Bleach high godly and concept hax

[Deceived3596]

Getting ready to throw hands.

 

[deonment]

When I stop feeling kinda off IRL and get into the mood again. Stopped at Ch.485.

Aight, I can help if needs be, have reached chap 1860 and am still reading

 

[Planck69]

Aight, I can help if needs be, have reached chap 1860 and am still reading

It's just one of those things where slugging through a meh arc solely for feats is just uuuuuuuuuuuugh.

 

[deonment]

It's just one of those things where slugging through a meh arc solely for feats is just uuuuuuuuuuuugh.

True

 

[Deceived3596]

Philosophical brain melt.

The issue is is that Shaz didn't regenerate this information, he got it from taking Reishi from the surrounding environment. He changed what he was made of through transforming something already present. That isn't regeneration, because Shaz isn't restoring himself, he's transforming himself.

He directly did regenerate his information, the “transformation” you’re referencing isn’t an independent action completely separate from Shaz’s regeneration, it’s a byproduct of his regeneration. He “transformed” his previous, ontological state of existence through regenerating his damaged existence with another fundamental source different from his imaginary existence, causing it to fundamentally change.

The fact you’re arguing Shaz’s The Vitability, who’s entirely shtick is absorbing Reishi around Shaz to repair his damaged body, has this innate transformation effect that’s completely independent from its regenerative capabilities, is more of an concrete interpretation compared to my argument, which is consistent with the stated effects of his ability, just blatantly proves the level of mental gymnastics one must go through to disagree with my assertions.

And while logical deduction is acceptable for what we put on profiles, it should only be accepted when the evidence for the deduction is substantial and clear. The deduction here lacks the substantial evidence to stand without issue on the profile. Cause with the current evidence, a more valid assumption is that Shaz has Mid-Godly regen and through his regeneration he got rid of his Non-existent Physiology. It's not about appealing to rules that don't exist, but being conservative with out conclusions when lacking clear statements or feats. The evidence that has been provided for Shaz having high-godly regen largely only works if we dig deeper and make logcial leaps where they don't need to be made.

The evidence provided is substantial, the arguments against that substantialness haven't been substantive, it’s basically been “since this doesn’t directly state information, it can’t be information”, which is just faulty logic.

That assumption requires you to believe that Shaz’s The Viability has a completely different effect from its regeneration that somehow allows Shaz to change his fundamental existence without having it be tied towards his regenerative capabilities, despite the blatant fact he changes his fundamental existence through his regeneration…..

Also just a small nitpick, being constructed of imagination in this instance wouldn’t grant Non-Existence Physiology since Shaz still exists on all levels of his aspects, he’s just a different, fundamental existence compared to those constructed of Reishi, it’s at best Abstract Existence.

Being “conservative” within that instance would require more “liberal” assumptions compared to my claims, if you really want to stake the position with the least amount of assumptions, my position would be mine.

I’m not making “logical leaps”, I'm not “jumping to conclusions”, I’ve succinctly explained my reasoning in great depth, I’ve provided multiple supporting premises which provides credence towards my interpretation. What you’re doing is making leaps in logic through assuming Shaz’s The Viability has abilities completely independent from its regenerative effects when that’s never stated nor implied, while my claims are completely congruent with the stated capabilities of his ability.

Tldr. The evidence for High-Godly is currently weak, your argument for high-godly while extensive ultimately is a weak one.

Your evidence against it is even weaker.

you're not giving me anything about Shaz regenerating from information. You can keep saying fundamental existence as much as you want, if it does not remotely mention the 4 different forms of high godly regeneration levels then we don't count it as high godly. Again by this logic regenerating from your atoms being destroyed is high godly because atoms are the fundamental building blocks of the universe.

I’ve given you multiple scans, and multiple in-depth explanations which proves that Shaz regenerated his fundamental information, the fact you’re this held up on the lack of direct statements saying “information”, despite the fact I’ve proven he’s most likely regenerating his fundamental existence, which would be his fundamental information innately, just shows you’re stonewalling this conversation.

