another person isn't enough.

 

[KingogKings777]

Shaz' regeneration comes from the Viability. It does not come from his nature of being made out of "imagination". Also because if that was the case then he would have lose the ability when he replaced his body with Reishi, but he didn't.

I'm asking where did he get the Viability from?

I'm saying that being imagined by another person isn't enough.

But what did you mean by this?

You made this claim, and I'm trying to understand by what you meant by having the same ability. Are you talking about the Viability?

 

[Damage3245]

I'm asking where did he get the Viability from?

Where do you think he got it from?

You made this claim, and I'm trying to understand by what you meant by having the same ability. Are you talking about the Viability?

Yes, that's what I'm talking about.

 

[KingogKings777]

Where do you think he got it from?

Yhwach, since there was like a 5 chapter long thing about him granting them their powers etc. Where did you think he got it from?

Yes, that's what I'm talking about.

Ah okay, thnaks.

 

[Deceived3596]

Sure, so again, where is the statement that he regenerated his information? Where is the statement that he has fundamental information as an imaginary person? Cause that would easily debunk my entire argument if you provided it right now. How would he even have this information, if he's just a product of Gremmy's imagination? Cause the main scan you've been using throughout all of this, does draw a distinction between what Shaz is made of and Reishi which is all we know to hold information in bleach. The assertion could be made that since Reishi is just spiritual matter that Kishi also holds information, but that assumption doesn't really work surrounding Shaz. In fact, he's directly called an imaginary product, and if something is imganiary it doesn't exist.

I’ve provided the scan and explanation countless amount of times, if your only counter towards it is a whataboutism in “where’s the statement he regenerated his information” than i’m not going to engage with your arguments anymore, since you’re clearly not engaging with mine, actually counter the claims i’m making rather than skipping passed it by asking for scans which aren't necessary in finding conclusion in this debate.

I’ve explained countless times in great detail why he intrinsically has fundamental information through the action of his regeneration. I'm not obligated to give you direct statements when I’ve provided valid premises implicitly supported by the text itself, actually engage with those premises themselves or stop arguing all together, because it’s getting to the point you’re stonewalling this conversation by requesting information which isn’t necessary for this debate.

He would have fundamental information inherently since he’s still an entity which exists within reality, fundamental information just describes necessary factual components of one’s existence, the fact you’re able to describe his existence as imaginary to begin with proves he has fundamental information since that’s a fundamental fact about his existence, that’s exactly what ontology is, the branch of metaphysics which describes the nature of one’s fundamental being.

Imagination does exist, it just doesn’t exist on a materialized level, such as those created of matter, it exists on a more fundamental, idealized level, such as thoughts, ideas or conceptions.

Please find the quote of me arguing that his transformation was completely independent from his regeneration. Cause not a single one of my response post to you here has me saying that ever or even implying it. All I've said is that he never regenerated information cause

He changed what he was made of through transforming something already present. That isn't regeneration, because Shaz isn't restoring himself, he's transforming himself.

You can seemingly pivot all you want, but this statement heavily implies you believe that Shaz isn’t regenerating his fundamental existence, he’s rather changing it through an ability separate from his regeneration.

So, somehow someone being a non-existent entity or as the series labels him "an imaginary product" doesn't equate to having non-existent physiology? Instead being non-existent means a character who clearly has a physical form and is not stated to embody an abstraction has abstract existence? How do you not see the huge flaw? How do you read "transform himself into reality" and take that as to meaning he somehow was embodying an abstraction beforehand?

Yes, he doesn’t have Nonexistence Physiology, he doesn’t objectively lack necessarily natures or aspects about himself, he at best has a level of abstract existence since he’s embodying an abstraction such as thoughts or ideas.

I’m taking it to mean he’s embodying/existing as an abstraction before hand rather than being a nonexistent entity because the explanation provided implies a level of existence, just fundamentally different from Reishi, it doesn’t imply Shaz lacks physical, spiritual, mental or informational existence by any means, you’re misunderstanding what “imagination” even describes, imagination just describes something non-physical, such as thoughts and ideas, things without material constitution, not something nonexistent, null or without reality.

