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- #281
You know Hisagi only was able to “react” because he predicted that Hikone would go after Aura right? Like they make that explicitly obvious…
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Bleach God Tier Slight Speed Revision
- Thread starter Arc7Kuroi
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Arcker123
He/Him- 8,063
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Bro cannot understand the argument that’s being presented. The point he’s making is that is “witnessing” =\= reaction.
“Witnessed” means:
see (an event, typically a crime or accident) take place.
Or
have knowledge of (an event or change) from personal observation or experience.
None of this implies reaction. See back to the bullet example.
thetechmaster36
He/Him- 1,823
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You can see a bullet though? Unless it's literally like 1 centimeter away from your eyes, it's very much possible to see a bullet.
But again, seeing something doesn't mean you are able to react to it. Your stonewalling is seriously getting annoying, please stop.
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Imma start issuing thread bans if those who are derailing keep derailing
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Simple, pay attention:
-Hikone and Hisagi start their movement based on Tokinada's words.
-In the same timeframe that Hikone moves from above the palace, Hisagi moves a few meters behind Aura.
-Those characters normally can react to something in the timeframe Hisagi needs to move a few meters.
What Hisagi reacts to is less relevant that the timeframe he needs to move around.
Tokinada speaks-Hikone and Hisagi move-Everyone supossedly stays still while Hisagi actually runs a few meters.
See?
By that same definition, they saw Hikone move, if they where not surprised or confused they would have reacted to that stimulus, because the time they had to do so was enough for Hisagi to move a certain distance.
You can't see a bullet, unless is something like a tracer seen from a distance.
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The “everyone who disagrees just ignored the text” mentality is really close-minded you know
Arcker and Arc summed up my thoughts on this. There’s no reason to push this topic further.
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Well I can quote all the non-answer and nonsense if you want, including giving a wrong definition of what witnessing means.
See this post?
They are completely refuted by this single sentence
“Those who witnessed the movement felt as though time was stopped around them”
While the calc itself using a timeframe derived from characters not moving is derailed by a character slower tham those previously mentioned characters, actually moving.
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"Witnessed" does not correlate to reaction at all. The movement could've begun and ended with them only seeing the start and the end, and that would qualify as "witnessing" the movement
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- #291
Can you name who exactly witnessed? Can you show me where in that sentence it says “Grimmjow witnessed Hikone”? You can’t, and that’s what Arcker has been telling you over and over again. You know what the author does say about the characters? He says they couldn’t react.
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Sure but it means two things
1- They saw the movements
2- Hikone moves from a to b in what Hisagi moves from x to y, that x to y timeframe is more than enough for the characters to normally react.
Why?
Because there's no way Hisagi could use Shunpo faster than top captains movement or reaction time.
The people in the courtyard from the FRP who are all about as fast as Grimmjow.
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- #293
No no no, I asked you to show me where in that sentence it mentions specifically who witnessed. I want names, I want you to show me where in the novel the author says x, y, and x witnessed Hikone.
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That's dumb, they all are replaceable for Grimmjaw, and he more than likely witnessed the movement too.
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- #295
Ok well I’ll take this as a concession to the point considering you cannot provide any proof of characters witnessing Hikone. You failed to provide evidence that the battle group witnessed it.
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The word "witnessed" means multiple things. We take what's consistent with everything, and that would be the idea that they registered that Hikone moved that distance, but they didn't see the movement itself
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No, they are stated to have witnessed the movements, Grimmjow isn't singled out but that's irrelevant since everyone has at least his same speed.
Can you prove nobody in the alliance saw Hikone?
“Those who witnessed the movement felt as though time was stopped around them”
But they are said to witnessed the movement itself, none of them thought Hikone teleported there.
But anyway, the calc is based on a timeframe based on Grimmjaw not moving, yet Hisagi, who is slower that the Arrancar, did have time to move a lot, so the timeframe can't be precisely determined.
What can objectively be said is Hikone moved 10km in what Hisagi moved 100m, for example.
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- #298
No it isn't, my calc is not based on that at all.
"Witnessing those movements, which could have been described as beautiful, most of those present weren't able to respond immediately. There was just one who was up to it. Only one of them had realized that Hikone would promptly, without any hesitation whatsoever, come to kill Aura"
Allow me to English 101 this statement with you. The author tells us that everyone except Shuhei was capable of reacting, those present could not respond. However, the only person who could, Shuhei, was able to respond because he predicted where Hikone would go ahead of time. As the author said, Shuhei realized Hikone would come to slay Aura.
