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The Wyper's Bazooka calculations need to be removed
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Yee this wierd aggression/attacking needs to stop
The thread will simply just have no conclusion or just be delayed for no reason if your just going to keep attacking instead of trying to understand, compromise and find an accurate calculation/solution
The thread will simply just have no conclusion or just be delayed for no reason if your just going to keep attacking instead of trying to understand, compromise and find an accurate calculation/solution
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- #43
Yeah. I am trying to focus on the arguments here.
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Yeah I'm done
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- #45
Anyway, that's important at hand: Calc 2 and 3 are agreed to be contradicted by Damage and tempest.
Calc 1 is heavily put to questioning due to several factors contradicting it's assumption. Let's go back to this. Haven't seen any real reason why it should stay given it uses the same unreliable assumption as the other 2.
Calc 1 is heavily put to questioning due to several factors contradicting it's assumption. Let's go back to this. Haven't seen any real reason why it should stay given it uses the same unreliable assumption as the other 2.
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Nah from what I've seen, you've this whole thread attacked and been on this weird passive-aggressive thing instead of trying to compromise on anything
Not saying tempest hasn't done anything but he's clearly at least tried to make you understand about the accuracy of the calculations that he himself made
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- #47
Not actually true. But I won't bother going into this as it'd just drive away from the calculations at hand.
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We use the anime if the manga doesn't give enough information or anything otherwise you can't use the anime for sizes if the manga already gives you that information
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- #49
"If the manga is clear enough, the anime should not be used." is what you linked.
The manga isn't clear enough on the size of these trees. It's not any different from how Zunesha's time-frame isn't clear enough. Therefore I believe we should use the anime to give us something to go off of. It'd be consistent with the size of Wyper's explosions on every other instance and it's better than making unreliable assumptions.
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The manga gives no timeframes while the anime does
The manga shows the sizes of the explosions, there's no reason to use the anime then
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- #51
No, the manga does not always provide clear sizes, as on a lot of panels we have nothing to go off of to determine certain things' sizes. Therefore we can go to the anime, in which I've provided a way to do just that with the explosion. And it ends up being consistent with everything else.
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Bro... What you think is clear and isn't clear doesn't matter... The information is still in the manga, you can't use the anime over the manga just because you view it as more consistent
It's still against the rules... The anime is secondary canon for a reason and on a case by case as well
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- #53
I don't "think" it's not clear, I am factually saying it isn't clear. If you think it's clear then provide me a clear-cut statement on how big these trees were. If the sizes of the trees near the explosions were clear we wouldn't be having this discussion to begin with. Your own sited rule said "If the manga isn't clear enough you can use the anime". I am not using the anime over the manga. I am using a 1-to-1 adaptation of a manga panel that gives us a clearer look and contradicts nothing.
It's not against the rules, it's literally supported by the rule you linked.
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The anime here shows the size of the explosion bigger than the manga explosion... You can't just use the anime on certain aspects to support your argument
We literally use the manga over the anime... This is factual
How is that even comparable...? The manga show the sizes of the trees... I don't need to find a statement and I don't need to use the anime
Rule is if the manga is clear enough... Which it it literally is
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- #55
That's not a contradiction, the anime shows the explosion reaching it's climax and going away ( Which wouldn't happen so fast with an explosive yield of 1.5 megatons btw, which is another inconsistency with the first calculation that calls for it to be removed. ). The manga does not show the explosion reaching it's final state. There is not necessarily a contradiction.
Showing the trees is not the same as giving us clear information about their sizes. I am waiting for you to provide clear information about how big they are.
The manga is not clear whatsoever. This entire comment is you repeating "It's clear, it's clear" without showing any argumentation behind it. Would you like to prove your claim on it being clear about the size of these trees?
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I'm not talking about it's final state... I'm talking about it's middle state being bigger
The manga is over the anime... The manga shows us shots of the trees. The manga needs to be clear enough... For the anime to not be used
What I said above...