No, no no. That's not how that works at all. You can't just assert because he made himself into a real person through absorbing real things, that means he regenerated something he never had.

Shaz was not a real person. He got hurt. He healed himself using real material. After enough healing, he became a real person. In none of that, does Shaz ever regenerate or regain what he once was, which is an imaginary person. Not to mention, his power itself only absorbs Reishi, not information. Sure Reishi has information inside of it, but going by your logic, every character with like water manipulation or earth manipulation would also get matter manipulation cause atoms compose these things. It's missing the point entirely on the mechanics of the ability itself. Your argument is contigent on Shaz regenerating information yes, but you keep failing to acknowledge that there is no way for him to either possess this information cause the only things we know to possess this fundamental information is again Reishi and because he's never said to regain information because his regeneration is only concerned with his body.

The onus is on you to prove that Shaz doesn’t have fundamental information when he’s implicitly described having fundamental information.

Yeah, of course he doesn’t become an imaginary existence again, because it was fundamentally changed by the Reishi he absorbed, that’s my entire claim. That doesn’t address literally anything, it’s an actual non-statement.

If I'm arguing that he’s changing his fundamental existence through his absorption of Reishi then he’s also absorbing the fundamental information from that Reishi as well, you’re making another non-statement.

They wouldn’t unless they have evidence of manipulating the atoms which constitute those elements, which I'm arguing Shaz does have, within this analogy, Shaz would have evidence which implies he’s manipulating the atoms which construct those elements to manipulate them. You’re just misunderstanding my argument.

Reishi isn’t the only thing within Bleach which contains information within it, Shaz’s imaginary existence innately contains information within it as explained in this message.

If you can post your multiple pieces of evidence which demonstrates Shaz both having information type 2 as an Imaginary product and him regenerating this information, I'd be happy to see it. Cause everything else you posted so far either isn't clear proof of these assertions.

Being composed of imagination isn't embodying an abstraction, cause it's not representative of any specific idea. He's not embodying imagination or the idea of imagination, he was never stated to in any capacity. Also, have you not checked the Abstract Existence page? There are only two types of Abstract Existences: Type 1 which is when someone lacks a true physical form and is the abstraction itself which means they can only be interacted with through messing the idea that they embody or Type 2 when a character embodies an abstraction which is nowhere close to being an imaginary product. There is no "thought" type of abstract existence.

The main reason I'm still focusing on this aspect is because the type of existence that Shaz possess is important for this argument

So, how else in bleach does someone have spiritual, mental, or information existence without Reishi? There are no other sources of these things within Bleach, unless you're exerting that Gremmy manipulates information with The Visionary which would also requirement statements or feats in order for that to be accepted.

It’s actively existing on an abstract level, he’s embodying the idea of Gremmy’s imaginations which are entirely constructed of thoughts, innately so, that’s a direct form of Abstract Existence, just because he doesn’t exist as the abstraction of ideas or thoughts themselves isn’t evidence against him existing on an abstract level.

Shaz has spiritual, mental and information existence without having Reishi constitution, Lee has the exact same thing, The Cleaner has information existence without being constructed of Reishi, the list goes on and on. You have specific levels of existence without being constructed of Reishi.

Gremmy does manipulate information to a certain level since he’s able to construct entities which have fundamental existences different from Reishi.

@Deceived3596 Your in depth explanations are literally based on assumptions, especially on it being informational regeneration since at no point in your arguments did you remotely provide evidence that reishi is comprised of information, especially information that's the building block of existence. Regenerating from fundamental existence can mean literally anything, why the hell does this somehow mean that it's information based regen when we even have Ginjo mention that everything is made up of souls in the world? You can say your logic remains true as much as you want, if it gets rejected in the end it means jack shit.

