- 1,200
- 109
Yhwach lifted the whole Wandenreich from Seireitei to SK palaceTataHakai said:
You can even see at the end of Yhwach vs Ichigo and Aizen fight where there are no quincy buildings left in the seireitei.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Bleach Calculation Flaws and God-Tier Scaling removal
- Thread starter RavenSupreme
- Start date
You can even see at the end of Yhwach vs Ichigo and Aizen fight where there are no quincy buildings left in the seireitei.
- 31,024
- 27,065
MachTwo, saying he lifted the whole Wandenreich up is meaningless is the assumed size of the Wandenreich is completely inconsistent with how it appears.
And assuming the Royal Palace is as big as the Wandenreich or Seireitei is completely baseless.
And assuming the Royal Palace is as big as the Wandenreich or Seireitei is completely baseless.
- 1,200
- 109
Assuming the Royal Palace is not as big as the Wandenreich or Seireitei is completely baseless.
We have multiple confirmation who clarifies that Yhwach has lifted whole Wandenreich into SK Palace, if SK Palace is nowhere near as big as Wandenreich or Seireitei, where do all the rocks and concrete from Wandenreich go? Yhwach erase them out of existence?
We have multiple confirmation who clarifies that Yhwach has lifted whole Wandenreich into SK Palace, if SK Palace is nowhere near as big as Wandenreich or Seireitei, where do all the rocks and concrete from Wandenreich go? Yhwach erase them out of existence?
- 14,956
- 1,830
Luckily you wont have to since there is a 500 post limitSigurd Snake in The Eye said:
.
- 1,200
- 109
I see so you completely missed my other point and multiple pics that I linked to you
Now lets me repeat this.
First Wandenreich is a big as Seireitei and Yhwach has lifted whole Wandenreich into SK, there are statementwho clrealy said that in those scans and not only that, you can see it yourself at the end of Yhwach vs Ichigo and Aizen fight where there are no quincy buildings left in the seireitei.
Second, If we assume that Royal Palace is nowhere near as big as Wandenreich or Seireitei, then where do all the rocks and concrete from Wandenreich go? When we have visual proof who show that Wandenreich is a big as Seireitei and we have multiple evidence who clearly said Yhwach has lifted whole Wandenreich into SK Palace.
Now lets me repeat this.
First Wandenreich is a big as Seireitei and Yhwach has lifted whole Wandenreich into SK, there are statementwho clrealy said that in those scans and not only that, you can see it yourself at the end of Yhwach vs Ichigo and Aizen fight where there are no quincy buildings left in the seireitei.
Second, If we assume that Royal Palace is nowhere near as big as Wandenreich or Seireitei, then where do all the rocks and concrete from Wandenreich go? When we have visual proof who show that Wandenreich is a big as Seireitei and we have multiple evidence who clearly said Yhwach has lifted whole Wandenreich into SK Palace.
- 31,024
- 27,065
He didn't lift the entire wandenreich, the wandenreich exists in another "space" to Seireitei so i'm not sure when the ENTIRE thing was shown and there were no buildings as you're claiming.TataHakai said:
To add on to this, he only lifted up the Wandenreich's cityscape - and we could only see buildings lifted up from the characters point of view.
As in, all of the buildings and structure you'd find in the Quincy city.
Not nearly the same thing as lifted up an entire country.
- 20,729
- 3,679
Imma ask everyone to cool down.
Have a cold shower or something. This is a fanmade calc. Its not relevant in your life. Your life wont change if Bleach is High 1-A, High 6-A or 5-C with irrelevant speed. So... Please leave the unnecesary rude or confrontational comments outside this thread, pretty please.
Have a cold shower or something. This is a fanmade calc. Its not relevant in your life. Your life wont change if Bleach is High 1-A, High 6-A or 5-C with irrelevant speed. So... Please leave the unnecesary rude or confrontational comments outside this thread, pretty please.
- 4,310
- 2,923
1) The Wandenreich is equal in size to Seireitei. The Wandenreich replaced all of Seireitei and previously was in Seireitei's shadow, it was hidden inside of it. They are the exact same size.
2) It was the entire Wandenreich that was lifted. The Wandenreich that covered the Seireitei was lifted off the Seireitei and Seireitei finally returned all over.
Diagram of the Calc
3) Raven's assumption that the Royal Palace is equal in diameter to the Seireitei is a massive lowball per the diagram. It ignores the majority of the area of the Wandenreich's size and instead only uses the area of 6 circles inside of the Wandenreich's area.
2) It was the entire Wandenreich that was lifted. The Wandenreich that covered the Seireitei was lifted off the Seireitei and Seireitei finally returned all over.