If the manga wasn't clear enough then there wouldn't have been a way for tempest to calculate the trees even tho he did
If you're still going to ignore and twist what I'm saying, then I'm just not going to entertain this anymore... The anime is simply not used if the manga shows it, as you would then prioritize the anime showings over the manga
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- #57
Justify that. Show me the frame from the anime that correspods to the panel in the manga and why it's bigger. It's your burden to fulfill.
I'd also mention that the Zunesha calculation that was ACCEPTED by this wiki used an anime scene with much more severe changes from the manga than this. So your entire "In this frame they are not drawn 100% as big in the manga because in the anime it appears 5% bigger"-ish argument does not hold up. This is some Luffy level stretching. The wiki has accepted much less 1-to-1 adaptations. So yeah. Regardless your argument is moot.
Zunesha's Trunk (Alternative Method)
vsbattles.fandom.com
You are repeating yourself without adding anything new.
At this point this is going circular and discussing this with you is a waste of time.
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I've got a question. The first calc seems to include the smoke cloud as part of the fireball explosion. But tmk the formula for blast yields only takes the fireball size not fireball + smoke cloud?
Basically shouldn't we use the blue line (the actual orange and yellow fireball) over the red line (the black smoke)? Or are Wyper's explosions just black in general?
Basically shouldn't we use the blue line (the actual orange and yellow fireball) over the red line (the black smoke)? Or are Wyper's explosions just black in general?
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Your comparing sizes which is seen in the manga... The timeframe of zunisha is not shown/known in the manga. Not comparable.I'd also mention that the Zunesha calculation that was ACCEPTED by this wiki used an anime scene with much more severe changes from the manga than this. So your entire "In this frame they are not drawn 100% as big in the manga because in the anime it appears 5% bigger"-ish argument does not hold up. This is some Luffy level stretching. The wiki has accepted much less 1-to-1 adaptations. So yeah. Regardless your argument is moot.
Zunesha's Trunk (Alternative Method)
Explosion has a similar width to the upper part of the tree in front of it
the middle explosion that is similar width to around 3 trees
And the explosion happens way above the manga one
Simply not at all comparable in any way and something that's not needed for me to explicitly show you
Because your simply not understanding what I'm saying.
...
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Calc 1 is still fine to use imo, after seeing the arguments going on
Now no one ask me to comment on a HST thread again
Now no one ask me to comment on a HST thread again
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- #64
Same way the size of the trees isn't given in the manga. Flop
They look close enough, and I will argue the camera angle is at play. Still not a contradiction.
No, your argument is just awful. Lol.
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- #65
This is a valid point too. All the more reason the first calc needs to go.I've got a question. The first calc seems to include the smoke cloud as part of the fireball explosion. But tmk the formula for blast yields only takes the fireball size not fireball + smoke cloud?
Basically shouldn't we use the blue line (the actual orange and yellow fireball) over the red line (the black smoke)? Or are Wyper's explosions just black in general?
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- #66
Could you give me your reasoning for it?
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- #67
I've already addressed this. Even on Tempest's own calculation, we see trees ranging massively in size, with some being 100 meters less than others. This is accepted by this wiki, so to claim all trees should be similar size is objectively false. There are trees which are small, there are trees which are bigger. It's that simple.
I provided the reasons quite clearly. The fact that the 1-to-1 secondary canon scene goes against it, the fact that the consistent Wyper explosion sizes go against it, the fact that an explosion with a yield of 1.5 MT would not disappear so soon and only leave a bit of smoke, the fact that tempest's method is shown not working 2/2 other times.
Arc brought up a good point too which is that on top of everything tempest assumed the smoke was part of the fireball, when that's a seperate thing and shouldn't be counted. This alone tells us the first calculation isn't good even if you want to ignore everything I've brought up.
First calc is done as well, it isn't just the other 2. It relies on completely unreliable assumptions and more reliable methods go against it.
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Hellformer
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OP's arguments seem to be straightforward and clear enough
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Which is why KT used the average of the trees. Again, they should not be dissimilar in size to where we can't use an average of the size of several trees.
