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Bleach - accepting Memories of Nobody as canon

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LordGinSama

LordGinSama

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The title is rather self explanatory, we should consider the movie canon, as Kubo was involved with the movie itself and even made the Novel for said movie as seen here. https://www.amazon.com/Bleach-Taito...1748/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1529893103&sr=8-1

It's also referenced in the Manga by Ichigo / here , nor does this contradict anything in the Manga itself.


There's a lot more evidence to post here but I'll let the others post them in the comments below.


And please for the love of God, let's keep this civil and please no throwing shade.
 
Yeah no. Disagreeing with this for, IIRC, Matt or someone made an incredibly large detailed point to point post on why the movie(s) aren't canon.

Just in case, I will message Matt myself to confirm if im right.
 
And I did? I already said Matt or someone made a very huge thread about this and why it was acceped as non-canon.

Unless im mistaken and there isn't a thread like that, thats all my reasoning is for now.
 
Wrath Of Itachi said:
Just wondering do these events fit into the bleach manga timeline?
Click to expand...
There's literally a sweet spot in the timeline where it could fit. It was after the start of the Arrancar Arc and Ichigo vs Grimmjow first round as Ichigo wasn't surprised about Rukia's Shinigami powers returning.

In the manga there is only one unknown time gap, the 1 month gap after the first invasion by Grimmjow and his Fracciones and before the second invasion that kidnapped Orihime.
 
The majority of people here haven't even heard of Matthew's argument. So yeah no, you didn't so I'll wait for the others to post their evidence.
 
It fits perfectly into the timeline as well because there was a 1 month time gap if I remember correctly and we have no idea what happened in that time.
 
It's written by Kubo himself and fits into the 1 month gap between The Arrancar arc. That being said I'm still waiting for the other users to pose all the evidence of it being canon.
 
It was overwhelmingly accepted not to be canon in that thread. You all can read about it if you want. There is no new evidence that could prove it being canon specially when it is impossible to happen.
 
vFirst, let me address the claim it is canon. Why exactly is it being considered? The post above rambles on and on but doesn't say much. There is exactly one panel worth of dialogue that can be used to argue the movie's canonicity.

Ichigo says that he went to the Valley of Screams before.

That's it.

At first this would make one think that the whole movie is canon, but it honestly isn't. This isn't the first time concepts from Non-Canon anime and movies are taken into primary canon. Just look at the Naruto Shippuden Blood Prison which appeared in the Boruto manga. Neat, right? Doesn't mean Movie 2 is canon. Same with stuff like Ms.Pizza and Gregory appearing in Super not making all of Kai / Toei anime canon. If Gogeta appears in Super that also won't make Fusion Reborn Canon (People would argue that Fusion Reborn would have to be canon for Vegeta to know the fusion dance, but he could have learned it at any point in the years since the end of the Buu Saga. Similarly, Ichigo could have visited the Valley of Screams off-screen at any other point).

The Fairy Tail Dragon Cry movie is also not canon despite having some references in canon media.

Also, Kubo used the movie as a reference image for one panel showing a window. That's it. That is definitely not enough for saying that the whole movie is canon.

Masami Kurumada outright participated in the writing of the Saint Seiya Eris OVA, and drew the designs for all the villains. That's far more participation than Kubo had with Memories of Nobody, but that doesn't make it canon.

Why? Because it simply doesn't fit the continuity. Which brings me to this:

When Rukia appeared in the Arrancar arc, Ichigo hadn't seen her since the Soul Society arc. Rukia showed off her Zanpakutō's powers in the movie, even though she first shows them off against Di Roy in the Arrancar arc. In the movie, Rukia is hanging out with Ichigo too, not even on a mission(she's not even tasked with Karakura Town anymore since Kurumadani took her place as noted in the Arrancar arc).

And there's also the fact that Ichigo was surprised her Shinigami powers came back in the Arrancar arc, even though in the movie, he wasn't.

Also two things about the interpretations of the movie's ending:

1. The explanation above seems to suggest that everyone lost their memories of the movie's events, but what was said is that they'd lose their memories of Senna, which can also mean they'd remember everything about the movie BUT her. The ending with Ichigo is also ambiguous, he just sees her passing and smiles. No confirmation is given about him remembering her or not. We are meant to draw our own conclusions as an audience.

So at this time, we don't know who if anyone actually remembers her.

2. The explanation is misquoting Urahara's explanation. What he says in the film is that the Valleys naturally occur in the Dangai, but essentially this one's getting too big, so it's encroaching on the human & spirit worlds. The explanation in the manga is different.

It can be reconciled by assuming that the Valley in the movie punched into the Dangai from the Garganta, which leads me to the point that you have to assume things would probably be slightly different if Kubo were writing. Not much, just a few small things here & there, like the fact that the Urahara kids shouldn't know Renji yet.

Finally, when exactly would the movie have taken place? It simply doesn't fit the manga timeline: After Ichigo fought Ulquirroa he fought Yami (briefly), then went straight to fight Aizen. Then he lost his powers. There's no possible timeskip in the manga to fit the movie in, specially with him being surprised of seeing Rukia again at all in the Arrancar arc.

In conclusion, Memories of Nobody being canon is iffy and controversial at best, and downright incorrect at worse.

There's also the fact that Memories of Nobody is a movie of the Bleach Anime, not the manga. And there are several differences in Bleach between the original canon manga and the animated adaptation, both minor and significant. It is not a movie that was advertised or meant to be a literal addition or continuation to the manga storyline, like Dragon Ball: Battle of Gods, or Naruto The Last.
 
It's canon. Even in chapter 627 Kubo states to use the movie as a reference for information on the valley. If the auther is telling you to use a movie as a reference for RELEVANT information, as well as references a character from the movie in the source manga material then we have no right to say it's NOT CANON when the AUTHOR HIMSELF acknowledges it.