It’s to the point that I feel obligated to break down and explain what these words mean, because it seems like there’s a level of misunderstanding going on about them.

• “Fundamental” just describes the core, necessary components of something, in a metaphysical context it would be to one’s existence.
• “Information” just describes the fact, or actuality of something, in a metaphysical context it would be the facts of one's existence.

“Fundamental Information” would then describe the core, necessary fundamental facts of one’s existence, be it of general scope. What ontology describes is the nature of one’s fundamental existence, it inherently contains one’s fundamental information since it’s describing the exact fundamental information which defines your being, if you’re regenerating your fundamental existence, then you’re regenerating your fundamental information.

It’s as “simple” as that.

If you disagree with me then you disagree with what Ontology describes, because my explanation completely falls in line with the definition granted for what Ontology is.

No, that wouldn’t be “by my logic”, my logic actually remains true with what’s considered to be fundamental information on wiki, and in general metaphysical terms. While your logic implies Ontology doesn’t pertain to one’s fundamental information, which is just plain wrong.

 

[Kachon123]

Ratio

 

[Deceived3596]

Deadass on that jimmy neutron grindset, having ******* brain blast and shit.

 

[Duedate8898]

Philosophical brain melt.



He directly did regenerate his information, the “transformation” you’re referencing isn’t an independent action completely separate from Shaz’s regeneration, it’s a byproduct of his regeneration. He “transformed” his previous, ontological state of existence through regenerating his damaged existence with another fundamental source different from his imaginary existence, causing it to fundamentally change.

The fact you’re arguing Shaz’s The Vitability, who’s entirely shtick is absorbing Reishi around Shaz to repair his damaged body, has this innate transformation effect that’s completely independent from its regenerative capabilities, is more of an concrete interpretation compared to my argument, which is consistent with the stated effects of his ability, just blatantly proves the level of mental gymnastics one must go through to disagree with my assertions.

Again, Shaz didn't regenerate his information ever. He never had any to begin with if he wasn't made of reishi. He gained information by transforming himself from a being of imagination into a being of reishi. I'm not saying that the transformation is an an effect of the power, it's just a byproduct of how his regeneration works. When his regeneration relies on taking reishi from the surrounding environment to repair himself and he started out as something non-existent, a natural consequence observed in story is that he becomes something existent. His existence isn't ever said to be damage or anything of that nature, the scan you've provided only mentions his body being hurt and reconstructed. Unless you're arguing that Shaz started out as being made purely of information (which there's been no scans of such) there isn't any support for the idea that he "regenerated his information" Your arguement isn't concrete simply because you lack any of the statements or feats which explicitly state the one thing you keep asserting: he regenerated his information.

The evidence provided is substantial, the arguments against that substantialness haven't been substantive, it’s basically been “since this doesn’t directly state information, it can’t be information”, which is just faulty logic.

The evidence you've provided, only either points towards information being in Reishi, which I don't disagree with or is this scan, which neither mentions him regenerating information nor him coming back from having his information destroyed. The rest has been your own interpretation of just what this scan could mean. And the logic is only faulty, when you have substantive evidence to prove opposite of it. Which when asked for, you've failed to provide again and again.

That assumption requires you to believe that Shaz’s The Viability has a completely different effect from its regeneration that somehow allows Shaz to change his fundamental existence without having it be tied towards his regenerative capabilities, despite the blatant fact he changes his fundamental existence through his regeneration…..

Also just a small nitpick, being constructed of imagination in this instance wouldn’t grant Non-Existence Physiology since Shaz still exists on all levels of his aspects, he’s just a different, fundamental existence compared to those constructed of Reishi, it’s at best Abstract Existence.

Abstract Existence wouldn't work because he isn't an abstraction or embodiment of an abstraction, seeing how someone like Guenael Lee interacts with the world mostly like a normal person when not using his ability. Non-Existent Physiology is the most accurate description for the state because he lacks a certain aspect of existence which is required in bleach, that being Reishi. We have a whole section on the page which breaks down the types of non-existences which he would fall under.

