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black bulls, VS seven tealy sins (nanatsuno taisai)
- Thread starter HAKKAIDER
- Start date
- 2,616
- 166
Remember all the lil abilities the Sins have makes me wish they were used more effectively. It seems like speed is equalized so the blitz thing won't work anymore Imo it's fairer when it's speed not equalized
Also doubtful at Absolute Cancel working on power of fate itself but Escanor makes this easy anyway.
Also doubtful at Absolute Cancel working on power of fate itself but Escanor makes this easy anyway.
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@MindControl116
This is my feats argument, you can tell me what you disagree with and what I should change but could you also explain to me how I present my argument to the admins to change the profiles of the characters.
This is going to be long. First of all I want to say that it is pretty hard to use feats of planet and moon level in NNT because they haven't shown anyone destroying anything of that level even though its possible for certain characters to achieve these feats. First of all no one in NNT has gone to other planets or stars, and for the sake of the plot you can't destroy the ******* planet, cause then the story would be over.... But even though it is difficult I still have FACTS not OPINIONS to prove that certain characters from NNT are moon or planet level.
First I will explain why the power levels for some of Seven Deadly Sins need to be changed from country level to at least moon level or even planetary level. But I will mostly focus on Escanor.
First Escanor the One "in his prime" has NEVER lost. In the past Meliodas and Escanor had a match where Escanor lost heavily. Which is why I said Escanor the One "in his prime", because the Escanor that lost to Meliodas was not in his prime and I will explain why.
1. Escanor was upset about the death of Rosa and wanted someone to tell him his life was important. Therefore Escanor didn't really want to fight.(He would've lost anyways)(Chapter 327 of the Manga)
2. This is the most important reason. When Meliodas and Escanor fought in the past, Escanor didn't know how to use his power properly and was just beserking wildly. After losing to Meliodas MULTIPLE times, Escanor learned to control his power properly and master it, till he eventually became more powerful than Meliodas.(Chapter 328 of the Manga)
Also some believe that Escanor lost to the Original Demon as "The One" and that he had trouble dealing with Zeldris who had a power level of 221,000.
1. Escanor was having trouble fighting Zeldris until he became "The One". Once he became the one he defeated Zeldris in 4 MOVES.(Manga Chapter 289)
In the Manga, The Original Demon mocks Escanor for being unable to defeat him even though it is High Noon. This is an obvious translation error for 4 reasons.(Chapter 294 of the Manga).
1. At the end of chapter 289, Escanor loses his ability "The One", because the battlefield is covered in darkness by the demons.
2. In chapter 290 and 292, Merlin tells Escanor to grab his axe Rhitta so he can release the stored power of the sun. In chapter 292, when Escanor picks up his axe he returns to his normal dawn form of 50,000 power. This form is the same form Escanor used to injure Gloxinia and Drole who are 2 of the 10 commandments.
3. Besides The original demons line about Escanor being in the One Form, there is nothing else that says that he is in The One form, which in every chapter that has The One in it, there are lines written around Escanor about him being The One and being The most vainglorious existence.... blah blah blah
4. And last but not least by the time Escanor defeated Zeldris, had his power undone, got his axe, and the original demon transformed, its impossible that it is still noon. I also am almost positive that he is in his dawn form by relying on his axes stored power. Also there is no visible change on Escanor from when he gets his power from the axe and when he is fighting the original demon.
Next I will talk about why I think some of the Seven Deadly sins are more powerful than most believe.And how powerful Escanor really is. Using feats only. First feats are speed.
1. Zeldris is able to use FTL attacks, and always has been. Some believe that he became faster when the demon king gave him power, but in reality the demons power is the ability to withstand all magical abilities and Ominous Nebula is Zeldris's own technique therefore he was alway able to use FTL attacks. In the manga there is a fan translation is says Zeldris is FTL which you cant use as a feat because its fan translated, but the real translation is just as proving that Zeldris is FTL. In the real translation Ludociel says he is faster than my grace, and his grace is the ability to move at lightspeed therefore he is faster than lightspeed.
2. Assault Mode Meliodas can use a technique called 1000 Divine Slayer where he cuts his opponent 1000 times in an instant. This is most likely FTL. Also Assault Mode Meliodas 3,000 years ago defeated Zeldris many times and Zeldris is and always was FTL. Zeldris is scared of his brothers power. Therefore it reinforces the statement that Assault mode Meliodas is FTL.
3. In the fight between Escanor and Estarossa, Escanor is able to slash Estarossa with an extremely heavy axe without it being visible. This is FTL.
So Ban, Meliodas, Escanor are all FTL because they are all faster than Zeldris, and Demon King Meliodas that fought ban had the body of Meliodas who I just proved is FTL therefore he is also FTL. Meliodas defeated Zeldris in the past and is stronger than Demon King so he is FTL. Escanor defeated FTL Zeldris in 4 moves therefore he is FTL.
If you have ever used vs battles wiki, the official way to know if someone can destroy a planet or moon level threat, is if a character has CREATED or destroyed a planet or moon. And then if someone defeats the person that created or destroyed a planet they can therefore destroy a planet also. Which brings me to my next feat. Feats of power.
1. The Demon King created the REALM of demons. In Norse mythology a realm is another world. In NNT the demon realm is not given a size, but it is big enough to hold an entire race of demons, including extremely large demons such as Induras and red and gray demons. A realm is at least the size of an EXTREMELY ******* LARGE moon or more likely the size of a planet. The demon king has full control over the Demon Realm and can destroy the realm if he wants. Therefore he can destroy and create a planet sized area, therefore he is planet destroying level.
In chapter 312 of the manga, the Demon King says that once the power of Zeldris's body is completely under his control he will be able to regain his original power as the demon king.
Demon King got his Original Power and Escanor fought evenly against the Demon King in the One mode, therefore Escanor in the ONE mode has the power to destroy a REALM sized existence which is probably planet level. Escanor the One Ultimate was more powerful than the Demon King therfore he is higher than Planet Level. Meliodas has more power than the demon king, it is stated in the manga, therefore he is higher than planet level. Ban fought against Demon King Meliodas, who is not as powerful as the Demon King but has half of the power of the demon king and the full power of Meliodas bfore he transforms. This is not planet level but atleast moon level. Ban fought evenly against him therefore he is moon level. I think King should be moon level like Ban because the Original Demon has a power of 334,000 or so which is similiar or higher than half of the Demon King's power. This is not as backed up by feats so you can agree or disagree with this.
If these feats are accepted then what I said above is true I beleive.
Meliodas and Escanor are higher than planet level and have FTL speed.
Ban and King have moon level power or small planet level and Ban has FTL speed.
Merlin has Lightspeed teleportation.
This is my feats argument, you can tell me what you disagree with and what I should change but could you also explain to me how I present my argument to the admins to change the profiles of the characters.
This is going to be long. First of all I want to say that it is pretty hard to use feats of planet and moon level in NNT because they haven't shown anyone destroying anything of that level even though its possible for certain characters to achieve these feats. First of all no one in NNT has gone to other planets or stars, and for the sake of the plot you can't destroy the ******* planet, cause then the story would be over.... But even though it is difficult I still have FACTS not OPINIONS to prove that certain characters from NNT are moon or planet level.
First I will explain why the power levels for some of Seven Deadly Sins need to be changed from country level to at least moon level or even planetary level. But I will mostly focus on Escanor.