Also the Senna feat would scale Bleach up from it. It number is actually quite high. I'll just say this...Google how many MEGATONS of tnt are need to move the Earth out of orbit. Once is this accepted I'm willing to post what I've found but I'm not a calc master. I simply Google of much force is needed and then converted it to joules. The number is ridiculously high. It. Would make bleach the strongest HST, like it is, and eclipse many other verses aside of the likes of toriko
 
I've read the thread and I disagree. You didn't mention how Kubo himself is the one who wrote the Novel and had heavy involvement in the Movie. It fits perfectly with the one month gap between the Arrancar Arc and it's referenced in the Manga and there's a raw scan that I'm waiting for someone to post here. But as I said, let's wait for the scans before we start arguing.
 
@Knight

So what if Kubo wrote it? That means absolutely nothing. The movie still doesn't fit the timeline and can't work. I already proven how it can't fit with the timeline because of how Ichigo reacts to Rukia.

Also source on Kubo writing it. I definitely don't trust an Amazon link of an untranslated book.
 
>When Rukia appeared in the Arrancar arc, Ichigo hadn't seen her since the Soul Society arc. Rukia showed off her Zanpakutō's powers in the movie, even though she first shows them off against Di Roy in the Arrancar arc. In the movie, Rukia is hanging out with Ichigo too, not even on a mission(she's not even tasked with Karakura Town anymore since Kurumadani took her place as noted in the Arrancar arc).

>And there's also the fact that Ichigo was surprised her Shinigami powers came back in the Arrancar arc, even though in the movie, he wasn't. >Finally, when exactly would the movie have taken place? It simply doesn't fit the manga timeline: After Ichigo fought Ulquirroa he fought Yami (briefly), then went straight to fight Aizen. Then he lost his powers. There's no possible timeskip in the manga to fit the movie in, specially with him being surprised of seeing Rukia again at all in the Arrancar arc.


The events of the movie could only take place in the 1 month time skip after Grimmjow's invasion where Ichigo already saw Rukia and her powers. So he shouldn't be surprised.
 
i literally posted the novel with involvement of kubo what more do you want matt? .. its even in the manga the novels the author rights are canon.. everyone knows this..
 
Except this is really not where the movie is supposed to take place. It does not fit with the powers and development that the characters display. All you're doing is trying to find a place for it to fit. It's your headcanon.
 
I personally think Knight makes sense.

I also think our rules for written by author movies/light novels to be rather strict.

This is not just a bleach problem, but also a One Piece and SCP problem.

Like, even if you denied it for it being not 'canon', you can probably also argue that you can still count them via a composite key/extended canon key.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Except this is really not where the movie is supposed to take place. It does not fit with the powers and development that the characters display. All you're doing is trying to find a place for it to fit. It's your headcanon.
Click to expand...
There were no powers nor developments at that time. The whole point of the timeskip was for characters to train and get power-ups to fight the Espada. The new powers and developments come after the time-skip and this movie could only take place during it.
 
It is non-canon. It doesn't fit anywhere in the timeline, certainly nowhere at the time it was released. The manga directly contradicts it. Nowhere has there been a statement saying it's canon. A concept from the movie being referenced later doesn't make it canon.

Bring an argument that isn't incredulity.
 
this is why i think its canon 1-author involvement (mostly all the proof you need) 2-mentions in MANGA 3- the novels created by the creator are canon am i wrong?
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
There were no powers nor developments at that time. The whole point of the timeskip was for characters to train and get power-ups to fight the Espada. The new powers and developments come after the time-skip and this movie could only take place during it.
Click to expand...
Your argument would mean anything if you had proof it's set there.
 
Except it literally fits in the timeline, there's a time gap that it perfectly fits in. A point after Ichigo already met Rukia and seen her new powers and a point before all the new power-ups from the Arrancar Arc training.

It fits in the timeline, I don't understand how you think it doesn't.
 
Zezu1995 said:
this is why i think its canon
1-author involvement (mostly all the proof you need) 2-mentions in MANGA 3- the novels created by the creator are canon am i wrong?
Click to expand...
1. Evidence that Kubo was involved in the movie or manga besides your word or an Amazon page.

2. One mention I already addressed.

3. Only the new novels Kubo himself started writing after the manga was over and he said would be the continuations.
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
Except it literally fits in the timeline, there's a time gap that it perfectly fits in. A point after Ichigo already met Rukia and seen her new powers and a point before all the new power-ups from the Arrancar Arc training.
It fits in the timeline, I don't understand how you think it doesn't.
Click to expand...
This is just your headcanon, nice.

Absolutely nothing of the Arrancars is even referenced in this movie, it's like they're not even a thing. It has to be set before that arc begins.
 
"Except it literally fits in the timeline, there's a time gap that it perfectly fits in."

You could make some of this argument with the Dragon Ball movies you know, and those aren't considered.
 
@Zezu

I guess this means all DBZ games are canon because they credit Toriyama as the original author. Of course his name will be there. And this is just an untranslated novelization of the non-canon movie.
 
Until there is:

An official statement saying it is Canon it won't be considered. A concept from the movie being referenced in the manga doesn't make it canon. There being a place where it could fit doesn't make it canon either.

This isn't even up for debate. All that's being asked here is that Bleach be given special treatment.
 
Arrancars not being mentioned don't disregard it. There was another issue at hand that replaced that.


And nothing about that is headcanon, there's a one month time skip. Before the time-skip Ichigo already saw Rukia and after it were all the power-ups which is the only spot the movie fits in and that the manga doesn't describe/go over.

Claiming headcanon isn't going to remove it.
 
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