Bionicle DOWNGRADE

[Xantospoc]

In response to this theory

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/266605

Everything stated about the 'universe' doesn't adress the physical universe of the universe but the "Matoran Universe" itself. Said Matoran universe is Mata Nui itself AKA a 40.000km tall robot. Even the so called 'stars' there are actually just a representation of Mata Nui's thoughts. The universe is just a bunch of islands together in the shape of a guy (but regulated by gravity manipulation)


The Kanohi being broken and everything would affect only that small area


I require a downgrade because of this.

 

[Antvasima]

What tiers do you suggest instead?

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

You should write what tier you're suggesting

 

[Xantospoc]

Oh my bad.

Now, destruction of time is unquantifiable as it's time in a small area. Literally.

Arthaka has no shown feats besides defeating Karzani, who fought (and lost to) a weakened Makuta Teridax, who is scaled at 6-B.

Trem Krom is featless besides killing Takadox, but I guess placing him below Mata Nui at moon level (stated he could control the original small area, but was unable to create the whole sistem)

The Great Beings are featless and unknown. Literally we have no way to state them as they only operate through what they create, we have only barely seen them and we don't know HOW they create those things

Great Spirit Teridax and MAta Nui are large planet+ level, but with a lower durability due to Teridax dying due to having his "brain" (more like the place which stored his consciousness) destroyed by a falling meteor. Either that or keep large planet as another show of his death (both have been referenced) show hm crushed by Bota Magna falling on him. Also, he has no Regenerationn or immortality in that form.

 

[Promestein]

For the record, when I first made the page for Teridax he was just Large Planet level.

Destruction of a small spacetime continuum is High 3-A, and Vahi could have destroyed the Matoran Universe if used incorrectly. Likewise, Ignika just had that power regardless. "Small area" is the entire Matoran Universe, and Vahi collapses its future, past, and present all into a single mess through its power. This is at the very least High 3-A, and likely Low 2-C due to said spacetime continuum stretching infinitely into the future. You are right that Artakha has no feats - but each of the masks are equal to each other, so logically, Ignika, Vahi, and Artakha are all High 3-A to Low 2-C, with Low 2-C being far more likely.

Karzahni's page has not yet been made, but yes, he was going to be 6-B when I got along to it. He was obviously inferior to his brother. You're right on the star thing, though, so that can be removed. Doesn't really matter all that much.

Tren Krom assisted in the creation of the Matoran Universe. The fact that he assisted in the creation of something that likely had an infinite spacetime continuum would make him Low 2-C regardless. Or, you know, High 3-A if we want to go back to more conservative tierings. As with the Great Beings, although they're harder to quantify due to the nature of their powers and such, but they'd still be Low 2-C. They created things through technology, as stated by Word of God.

Anyways, Teridax and Mata Nui are superior to the Legendary Kanohi, Teridax spoke of destroying universes, and possessed control over the Matoran Universe within him, time, space, and all. Teridax was High 3-A before due to the Matoran Universe being planet sized, but, to be honest, it's still an infinite spacetime continuum, so Low 2-C is likely.

 

[Xantospoc]

1) of a space time continuum. Not a space time smaller than earth. It had no power outside the Matoran universe. The Matoran Universe IS small. Again, it was only Mata Nui body. Not anything which can be used unless the fight is set in the Matoran Universe. It's been outright stated by GregF, back when he was answering BZpower (I miss those days) that smashing the Legendary Kanohis would had no effect in the real universe. The Kanohi are just weak points of the space time continuum ANd the life. Not as strong as that. Also, the Ignika's destruction would have just brought everything to life.

2) Trem Krom was just a caretaker. Nothing more, nothing less. When Mata Nui was made he was useles, hence sealed. He didn't help in its creation.

3) We create nukes. We are below Nukes. Nuff said. Technology doesn't imply anything belonging to their power. The only thing we know is that the Great Being made Allona go crazy.

4) Had Teridax been able to conquer a universe like that, he'd have done so, not gone onto a planet and tried to use an army and his power. Just snapped his fingers. Also he is an arrogant prick. His claims aren't too reliant and could just adress the two.

 

[Promestein]

That is still spacetime being destroyed by collapsing its future/past/present into one point; that is still High 3-A. Although the fact that it wouldn't do much of anything in the regular universe is a good point, it would still have a High 3-A effect when destroyed within the Matoran Universe.

But, you have good points, and I don't have many counterarguments, so you're probably right. It would be hard to tier Artakha and Ignika, given that they're supposed to be equal to Vahi. The Great Beings are a problem. It would probably be best to either delete their page or just list them as "Unknown".

 

[Xantospoc]

Then we can place the tiers you proposed as High 3-A and Low 2-C pointing out within the Matoran Universe. As Mata Nui apparently also weaves his creation's destiny (sadly he became unattentive to it so.... and later GregF was cornered when asked 'what about the beings born in the Matoran's universe while Mata Nui was asleep). Still, if he were 2-C I doubt he could have been beaten like he was by Makuta, through a virus and lack of attention. But this is me speculating.