First Escanor the One "in his prime" has NEVER lost. In the past Meliodas and Escanor had a match where Escanor lost heavily. Which is why I said Escanor the One "in his prime", because the Escanor that lost to Meliodas was not in his prime and I will explain why.
1. Escanor was upset about the death of Rosa and wanted someone to tell him his life was important. Therefore Escanor didn't really want to fight.(He would've lost anyways)(Chapter 327 of the Manga)
2. This is the most important reason. When Meliodas and Escanor fought in the past, Escanor didn't know how to use his power properly and was just beserking wildly. After losing to Meliodas MULTIPLE times, Escanor learned to control his power properly and master it, till he eventually became more powerful than Meliodas.(Chapter 328 of the Manga)
Also some believe that Escanor lost to the Original Demon as "The One" and that he had trouble dealing with Zeldris who had a power level of 221,000.
1. Escanor was having trouble fighting Zeldris until he became "The One". Once he became the one he defeated Zeldris in 4 MOVES.(Manga Chapter 289)
In the Manga, The Original Demon mocks Escanor for being unable to defeat him even though it is High Noon. This is an obvious translation error for 4 reasons.(Chapter 294 of the Manga).
1. At the end of chapter 289, Escanor loses his ability "The One", because the battlefield is covered in darkness by the demons.
2. In chapter 290 and 292, Merlin tells Escanor to grab his axe Rhitta so he can release the stored power of the sun. In chapter 292, when Escanor picks up his axe he returns to his normal dawn form of 50,000 power. This form is the same form Escanor used to injure Gloxinia and Drole who are 2 of the 10 commandments.
3. Besides The original demons line about Escanor being in the One Form, there is nothing else that says that he is in The One form, which in every chapter that has The One in it, there are lines written around Escanor about him being The One and being The most vainglorious existence.... blah blah blah
4. And last but not least by the time Escanor defeated Zeldris, had his power undone, got his axe, and the original demon transformed, its impossible that it is still noon. I also am almost positive that he is in his dawn form by relying on his axes stored power. Also there is no visible change on Escanor from when he gets his power from the axe and when he is fighting the original demon.
Next I will talk about why I think some of the Seven Deadly sins are more powerful than most believe.And how powerful Escanor really is. Using feats only. First feats are speed.
1. Zeldris is able to use FTL attacks, and always has been. Some believe that he became faster when the demon king gave him power, but in reality the demons power is the ability to withstand all magical abilities and Ominous Nebula is Zeldris's own technique therefore he was alway able to use FTL attacks. In the manga there is a fan translation is says Zeldris is FTL which you cant use as a feat because its fan translated, but the real translation is just as proving that Zeldris is FTL. In the real translation Ludociel says he is faster than my grace, and his grace is the ability to move at lightspeed therefore he is faster than lightspeed.
2. Assault Mode Meliodas can use a technique called 1000 Divine Slayer where he cuts his opponent 1000 times in an instant. This is most likely FTL. Also Assault Mode Meliodas 3,000 years ago defeated Zeldris many times and Zeldris is and always was FTL. Zeldris is scared of his brothers power. Therefore it reinforces the statement that Assault mode Meliodas is FTL.
3. In the fight between Escanor and Estarossa, Escanor is able to slash Estarossa with an extremely heavy axe without it being visible. This is FTL.
So Ban, Meliodas, Escanor are all FTL because they are all faster than Zeldris, and Demon King Meliodas that fought ban had the body of Meliodas who I just proved is FTL therefore he is also FTL. Meliodas defeated Zeldris in the past and is stronger than Demon King so he is FTL. Escanor defeated FTL Zeldris in 4 moves therefore he is FTL.
If you have ever used vs battles wiki, the official way to know if someone can destroy a planet or moon level threat, is if a character has CREATED or destroyed a planet or moon. And then if someone defeats the person that created or destroyed a planet they can therefore destroy a planet also. Which brings me to my next feat. Feats of power.
1. The Demon King created the REALM of demons. In Norse mythology a realm is another world. In NNT the demon realm is not given a size, but it is big enough to hold an entire race of demons, including extremely large demons such as Induras and red and gray demons. A realm is at least the size of an EXTREMELY ******* LARGE moon or more likely the size of a planet. The demon king has full control over the Demon Realm and can destroy the realm if he wants. Therefore he can destroy and create a planet sized area, therefore he is planet destroying level.
In chapter 312 of the manga, the Demon King says that once the power of Zeldris's body is completely under his control he will be able to regain his original power as the demon king.
Demon King got his Original Power and Escanor fought evenly against the Demon King in the One mode, therefore Escanor in the ONE mode has the power to destroy a REALM sized existence which is probably planet level. Escanor the One Ultimate was more powerful than the Demon King therfore he is higher than Planet Level. Meliodas has more power than the demon king, it is stated in the manga, therefore he is higher than planet level. Ban fought against Demon King Meliodas, who is not as powerful as the Demon King but has half of the power of the demon king and the full power of Meliodas bfore he transforms. This is not planet level but atleast moon level. Ban fought evenly against him therefore he is moon level. I think King should be moon level like Ban because the Original Demon has a power of 334,000 or so which is similiar or higher than half of the Demon King's power. This is not as backed up by feats so you can agree or disagree with this.
If these feats are accepted then what I said above is true I beleive.
Meliodas and Escanor are higher than planet level and have FTL speed.
Ban and King have moon level power or small planet level and Ban has FTL speed.
Merlin has Lightspeed teleportation.
Epsilon_R
He/Him- 6,415
- 1,338
Sorry but we go by the profiles' ratings. Even if what you said was correct (which isn't the case but your post is far too long to debunk it. And the lightspeed statement was only in the fan translations, not the official ones), we won't use those ratings unless they are accepted in a Content Revision Thread
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You cant debunk that Meliodas and Escanor are faster than lightspeed and have more than the power to destroy a realm, I proved with feats and I even talked about the fan translation thing with Zeldris. You can disagree with how much attack power is needed to destroy a Realm.
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I know you cant use my feats im asking what you agree and disagree with, and you cant do an actual debate of Black Bulls vs NNT because NNT power levels haven't been changed since a long ass time ago. None of the profiles have the power of the NNT now. So you would have to change this debate to Black Bulls vs Seven Deadly Sins forms we know the power of.
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I have a question: someone before said we are taking the most powerful versions of each character. Meliodas's most powerful form was obviously when he had power equal if not greater to that of the demon king. At that time, did he have the Ten Commandments inside him, and could he control them?
- 2,616
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>Planet level
Excuse me?
Excuse me?
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But how is *anyone* from BC hurting anyone relevant from team NNT. Vanessa's ability is magic which can be negated with a single spell
It cannot be negated, we have explained this. Unless any of the NNT have resistance to fate manipulation, which none of them do, they cannot negate it. Also, Asta can attack NNT easily, because NNT do not have attacks that negate anti-magic, which is not magic. But this is irrelevant. My argument never was "the Black Bulls win." My argument always was "the Black Bulls cannot lose," which, while not guaranteeing victory, guarantees a stalemate.
He really doesn't. He's talking about some multiplication but multiplying Yami's AP (as he mentioned) by 100 would still be below Mel or Escanor. And he keeps talking like Mel is the most dangerous out of the whole squad, and all his arguments are against Mel's trillion dark which is fodder here.