 

[Deceived3596]

Again, Shaz didn't regenerate his information ever. He never had any to begin with if he wasn't made of reishi. He gained information by transforming himself from a being of imagination into a being of reishi. I'm not saying that the transformation is an an effect of the power, it's just a byproduct of how his regeneration works. When his regeneration relies on taking reishi from the surrounding environment to repair himself and he started out as something non-existent, a natural consequence observed in story is that he becomes something existent. His existence isn't ever said to be damage or anything of that nature, the scan you've provided only mentions his body being hurt and reconstructed. Unless you're arguing that Shaz started out as being made purely of information (which there's been no scans of such) there isn't any support for the idea that he "regenerated his information" Your arguement isn't concrete simply because you lack any of the statements or feats which explicitly state the one thing you keep asserting: he regenerated his information.

He did regenerate his information, that’s why when he regenerated after being damaged his fundamental existence changed, because it was replaced with new, fundamental information from another source.

He did have fundamental information, the existence of the fact of him changing it proves he does have it, him having different information from Reishi isn’t evidence against him having fundamental information, you’re just wrong on this point Duedate.

You previously were arguing that Shaz’s transformation of fundamental existence was because of a separate effect completely independent from his regeneration, but now you’re pivoting to Shaz not even having a fundamental existence before he gained Reishi constitution, which is just blatantly wrong.

Even steelmanning your argument, being non-existent doesn’t mean you have non-existent fundamental information unless directly proven, we don’t innately assume that since you’re non-existent it means you lack fundamental information, that’s why aspects exist for Nonexistence Physiology.

His fundamental existence was implied to be damaged by the fact that when he regenerated the damage he received, it changed his fundamental existence, it wouldn’t have changed unless it was also damaged, and was replaced by another source of fundamental information.

He could or couldn’t be made entirely of information, my argument isn’t contingent on that, what it’s contingent on is that Shaz regenerated his fundamental information, which I’ve provided credence for, and what you have failed to counter correctly.

There’s multiple pieces of evidence which support my interpretations, while you have provided nothing but speculation which isn’t supported by the text itself.

The evidence you've provided, only either points towards information being in Reishi, which I don't disagree with or is this scan, which neither mentions him regenerating information nor him coming back from having his information destroyed. The rest has been your own interpretation of just what this scan could mean. And the logic is only faulty, when you have substantive evidence to prove opposite of it. Which when asked for, you've failed to provide again and again.

The evidence I’ve provided implicitly proves that Shaz regenerated his fundamental information, trying to obfuscate this by intentionally misinterpreting the evidence just shows how less substantive your arguments are compared to mine.

I’ve prove the opposite true countless times, your arguments against them have been riddled with unneeded assumptions, seemingly intentional misinterpretations and faulty logic.

Abstract Existence wouldn't work because he isn't an abstraction or embodiment of an abstraction, seeing how someone like Guenael Lee interacts with the world mostly like a normal person when not using his ability. Non-Existent Physiology is the most accurate description for the state because he lacks a certain aspect of existence which is required in bleach, that being Reishi. We have a whole section on the page which breaks down the types of non-existences which he would fall under.

Abstract Existence would work because he’s embodying an abstraction, he’s composed of imagination which is fundamentally different from Reishi, which is considered “physical” in comparison with imagination. This would fall under the "thought" type since he's an idea of an existence, an imagination. Nonexistence Physiology necessarily requires you to prove that someone lacks certain aspects of one’s self, which isn’t provable in Shaz’s case, you can’t evidently prove that Shaz lacks these specific aspects about himself.

Being constructed of Reishi isn’t required to have physical, spiritual, mental, informational, conceptual, temporal etc. Existence, where the **** is that ever stated?, you can theoretically have all of those aspects without being constructed of Reishi, you’re just wrong on this point.

 

[Kachon123]

Decieved is making sense to me.

 

[LordGinSama]

Seeing a lot more "whataboutism's" coming from the anti high godly side tbh.