The anime argument is so laughably bad. Saying that because we see the cannon ball right before it exploded in the anime (when we didn't in the manga) means that the explosion isn't as big as the calc suggests is completely dependent on the assumption that animators' intent wasn't to just show where the cannon ball landed. Also, looking at it for a second time, the anime doesn't even show the cannon ball right before it exploded. We see it disappear due to getting too far away from the POV, meaning that whole argument is based on a false claim. Even if the ball didn't disappear, the fact that the anime showed a cannon ball (~250 m/s) travel for 7 seconds (1.75 kilometers) and yet still be visible is honestly enough to throw away the anime version and any arguments that it's "1-to-1" to the manga.
Some of Wyper's explosions being smaller does not discredit the larger ones at all. Clover already responded to this point so I'll keep my response short. Wyper is a Shandian who participates in Sky Battles (fights with weapons enhanced with dials). What this means is that he can likely generate larger and smaller explosions - shown when he... produced large and small explosions. "Consistency" of explosion size has never been a valid complaint so I don't know why it would be now.
Your last point is probably the worst argument used in this thread. The speed of which the smoke from an explosion disperses has never been indicative of its size and energy. Especially not in fictional works like One Piece. This is a given and I don't know why this has to be explained to you.
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Jokes aside, yes, it is, and always will be, the fireball that is used as well as what energy you'd need to leave a crater like that. Trying to say otherwise argues against the laws of physics themselves
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disagree fra
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I've got a question. The first calc seems to include the smoke cloud as part of the fireball explosion. But tmk the formula for blast yields only takes the fireball size not fireball + smoke cloud?
Basically shouldn't we use the blue line (the actual orange and yellow fireball) over the red line (the black smoke)? Or are Wyper's explosions just black in general?
Does anyone know the justification for using the diameter of the black circle over the blue one?A better illustration would be this:
KT's pixel scaling asserts the fireball of the explosion is as big as the black circle, whereas it appears that the fireball of the explosion is moreso encompassed by the blue circle.
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You are essentually saying "The anime animated the frames between the two panels and did the job of an anime therefore it's ususable", which is a ridiculous argument to make. By this logic we can never use the anime. And I've proven how the wiki accepts the anime for more clarification on way less 1-to-1 scenes. There is no contradiction between the anime scene and the manga. I also never said that the cannonball exploded while it was visible, so this is a strawman argument. If you actually read my argument you'd know said it exploded 4 seconds after disappearing. Your counter-argument is also laughable bad, as I made it clear I am reffering to 7 seconds of cinematic-time, which is not the same as 7 seconds of real-life time. How fast the ball is in real time doesn't matter. The point is that in cinematic time it took 3 seconds to travel a short distance, and accounting for the distance it must have travelled with the 4 extra seconds won't make it any better. Therefore through the anime's 1-to-1 scene we have a good method to determine the size.
It's not SOME explosions that are smaller, it's every single other explosion that is NOWHERE near the assumed size for that one calc. And the argument you made relies on headcanon. I would argue the explosion size differs slightly because of either art, perspective, or the monentum, all of which can SLIGHTLY affect it's explosion size. But I am yet to see a justification that it jumped all the way up to 1.7 kilometers. Oh, and the cannonballs are not dials. They are never said to work like one too. So this is irrelevant to them.
That's your own headcanon. I've already shown how multiple others trees are over a hundred meters below the average, and are quite small. Such as the ones from the other calculation. Therefore your opinion that they should not be much below the average is based on nothing. I've provided more reliable methods.
Hellformer
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Bro cooked.
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The kitchen is burning
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I agree. Please stop posting irrelevant comments people.
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if we trying to be that nitpicky, then we should use the trees width that line up to around the area where the explosion is at
Would be 1425.42666098 m
That tree is still in front of the explosion... So even the smaller trees at the back could be more accurate
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I think that Arc7Kuroi brings up a valid point here.A better illustration would be this:
KT's pixel scaling asserts the fireball of the explosion is as big as the black circle, whereas it appears that the fireball of the explosion is moreso encompassed by the blue circle.
The first calc should probably be re-calculated on this basis alone.
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