Wow. You can't provide logical arguments, so you decide to go ahead and put words in my mouth and make false claims, huh?
1. I never made any statements about AP.
2. Yes, I was talking specifically about Trillion Dark because the person who responded to me specifically asked for a counterargument as to why Trillion Dark could not do anything against the Black Bulls. But sure, go ahead and take my comment out of context. It's not like this is dishonest or anything /sarcasm.
3. Mel is the strongest of NNT. No doubt about that.
And team NNT has abilities to nullify/reflect/seal or tank and regenerate like it's nothing from Yami's dimensional slash (Yami's slash doesn't negate Regenerationn) and Asta's swords can be teleported out of his hands to the bottom of an ocean or simply sealed.
1. They may be able to nullify or reflect the spell, assuming they were fast enough to do so, but there is 0 evidence that they can regenerate from it.
2. Teleportation is not going to work on Asta's swords because they are immune to magic, and therefore, immune to Merlin's teleportation. As for sealing them away, Nero has Sealing Magic, she can simply unseal them. We've seen here do more impressive things than unsealing a pair of swords.
YOU kept explaining the counters BC has against NNT while NNT has the same counters.
This is the most absurd claim I've heard in this entire thread. No, of course they don't have the same counters. None of the NNT have fate manipulation. None of NNT have anti-magic, which is itself not magic. No one in NNT can cut through spatial dimensions. Yes, they do have things like Absolute Cancel, but that is the only relevant counter they have in this entire battle. Arguably, Counter Vanish too, but these things don't work against physical attacks.
Ban's hunter fest would render all of them unconscious because that's what happens when you're out of strength.
Until you present any explicit feats from the manga that demonstrate this, you are incorrect.
Or he can simply snatch everyone's hearts (both of these abilities can't be negated since no physical form or dodged by red string of fate cuz again, they don't have a physical form.
You are wrong. The functioning of Red Thread of Fate is not determined by whether an attack has physical form or not. We have seen Red Thread of Fate protect from non-corporeal attacks before. The Red Thread of Fate operates on whether a particular action causes harm or danger to a member of the Black Bulls or not.
It cannot be negated, we have explained this. Unless any of the NNT have resistance to fate manipulation, which none of them do, they cannot negate it. Also, Asta can attack NNT easily, because NNT do not have attacks that negate anti-magic, which is not magic. But this is irrelevant. My argument never was "the Black Bulls win." My argument always was "the Black Bulls cannot lose," which, while not guaranteeing victory, guarantees a stalemate.
He really doesn't. He's talking about some multiplication but multiplying Yami's AP (as he mentioned) by 100 would still be below Mel or Escanor. And he keeps talking like Mel is the most dangerous out of the whole squad, and all his arguments are against Mel's trillion dark which is fodder here.
Wow. You can't provide logical arguments, so you decide to go ahead and put words in my mouth and make false claims, huh?
1. I never made any statements about AP.
2. Yes, I was talking specifically about Trillion Dark because the person who responded to me specifically asked for a counterargument as to why Trillion Dark could not do anything against the Black Bulls. But sure, go ahead and take my comment out of context. It's not like this is dishonest or anything /sarcasm.
3. Mel is the strongest of NNT. No doubt about that.
And team NNT has abilities to nullify/reflect/seal or tank and regenerate like it's nothing from Yami's dimensional slash (Yami's slash doesn't negate Regenerationn) and Asta's swords can be teleported out of his hands to the bottom of an ocean or simply sealed.
1. They may be able to nullify or reflect the spell, assuming they were fast enough to do so, but there is 0 evidence that they can regenerate from it.
2. Teleportation is not going to work on Asta's swords because they are immune to magic, and therefore, immune to Merlin's teleportation. As for sealing them away, Nero has Sealing Magic, she can simply unseal them. We've seen here do more impressive things than unsealing a pair of swords.
YOU kept explaining the counters BC has against NNT while NNT has the same counters.
This is the most absurd claim I've heard in this entire thread. No, of course they don't have the same counters. None of the NNT have fate manipulation. None of NNT have anti-magic, which is itself not magic. No one in NNT can cut through spatial dimensions. Yes, they do have things like Absolute Cancel, but that is the only relevant counter they have in this entire battle. Arguably, Counter Vanish too, but these things don't work against physical attacks.
Ban's hunter fest would render all of them unconscious because that's what happens when you're out of strength.
Until you present any explicit feats from the manga that demonstrate this, you are incorrect.
Or he can simply snatch everyone's hearts (both of these abilities can't be negated since no physical form or dodged by red string of fate cuz again, they don't have a physical form.
You are wrong. The functioning of Red Thread of Fate is not determined by whether an attack has physical form or not. We have seen Red Thread of Fate protect from non-corporeal attacks before. The Red Thread of Fate operates on whether a particular action causes harm or danger to a member of the Black Bulls or not.
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Also doubtful at Absolute Cancel working on power of fate itself but Escanor makes this easy anyway.
What are you talking about? Escanor does not have fate manipulation negation or resistance to fate manipulation.
What are you talking about? Escanor does not have fate manipulation negation or resistance to fate manipulation.
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This is going to be long. First of all I want to say that it is pretty hard to use feats of planet and moon level in NNT because they haven't shown anyone destroying anything of that level even though its possible for certain characters to achieve these feats. First of all no one in NNT has gone to other planets or stars, and for the sake of the plot you can't destroy the ******* planet, cause then the story would be over.... But even though it is difficult I still have FACTS not OPINIONS to prove that certain characters from NNT are moon or planet level.
You don't need to destroy a planet to be planet level. This is explained in the Tiering System Explanation Page. You only need to be able to output as much as energy as is necessary within a single attack to destroy a planet, restore a planet, or affect a planet on fundamental scale. Or, alternatively, if you defeat an opponent who is planet level, then you are at least planet level, provided that it is consistent with the rest of the story and is not an outlier.
First Escanor the One "in his prime" has NEVER lost. In the past Meliodas and Escanor had a match where Escanor lost heavily. Which is why I said Escanor the One "in his prime", because the Escanor that lost to Meliodas was not in his prime and I will explain why.
Okay, cool. Vanessa has never lost either in Black Clover (well, not yet, but the fight against Dante has been left unconcluded. We don't know if the Black Bulls lost or not, but you could argue that they did, you could also argue that they didn't. It's a difficult assessment). Not losing doesn't make you planet level. And just because you have never lost a fight within your own verse does not mean you can't lose in the VS Batlles wiki. That's a no limits fallacy. Saitama has never lost a fight. That doesn't make him tier 0, and it doesn't mean that the Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann wouldn't destroy him.
This is the most important reason. When Meliodas and Escanor fought in the past, Escanor didn't know how to use his power properly and was just beserking wildly. After losing to Meliodas MULTIPLE times, Escanor learned to control his power properly and master it, till he eventually became more powerful than Meliodas.(Chapter 328 of the Manga)
Okay, I follow. Still doesn't prove anything, but I'm listening to see where this leads.
Escanor was having trouble fighting Zeldris until he became "The One". Once he became the one he defeated Zeldris in 4 MOVES.(Manga Chapter 289)
Okay, cool. Is Zeldris planet level? No. With his Ominous Nebula, he is 6-B, which is country level. Moving on.