Alas, the Great Beings are an unknown and what with the reboot, they will still be. I used to be a huge fan of Bionicle, but bad sales made the story end before we could even find out about the Element Lords and more.

 

[Promestein]

That seems good to me. It'd be best to list it as a weakness (that they can't fully utilize their powers outside the Matoran Universe). So... Low 2-C / High 3-A in the Matoran Universe for the masks. What about Teridax and Mata Nui in the GSR / Prototype Robot? I still believe High 3-A / Low 2-C is accurate for them, given that the Matoran Universe is the source of the mask's power and they control it; Teridax not taking over the entire universe is likely some sort of PIS.

I don't know about Tren Krom. A portion of Mata Nui's body could range from Country level to Small Planet level. Perhaps it'd be best to say "Unknown, at least 6-B". Planet durability is also good for Teridax and Mata Nui's durability in the GSR (maybe?), as a moon-sized collision would be Planet level, I believe. If it isn't PIS, anyways.

 

[Antvasima]

So, are there some profiles that need to be unlocked, and if so, which ones?

 

[Promestein]

I am not sure, yet. We probably have to discuss things a bit more and get everything ironed out.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

That would be a good idea, yes.

 

[Promestein]

My thoughts on the matter:

• Vahi, Ignika, and Artakha get notes specifying that they lose much of their power outside of the Matoran Universe.
• Artakha gets "At least 6-B normally. Low 2-C with the Mask of Creation."
• Tren Krom gets downgraded to "At least 6-B."
• GSR Teridax and Mata Nui remain how they are, though with possible causality manipulation added due to them supposedly being responsible for weaving the fate of those within them.
• I also need to add more things for Teridax specifying his weaknesses (can only use one Rahkshi power at a time, loses several of his powers as the GSR).
• Great Beings are "Unknow. Low 2-C with technology."

The other thread I made described why Low 2-C is more likely than High 3-A.

I would appreciate other people's thoughts on this.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that this seems reasonable.

 

[Xantospoc]

My issue is that none of those characters (Artakha, GSR Teridax and Mata Nui) are able to use such level of power in combat, and they can only use it in regards of the Matoran Universe, not the Bionicle-verse at large.

Otherwise, again, Teridax would have conquered galaxies fom aqua Magna, not bothered to look for the ignika from there

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. What do you think Promestein?

 

[Promestein]

The fact that they can only use it within the Matoran Universe would be noted. They can still use it for combat purposes; Low 2-C just acts as the reference point for the power of their hax and creation abilities.

There's still Teridax's statement of universal destruction with Mata Nui. Arrogant or not, I doubt Teridax would incorrectly brag about things other people can do, as a lot of the statement depended on him and Mata Nui together. It wouldn't make much sense, either, for Teridax and Mata Nui to be weaker than the things that depend on the universe that they contain for power. And when they ARE that universe, they should be able to call upon that power fairly easily regardless of location. But, if you're really uncomfortable with them being like that, how about; "Low 2-C within the Matoran Universe, 5-A when acting outside of it" then, for GSR Teridax and Mata Nui.

I still think that the fact that Teridax stuck around as opposed to going out and about was just PIS to keep him around and advance the plot.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that seems reasonable.

 

[Promestein]

My thoughts on the matter:

Sorry to bump this, but this thread was not concluded, and there are changes that I need to put into action, so if no one has any problems with them, I'll start doing so.

Quoting what I said earlier for context to the changes.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Prom

Well, the Great Beings still have this feat, no?

"They casually sealed Tren Krom in a prison he was unable to escape, and later, one Great Being easily unsealed and killed him"

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Don't have any problems here.

 

[Promestein]

Yes. But Tren Krom probably falls within the range of 6-B to 5-C, going by the discussion we had here, earlier.

 

[Promestein]

I'll put the changes that were agreed upon before into action.

 

[Promestein]

Done with the changes that were agreed upon.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Aye

 

[Elizio33]

Hi everyone I'm new here! and I have a few questions about bionicle god tiers. Why Mata Nui, Artakha Ignika and are classified universal + tiers? First, the Matoran universe is the equivalent of a planet not a universe. The only one character of bionicle who COULD be universal level is the Golden Skinned Being and maybe Annona but there is no proof for this. And why Tren Krom is not in the god tiers? Yet, he is one of the most powerful of bionicle it was even mentionned that he had powers that almost rival those of Mata Nui. Plus, Tren Krom was able to cancel easely the illusions of Teridax when his powers have been amplified by the GSR. (Former body of Mata Nui and the Matoran universe) Would it be reasonable to downgrade the god tiers of bionicle to the planetary level?

 

[Promestein]

This has been discussed.

The feats that the Legendary Kanohi have are High Universe to Universe level+ and are generally portrayed as such.

Don't necro threads, also