Your arguments against my arguments are just whataboutism without literally zero argumentative substance, constructed entirely off of logical fallacious, don’t dare minimize my arguments when you’ve provided nothing of substance yet.

I’ve proven within this instance that Shaz is regenerating his fundamental existence through Reishi, I don't need to provide evidence that Reishi, in its entirety, exists on a fundamental level or contains fundamental information, just need to prove within this instance it does, and I’ve proved such true multiple times. You haven’t actually contended with those premises in a logical manner yet.

I’ve provided multiple explanations which describe why it’s talking specifically about his ontological existence, which is one’s fundamental information. If you aren't understanding that part of my argument then just disengage from the conversation, because seemingly you aren’t going to understand anytime soon.

Ginjo's statement doesn’t disprove anything, it literally doesn’t pertain to anything in contention right now, if i’m arguing that within this specific instance, Reishi does contain fundamental information within it, then Ginjo saying everything contains Reish doesn’t disprove that. Stop trying to obfuscate the conversation through bringing up unneeded points.

It being rejected doesn’t disprove the logic behind it, i don’t ******* care about what’s accepted or not, that has nothing to do with what’s logically true or false. Just because staff members who seemingly can’t, in good faith, actually engage with my arguments or who don’t understand basic metaphysical concepts, disagree with my arguments, it doesn’t disprove their legitimacy. I care about the truth, not what gets accepted at the end of the day.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Deceived3596 That’s not what whataboutism remotely means. The entire argument that I’ve made is literally explaining why this isn’t enough for high-godly. The only whataboutism I’ve remotely mentioned in this thread is atoms because they still make up the fundamental aspect of the universe, yet regenerating from atomic destruction only gives high regen at best, not High godly.

All you’ve shown is that Reishi comprises of space and laws, which again isn’t something we label on the wiki as high godly regeneration. Telling me I haven’t debunked them in a logical manner isn’t really something I’d be throwing around when I’m already outnumbering you with agreements.

No I do understand your argument, I simply disagree with it because there’s nothing to prove it’s on this level of regeneration when none of the regens we have listed deviates from these 4 without some form of evidence.

Ginjo saying everything is made of souls, something we already have listed on this website that regenerating from everything destroyed including your soul as mid-godly regeneration, does disprove the fact that they’re made of literal information. That’s the crux of your argument in regards to reishi when Ginjo says otherwise. Unless you can provide the evidence that souls are comprised of literal information, I don’t really see why this should be high-godly levels of regen.

Ok? You care about the truth, that doesn’t really help your argument if the truth has insufficient evidence for the high godly regen to occur. For extraordinary abilities like these you need extraordinary evidence, not assumptions that it’s literal information type 2.

 

[Hellscream]

Crazy argument ngl

Dude hasn't debunked / addressed anything > acts like he has, and shrugs of all arguments that were made

Your agreements in itself were all made before any arguments were made for HGR, don't forget that as well

 

[KingogKings777]

@KingogKings777 that is not scans, all you did was just say “it qualifies” and you screenshotted the page without providing evidence that reishi is comprised of type 2 information.

You said quote the text that says information thats the fundamental part of ones existence which I did. It seemed to me you didn't know what high godly regen is.

 

[KingogKings777]

Where do you think he got it from?


Yes, that's what I'm talking about.

Yeah answered this, I still want to know where you think he got it from though.

 

[KingogKings777]

@Deceived3596 That’s not what whataboutism remotely means. The entire argument that I’ve made is literally explaining why this isn’t enough for high-godly. The only whataboutism I’ve remotely mentioned in this thread is atoms because they still make up the fundamental aspect of the universe, yet regenerating from atomic destruction only gives high regen at best, not High godly.

All you’ve shown is that Reishi comprises of space and laws, which again isn’t something we label on the wiki as high godly regeneration. Telling me I haven’t debunked them in a logical manner isn’t really something I’d be throwing around when I’m already outnumbering you with agreements.