 

[Godernet]

I agree with Decieved's reasoning. It doesn't seem like there should be this much controversy if it's already accepted that Reishi is Type 2 Info and all other requirements have been pretty much universally agreed upon(mind, body, soul)

 

[LordGinSama]

At worst I can see it being downgraded to "At least Mid-Godly, possibly High-Godly."

 

[Duedate8898]

He did regenerate his information, that’s why when he regenerated after being damaged his fundamental existence changed, because it was replaced with new, fundamental information from another source.

He did have fundamental information, the existence of the fact of him changing it proves he does have it, him having different information from Reishi isn’t evidence against him having fundamental information, you’re just wrong on this point Duedate.

Sure, so again, where is the statement that he regenerated his information? Where is the statement that he has fundamental information as an imaginary person? Cause that would easily debunk my entire argument if you provided it right now. How would he even have this information, if he's just a product of Gremmy's imagination? Cause the main scan you've been using throughout all of this, does draw a distinction between what Shaz is made of and Reishi which is all we know to hold information in bleach. The assertion could be made that since Reishi is just spiritual matter that Kishi also holds information, but that assumption doesn't really work surrounding Shaz. In fact, he's directly called an imaginary product, and if something is imganiary it doesn't exist.

You previously were arguing that Shaz’s transformation of fundamental existence was because of a separate effect completely independent from his regeneration, but now you’re pivoting to Shaz not even having a fundamental existence before he gained Reishi constitution, which is just blatantly wrong.

Please find the quote of me arguing that his transformation was completely independent from his regeneration. Cause not a single one of my response post to you here has me saying that ever or even implying it. All I've said is that he never regenerated information cause

Even steelmanning your argument, being non-existent doesn’t mean you have non-existent fundamental information unless directly proven, we don’t innately assume that since you’re non-existent it means you lack fundamental information, that’s why aspects exist for Nonexistence Physiology.

So, somehow someone being a non-existent entity or as the series labels him "an imaginary product" doesn't equate to having non-existent physiology? Instead being non-existent means a character who clearly has a physical form and is not stated to embody an abstraction has abstract existence? How do you not see the huge flaw? How do you read "transform himself into reality" and take that as to meaning he somehow was embodying an abstraction beforehand?

His fundamental existence was implied to be damaged by the fact that when he regenerated the damage he received, it changed his fundamental existence, it wouldn’t have changed unless it was also damaged, and was replaced by another source of fundamental information.

He could or couldn’t be made entirely of information, my argument isn’t contingent on that, what it’s contingent on is that Shaz regenerated his fundamental information, which I’ve provided credence for, and what you have failed to counter correctly.

There’s multiple pieces of evidence which support my interpretations, while you have provided nothing but speculation which isn’t supported by the text itself.

No, no no. That's not how that works at all. You can't just assert because he made himself into a real person through absorbing real things, that means he regenerated something he never had.

Shaz was not a real person. He got hurt. He healed himself using real material. After enough healing, he became a real person. In none of that, does Shaz ever regenerate or regain what he once was, which is an imaginary person. Not to mention, his power itself only absorbs Reishi, not information. Sure Reishi has information inside of it, but going by your logic, every character with like water manipulation or earth manipulation would also get matter manipulation cause atoms compose these things. It's missing the point entirely on the mechanics of the ability itself. Your argument is contigent on Shaz regenerating information yes, but you keep failing to acknowledge that there is no way for him to either possess this information cause the only things we know to possess this fundamental information is again Reishi and because he's never said to regain information because his regeneration is only concerned with his body.

If you can post your multiple pieces of evidence which demonstrates Shaz both having information type 2 as an Imaginary product and him regenerating this information, I'd be happy to see it. Cause everything else you posted so far either isn't clear proof of these assertions.

Abstract Existence would work because he’s embodying an abstraction, he’s composed of imagination which is fundamentally different from Reishi, which is considered “physical” in comparison with imagination. This would fall under the "thought" type since he's an idea of an existence, an imagination. Nonexistence Physiology necessarily requires you to prove that someone lacks certain aspects of one’s self, which isn’t provable in Shaz’s case, you can’t evidently prove that Shaz lacks these specific aspects about himself.

