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Big Fairy Tail AP and Speed CRT

Rin The Dragon Empress said:
Irene's feat is most certainly an outlier as its way above the best feat in the series.
Click to expand...
I doubt it is hax when there is physical damage done to the land even after reverting back to normal, otherwise Azuma and Nirvana would be considered hax users as well since they utilize the magic of the earth as well.

Nor is it that different from the rest of the feats, it actually quite fit in the EoS part of the story
 
Universe One is hax. All it does is allow Irene to rearrange/shrink Fiore. The damage after it ended was a result of all the fighting that was happening. Just because she stops messing with the layout of the country doesn't mean she will just revert any damage/changes done to it that were not a result of her spell.

>Nirvana

You realise this is purely hax, yes? How can manipulating morality be AP?

>Azuma

He is a hax user. Its called power absorption.

It only fits with all of the hax. AP wise, it is very different from the majority of feats short of the god tiers, of which she is not.
 
That is why it is not reality warping because the damage remained and was not fixed before or after the U1 was released. Even when reshaping the country, there was even debris or damage, especially in the basement of FH chamber and the room is much more visible than before, even after returning to normal, the damage left from the previous battles during U1 still remained. The only side effect is teleportation which is the real reality warping.

Sorry, i meant Reality warping because apparently people are saying that something that can be calced and measured is reality warping some how

No, I am not referring to it's magic Nirvana, I am referring to Nirvana using the magic of the earth as fuel to make it operational and even has a canon on it. No reality warping there

And Azuma absorbing is AP as well since he diverts that power into explosions. No reality warping

So just like the two above I fail to see how manipulation of the magic in the earth and compression is reality warping when it does physical damage
 
Yeah no, Universe One's effects completely reversed after Irene Died, all that debris and damage was from the other battles that happened
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
Yeah no, Universe One's effects completely reversed after Irene Died, all that debris and damage was from the other battles that happened
Click to expand...
And that is suppose to make a difference? And that is the reason why it is not reality warping because those battles happened during U1 as well, and there was debris in places that did not have any battle before U1 remained, such as when FH room was compressed, there was no falling rocks before U1, but after there was.
 
I honestly don't know why we keep talking about these when we already know their outliers.

Can we all just talk about the Ice Shell and get this over with? I don't agree on the Abyss Break cause it needs certain components to even be created but idk about the IS so let's just talk about that now
 
We talk about them because they are discussion worthy, and no, they are not outlier, with Spriggans Max power is Large Country, where as Irene and August's level is Small Continent and Zeref and Acno scale higher than that with Space between time and FH which would scale higher than DC. We have been over this, AB power output is determined by it's size which I'd divided by the Element Four. And Iced Shell is supported by Don'tTalk, so there we go.
 
@CNBA3

No it Abyss Break needs certain elements to be made (even in yur calc blog u said the same thing) hence why it was getting slower and slower when one of the Elemental Four was defeated

EDIT: The Ice Shell was chipping away Delioras life instead of just being able to destroy it 1 or couple of hits so idk about that
 
Yes but that does not matter as it is one half of the formula, the size is what determines it's energy output and it is divided to the Element Four. And it is going slower because the fuel source is being cut off. And Iced Shell has the durability to withstand all of the moonlight concentrated into that one point, that is the point I am making
 
@CNBA3

You gotta know when to hold em, and know when to fold em, and buddy, it's folding time, nobody agrees with you, it's ok to want to argue for your side, but when the majority doesn't agree and you've made your argument, you gotta back out, maybe if there are more 6-B calcs in 100 year quest and we get confirmation that the spriggans scale to these feats, then we can revisit the calcs, but for now, let's move on
 
It doesn't even matter about the size of Abyss Break in general. It's has been said to be a forbidden magic cause it's that powerful meaning that it would give the same amount of power to anyone as long as u have the components to make it so really Abyss Break is a spell seperate on its own. No one should scale to it if needs elements to make it (literally someone could be a lot weaker and still make AB if they have the stuff they need)
 
It does as that is the mechanic behind the Abyss Break which seems to be something you missed along the way. No, it is forbidden because in the world of Fairy Tail it is inhumane. And there are plenty of spells that scales higher than Abyss Break and they are not forbidden, that is just asinine what you said. It does not as Loke notes that the size of the spell would destroy half of the town, you need to read it again. And the elemental four scales to it as they are the components for the spell as their elemental magic fuels it. And it does not not matter as Erza scales to Wizard Saints who scale higher than Aria at full power that instantly powers the weapon. Jellal made it and he still had the means to destroy the entire tower in one shot.
 