No I do understand your argument, I simply disagree with it because there’s nothing to prove it’s on this level of regeneration when none of the regens we have listed deviates from these 4 without some form of evidence.

Ginjo saying everything is made of souls, something we already have listed on this website that regenerating from everything destroyed including your soul as mid-godly regeneration, does disprove the fact that they’re made of literal information. That’s the crux of your argument in regards to reishi when Ginjo says otherwise. Unless you can provide the evidence that souls are comprised of literal information, I don’t really see why this should be high-godly levels of regen.

Ok? You care about the truth, that doesn’t really help your argument if the truth has insufficient evidence for the high godly regen to occur. For extraordinary abilities like these you need extraordinary evidence, not assumptions that it’s literal information type 2.

What is your argument anyway? Cause you making a thread of both high godly and concept hax made this a mess imo for the first couple of pages.

 

[Deceived3596]

@Deceived3596 That’s not what whataboutism remotely means. The entire argument that I’ve made is literally explaining why this isn’t enough for high-godly. The only whataboutism I’ve remotely mentioned in this thread is atoms because they still make up the fundamental aspect of the universe, yet regenerating from atomic destruction only gives high regen at best, not High godly.

That’s exactly what whataboutism means, whataboutism is the logical fallacy of responding to one’s argument with questions, you aren’t actually answering what’s being asked of you, you’re just skirting around it through asking another question.

All you’ve shown is that Reishi comprises of space and laws, which again isn’t something we label on the wiki as high godly regeneration. Telling me I haven’t debunked them in a logical manner isn’t really something I’d be throwing around when I’m already outnumbering you with agreements.

I’ve shown that it also comprises Shaz’s ontological existence, which you haven’t logically argued against yet, you’ve only asserted that since it doesn’t directly say information, it doesn’t pertain to his information, which isn’t a logical argument against the assertion, you’re just providing another interpretation without explaining why it hold more truth value compared to mine.

Claims require evidence, you've failed to provide such with your interpretation.

Also the amount of mods who agree with your arguments doesn't matter to the logical consistency of them, I’ve been ratio’ing the living **** out of you and Duedate this entire debate, if you want to default to majority vote, i’m objectively winning/correct.

No I do understand your argument, I simply disagree with it because there’s nothing to prove it’s on this level of regeneration when none of the regens we have listed deviates from these 4 without some form of evidence.

I don’t agree with you that you understand my argument, this entire debate has shown otherwise in my view. Ontological Existence isn’t a deviation from fundamental information, it’s literally one’s fundamental information, acting like these are separate things is categorically wrong.

Ginjo saying everything is made of souls, something we already have listed on this website that regenerating from everything destroyed including your soul as mid-godly regeneration, does disprove the fact that they’re made of literal information. That’s the crux of your argument in regards to reishi when Ginjo says otherwise. Unless you can provide the evidence that souls are comprised of literal information, I don’t really see why this should be high-godly levels of regen.

I’m not making the claim he’s made entirely of literal information, i’m saying he’s regenerating his information after it was damaged through Reishi, you don’t have to be constructed of literal information to gain High-Godly, if you can regenerate from your fundamental information being destroyed, alongside your physical, spiritual and mental existences than you have High-Godly.

That isn’t the crux of my argument, you’re proving once again that you don’t understand what i’m arguing, Reishi doesn’t need to be comprised of literal information to contain fundamental information within it, Shaz doesn’t need to be comprised of literal information to prove he’s regenerating his fundamental existence after it’s damaged. These aren’t necessities.

Ok? You care about the truth, that doesn’t really help your argument if the truth has insufficient evidence for the high godly regen to occur. For extraordinary abilities like these you need extraordinary evidence, not assumptions that it’s literal information type 2.

I’ve provided enough premises and logical explanation to provide evidence for my claims, you’ve provided nothing but useless conjecture.

I’m not going to even address the ******* ECREE shit, literal bubber sticker type statement.

