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Ben 10 Cosmology: High 1-B upgrade

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Qawsedf234 said:
Since the Contumelia make new universes as experiments and invented the Annihilarrgh to create experiments/destroy things I don't see why other forms of reality also couldn't predate the Annihilarrgh.

So my position of disagreeing with the upgrade is unchanged.
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I find this a bit baseless and not really much of a counter, even if other realities predated the Annihilarrgh(which is baseless), those would still exist in the space beyond. Given that it's meant to hold realities and be beyond them.
Hellformer said:
Okay so I'm taking your vote as neutral
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It's disagreement tho, he's not neutral.
 
Pepsimanslover_69 said:
I find this a bit baseless and not really much of a counter, even if other realities predated the Annihilarrgh(which is baseless), those would still exist in the space beyond. Given that it's meant to hold realities and be beyond them.
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Assuming that something is true without sufficient evidence is obviously fallacious
Pepsimanslover_69 said:
It's disagreement tho, he's not neutral.
Click to expand...
Welp okay
 
Hellformer said:
Assuming that something is true without sufficient evidence is obviously fallacious

Welp okay
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Don't be upset today bro. I'm remember in the past that I even try to do upgrade crt from Low 2-C Alien X to Low 1-C some admin doesn't accept that. But now Ben10 cosmology is change to 1-B. Anything can happen in future.
 
Krazydog050 said:
Don't be upset today bro. I'm remember in the past that i try to do upgrade crt from Low 2-C Alien X to Low 1-C some admin doesn't accept that. But now Ben10 cosmology is change to 1-B. Anything can happen in future.
Click to expand...
I'm not upset. But claiming something to be objectively true without any sufficient evidence is appeal to possibility fallacy.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Since the Contumelia make new universes as experiments and invented the Annihilarrgh to create experiments/destroy things I don't see why other forms of reality also couldn't predate the Annihilarrgh.
Click to expand...
Even if this Universe has existed prior to the Annhilarrgh that doesn't contradict Universes having different laws of physics. Along with all the other given reasons.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Since the Contumelia make new universes as experiments and invented the Annihilarrgh to create experiments/destroy things I don't see why other forms of reality also couldn't predate the Annihilarrgh.

So my position of disagreeing with the upgrade is unchanged.
Click to expand...
I don't see how that conclusion is meant to be a reasonable assumption. It's clearly established in the series that all universes are created by Annihilarrghs. To posit that a universe came before that doesn't have any grounding/precedent in the series.

@DarkDragonMedeus @Planck69 @Antvasima

Am I missing something? This doesn't feel right on how we're supposed to draw our conclusions on these kinds of matters.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this feels like a


Non-Sequitur​

This is when someone's conclusion is not implied at all by the premise.

Example: "Goku leaves afterimages, therefore Goku is faster than light".

The person in this example starts with a true premise (Goku leaves afterimages), but then jumps to a conclusion which is in no way implied by that premise (Goku is FTL).
Click to expand...
or

Burden of proof fallacy​

This is when someone attempts to make someone else prove a claim when the burden of proof is really on them to prove it. The burden of proof is always on the positive claim, and the person who makes the claim.

Example:

"Goku is faster than light speed because you can't prove he's not!"

In this case, the person in the example makes a claim (Goku is FTL), and without providing evidence for it himself, he asks his opponent to prove him wrong. In reality, the person who made that claim would be the one required to prove it.
Click to expand...

In this case, we have,

"Contumelia made the universes with the Annihilarrghs, therefore this universe was created before they made the Annihilarrghs."

"This universe was created before they made the Annihilarrghs because you can't prove it's not."

Qaws acknowledged that the "Annihilarrgh [is used] to create experiments," but now his conclusion is positing "but not this one" because X reason.
 
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Firestorm808 said:
In this case, we have, "Contumelia made the universes with the Annihilarrghs, therefore this universe was created before they made the Annihilarrghs."

It's even acknowledged that the "Annihilarrgh [is used] to create experiments," but now a conclusion is positing "but not this one."
Click to expand...
The burden is on him to prove his claim and I'm sure he can't. In such a case I'd request to continue this thread without Qawsedf. No offense to him but I hope you understand the reason 🙏
 
Hellformer said:
The term Dimension is separated from Universe in their own dialogue. Otherwise incalculable Universe would make zero sense. Kindly read the explanation in the OP so that it doesn't become repetitive for me.
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That argument makes no sense
They don't say "We come from a universe with incalcuable dimensions"

They say we come from an incalcuable DIMENSION not plural, meaning universe.

Just because they use both universe and dimension in the same sentence doesn't mean they are making a distinction, they aren't
 
Ezaru said:
That argument makes no sense
They don't say "We come from a universe with uncalcuable dimensions"

They say we come from an uncalcuable DIMENSION not plural, meaning universe.

Just because they use both universe and dimension in the same sentence doesn't mean they are making a distinction, they aren't
Click to expand...
All the context implies similarity to the higher dimensionality of the Nalgians and Contumelia. Their Universe is unperceivable by lower beings. Just like the Contumelia's forms and the Nalgian's dimension.
 
Ezaru said:
That argument makes no sense
They don't say "We come from a universe with uncalcuable dimensions"

They say we come from an uncalcuable DIMENSION not plural, meaning universe.

Just because they use both universe and dimension in the same sentence doesn't mean they are making a distinction, they aren't
Click to expand...
You're clearly ignoring the context again, let's understand this with an example:
"We are beings from 5th dimension, a glorious universe unfathomable to primitive mind such as yours"
And Then later on the technology contextualizes the higher dimensional nature as quoted in the OP, this would obviously allude a 5-D Universe otherwise using both the terms in a single sentence with higher dimensional context doesn't suit your way of interpretation.
 