Of course a spell is inhuman what yur point lol. It's forbidden cause it's a powerful and dangerous spell which has been shown twice and characters were freaking out about it which is something I forgot along the way. Size doesn't matter at all, by that logic that would mean that if Natsu was to create a bigger magic seal then he would be stronger then Makarov correct? Yeah no sorry but it ain't about size of magic seal especially from just one person saying it. I don't need to read it again cause I already know but u need to understand is that Abyss Break needs components to even be created which is something again u said yourself and it explains why it was getting slower when a member of that specific element was defeated

EDIT: still trying to figure out what is the mechanism behind AB when all u really need is to have the key components
 
So you agree that Abyss Break being forbidden has not bearing on it's power output, good. It is not forbidden because it is powerful, there are plenty of spells powerful that are not forbidden because it is inhumane, it just clearly stated in it's introduction that size does matter, go read it again. That is factual in-verse statement that is not countered by anything, if that is the case then same can be said about your suggestion about it being forbidden. Natsu never created a magic seal, nor did Makarov, nor, does that logic work outside Abyss Break's mechanics, what are you talking about? Post actual scans instead of making things up. And again, components are just one part of the whole, which is the size of the magic circle, which determines it's power output. And defeating an element cuts off a portion of it's fuel. It is not that hard a concept to grasp.
 
Can you please stop being so aggressive? It's really uncalled for and your arguments for it not being an outlier makes no sense. Again characters are this point are barely MHS + so for them to jump to Sub Rel+ is indeed an outlier.

I am not aggressive, idk that writing wtf means getting aggressive, Character was mhs+ at that point is being true,bur it didn't mean they can't get upgrade, and that feat is more likely the reaction feat.
 
CNBA3 said:
So you agree that Abyss Break being forbidden has not bearing on it's power output, good. It is not forbidden because it is powerful, there are plenty of spells powerful that are not forbidden because it is inhumane, it just clearly stated in it's introduction that size does matter, go read it again. That is factual in-verse statement that is not countered by anything, if that is the case then same can be said about your suggestion about it being forbidden. Natsu never created a magic seal, nor did Makarov, nor, does that logic work outside Abyss Break's mechanics, what are you talking about? Post actual scans instead of making things up. And again, components are just one part of the whole, which is the size of the magic circle, which determines it's power output. And defeating an element cuts off a portion of it's fuel. It is not that hard a concept to grasp.
Click to expand...
I can tell u still not understanding a single thing I've said and making stuff up? U can use details like this in the anime as well u know like it's not hard to understand. No I don't agree with ya about the AB thing I just found it funny that u say it's inhuman when it's just some objective that shoots a powerful beam. Anyways no AB is considered forbidden cause it's can cause great damage (even though we never seen it fire) I mean why do u think it was gonna be large enough to reduce a town? do u even know what AB is like the make it pretty obvious it's something that shoots down a large beam. When something is forbidden it's cause it can cause huge amount of damage or can cause something something extremely dangerous....that how something forbidden is in general. U....u seriously don't know what an example is do u? again going by that logic....if Natsu was to create a bigger magic seal then Makarov that means he's stronger correct?

Anayways I want other opinion about Abyss Break and Ice Shell so we can get this over with
 
No you can't because that has literally no meaning at all, if magic circles have that sort of meaning then the anime (if even legit) then the anime would have explicitly stated the difference, heck even the zero manga portion had used magic circle and it is absolutely nothing like the anime which ludicrously deviates from the original source material, and it can be physically interacted with and show no inner details which only shows symbols on the borders. No, that is the standard meaning of forbidden in the fantasy base world, it is inhumane. Even in the real world meaning, you are still wrong, forbidden does not translate to dangerous, over powered, or high damage yielding attack, literally means outlawed, not allowed, banned, etc. Almost exactly what you would expect from what the word forbidden means even in a fictional universe. What I find ridiculous is your way of thinking, then that would mean the Abyss break is more powerful than even Acnologia, is that what you're saying? Again no, forbidden means it is vile, immoral and non viable for usage in the FT world. Dangerous does not mean destructive or high in AP, all we know is size of the circle matters as a certain size can destroy half of Magnolia, that is fact. Again, Natsu did not even create a magic circle, nor does that logic apply to Abyss Break, you cannot use something that is clearly an artistic filler choice in an early anime that was immediately discontinued into later seasons, explain that? Is there some lore as to why they no longer show them immediately after Sting & Rogue vs Natsu fight! I'm starting to think you are not eligible for fairy tail discussions.

Wait major plot points here, if what you're saying is correct in using Anime as well, then why would Lyon and his minions during Galuna Arc even care if the temple is crooked when they do not need the hole for moonlight to shine on Deliora to release him when the animators replaces the hole with magic circles? Huh? Explain that!

Burden of proof is on you dude

Also what about Kain's Magic huh? Even in the first Season anime he had no magic circle yet he was using magic, so by your Logic would that mean he has no magical damage at all? Huh? Because he was clearly damaging Lucy and yet you think that only those with magic circles have relevant Feats, explain that!