Being constructed of Reishi isn’t required to have physical, spiritual, mental, informational, conceptual, temporal etc. Existence, where the **** is that ever stated?, you can theoretically have all of those aspects without being constructed of Reishi, you’re just wrong on this point.

Being composed of imagination isn't embodying an abstraction, cause it's not representative of any specific idea. He's not embodying imagination or the idea of imagination, he was never stated to in any capacity. Also, have you not checked the Abstract Existence page? There are only two types of Abstract Existences: Type 1 which is when someone lacks a true physical form and is the abstraction itself which means they can only be interacted with through messing the idea that they embody or Type 2 when a character embodies an abstraction which is nowhere close to being an imaginary product. There is no "thought" type of abstract existence.

The main reason I'm still focusing on this aspect is because the type of existence that Shaz possess is important for this argument

So, how else in bleach does someone have spiritual, mental, or information existence without Reishi? There are no other sources of these things within Bleach, unless you're exerting that Gremmy manipulates information with The Visionary which would also requirement statements or feats in order for that to be accepted.

 

[Vietthai96]

There is no "thought" type of abstract existence.

What??, Thought itself is abstract in nature, being pure thought is abstract existence

 

[AppleLord]

He never had any to begin with if he wasn't made of reishi.

https://imgur.io/gallery/KLlCLM2

 

[Theglassman12]

@Deceived3596 Your in depth explanations are literally based on assumptions, especially on it being informational regeneration since at no point in your arguments did you remotely provide evidence that reishi is comprised of information, especially information that's the building block of existence. Regenerating from fundamental existence can mean literally anything, why the hell does this somehow mean that it's information based regen when we even have Ginjo mention that everything is made up of souls in the world? You can say your logic remains true as much as you want, if it gets rejected in the end it means jack shit.

 

[Duedate8898]

https://imgur.io/gallery/KLlCLM2

Seeing as it's impossible for Shaz to be made of Kishi while inside of Soul Society, that only leaves him with ability to be made of Reishi if he is to have information type 2. So I don't know what exactly you're trying to prove with this.

What??, Thought itself is abstract in nature, being pure thought is abstract existence

The thing is, Shaz wasn't pure thought. We know he isn't because the only other being who existed as he did, Guenael Lee, could be interacted with like a normal person when not utilizing his power. He can be punched and touched, hence why he uses his powers to avoid that happening to him. Once more to have abstract existence, you have to embody a concept and neither Shaz nor Lee embody any concepts or ideas. They are born from thought, but they are clearly not the thoughts themselves.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The thing is, Shaz wasn't pure thought. We know he isn't because the only other being who existed as he did, Guenael Lee, could be interacted with like a normal person when not utilizing his power. He can be punched and touched, hence why he uses his powers to avoid that happening to him. Once more to have abstract existence, you have to embody a concept and neither Shaz nor Lee embody any concepts or ideas. They are born from thought, but they are clearly not the thoughts themselves.

Just saying Gunnel Lee point doesn't disapprove the abstract existence if other characters can interact with him. Many verses have same mechanism we just gives characters who can interact with Abstract Existence NPI thats what it comes under.

 

[Duedate8898]

Yes, it is true that we normally just give NPI if someone is found out to be able to interact with someone else who possess abstract existence. I bring it up as a point however because people interacting with Lee directly shows he and Shaz do not possess Type 1 Abstract Existence .

 

[KingogKings777]

@KingogKings777 Quote the text that says information that's the fundamental part of one's existence. If you can give me the text right now I'd really appreciate it. You keep saying it falls under High-Godly but you haven't given me any evidence that this qualifies for high godly, especially information levels since none of the text mentions information being what reishi is made up of.

@Arkenis Atoms literally make up all matter in the universe. Anything lower than that wouldn't really be considered matter. Point is claiming that fundamentals gets regened just because of spirit matter doesn't mean high godly, at best that's mid godly.