In chapter 290 and 292, Merlin tells Escanor to grab his axe Rhitta so he can release the stored power of the sun. In chapter 292, when Escanor picks up his axe he returns to his normal dawn form of 50,000 power. This form is the same form Escanor used to injure Gloxinia and Drole who are 2 of the 10 commandments.
Power levels aren't meaningful in the context of the VS Battles wiki, they don't tell you anything about what level the characters are. Besides, the power levels in NNT are not very consistent anyway.
Besides The original demons line about Escanor being in the One Form, there is nothing else that says that he is in The One form, which in every chapter that has The One in it, there are lines written around Escanor about him being The One and being The most vainglorious existence.... blah blah blah
Escanor being The Most Vanglorious Existence in Heaven And Earth doesn't prove he is planet level. In fact, it doesn't give you any measure of what level he is at, because the name is just that: a name, a vague description. In a vacuum, it could mean anything. It could mean he is tier 11, and just the most powerful being of his own verse, or it could mean he is tier 0. It's impossible to determine his level without using feats and context. And the feats and context suggest he is most definitely not planet level.
And last but not least by the time Escanor defeated Zeldris, had his power undone, got his axe, and the original demon transformed, its impossible that it is still noon. I also am almost positive that he is in his dawn form by relying on his axes stored power. Also there is no visible change on Escanor from when he gets his power from the axe and when he is fighting the original demon.
That's a quickness of battle feat, not an attack potency feat. As impressive as you want to make it seem, it doesn't make him planet level, because, well, it's not an attack potency feat.
Zeldris is able to use FTL attacks, and always has been. Some believe that he became faster when the demon king gave him power, but in reality the demons power is the ability to withstand all magical abilities and Ominous Nebula is Zeldris's own technique therefore he was alway able to use FTL attacks. In the manga there is a fan translation is says Zeldris is FTL which you cant use as a feat because its fan translated, but the real translation is just as proving that Zeldris is FTL. In the real translation Ludociel says he is faster than my grace, and his grace is the ability to move at lightspeed therefore he is faster than lightspeed.
Can you tell me in which chapter and which page is it stated that his grace allows him to move at lightspeed? Because I have read the manga, and I do not remember seeing this. So, unless you provide me with the source and/or an exact quote, I'm going to have to call bull-s on this one.
Assault Mode Meliodas can use a technique called 1000 Divine Slayer where he cuts his opponent 1000 times in an instant. This is most likely FTL. Also Assault Mode Meliodas 3,000 years ago defeated Zeldris many times and Zeldris is and always was FTL. Zeldris is scared of his brothers power. Therefore it reinforces the statement that Assault mode Meliodas is FTL.
You cannot claim that Ludoshel can move at lightspeed in combat until you prove it with a source, and if you cannot prove this, then you cannot prove Zeldris is faster than light, and therefore, it means you also cannot claim Meliodas is faster than light.
In the fight between Escanor and Estarossa, Escanor is able to slash Estarossa with an extremely heavy axe without it being visible. This is FTL.
No, it is not. Faster than the eye can see is not faster than light. Faster than the eye can see is subsonic at minimum. This is stated in the Speed page.
So Ban, Meliodas, Escanor are all FTL because they are all faster than Zeldris, and Demon King Meliodas that fought ban had the body of Meliodas who I just proved is FTL therefore he is also FTL. Meliodas defeated Zeldris in the past and is stronger than Demon King so he is FTL. Escanor defeated FTL Zeldris in 4 moves therefore he is FTL.
Your deduction is valid, but it assumes a premise which has not been proven yet: that Ludoshel can move at light speed, which is not stated in the wiki. If you cannot prove this assumption, then the rest of your argument is flushed down the toilet.
The Demon King created the REALM of demons.
Realm =/= Planet Realm =/= Moon
This feat isn't meaningful without more context and more specific details.
In Norse mythology a realm is another world.
Another World =/= Planet Another World =/= Moon
Another world can range from "city" to "multiverse" and anything in between.
Also, is NNT the same thing as Norse mythology or based on Norse mythology? No. Okay, moving on.
In NNT the demon realm is not given a size, but it is big enough to hold an entire race of demons, including extremely large demons such as Induras and red and gray demons. A realm is at least the size of an EXTREMELY ******* LARGE moon or more likely the size of a planet.
No, sir, this is false. There are approximately 7.8*10^9 humans on planet Earth. You can fit all those humans inside the physical territory spanned by the city of Los Angeles, California. So, this is not at all an impressive feat, size wise. This is a large country level feat AT BEST.
In chapter 312 of the manga, the Demon King says that once the power of Zeldris's body is completely under his control he will be able to regain his original power as the demon king. Demon King got his Original Power and Escanor fought evenly against the Demon King in the One mode, therefore Escanor in the ONE mode has the power to destroy a REALM sized existence which is probably planet level. Escanor the One Ultimate was more powerful than the Demon King therfore he is higher than Planet Level. Meliodas has more power than the demon king, it is stated in the manga, therefore he is higher than planet level. Ban fought against Demon King Meliodas, who is not as powerful as the Demon King but has half of the power of the demon king and the full power of Meliodas bfore he transforms. This is not planet level but atleast moon level. Ban fought evenly against him therefore he is moon level. I think King should be moon level like Ban because the Original Demon has a power of 334,000 or so which is similiar or higher than half of the Demon King's power. This is not as backed up by feats so you can agree or disagree with this.
Your deductions are once again valid, but they bounce off a false premise, which makes your conclusion not true. As I said, creating a realm is not necessarily a planet level feat, and a feat of the same caliber as the Demon King's is large country level at best, which oddly enough, is consistent with the High 6-B ranking that Meliodas has in his profile.
I really appreciate that you took your time to eloquently state your arguments and that you didn't just go off mindlessly repeating stuff that the others have said that we have already addressed 15+ times. I tip my hat off to you. But, with all that said, I honestly don't think you have successfully proven that NNT are FTL or planet level, due to the counterarguments I have presented above.
You don't need to destroy a planet to be planet level. This is explained in the Tiering System Explanation Page. You only need to be able to output as much as energy as is necessary within a single attack to destroy a planet, restore a planet, or affect a planet on fundamental scale. Or, alternatively, if you defeat an opponent who is planet level, then you are at least planet level, provided that it is consistent with the rest of the story and is not an outlier.
First Escanor the One "in his prime" has NEVER lost. In the past Meliodas and Escanor had a match where Escanor lost heavily. Which is why I said Escanor the One "in his prime", because the Escanor that lost to Meliodas was not in his prime and I will explain why.
Okay, cool. Vanessa has never lost either in Black Clover (well, not yet, but the fight against Dante has been left unconcluded. We don't know if the Black Bulls lost or not, but you could argue that they did, you could also argue that they didn't. It's a difficult assessment). Not losing doesn't make you planet level. And just because you have never lost a fight within your own verse does not mean you can't lose in the VS Batlles wiki. That's a no limits fallacy. Saitama has never lost a fight. That doesn't make him tier 0, and it doesn't mean that the Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann wouldn't destroy him.
This is the most important reason. When Meliodas and Escanor fought in the past, Escanor didn't know how to use his power properly and was just beserking wildly. After losing to Meliodas MULTIPLE times, Escanor learned to control his power properly and master it, till he eventually became more powerful than Meliodas.(Chapter 328 of the Manga)
Okay, I follow. Still doesn't prove anything, but I'm listening to see where this leads.