 

[Damage3245]

I’m not making the claim he’s made entirely of literal information, i’m saying he’s regenerating his information after it was damaged through Reishi, you don’t have to be constructed of literal information to gain High-Godly, if you can regenerate from your fundamental information being destroyed, alongside your physical, spiritual and mental existences than you have High-Godly.

Is there ever actually a time where Shaz' fundamental information was destroyed though?

The original scan makes no mention of that. Nor can I recall it ever being stated that he could come back from his mind, body and soul all being completely destroyed.

 

[KingogKings777]

I agree with the OP on both points.

Is that the only scan available for information level regeneration? Nothing else describing why the information of reality is being destroyed and replaced? If so then I guess I can agree with downgrading it to Mid-Godly Regeneration.
Agree with the second part. There should be evidence that these concepts govern all of reality for it to qualify.

What do you 2 think of the counter arguments since you two are the only other mods here other then damage, due, and the OP.

 

[KingogKings777]

The original scan makes no mention of that. Nor can I recall it ever being stated that he could come back from his mind, body and soul all being completely destroyed.

My dude did you not read the scans?

 

[Deceived3596]

Is there ever actually a time where Shaz' fundamental information was destroyed though?

The original scan makes no mention of that. Nor can I recall it ever being stated that he could come back from his mind, body and soul all being completely destroyed.

Yes, that's why i'm arguing he should have High-Godly.

The scan does have mention of that, it just isn't direct, rather it's heavily implied so, which I've explained in these two posts in great depth. And in regards to the mind, body and soul, check Shaz's profile, it's stated he's capable of regenerating his entire body, which comprises his physical, spiritual and mental selfs given how Souls in Bleach operate.

 

[Damage3245]

My dude did you not read the scans?

Thanks for supplying that.

That seems to be good enough for his body, mind and soul - though not his fundamental information.

 

[KingogKings777]

Thanks for supplying that.

That seems to be good enough for his body, mind and soul - though not his fundamental information.

*When he replies to this but doesn't answer your question.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Hellscream and yet 2 other staff members still disagree with the arguments for high-godly regeneration after the argument was made so your point is moot.

@Kingofwolves999 Had you payed attention to this thread you’d know what my argument is: the evidence for high-godly on a type 2 information isn’t enough, plus it’s not my fault you guys were arguing semantics about names in bleach for a page and a half.

@Deceived3596 What part of regenerating from something that’s the fundamental aspect of the world is remotely whataboutism? It’s literally in direct response to your argument that’s about just that.

Ok so you admit that it’s not related to his information that makes up existence, that just shoots your argument in the foot that this regen is high godly on type 2 informational level. This again is using assumptions instead of blatant statements. Yeah ratio’ing me with random folks and not getting full on agreements with staff members. Something you’d need for this to pass. You can get 50+ upvotes per comment but if the staff doesn’t accept the feats it’s rejected, simple as that. Upvotes mean Jack shit in a debate.

Yeah, in your view, not really an argument to make when I can easily invert that back on you by saying in my view you don’t understand the standards for high godly regen.

him being made of information wasn’t my exact point, my point is to prove that Reishi itself is made of information. The entire argument stems from reishi being what he regenerated from, but I’m asking for scans that reishi itself is made of info. If it’s comprised of type 2 information, AKA actual information that’s the building block of reality then it can qualify, but the scans do not remotely imply that for reishi.

Your argument literally has assumptions as the core argument for it being high-godly regen dude, if the argument for the regen is based on assumptions then how the **** are you arguing it’s legit high-godly and not a possibly high-godly? And even then information is a very specific thing in fiction.

 

[Theglassman12]

Posting memes isn’t helping your argument at all, and is derailing at best.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

@Kingofwolves999 Had you payed attention to this thread you’d know what my argument is: the evidence for high-godly on a type 2 information isn’t enough, plus it’s not my fault you guys were arguing semantics about names in bleach for a page and a half.