The only other magic with magic circles iirc is with Edolas and they operate on a totally different plane of reality with their own laws of physics compared to Earthland, and that only applies to a few instances and not all the Magic's there as well such as Mystogan and Dragon Knight with it's Breath Attack. And again, it is irrelevant to Abyss Break as they do not share the same mechanics which the size of the circle matters in AP

So we can get back to wall's feat and get the reasonable upgrade that FT gets
 
Lol the burden of proof is on u dude when yur the one that has to try and persuade us should we even use it or not. I find it hilarious that u honestly believe that we gonna use Wahl Calcs and the other that are clearly outliers it's like yur trying to do yur best to get it upgrade when we all have said numerous times that it's an outlier that I'm laughing. I find it funnier that u say I should be eligible for FT discussions when u keep thought that Igneel and Acno has flew somewhere else in their fight when it was clear they have been fighting in the same area the entire time even with the scans u brought like where are ya looking at dude 😂

Also yur way of thinking is downright terrible....just b/c something is forbidden then that means that u decided to twist something with no logic saying that "oh that means that Acno is weaker then AB" dude where did u even get that at? It was said that it's forbidden it's not rocket science or r u that desperate that u want something that's not gonna work? I can tell u have an immense hard time of trying to understand a simple example I'm laughing like u keep comparing Natsu magic seal to AB when I was using your logic to give a simple scenario. Congratulations u know what forbidden means so now u know why AB is labeled as one cause it's that dangerous like even a kid could know how something is forbidden.

Anyways again I'm waiting for everyone else to give their opinion on AB and Ice Shell simce u have already gave yours and I've gave mine but I'm sure yur gonna read this and try to keep going on with this when it's so tiring aren't u?
 
Trying to turn my words on me huh? Classic you, you have to prove that size of he AB magic circle is the same as any other magic which lacks in showing any magic circle. You have to prove it in the manga which I have already done, and you come back with nonsense. I found your logic annoying that you think that Igneel and Acno never even moved, like they floated in one place the entire time, when I said they clearly flew around while fighting, I never said they when to another area, that still is irrelevant as I used this wikia's rules to my advantage in this argument which gives the characters from GMG to Tartarus the speed upgrade. Hey, this is not the first time a different verse gets an upgrade based on one calc and suddenly all other characters get the upgrade simply by statements from the source material themselves. Bro, you stated that forbidden means powerful which has no barring and no proof, because you think that Acnologia is weaker than Abyss Break by your logic, you should think twice before speaking anything. You're trying to state something that doesn't work and you have to prove otherwise, and I've proven plenty before that forbidden means outlawed and restricted by moral, then I guess you must be a toddler to not know how Forbidden is applied in this case. Even Tower of Heaven is considered dangerous and yet it only brings back the dead, then that would be considered AP by your logic. Stop saying Natsu has a magic circle when there is none, post a scan of it from the manga then! You are clearly not getting anything from the manga at all. You are the one that keeps going on this with making things up just so you can put down any logical results, answer this question, where does it state that any magic circle in the FT universe besides Abyss Break size determines the energy out out of an attack or if there is any relevence to magic Circle to "ALL" Magic's in the verse.
 
Anyways since that's out of the way what do u y'all think about Abyss Break and Ice Shell? I gave my reasons hy we honestly shouldn't use but I want to hear what y'all honestly think so we can get this over with already

@CNBA3

Majority of people here disagree with your other Calcs so yeah that's not what's gonna get upgraded
 
And I am still giving arguments why they are not outliers and will continue to do so with logic and determination. In both in verse and in wikia
 
I like that dedication sir (I actually got goosebumps reading that comment)....alright I can feel that Will if Fire burn brightly!
 
Homu Sweet Homu said:
Normally, it was Blacke and Aubin who were at each other throat. lel
Click to expand...
Oi....if y'all can send a message on here then please give yur opinions now 😂

EDIT: has Sub Rel Dragon been accepted yet?
 
Were any of the calc Memebers even contacted? I did see that Ant-san himself say that it couldn't be used or I could just be seeing things
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
Only PoF Erza and those who scale or are above her should be Sub Rel. Although depending on the GMG this may change. I am neutral on that seeing as this is two Sub Rel feats.
Click to expand...
I agree
 
Homu Sweet Homu said:
Give me the TLDR version of the current debate.

Then I will give you my opinion.
Click to expand...
I don't know about Ice Shell but about but what I'm aeguing is that for Abyss Break, it needs certain elements in order for it Even be created which (to me) explains why it was getting slower when an Elemental Four Member was defeated cause of that was the case it could had kept going and still fire but weaker. It was losing its components that it needed for it to work. The way I see it, Abyss Break is it's own power not someone else cause even Jellal knows a variety of elemental spell and he could create it. That's how I hoesntly feel since as long as someone as those components then they could make the spell hence no one should scale from it

Now let's wait for @CNBA3 and give it's opinion then we can move on to Ice Shell
 
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