Escanor was having trouble fighting Zeldris until he became "The One". Once he became the one he defeated Zeldris in 4 MOVES.(Manga Chapter 289)
Okay, cool. Is Zeldris planet level? No. With his Ominous Nebula, he is 6-B, which is country level. Moving on.
In chapter 290 and 292, Merlin tells Escanor to grab his axe Rhitta so he can release the stored power of the sun. In chapter 292, when Escanor picks up his axe he returns to his normal dawn form of 50,000 power. This form is the same form Escanor used to injure Gloxinia and Drole who are 2 of the 10 commandments.
Power levels aren't meaningful in the context of the VS Battles wiki, they don't tell you anything about what level the characters are. Besides, the power levels in NNT are not very consistent anyway.
Besides The original demons line about Escanor being in the One Form, there is nothing else that says that he is in The One form, which in every chapter that has The One in it, there are lines written around Escanor about him being The One and being The most vainglorious existence.... blah blah blah
Escanor being The Most Vanglorious Existence in Heaven And Earth doesn't prove he is planet level. In fact, it doesn't give you any measure of what level he is at, because the name is just that: a name, a vague description. In a vacuum, it could mean anything. It could mean he is tier 11, and just the most powerful being of his own verse, or it could mean he is tier 0. It's impossible to determine his level without using feats and context. And the feats and context suggest he is most definitely not planet level.
And last but not least by the time Escanor defeated Zeldris, had his power undone, got his axe, and the original demon transformed, its impossible that it is still noon. I also am almost positive that he is in his dawn form by relying on his axes stored power. Also there is no visible change on Escanor from when he gets his power from the axe and when he is fighting the original demon.
That's a quickness of battle feat, not an attack potency feat. As impressive as you want to make it seem, it doesn't make him planet level, because, well, it's not an attack potency feat.
Zeldris is able to use FTL attacks, and always has been. Some believe that he became faster when the demon king gave him power, but in reality the demons power is the ability to withstand all magical abilities and Ominous Nebula is Zeldris's own technique therefore he was alway able to use FTL attacks. In the manga there is a fan translation is says Zeldris is FTL which you cant use as a feat because its fan translated, but the real translation is just as proving that Zeldris is FTL. In the real translation Ludociel says he is faster than my grace, and his grace is the ability to move at lightspeed therefore he is faster than lightspeed.
Can you tell me in which chapter and which page is it stated that his grace allows him to move at lightspeed? Because I have read the manga, and I do not remember seeing this. So, unless you provide me with the source and/or an exact quote, I'm going to have to call bull-s on this one.
Assault Mode Meliodas can use a technique called 1000 Divine Slayer where he cuts his opponent 1000 times in an instant. This is most likely FTL. Also Assault Mode Meliodas 3,000 years ago defeated Zeldris many times and Zeldris is and always was FTL. Zeldris is scared of his brothers power. Therefore it reinforces the statement that Assault mode Meliodas is FTL.
You cannot claim that Ludoshel can move at lightspeed in combat until you prove it with a source, and if you cannot prove this, then you cannot prove Zeldris is faster than light, and therefore, it means you also cannot claim Meliodas is faster than light.
In the fight between Escanor and Estarossa, Escanor is able to slash Estarossa with an extremely heavy axe without it being visible. This is FTL.
No, it is not. Faster than the eye can see is not faster than light. Faster than the eye can see is subsonic at minimum. This is stated in the Speed page.
So Ban, Meliodas, Escanor are all FTL because they are all faster than Zeldris, and Demon King Meliodas that fought ban had the body of Meliodas who I just proved is FTL therefore he is also FTL. Meliodas defeated Zeldris in the past and is stronger than Demon King so he is FTL. Escanor defeated FTL Zeldris in 4 moves therefore he is FTL.
Your deduction is valid, but it assumes a premise which has not been proven yet: that Ludoshel can move at light speed, which is not stated in the wiki. If you cannot prove this assumption, then the rest of your argument is flushed down the toilet.
The Demon King created the REALM of demons.
Realm =/= Planet Realm =/= Moon
This feat isn't meaningful without more context and more specific details.
In Norse mythology a realm is another world.
Another World =/= Planet Another World =/= Moon
Another world can range from "city" to "multiverse" and anything in between.
Also, is NNT the same thing as Norse mythology or based on Norse mythology? No. Okay, moving on.
In NNT the demon realm is not given a size, but it is big enough to hold an entire race of demons, including extremely large demons such as Induras and red and gray demons. A realm is at least the size of an EXTREMELY ******* LARGE moon or more likely the size of a planet.
No, sir, this is false. There are approximately 7.8*10^9 humans on planet Earth. You can fit all those humans inside the physical territory spanned by the city of Los Angeles, California. So, this is not at all an impressive feat, size wise. This is a large country level feat AT BEST.
In chapter 312 of the manga, the Demon King says that once the power of Zeldris's body is completely under his control he will be able to regain his original power as the demon king. Demon King got his Original Power and Escanor fought evenly against the Demon King in the One mode, therefore Escanor in the ONE mode has the power to destroy a REALM sized existence which is probably planet level. Escanor the One Ultimate was more powerful than the Demon King therfore he is higher than Planet Level. Meliodas has more power than the demon king, it is stated in the manga, therefore he is higher than planet level. Ban fought against Demon King Meliodas, who is not as powerful as the Demon King but has half of the power of the demon king and the full power of Meliodas bfore he transforms. This is not planet level but atleast moon level. Ban fought evenly against him therefore he is moon level. I think King should be moon level like Ban because the Original Demon has a power of 334,000 or so which is similiar or higher than half of the Demon King's power. This is not as backed up by feats so you can agree or disagree with this.
Your deductions are once again valid, but they bounce off a false premise, which makes your conclusion not true. As I said, creating a realm is not necessarily a planet level feat, and a feat of the same caliber as the Demon King's is large country level at best, which oddly enough, is consistent with the High 6-B ranking that Meliodas has in his profile.
I really appreciate that you took your time to eloquently state your arguments and that you didn't just go off mindlessly repeating stuff that the others have said that we have already addressed 15+ times. I tip my hat off to you. But, with all that said, I honestly don't think you have successfully proven that NNT are FTL or planet level, due to the counterarguments I have presented above.
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Massive NLF abuse with Nero being able to unseal something she has no info about. Being able to seal doesn't grant you the ability to unseal anythingm Also being immune to magic doesn't make you immune to teleportation, teleportation is spatial manipulation which manipulates space, has nothing to do with the person/object being manipulated. Merlin can also teleport Vanessa and since it's not a harming spell the red cat won't have any effect here. Yami's slash once it hits the target it does normal damage, Meliodas simply stiching himself back together is an easy task (Monspiet was cut in pieces and healed, Galan was cut in half and healed).
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Massive NLF abuse with Nero being able to unseal something she has no info about.
What the hell are you talking about? Nero has plenty of info about Asta's swords. Also, as I stated before, she has done more impressive things than unsealing weapons, so I have no idea why you think she wouldn't be able to unseal the swords. It is a feat-based claim, not an NLF. I've never heard such ridiculousness in my life.
Being able to seal doesn't grant you the ability to unseal anything
Anything that she can seal, she can also unseal, and that does not mean she can seal anything, by the way. The description of her magic is that she can seal and unseal things. There is no evidence that she cannot unseal Asta's swords, while there is evidence that she can based on the more impressive feats.