@deonment Ok, so give me some examples of characters having high godly regen that do not remotely fall under any of the 4 types of high godly regen that we have. Because I don't recall seeing any characters who have high godly with none of the 4 requirements.

You mean the two scans I sent that explain what high godly is along with information type 2? Like my dude read.

 

[KingogKings777]

Seeing as it's impossible for Shaz to be made of Kishi while inside of Soul Society, that only leaves him with ability to be made of Reishi if he is to have information type 2. So I don't know what exactly you're trying to prove with this.

The thing is, Shaz wasn't pure thought. We know he isn't because the only other being who existed as he did, Guenael Lee, could be interacted with like a normal person when not utilizing his power. He can be punched and touched, hence why he uses his powers to avoid that happening to him. Once more to have abstract existence, you have to embody a concept and neither Shaz nor Lee embody any concepts or ideas. They are born from thought, but they are clearly not the thoughts themselves.

Are you claiming that Gremmy created Shaz out of Reishi then?

 

[Duedate8898]

No, I think its understood that Shaz and Lee are made of imagination, something that is neither Reishi nor Kishi. Therefore something which would lack the fundamental information needed for him to qualify for High-Godly regen.

 

[KingogKings777]

No, I think its understood that Shaz and Lee are made of imagination, something that is neither Reishi nor Kishi. Therefore something which would lack the fundamental information needed for him to qualify for High-Godly regen.

So they are both Abstract Existence then are they not?

 

[Duedate8898]

If you can get me what idea Shaz represented then sure, he'd qualify for Abstract Existence Type 2. Until then, no he instead would have had Non-Existent Physiology.

 

[KINGWILLTHEGREAT0815]

I agree with Deceived reasoning more so than anything else it makes the most sense to me. By wiki standards Shaz viability would fall under him having high godly regen due to the information we’re given about how his regeneration works. Also if it’s already accepted that Reishi is Type 2 Info and it (meets mind, body, soul) needed for high godly I don’t see why there’s still a argument about this. There’s a lot more assumptions being made on the anti-regen side and I’m not convinced with there reasoning. You can switch my vote from neutral to disagree on regen.

 

[KingogKings777]

Shaz's nature would be exactly similar to Ji Ning's, but instead of it being conceptual, it would be fundamental information, both are acceptable forms of fundamental aspects which grant High-Godly.

Ji Ning's regeneration seemingly doesn't state anything conceptual directly, but has multiple implications which would make it fall under our requirements for conceptual regeneration, with that being accepted, but when Shaz has those same implications, just for fundamental information, now we need exact, direct statements which explicitly state information.

It just smells of bias tbh.

I'll address Glassman's and Duedate's arguments shortly, just got done doing my boxing training.

Go downgrade Ji Ning after this.

 

[Duedate8898]

I agree with Deceived reasoning more so than anything else it makes the most sense to me. By wiki standards Shaz viability would fall under him having high godly regen due to the information we’re given about how his regeneration works. Also if it’s already accepted that Reishi is Type 2 Info and it (meets mind, body, soul) needed for high godly I don’t see why there’s still a argument about this. There’s a lot more assumptions being made on the anti-regen side and I’m not convinced with there reasoning. You can switch my vote from neutral to disagree on regen.

Reishi itself is not Type 2 information, it just has Type 2 information within it. That distinction is important because Shaz is only ever stated to absorb the Reishi of his surrounding environment to regenerate himself. If all he's using to put himself back together is more Reishi then Shaz would only get Mid-Godly regen since he could come back from the destruction of his Reishi body.

 

[KingogKings777]

If you can get me what idea Shaz represented then sure, he'd qualify for Abstract Existence Type 2. Until then, no he instead would have had Non-Existent Physiology.

Why can he not represent the idea of Shaz himself which he was created by Gremmy. Shaz was never reishi or kishi when created he was a being of thought created by Gremmy, which was Shaz.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Yes, it is true that we normally just give NPI if someone is found out to be able to interact with someone else who possess abstract existence. I bring it up as a point however because people interacting with Lee directly shows he and Shaz do not possess Type 1 Abstract Existence .

I always found that strange.