Wha-

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Bro leave me out of this, I don’t deal in Bleach madness

 

[Theglassman12]

Oh sorry, tagged the wrong person.

 

[KingogKings777]

Posting memes isn’t helping your argument at all, and is derailing at best.

Damn doesn't even realize what he did, hows that high horse of yours?

 

[Deceived3596]

@Deceived3596 What part of regenerating from something that’s the fundamental aspect of the world is remotely whataboutism? It’s literally in direct response to your argument that’s about just that.

The whataboutism part of the argument would be you asking for direct statements in response to me asking you to address my argument itself, that doesn’t address anything i’m asserting, you need to comment against the premises themselves, not provide counter questions. It’s as simple as that.

Ok so you admit that it’s not related to his information that makes up existence, that just shoots your argument in the foot that this regen is high godly on type 2 informational level. This again is using assumptions instead of blatant statements. Yeah ratio’ing me with random folks and not getting full on agreements with staff members. Something you’d need for this to pass. You can get 50+ upvotes per comment but if the staff doesn’t accept the feats it’s rejected, simple as that. Upvotes mean Jack shit in a debate.

I quite literally said that it does have to do with the information which defines his ontological existence, do you understand what ontology is? It isn’t this physical material object which defines physicality, it’s describing one’s fundamental information to one’s existence, it isn't physical, he doesn’t need to be constructed of literal information itself to prove he has fundamental information, keep up with the conversation bud and don’t twist my arguments like that.

I don’t need blatant statements when I can evidently provide interpretations which are implicitly supported by the text itself, that’s an acceptable form of logic Glass.

Yeah i am ratio’ing the **** out of you, keep saying it .

Yeah, in your view, not really an argument to make when I can easily invert that back on you by saying in my view you don’t understand the standards for high godly regen.

But I do understand the standards of High-Godly, you actively don’t since you believe one’s fundamental existence isn’t one’s fundamental information because it doesn’t say information.

him being made of information wasn’t my exact point, my point is to prove that Reishi itself is made of information. The entire argument stems from reishi being what he regenerated from, but I’m asking for scans that reishi itself is made of info. If it’s comprised of type 2 information, AKA actual information that’s the building block of reality then it can qualify, but the scans do not remotely imply that for reishi.

I’ve already provided the evidence in multiple previous posts. I'm not going to continue this same song and dance with you since it’s a waste of my time. You constantly keep stonewalling this conversation with unimportant topics which don’t actually address what I'm asserting.

Your argument literally has assumptions as the core argument for it being high-godly regen dude, if the argument for the regen is based on assumptions then how the **** are you arguing it’s legit high-godly and not a possibly high-godly? And even then information is a very specific thing in fiction.

I’m currently arguing a concrete rating because the counter arguments against it have been sub-par to say the least, but I’ve already said that i’m fine with it being downgraded to a possibly or likely rating since i can personally see why people might disagree with a concrete rating, y’all just haven’t made those arguments yet.

 

[KingogKings777]

Oh sorry, tagged the wrong person.

There he goes.

 

[LordGinSama]

happy Saint Patty's day ya bunch of animals.

 

[Theglassman12]

@KingogKings777 being condescending isn’t helping your end btw. Just saying.

@LordGinSama Happy Lucky Clover day to you to mate.

@Deceived3596 The argument is it's insufficient though, hence why I'm asking for proof that reishi is comprised of information.

For something like trying to argue solid high-godly regeneration though you need blatant statements for this to pass, otherwise it's at best "possibly" on that level, and even then I still don't see it being information based.

For something specific as information you'd need that to be stated yes.

We haven't made those arguments yet because we don't see enough information that can give the idea that reishi itself has type 2 information built into its essence.

Yeah i am ratio’ing the **** out of you, keep saying it .

Take me to dinner first before you try to act all kinky to me.

 

[KingogKings777]

@KingogKings777 being condescending isn’t helping your end btw. Just saying.

My bruda I return the same energy thats sent at me to the sender and that includes deleting the post that specifically shows where you messed up.