Diagram of the Calc
3) Raven's assumption that the Royal Palace is equal in diameter to the Seireitei is a massive lowball per the diagram. It ignores the majority of the area of the Wandenreich's size and instead only uses the area of 6 circles inside of the Wandenreich's area.
- 31,024
- 27,065
IMade, the problem is that not all of the Seireitei or Wandenreich is city - supposedly there are huge forests and mountainous regions.
The only thing that was seen and stated to be lifted up was the cityscape. Essentially, he lifted up the buildings within sight of the Shinigami on the ground.
Assuming that the Royal Palace is as large as the Wandenreich / Seireitei is baseless; it's been shown that Yhwach has great control over the contents of the Royal Palace. There is no requirement for him to keep at at the same size of as the Wandenreich and any visual inspection of the palace at any point in the series shows that it is not even close to that size.
We see Gerard breaking one of the 5 struts connecting the central circle to one of the outer circles (which Toshiro then froze); are you proposing we scale that strut to being tens of kilometers wide?
The only thing that was seen and stated to be lifted up was the cityscape. Essentially, he lifted up the buildings within sight of the Shinigami on the ground.
Assuming that the Royal Palace is as large as the Wandenreich / Seireitei is baseless; it's been shown that Yhwach has great control over the contents of the Royal Palace. There is no requirement for him to keep at at the same size of as the Wandenreich and any visual inspection of the palace at any point in the series shows that it is not even close to that size.
We see Gerard breaking one of the 5 struts connecting the central circle to one of the outer circles (which Toshiro then froze); are you proposing we scale that strut to being tens of kilometers wide?
- 4,310
- 2,923
Seireitei has huge forests and mountainous regions, there's a literal quote about it having such. You're confusing the Seireitei with the Wandenreich.
The entire Wandenreich covered the Seireitei and Yhwach lifted it all.
As I've shown in diagram, the assumption that the Royal Palace is equal in diameter to Wandenreich / Seireitei is a huge lowball. It severely lowers the amount of area that was lifted and makes the calc safer.
Gerard breaking a strut doesn't mean much when he scales to higher numbers through Kenpachi. However, I do recall a calc of that scene by The Casuality where it yield Small Counter level.
The entire Wandenreich covered the Seireitei and Yhwach lifted it all.
As I've shown in diagram, the assumption that the Royal Palace is equal in diameter to Wandenreich / Seireitei is a huge lowball. It severely lowers the amount of area that was lifted and makes the calc safer.
Gerard breaking a strut doesn't mean much when he scales to higher numbers through Kenpachi. However, I do recall a calc of that scene by The Casuality where it yield Small Counter level.
- 533
- 43
There was also a statement that says they were two worlds of the same space,even rukia mistook wandenriech for seretei.I can't remember where I saw this,am going to find it and post it here.IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:1) The Wandenreich is equal in size to Seireitei. The Wandenreich replaced all of Seireitei and previously was in Seireitei's shadow, it was hidden inside of it. They are the exact same size.
2) It was the entire Wandenreich that was lifted. The Wandenreich that covered the Seireitei was lifted off the Seireitei and Seireitei finally returned all over.
Diagram of the Calc
3) Raven's assumption that the Royal Palace is equal in diameter to the Seireitei is a massive lowball per the diagram. It ignores the majority of the area of the Wandenreich's size and instead only uses the area of 6 circles inside of the Wandenreich's area.
- 31,024
- 27,065
> Seireitei has huge forests and mountainous regions, there's a literal quote about it having such. You're confusing the Seireitei with the Wandenreich.
If the Wandenreich is a mirror image of Seireitei, why would it not have those same city-less areas?
> Gerard breaking a strut doesn't mean much when he scales to higher numbers through Kenpachi.
That's not the point though; if you're saying what he broke is 10's of kilometers wide through this scaling of the Royal Palace's size; but we can see on-panel that it is clearly not anywhere close to 10's of kilometers wide, then there is a contradiction.
Essentially with this calc we are just completely making up all of the sizes in the Royal Palace.
Buildings are now several kilometers tall. Every character is now hundreds of meters tall.
EDIT: Calling this calc a low-ball doesn't change the fact that it is based on wrong assumptions.
If the Wandenreich is a mirror image of Seireitei, why would it not have those same city-less areas?
> Gerard breaking a strut doesn't mean much when he scales to higher numbers through Kenpachi.
That's not the point though; if you're saying what he broke is 10's of kilometers wide through this scaling of the Royal Palace's size; but we can see on-panel that it is clearly not anywhere close to 10's of kilometers wide, then there is a contradiction.
Essentially with this calc we are just completely making up all of the sizes in the Royal Palace.