Now to clear away your misconception of my calc, for whatever reason, you think my calc is a perception blitz calc, it isn't. Read this following quote:
"Those who witnessed the moment felt as though time had stopped around them."
Now read this blog. I am calcing Hikone's movement being so fast that time appeared to stop.
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That's even sillier because the time stopping subjective phenomenon happens to some of the observers, not to Hikone or Hisagi.
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- #300
Well my goal here isn't to convince you that my calcs are fine, I understand the science behind it, CGM understand it, if you can't that doesn't fall on me.
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I don't understand the science, and probably neither do you.
I do know this doesn't work:
Hikone isn't the one perceiving time to slow down, is the other characters, if you are right it would be the characters watching Hikone that are moving at near lightspeed.
“Those who witnessed the movement felt as though time was stopped around them”
You could say there's still some special relativity effects, but no there isn't, because Hisagi wasn't affected.
Arcker123
He/Him- 8,063
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I can witness someone shoot another person.
Does not make me capable of exactly perceiving or reacting to the bullet.
By definition, to witness something is to see or know an event by personal experience. I don’t understand how you could possibly think it follows from this that I (in the bullet example) must be bullet level in speed if I were to witness a shooting.
Does not make me capable of exactly perceiving or reacting to the bullet.
By definition, to witness something is to see or know an event by personal experience. I don’t understand how you could possibly think it follows from this that I (in the bullet example) must be bullet level in speed if I were to witness a shooting.
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the thread is getting really derailed
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- #304
Yes, let's please halt the derailing and wait for Damage to address calcs 1 and 3.
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This is more witnessing the bullet itself.
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Some definitions of "Witness" for you, my friend: "to have personal or direct cognizance of" Merriam Webster, and "to be the time or place when (something) happens" Britannica.
Notice how being there and knowing it happened makes you a witness to it. Almost like what Grimmjow and the captains did
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- #307
Not trying to be down your throat about this, but you got a guesstimated time when you'll have those ready?
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Addressing the 2nd method first:
My understanding is that for this method to be applicable, the subject (Candice) actually has to be moving and that movement has to be what is "as slow as a snail" relative to Ichigo. After all, if Candice is already standing still then she is not "appearing to stand still".
I'm hoping another calc member can back me up on that in case my interpretation is incorrect. If Candice simply failing to react to Ichigo though is applicable for it, then it's fine.
Addressing the 1st method soon.
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- #309
Gotcha, what about the "True Shikai Ichigo's crash"?
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I'm entirely neutral on that as I don't believe the Seireitei radius value is appropriate there, so can't comment on it.
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- #311
Fair enough, I'll try to get some more CGM to comment on it.
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That's dumb, "to be the time or place when (something) happens" refers to this:
5 : to constitute the scene or time of something; EX:...structures … which this striking Dorset hilltop once witnessed — The Times Literary Supplement (London)
How can you misinterpret a dictionary?
Being there, knowing the movements happened in the context of the novel means they saw them.
Arcker123
He/Him- 8,063
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Again, I can be somewhere and see and know person A shot Person B, without being able to react to the bullet. What aren’t you getting? Constituting a scene does not mean anything for reaction.
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Again, you can't see the bullet, the characters are seeing Hikone's movement.
Arcker123
He/Him- 8,063
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Prove that lmao. All the scans you gave says they “witnessed” the movement. I’ve already beaten you over the head several times explaining how witnessing ==\== reaction
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Witnessing means they saw him move, they didn't react because of surprise and confusion at the mixture of techniques used by Hikone, all of that is indisputably established in the text.
But in the end the timeframe being enough for Hisagi to use Shunpo is what causes imprecision in the feat.
Arcker123
He/Him- 8,063
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I swear this argument is going in circles. You’ve just been repeating yourself without responding to what I said.
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We're literally explaining how "witnessing" doesn't necessarily mean they saw the movement. Witnessing someone shoot something was an example of that.
Yeah I'm with Arcker on this one. Concession via burden of rejoinder because you don't actually refute anything, you just repeat the same tired, debunked points.
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Your explanation is wortless given context of them seeing Hikone, there's no real equivalence to the shooting someone example, period.
I'm not the one using wrong definitios to try an justify my point.
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