 

[KingogKings777]

For something like trying to argue solid high-godly regeneration though you need blatant statements for this to pass, otherwise it's at best "possibly" on that level, and even then I still don't see it being information based.

IIRC Gin made a post about a compromise awhile ago on that. Post 493 to be exact. Also wall posted this on some other mods and replied to the 2 unactive ones that where here earlier to get their opinion on it and the counters deceived put out.

Take me to dinner first before you try to act all kinky to me.

 

[LordGinSama]

I still think that comprise is still the best option, I can understand the arguments from both sides to a degree so it's not like either opinion is 100% factual, ergo a comprise of "At least Mid-Godly, possibly High-Godly." should work the best in this situation. I doubt anyone wants to sit here for 13+ pages regurgitating the same exact points.



The evidence for the argument regarding High-Godly shouldn't be automatically dismissed given the fact that most of the characters with high godly regeneration have theirs for similar reasons (I.E regeneration from the mind, body and soul, including some form of fundemental aspects regardless if informational or conceptual. First that come to mind are Demon's in DMC having High-Godly for similar reasons, Fate gods, Anos, etc.), and this isn't a "whataboutism." either since there's a wiki standard. One that I might not necessarily agree with but it is what it is.

 

[Deceived3596]

For something specific as information you'd need that to be stated yes.

There’s a problem with this line of reasoning, you’re asserting, as fact, that you need direct statements for specific abilities to be accepted, which just isn’t true, we give out concrete ratings for abilities which don’t necessarily have direct statements, but heavy implications which are supported both logically and contextually. Even disregarding these abilities having concrete ratings, they’re also commonly accepted under prefixes like “possibly” or “likely” since, while there’s inductive or deductive evidence which supports the possibility of the claim being true, it’s not certain enough to acquire a concrete rating.

I’m fine with with someone arguing that Shaz’s feat isn’t concrete enough to accept as a concrete rating, i’m perfectly fine with that interpretation, what i’m not fine with is disregarding the interpretation I’ve provided because “it isn’t concrete enough” or “doesn’t state information, therefore it doesn’t reference Shaz’s information”, neither of these claims address the core premise's of said conclusion.

That’s why I'm getting frustrated in this conversation.

We haven't made those arguments yet because we don't see enough information that can give the idea that reishi itself has type 2 information built into its essence.

Why do you constantly keep defaulting to what Reishi has in general and not to the specific case of Shaz?, that isn’t pertinent for this conversation, what’s pertinent is seeing if the Reshi which Shaz absorb does contain fundamental information or not, and i believe it does because he’s implied regenerating his fundamental existence after it’s damaged, you would need to address that specific feat to argue against this specific interpretation, not default to Reishi in its entirety having fundamental information or not.

Take me to dinner first before you try to act all kinky to me.

I'm making you bite the pillow after this thread concludes.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Deceived3596 that’s how we’ve always treated possibly ratings tho, both for stats and abilities as it being “possibly” means it lands in the realm of assumption. We don’t know if this is true or not so we’re going with the middle ground.

Because Shaz’s regeneration involves reishi being used to reform his entire body? Defaulting to what Reishi is comprised of isn’t an unreasonable point to make when it’s literally the crux of the argument. If it has evidence that it’s comprised of information then sure, high godly can stay, but if not I don’t really see it staying, or at the very least it being a solid rating.

I’m making you bite the pillow after this thread concludes.

 

[Reio35]

existence, you have to embody a concept and neither Shaz nor Lee embody any concepts or ideas. They are born from thought, but they are clearly not the thoughts themselves.

Where do you think he got it from?


Yes, that's what I'm talking about.

So we know shaz does embody the abstraction of gremmys imagination. He is technically immortal as long as gremmy keeps imagining.We also know gremmy can create the same person over and over like himself for example so it wouldn't be far fetched to say he wouldn't be able to make shaz over and over. So yea he would be abstract existence