Hellformer said:
You're clearly ignoring the context again, let's understand this with an example:
"We are beings from 5th dimension, a glorious universe unfathomable to primitive mind such as yours"
And Then later on the technology contextualizes the higher dimensional nature as quoted in the OP, this would obviously allude a 5-D Universe otherwise using both the terms in a single sentence with higher dimensional context doesn't suit your way of interpretation.
Click to expand...
To be honest, I was thinking of stuff like that as a possible counter argument.

Like, a 5d imp would say "I am from the 5th dimension"

Even tho that makes no sense, they aren't from the "fifth dimension" they are from a place that has 5d

However, those imps have a lot more supporting evidence than 1 statement

And "the 5th dimension" is a lot more clear than "an incalcuable dimension"
 
Celestial_Scaler25 said:
All the context implies similarity to the higher dimensionality of the Nalgians and Contumelia. Their Universe is unperceivable by lower beings. Just like the Contumelia's forms and the Nalgian's dimension.
Click to expand...
Right. I agree that it is higher dimensional
But "incalcuable" could just refer to that fact, that it is higher d
 
Ezaru said:
To be honest, I was thinking of stuff like that as a possible counter argument.

Like, a 5d imp would say "I am from the 5th dimension"

Even tho that makes no sense, they aren't from the "fifth dimension" they are from a place that has 5d

However, those imps have a lot more supporting evidence than 1 statement

And "the 5th dimension" is a lot more clear than "an incalcuable dimension"
Click to expand...
There is no such word as "incalculableth" as it would be grammatically wrong so your logic would fall apart either ways
 
Firestorm808 said:
Qaws acknowledged that the "Annihilarrgh [is used] to create experiments," but now his conclusion is positing "but not this one" because X reason.
Click to expand...
I guess ultimately it is a pretty weak reasoning on my part. Though I'm not sure how its a non-sequitur as much as the other logical fallacy. If the 5D beings predate everything and presumably made the device to create their expiermental universes, it would then follow that everything else would then also be created by them I guess.

Though then being Abstract by nature still wouldn't be changed under this assumption, since an experimental universe could still be a universe where the experiment is that abstract nature itself.

Like I said before I don't see the upgrade. But other than personal bias there's no logical foundation to it considering this discussion. So I guess High 1-B for a theoretical infinite stack of potentially higher dimensional spaces would more or less be the only conclusion I could support while being intellectually honest, even if I personally still don't buy into the idea.

EDIT: Sorta had to rewrite my last sentence after rethinking it through some more.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Though then being Abstract by nature still wouldn't be changed under this assumption, since an experimental universe could still be a universe where the experiment is that abstract nature itself.
Click to expand...
This is again not established within the series. All we know is that each big bang Universe follows counterintuitive laws of physics so I don't see any abstraction unless and until you provide necessary evidence.
 
Hellformer said:
All we know is that each big bang Universe follows counterintuitive laws of physics so I don't see any abstraction unless and until you provide necessary evidence.
Click to expand...
I already agreed with Firestorm from a debate standpoint. So I'm not really going to expand on my previous points.

Though as an aside, did you mean to write counterintuitive here? Because if you did then you already answered your own question, since the BDE I'm describing would directly fall into that category by its nature.
 
Hellformer said:
leave this thread to other admins.
Click to expand...
Well there's no reason to. Since after my vote change the proposal is now accepted since that was the only think holding it up (other than Planck responding).
Hellformer said:
I appreciate your input but I think other staffs can do it better 🙏
Click to expand...
Lol.

It's been awhile since I've been dissed so many times in one thread.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Well there's no reason to. Since after my vote change the proposal is now accepted since that was the only think holding it up (other than Planck responding).

Lol.

It's been awhile since I've been dissed so many times in one thread.
Click to expand...
I didn't mean to diss or offend you. It was just a humble request from my side
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Lol what

There's no circumstances where this isn't a diss or an offensive statement. You're saying I'm not good at my role and should leave this to other staff.

Like that's fine, I probably deserve it, but don't backtrack on it.
Click to expand...
It is just what I believe seeing how this thread has been going. But thanks for accepting my request, it means a lot to me 🙏
 
Firestorm808 said:
@Qawsedf234

To summarize the recent discussion:

All universes are created by Annihilarrghs from voids that lack Space-Time. While each universe may have different physics, they still create an underlying Space-Time structure.

Both Ben's Universe and the Alien's Universe are created by Annihilarrghs with an underlying Space-Time Structure, not something abstract.

Would you say this is agreeable?
Click to expand...
Can you please give your own opinion and conclude this thread?
 
Hellformer said:
There is no such word as "incalculableth" as it would be grammatically wrong so your logic would fall apart either ways
Click to expand...
They could have easily said "we are from a universe with incalcuable numbers of spacial dimensions" but they didn't

They just said their dimension is incalcuable

Just because they COULD mean it in the sense of "the fifth dimension" doesn't mean they are

And honestly, if someone said "I am from the incalcuable dimension" I would not at all assume they mean that their dimension has incalcuable number of spacial axis, they could easily mean any other aspect is incalcuable
 
Ezaru said:
They could have easily said "we are from a universe with incalcuable numbers of spacial dimensions" but they didn't

They just said their dimension is incalcuable

Just because they COULD mean it in the sense of "the fifth dimension" doesn't mean they are

And honestly, if someone said "I am from the incalcuable dimension" I would not at all assume they mean that their dimension has incalcuable number of spacial axis, they could easily mean any other aspect is incalcuable
Click to expand...
Circular argument buddy, you're completely ignoring what I've explained earlier.
 
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