Buildings are now several kilometers tall. Every character is now hundreds of meters tall.
EDIT: Calling this calc a low-ball doesn't change the fact that it is based on wrong assumptions.
- 31,024
- 27,065
Well, PaChi, those buildings are all now several kilometers tall, making the whole volume of destroyed area bigger than most mountains.
Lille is now also upgraded to Type 1 size for being dozens of meters tall.
Lille is now also upgraded to Type 1 size for being dozens of meters tall.
- 1,796
- 255
- Thread starter
- #145
Apparently there is no question or concern regarding the math of the calculation.
The only question which the community is divided at seems to be whether or not the size of Seireite can be applied to Wandenreich.
Have I got that right?
The only question which the community is divided at seems to be whether or not the size of Seireite can be applied to Wandenreich.
Have I got that right?
- 1,200
- 109
The same can be saidfor Seireitei
Bear in mind this is the same place who supposed to have forests and mountainous regions, and as I said above we have statement and and strangely enough visual proof who show no Quincy building lelf in the Seireitei, indicated that Yhwach has lifted whole Wandenreich into SK Palace, because otherwise where does all those building go?
Plus Its the same situation if SK Palace is way smaller than Seireitei and Wandenreich, where does all the rocks and concrete go?
Bear in mind this is the same place who supposed to have forests and mountainous regions, and as I said above we have statement and and strangely enough visual proof who show no Quincy building lelf in the Seireitei, indicated that Yhwach has lifted whole Wandenreich into SK Palace, because otherwise where does all those building go?
Plus Its the same situation if SK Palace is way smaller than Seireitei and Wandenreich, where does all the rocks and concrete go?
- 31,024
- 27,065
Pretty much what PaChi2 said. Every visual of the Royal Palace indicates it is much smaller than the Seireitei/Wandenreich.
Accepting this new size would affect other calc involving the Royal Palace such as Gerard's feat, Toshiro's feat and Lille Barro's feat. Which would create clear inconsistencies because the sizes in those calcs should not be warped to the degree that the new Royal Palace size would suggest.
Accepting this new size would affect other calc involving the Royal Palace such as Gerard's feat, Toshiro's feat and Lille Barro's feat. Which would create clear inconsistencies because the sizes in those calcs should not be warped to the degree that the new Royal Palace size would suggest.
- 4,310
- 2,923
No because Wandenreich isn't a mirror image of Seireitei (nothing ever says, that, again you are mistaken), they literally have different architecture and layout of buildings.Damage3245 said:
I can see your stance on disagreeing with the Royal Guard's size, but you realize the other method would further increase the calc's yield? Raven's method was done as a lowball.
- 31,024
- 27,065
What statements exist for the Royal Palace?MachTwo said:
IMade; no matter what the result of this calc is, or a future calc, if it based on wrong assumptions then I will be against it.
Do you think I'd be against a more accurate calc because it gives a higher yield?
- 1,796
- 255
- Thread starter
- #152
Alright, so this is not a matter of mathematical values, but a matter of believe. Believing whether to apply the size of SS or not. I based my believe of it being applicable, for the reasons several posters have posted. I also would like to refer to Kepekley on this matter, seein how it was also thanks to his posts that I shared that assessment.
-
For near every pixel scaling we do for every series we find several other panels from that same series or sometimes from the same panel which would technically debunk our findings going by a pure technical approach.
I decided to use a single double spread panel to scale everything, seeing how I was under the impression that we as a community agree that it is the most reliable way of finding scalings since while inconsistencies in the Art are always present and everywhere, in a single panel scaling they are all in one place and allow us to distinguish between important foreground and background additions which are not meant to be portraied 1:1 but as an indicator of what the author intended to convey.
-
I am convinced that neither side, the ones who believe that WR is = SS nor the ones believing its not will give one inch in their believe.
Hence my question is not to give up that believe, but to point out possible flaws outside of that believe. If not, then it all boils down to a majority agreement which believe is more appropriate.
-
For near every pixel scaling we do for every series we find several other panels from that same series or sometimes from the same panel which would technically debunk our findings going by a pure technical approach.
I decided to use a single double spread panel to scale everything, seeing how I was under the impression that we as a community agree that it is the most reliable way of finding scalings since while inconsistencies in the Art are always present and everywhere, in a single panel scaling they are all in one place and allow us to distinguish between important foreground and background additions which are not meant to be portraied 1:1 but as an indicator of what the author intended to convey.
-
I am convinced that neither side, the ones who believe that WR is = SS nor the ones believing its not will give one inch in their believe.
Hence my question is not to give up that believe, but to point out possible flaws outside of that believe. If not, then it all boils down to a majority agreement which believe is more appropriate.