Guenael Lee has Abstract Existence in his profile because he is an imaginary product (although he is made by an ability that turns thought into something real, and everyone can interact with him normally)

Weird that Shaz doesn't have that too, since he was also made by Gremmy. Do you intend to make a CRT later on this Abstract Existence by Guenael Lee?

 

[Duedate8898]

Why can he not represent the idea of Shaz himself which he was created by Gremmy. Shaz was never reishi or kishi when created he was a being of thought created by Gremmy, which was Shaz.

Because that's never stated anywhere that he represented the idea of himself. To get Abstract Existence you must have a statement of actually being abstract or embodying something abstract. Being described as an imaginary product isn't either of those things.

I always found that strange.

Guenael Lee has Abstract Existence in his profile because he is an imaginary product (although he is made by an ability that turns thought into something real, and everyone can interact with him normally)

Weird that Shaz doesn't have that too, since he was also made by Gremmy. Do you intend to make a CRT later on this Abstract Existence by Guenael Lee?

Yes, looking at Lee, I don't know if it's a hold over from longer in the wiki's pass or some CRT that just didn't interrogate the point, but it's got to go. The removal of it from Lee's profile however is an entire separate conversation from this.

Go downgrade Ji Ning after this.

Also a separate conversation from this that can be had in a thread about Ji Ning's regeneration

 

[skippy]

I dont know if this is relevant to zhe conversation but in Bleach there are things not made of Reishi, take for example the Kōtotsu or the Auswählen.
The Kōtotsu being a creature of reason and not something Reishi can interact with,until Aizen .
And Auswählen is described to be pure power and something like Kirio cage of Life which absorbs reishi cant stop.

 

[Loyd]

Agree with everything except concept hax for Ichibei.

 

[Theglassman12]

@KingogKings777 Post the scans then, just telling me to read isn’t going to convince me when you’re not giving me the evidence that it’s made of type 2 information.

 

[KingogKings777]

Because that's never stated anywhere that he represented the idea of himself. To get Abstract Existence you must have a statement of actually being abstract or embodying something abstract. Being described as an imaginary product isn't either of those things.

We just went over what Abstract Existence is.

So what is Shaz? A thought is he not? Did it not already get proven by Deceived scans which states that he was nothing more then an imaginary product like Lee.

Which is accepted as Abstract Existence (Type 1 - Informational).

 

[KingogKings777]

@KingogKings777 Post the scans then, just telling me to read isn’t going to convince me when you’re not giving me the evidence that it’s made of type 2 information.

So did you like choose to ignore everything on purpose cause you couldn't counter or what?

This is what you asked.

What's this? My reply that had the definition of High-Godly and that it explained what information type 2 is since it says that is also acceptable for it? Damn.

 

[Damage3245]

So what is Shaz? A thought is he not? Did it not already get proven by Deceived scans which states that he was nothing more then an imaginary product like Lee. Which is accepted as Abstract Existence (Type 1 - Informational).

The page also says this:

Embodying a concept is not enough to obtain this ability, an abstract needs feats or reliable statements proving that the concept they represent grants them Immortality/Regeneration or control over the abstraction.

Shaz doesn't get his immortality / regeneration from being a thought, and he doesn't have control over the thought either.

He's also not purely an abstraction because he does also have a physical form.

 

[KingogKings777]

The page also says this:



Shaz doesn't get his immortality / regeneration from being a thought, and he doesn't have control over the thought either.

He's also not purely an abstraction because he does also have a physical form.

Where does Shaz get his immortality/regeneration from?

 

[Damage3245]

Where does Shaz get his immortality/regeneration from?

From his Schrift, the Viability (renamed by Yhwach to be Sigma).

If it was from being an abstraction, then Guaneal Lee would have the same ability, but he doesn't.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

From his Schrift, the Viability (renamed by Yhwach to be Sigma).

If it was from being an abstraction, then Guaneal Lee would have the same ability, but he doesn't.

From the scan viability is innate ability of Shaz not a schrift but yhwach changed it into schrift. So your argument is wrong