Also being immune to magic doesn't make you immune to teleportation, teleportation is spatial manipulation which manipulates space, has nothing to do with the person/object being manipulated.
Wrong. What constitutes teleportation is dependent on the verse, and within the verse, it is dependent on context. Teleportation can involve spatial manipulation in some verse, but not in others. Teleportation is magic in some verse, but not in others. There are plenty of characters in this wiki that have teleportation feats but not spatial manipulation feats, and as such, their profiles only list teleportation in their Power and Abilities section, not spatial manipulation. Merlin's teleportation, specifically, is magic, as is basically almost everything else in the NNT verse, and the same is true of the Black Clover verse. The only thing in Black Clover not magical are physical objects themselves, and anti-magic. Per the rules of the forum, if two universes are magic based and abilities are never stated to not be magic, then verse equalization renders those abilities as magic, and so anything that resists or nullifies magic applies to it, unless said magic happens to have resistance to power negation. IN FACT, Merlin does NOT have spatial manipulation in her profile. If you really believe you are so correct and aren't being dishonest with me right now like you have been throughout the rest of the thread, and if so you want to have spatial manipulation to her profile, then you can talk to an admin and start a CRT. Otherwise, this argument is completely invalid on your part.
Merlin can also teleport Vanessa and since it's not a harming spell the red cat won't have any effect here.
I have already provided the calculations that definitively prove that Merlin's BFR has no real effect in this battle, because the Black Bulls are fast enough that they can return to the battlefield rather quickly, and because Finral's magic can help with this as well. I'm not going to repeat myself. Don't be lazy and go read the actual thread and find the calculations I've done, I'm tired of doing all the work that seemingly no one else in this thread is willing to put. Otherwise, you'd have to take my word for it. And if you don't, then I'm simply not going to bother responding to any of the other nonsense that you say, because it shows you're not willing to put effort into the discussion, and so you'd be ruining my entertainment and wasting my time. I hope that was clear enough. I'm seriously repeating stuff here that was brought up not only by myself, but by many other people here already, and it's irritating that this gets ignored.
Yami's slash once it hits the target it does normal damage, Meliodas simply stiching himself back together is an easy task (Monspiet was cut in pieces and healed, Galan was cut in half and healed).
True, but if Gauche uses Mirror Brigade on Yami and the Yami clones take on all of Meliodas' hearts, then he cannot regenerate.
As for Hunter Fest rendering someone unconcious https://ww3.***************.com/chapter/nanatsu-no-taizai-chapter-144/ (the townspeople)
This doesn't prove the people were rendered unconscious, all it proves is that their energy was taken away. The fact that some townspeople were talking after the fact puts into doubt the claim that they went unconscious. Sure, maybe they did go unconscious eventually offscreen, but you would need more details to confirm that. Providing a very vague scan that only shows people running out of energy doesn't prove anything about whether they stay conscious or not.
What the hell are you talking about? Nero has plenty of info about Asta's swords. Also, as I stated before, she has done more impressive things than unsealing weapons, so I have no idea why you think she wouldn't be able to unseal the swords. It is a feat-based claim, not an NLF. I've never heard such ridiculousness in my life.
Being able to seal doesn't grant you the ability to unseal anything
Anything that she can seal, she can also unseal, and that does not mean she can seal anything, by the way. The description of her magic is that she can seal and unseal things. There is no evidence that she cannot unseal Asta's swords, while there is evidence that she can based on the more impressive feats.
Also being immune to magic doesn't make you immune to teleportation, teleportation is spatial manipulation which manipulates space, has nothing to do with the person/object being manipulated.
Wrong. What constitutes teleportation is dependent on the verse, and within the verse, it is dependent on context. Teleportation can involve spatial manipulation in some verse, but not in others. Teleportation is magic in some verse, but not in others. There are plenty of characters in this wiki that have teleportation feats but not spatial manipulation feats, and as such, their profiles only list teleportation in their Power and Abilities section, not spatial manipulation. Merlin's teleportation, specifically, is magic, as is basically almost everything else in the NNT verse, and the same is true of the Black Clover verse. The only thing in Black Clover not magical are physical objects themselves, and anti-magic. Per the rules of the forum, if two universes are magic based and abilities are never stated to not be magic, then verse equalization renders those abilities as magic, and so anything that resists or nullifies magic applies to it, unless said magic happens to have resistance to power negation. IN FACT, Merlin does NOT have spatial manipulation in her profile. If you really believe you are so correct and aren't being dishonest with me right now like you have been throughout the rest of the thread, and if so you want to have spatial manipulation to her profile, then you can talk to an admin and start a CRT. Otherwise, this argument is completely invalid on your part.
Merlin can also teleport Vanessa and since it's not a harming spell the red cat won't have any effect here.
I have already provided the calculations that definitively prove that Merlin's BFR has no real effect in this battle, because the Black Bulls are fast enough that they can return to the battlefield rather quickly, and because Finral's magic can help with this as well. I'm not going to repeat myself. Don't be lazy and go read the actual thread and find the calculations I've done, I'm tired of doing all the work that seemingly no one else in this thread is willing to put. Otherwise, you'd have to take my word for it. And if you don't, then I'm simply not going to bother responding to any of the other nonsense that you say, because it shows you're not willing to put effort into the discussion, and so you'd be ruining my entertainment and wasting my time. I hope that was clear enough. I'm seriously repeating stuff here that was brought up not only by myself, but by many other people here already, and it's irritating that this gets ignored.
Yami's slash once it hits the target it does normal damage, Meliodas simply stiching himself back together is an easy task (Monspiet was cut in pieces and healed, Galan was cut in half and healed).
True, but if Gauche uses Mirror Brigade on Yami and the Yami clones take on all of Meliodas' hearts, then he cannot regenerate.
As for Hunter Fest rendering someone unconcious https://ww3.***************.com/chapter/nanatsu-no-taizai-chapter-144/ (the townspeople)
This doesn't prove the people were rendered unconscious, all it proves is that their energy was taken away. The fact that some townspeople were talking after the fact puts into doubt the claim that they went unconscious. Sure, maybe they did go unconscious eventually offscreen, but you would need more details to confirm that. Providing a very vague scan that only shows people running out of energy doesn't prove anything about whether they stay conscious or not.
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Nero doesn't have to unseal Asta's swords, she has to unseal Merlin's spell, big difference. Just because she has unsealed Asta's swords doesn't mean she could unseal Asta's swords being sealed in another dimension (Merlin doesn't have dimensional sealing, I'm just giving you an example). Especially since Merlin apparently has a container to carry the swords with (her ST). BC characters are FTL but that's for combat speed, in travel speed they're definitely not fast enough to cover 360 miles in a few seconds like you say. Besides, what's their range? How will they know where the battle is happening after getting transported? How can Finral pinpoint the exact location where X character was transported? I would like you to show me scans for this if there are any. There was a scan of someone passing out after Ban stole his strength but I don't remember when or what chapter that is. But even if they don't pass out BC team won't be able to move like Meliodas during his fight with Ban. BC team has no way of knowing where all 7 of Mel's hearts are. Gauche's copies are magic which can be negated anyway.