- 31,024
- 27,065
For what it is worth Raven, you did a good job with the calc and there's nothing wrong with it mathematically.
It's just that it is based on an assumption that is contradictory to everything else we see in the series (and what the other calcs of feats in the Royal Palace are based on).
If we gathered a list of all the visuals of the Royal Palace, then it can be shown be to be consistantly smaller than the Seireitei.
It's just that it is based on an assumption that is contradictory to everything else we see in the series (and what the other calcs of feats in the Royal Palace are based on).
If we gathered a list of all the visuals of the Royal Palace, then it can be shown be to be consistantly smaller than the Seireitei.
That's sort of the point. If there isn't huge amounts of missing rocks and concrete, then a possible explanation is that the feat of 'lifting the Wandenreich' was smaller and less impressive than it currently sounds.MachTwo said:
- 1,796
- 255
- Thread starter
- #155
Thank you. Yes, I was under the impression that the assessment: Wandenreich equals Seireitei is an agreed upon value with no contestion. If there exists controversy around it the community has to decide what to apply.Damage3245 said:
However, the panel I used has no clear distinguishable buildings which span more than a couple pixels. Which is why I called them "background" additions. They are drawn with just a couple of lines, not outlined and are, in my eyes, not meant to be scaled in their literal sense but a means to convey that the buildings have been transferred and rearranged there as well.
Every other panels outside of that panel I used for scaling hence should not be used as a direct comparison, but the buildings should be scaled individual to find their height and width - in panels where they are the main focus.
-
I am of the believe other members of the staff or calc group should give their input. I will maybe notify them.
- 20,729
- 3,679
"Alright, so this is not a matter of mathematical values, but a matter of believe. Believing whether to apply the size of SS or not. I based my believe of it being applicable, for the reasons several posters have posted. I also would like to refer to Kepekley on this matter, seein how it was also thanks to his posts that I shared that assessment."
This is what its being questioned.
In your calc it'd be the c) section. Some believe it to be legit, others not. Thats the deal.
This is what its being questioned.
In your calc it'd be the c) section. Some believe it to be legit, others not. Thats the deal.
- 1,796
- 255
- Thread starter
- #157
I like to refer to Antvasimas comment in my blog. He asked to create a Calc group / staff Discussion thread regarding the matter.
I will do so, which hopefully lets us move forward.
I will do so, which hopefully lets us move forward.
- 4,310
- 2,923
The size of Seireitei being equal to Wandenreich is correct, those contesting the calc are stating that the Royal Palace does not equal either in diameter.
We legitimately do not have a statement for Royal Palace's size being that the floating disc containing multiple cities among them, with one having an ocean. That's it.
We legitimately do not have a statement for Royal Palace's size being that the floating disc containing multiple cities among them, with one having an ocean. That's it.
- 20,729
- 3,679
How about we try not to provoke others.MachTwo said:
Your question at the bottom is moot btw, if we started questioning everything like that you'd have to answer how come the buildings are now kilometers tall and the characters dozens of meters tall going by the new scaling.
- 1,200
- 109
>If we gathered a list of all the visuals of the Royal Palace, then it can be shown be to be consistantly smaller than the Seireitei.
We have gathered all Statements who said otherwise and linked it above.
Plus Im fairy sure we go with Statements over visuals for Seireitei and Las Noches, So why now we do the otherwise for SK Palace?
>That's sort of the point. If there isn't huge amounts of missing rocks and concrete, then a possible explanation is that the feat of 'lifting the Wandenreich' was smaller and less impressive than it currently sounds.
I see, once again you didn't follow the discussion huh? As I said above all of the Quincy Building in Seireitei is missing, you can see it yourself in Yhwach vs Aizen and Ichigo Fight, add that proof and Statements who said Yhwach has lifted the entire Wandenreich up to SK palace and we can be sure that SK Palace is roughly at the same size with Seireitei
We have gathered all Statements who said otherwise and linked it above.
Plus Im fairy sure we go with Statements over visuals for Seireitei and Las Noches, So why now we do the otherwise for SK Palace?
>That's sort of the point. If there isn't huge amounts of missing rocks and concrete, then a possible explanation is that the feat of 'lifting the Wandenreich' was smaller and less impressive than it currently sounds.
I see, once again you didn't follow the discussion huh? As I said above all of the Quincy Building in Seireitei is missing, you can see it yourself in Yhwach vs Aizen and Ichigo Fight, add that proof and Statements who said Yhwach has lifted the entire Wandenreich up to SK palace and we can be sure that SK Palace is roughly at the same size with Seireitei
Similar threads
- Locked