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@Ah Gou
Most mages within black clover are acute sensors of magic, it's never really been a problem for them to feel big sources of mana. With the black bulls, Luck actually is often shown as the best sensor of the group able to sense around the country during the Elves Invasion. This also extends to Nero, who has been shown sensing the mana of magical artifacts though in a much smaller fireld. Finral himself actually wouldn't be able to get a black bull back unless the battle took place within the black clover universe, so if this is on a neutral ground getting back a member wouldn't be that quick. They said member shouldn't be hard to place since Merlin shouldn't be teleporting people too far due to her own teleportation range and the neutral battleground. That and Finral could potentially counter merlins teleportation like his does his brothers, though that's a big assumption on my part.
On the topic of Hunter Fest knocking out the black bulls, this would most definitely be considered an attack upon them and sent off by Rouge. If she's not there, it should work without issue. Though the technique itself doesn't assure a knock out, just a possible one. Reinforcement magic would also be a useful backup that most mages have access to since it's a standard magic spell, which should allow movement for the group if hit.
On the topic of meliodas' hearts, it is possible for both Nero, Asta, and Yami to identify him as a demon. And they would remember what they had to do to kill their last demon, not just that but we've been shown meliodas getting one-shot before, even if a weaker state, Assault Mode did get knocked out by only a single slash of Escanoar's The One. Getting split down the middle, would probably hit one of Meliodas' hearts, and might just knock him out of the fight.
Most mages within black clover are acute sensors of magic, it's never really been a problem for them to feel big sources of mana. With the black bulls, Luck actually is often shown as the best sensor of the group able to sense around the country during the Elves Invasion. This also extends to Nero, who has been shown sensing the mana of magical artifacts though in a much smaller fireld. Finral himself actually wouldn't be able to get a black bull back unless the battle took place within the black clover universe, so if this is on a neutral ground getting back a member wouldn't be that quick. They said member shouldn't be hard to place since Merlin shouldn't be teleporting people too far due to her own teleportation range and the neutral battleground. That and Finral could potentially counter merlins teleportation like his does his brothers, though that's a big assumption on my part.
On the topic of Hunter Fest knocking out the black bulls, this would most definitely be considered an attack upon them and sent off by Rouge. If she's not there, it should work without issue. Though the technique itself doesn't assure a knock out, just a possible one. Reinforcement magic would also be a useful backup that most mages have access to since it's a standard magic spell, which should allow movement for the group if hit.
On the topic of meliodas' hearts, it is possible for both Nero, Asta, and Yami to identify him as a demon. And they would remember what they had to do to kill their last demon, not just that but we've been shown meliodas getting one-shot before, even if a weaker state, Assault Mode did get knocked out by only a single slash of Escanoar's The One. Getting split down the middle, would probably hit one of Meliodas' hearts, and might just knock him out of the fight.
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Finral can definitely not counter Merlin's teleportation like he did to his brother cuz they're different abilities. Yeah I'm aware they have extraordinary sensing abilities but wasn't Luck only able to sense them cuz of their HUGE ammount of magic which Vanessa doesn't have and tbf the kingdom itself is not very big, neither is the country so I'm gonna need a feat of his sensory range. Hunter Fest does insure 100% knockout if X characters are out of strength since you need physical strength to move and stand, and Ban's limit should be higher than all their physical power combined. Meliodas CAN be knocked out, dunno why people think he can't be unless you destroy all his hearts. However non of them have the abilities or pottency to even slighly hurt him apart from Yami with his dimensional slash, which as i stated above can easily be regenerated.
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Sins win fra
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For reason above? What reasons? No actual reasons that have not already been addressed have been presented.BurlapJack said:
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Nero doesn't have to unseal Asta's swords, she has to unseal Merlin's spell, big difference. Just because she has unsealed Asta's swords doesn't mean she could unseal Asta's swords being sealed in another dimension (Merlin doesn't have dimensional sealing, I'm just giving you an example). Especially since Merlin apparently has a container to carry the swords with (her ST).
Nero's job when she worked for Lumière was to deal with magic items. She can most definitely deal with Merlin's magic items. None of them have been stated to have resistance to sealing negation, IIRC.
BC characters are FTL but that's for combat speed, in travel speed they're definitely not fast enough to cover 360 miles in a few seconds like you say. Besides, what's their range? How will they know where the battle is happening after getting transported? How can Finral pinpoint the exact location where X character was transported? I would like you to show me scans for this if there are any.
Yeah I'm aware they have extraordinary sensing abilities but wasn't Luck only able to sense them cuz of their HUGE ammount of magic which Vanessa doesn't have and tbf the kingdom itself is not very big, neither is the country so I'm gonna need a feat of his sensory range.
1. Vanessa can summon Black Bulls members to the battlefield with Red Thread of Fate, and we know this thanks to her feat during the her fight with Magna against Rufel, who was possessing Luck's body and magic at the time. She summoned Asta to the battlefield without any knowledge of where he was, and he was on the other side of the country, and this was done because the spelled pulled him towards her and Magna before Rufel's final attack against Magna, at a speed much faster than anyone in the Black Bulls can travel, even faster than The Raging Black Bull: Charging Style, spatial magic aside. This renders BFR against any of them, including herself, insignificant.
2. Knowing where the battlefield is in order to know how to return is easy, because The Raging Black Bull: Combat Style is so large that it can be spotted from the capital when it is on the outskirts of the commoner realm.
3. Fallen Angel's Wingbeat is a homing spell, so it is arguable he does not need to know the exact location of anyone who is BFR'd, and his magic can span hundredsof kilometers, as stated in his profile, so range is not a problem.
4. It's unfair to ask for scans about a question that is already answered in Luck's profile, especially because you haven't given any valid scans yourself for the questions you were asked, which are not answered in any of the profiles of NNT. Also, any calculation concerning any exact measures of range in Black Clover would require preccise calculations for the size of the kingdom, and we lack such a calculation. Therefore, claiming the kingdom is "not that big" is completely unjustified, especially since "big" is a relative term. Anyhow, whether Luck can sense mana from that far or not is irrelevant due to points 1-3, and due to the fact that Finral can use Fallen Angel's Wingbeat on himself and some other bulls with flight and teleport them into the high sky above the base, which would make scouting the skies more easy, and therefore, they could spot members more easily, since they would no longer need to rely on mana sensing or ki sensing, because the act of seeing the magic would solve the problem.
5. Merlin is very unlikely to be able to BFR any of them due to the fact that their strategy revolves partially around recombination magic. I will explain later the significance of this in more detail.
6. The Raging Black Bull, which renders the base mobile, in combination with Red Thread of Fate, would allow them to stall and even move around the battlefield and run for hundreds of miles if needed, without being able to even be touched by NNT. As they get more acquainted with the battlefield, BFR becomes less relevant. This is advantageous in the case the battle were to take place in Britannia, and in any other battlefield that is not Britannia, BFR would not be useful for Merlin to use, since she would be completely unfamiliar with the environment.
There was a scan of someone passing out after Ban stole his strength but I don't remember when or what chapter that is.
Hunter Fest does insure 100% knockout if X characters are out of strength since you need physical strength to move and stand, and Ban's limit should be higher than all their physical power combined.
1. If there is no scan, then I am not going to concede to the claim.
2. This is not that huge of an issue thanks to the fact that cotton magic and food magic restoring their mana will help restore physical strength, as well as the fact that Nero can help replenish the body via sealing magic, since she can seal away pain and wounds, and the fact that several of the members can use reinforcement magic or mana skin.
3. Even if the two points above were not in favor of the Black Bulls, Ban would still need to be able to successfully infiltrate the base of the Black Bulls in The Raging Black Bull form, and then actually find all the members to kill them, all before the time limit of Hunter Fest is reached. And this would only be an issue assuming BFR was a problem, and I already gave 6 reasons why it is not, at least one of which seems impossible to refute to me.
BC team has no way of knowing where all 7 of Mel's hearts are. Gauche's copies are magic which can be negated anyway.
Meliodas CAN be knocked out, dunno why people think he can't be unless you destroy all his hearts. However non of them have the abilities or pottency to even slighly hurt him apart from Yami with his dimensional slash, which as i stated above can easily be regenerated.
1. The hearts themselves cannot be regenerated.
2. They could probably find the hearts via ki sensing.
3. Knowing where the hearts are is unnecessary, since a successful combination of Mirror Brigade and Dark Cloaked Dimensional Slash would likely result in Meliodas being cut to pieces, and since his regen is mid level, this means death for him. The spells can be negated, but it is unlikely that Mirror Brigade could be negated because the clones would be attacking from within The Raging Black Bull. Also, Counter Vanish and Absolute Cancel have limitations which can be exploited via strategizing, by taking into account the cast times and what not.
4. Destroying the hearts is not necessary, but it is the most difficult task to do. If there exists at least one prospect of an achievable scenario for them to destroy the hearts, which they do, then they can definitely knock him out with plausibility.
5. Meliodas can regenerate the wounds, but the damage stays. This is stated both in the section of weaknesses and of special techniques and abilities in his profile. It is also stated that because of this, it means that eventually, he would no longer be able to regenerate, and even if he could, it still means he would be weaker because of it. Therefore, durability is not going to be a decisive factor in him contributing to a win for NNT. His stamina is not infinite.
6. Asta can negate Regenerationn in magic-based verses with the Demon-Slayer sword, as he did against Zagred.
Nero's job when she worked for Lumière was to deal with magic items. She can most definitely deal with Merlin's magic items. None of them have been stated to have resistance to sealing negation, IIRC.
BC characters are FTL but that's for combat speed, in travel speed they're definitely not fast enough to cover 360 miles in a few seconds like you say. Besides, what's their range? How will they know where the battle is happening after getting transported? How can Finral pinpoint the exact location where X character was transported? I would like you to show me scans for this if there are any.
Yeah I'm aware they have extraordinary sensing abilities but wasn't Luck only able to sense them cuz of their HUGE ammount of magic which Vanessa doesn't have and tbf the kingdom itself is not very big, neither is the country so I'm gonna need a feat of his sensory range.
1. Vanessa can summon Black Bulls members to the battlefield with Red Thread of Fate, and we know this thanks to her feat during the her fight with Magna against Rufel, who was possessing Luck's body and magic at the time. She summoned Asta to the battlefield without any knowledge of where he was, and he was on the other side of the country, and this was done because the spelled pulled him towards her and Magna before Rufel's final attack against Magna, at a speed much faster than anyone in the Black Bulls can travel, even faster than The Raging Black Bull: Charging Style, spatial magic aside. This renders BFR against any of them, including herself, insignificant.
2. Knowing where the battlefield is in order to know how to return is easy, because The Raging Black Bull: Combat Style is so large that it can be spotted from the capital when it is on the outskirts of the commoner realm.
3. Fallen Angel's Wingbeat is a homing spell, so it is arguable he does not need to know the exact location of anyone who is BFR'd, and his magic can span hundredsof kilometers, as stated in his profile, so range is not a problem.
4. It's unfair to ask for scans about a question that is already answered in Luck's profile, especially because you haven't given any valid scans yourself for the questions you were asked, which are not answered in any of the profiles of NNT. Also, any calculation concerning any exact measures of range in Black Clover would require preccise calculations for the size of the kingdom, and we lack such a calculation. Therefore, claiming the kingdom is "not that big" is completely unjustified, especially since "big" is a relative term. Anyhow, whether Luck can sense mana from that far or not is irrelevant due to points 1-3, and due to the fact that Finral can use Fallen Angel's Wingbeat on himself and some other bulls with flight and teleport them into the high sky above the base, which would make scouting the skies more easy, and therefore, they could spot members more easily, since they would no longer need to rely on mana sensing or ki sensing, because the act of seeing the magic would solve the problem.
5. Merlin is very unlikely to be able to BFR any of them due to the fact that their strategy revolves partially around recombination magic. I will explain later the significance of this in more detail.
6. The Raging Black Bull, which renders the base mobile, in combination with Red Thread of Fate, would allow them to stall and even move around the battlefield and run for hundreds of miles if needed, without being able to even be touched by NNT. As they get more acquainted with the battlefield, BFR becomes less relevant. This is advantageous in the case the battle were to take place in Britannia, and in any other battlefield that is not Britannia, BFR would not be useful for Merlin to use, since she would be completely unfamiliar with the environment.
There was a scan of someone passing out after Ban stole his strength but I don't remember when or what chapter that is.
Hunter Fest does insure 100% knockout if X characters are out of strength since you need physical strength to move and stand, and Ban's limit should be higher than all their physical power combined.
1. If there is no scan, then I am not going to concede to the claim.
2. This is not that huge of an issue thanks to the fact that cotton magic and food magic restoring their mana will help restore physical strength, as well as the fact that Nero can help replenish the body via sealing magic, since she can seal away pain and wounds, and the fact that several of the members can use reinforcement magic or mana skin.
3. Even if the two points above were not in favor of the Black Bulls, Ban would still need to be able to successfully infiltrate the base of the Black Bulls in The Raging Black Bull form, and then actually find all the members to kill them, all before the time limit of Hunter Fest is reached. And this would only be an issue assuming BFR was a problem, and I already gave 6 reasons why it is not, at least one of which seems impossible to refute to me.
BC team has no way of knowing where all 7 of Mel's hearts are. Gauche's copies are magic which can be negated anyway.
Meliodas CAN be knocked out, dunno why people think he can't be unless you destroy all his hearts. However non of them have the abilities or pottency to even slighly hurt him apart from Yami with his dimensional slash, which as i stated above can easily be regenerated.
1. The hearts themselves cannot be regenerated.
2. They could probably find the hearts via ki sensing.
3. Knowing where the hearts are is unnecessary, since a successful combination of Mirror Brigade and Dark Cloaked Dimensional Slash would likely result in Meliodas being cut to pieces, and since his regen is mid level, this means death for him. The spells can be negated, but it is unlikely that Mirror Brigade could be negated because the clones would be attacking from within The Raging Black Bull. Also, Counter Vanish and Absolute Cancel have limitations which can be exploited via strategizing, by taking into account the cast times and what not.
4. Destroying the hearts is not necessary, but it is the most difficult task to do. If there exists at least one prospect of an achievable scenario for them to destroy the hearts, which they do, then they can definitely knock him out with plausibility.
5. Meliodas can regenerate the wounds, but the damage stays. This is stated both in the section of weaknesses and of special techniques and abilities in his profile. It is also stated that because of this, it means that eventually, he would no longer be able to regenerate, and even if he could, it still means he would be weaker because of it. Therefore, durability is not going to be a decisive factor in him contributing to a win for NNT. His stamina is not infinite.
6. Asta can negate Regenerationn in magic-based verses with the Demon-Slayer sword, as he did against Zagred.
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