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Ben 10 Cosmology: High 1-B upgrade

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Ezaru said:
They could have easily said "we are from a universe with incalcuable numbers of spacial dimensions" but they didn't

They just said their dimension is incalcuable

Just because they COULD mean it in the sense of "the fifth dimension" doesn't mean they are
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All the context provided in the comic states that they are referring to it being higher dimensional. Their Universe is unfathomable and unperceivable by lower dimensional beings(like the Contumelia's forms and the 26D the Nalgians mentioned) and they require specialized Transdimensional (Relating to a dimension other than those of the normal three-dimensional world) vessels to cross between dimensionality.
Ezaru said:
And honestly, if someone said "I am from the incalcuable dimension" I would not at all assume they mean that their dimension has incalcuable number of spacial axis, they could easily mean any other aspect is incalcuable
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Your assumption has been noted and your vote on the matter will be added as a 'Disagree' with the CRT. I'm sure Hellformer will add it.
 
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Firestorm808 said:
@Planck69 @DarkDragonMedeus

Now that the discussion has progressed, may you guys restate your stances on the following existing:

"a theoretical infinite stack of potentially higher dimensional spaces"
Click to expand...
Should be fine to me, if we're still tiering this as High 1-B. I don't feel too strongly about the whole incalculable thing anyways.
 
Planck69 said:
Should be fine to me, if we're still tiering this as High 1-B. I don't feel too strongly about the whole incalculable thing anyways.
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Hellformer said:
In case you didn't read previous pages, infinity is calculable by Dr Holiday, who is a 3-dimensional being from Ben's Universe. Keeping that in my mind, what would be your stance?
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Hellformer said:
It just hit my mind that Dr Holiday (3-D being) could calculate infinite number of space-time continuums inside a timeline. More supporting evidence for incalculable in this context referring to atleast an infinite amount.
Does this seem reasonable
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Greenshifter said:
The thing is that Maltruant was going to make a universe in his image, which includes defining how things in this infinite universe will worship him, so it’s more than just comprehending infinity as a concept.
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Rosa said:
Except "incalculable" carries the additional weight of referring to values which escape any estimate, so saying it could be a conceptualised finite number which is just unable to be derived doesn't really fit with the precise wording. Not to mention the broader context of this being higher ordered entities which view supergeniuses like Azmuth (as he is a 3-D being) as beneath them countless times over, so saying these beings are confined to finite values is definitely odd.

Overall this argument puts too much weight in the possibility of hyperbolic language; even the word "infinite" can be used hyperbolically, we judge whether or not it is the case depending on context not on a basis of "well it COULD be hyperbolic" - and in this context there's simply no indication that it is hyperbolic whilst incredibly suggested it's supposed to be read as something beyond what we've seen thus far in the series.
Click to expand...
 
Rosa said:
SAYA SETUJU
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Hellformer said:

Perkenalan​

Thread ini terutama berfokus pada peningkatan kosmologi Ben 10 ke High 1-B , yang mengakibatkan peningkatan pada beberapa karakter dan senjata.

Premis​

Untuk membuktikan kosmologi Ben 10 adalah High 1-B , saya akan memperkenalkan Alam Semesta baru di dalam Space Beyond yang disebutkan berdimensi tak terbatas dalam komik "Ghost Ship" yang kanonisitasnya telah diterima .

Penjelasan​

Alien yang disebutkan dalam komik ini, ada di Annihilarrgh Universe yang berbeda ( di mana "Universe" mengacu pada penciptaan Annihilarrgh di Ben 10: Omniverse, seperti yang diterima di utas ini ).

"We are beings from an incalculable dimension that defies the limits of space and time. A glorious universe unfathomable to a primitive mind such as yours"

"My formal denomination and the breadth of my functionality are incomprehensible to a lower life from"

"The final destination of our heroic voyage on this celebrated Transdimensional vessel is a small, insignificant blue planet in this star system, on which lies our destiny"
  • The beings in question describe themselves as originating from a universe with infinite spatio-temporal dimensions, a reality that far exceeds the limitations of our three-dimensional space and linear time. Noticeably, these beings separate "universe" from "dimension" in their own dialogue. This distinction emphasizes that the complexity lies due to these infinite dimensions, not just the universe itself. In this infinite-D universe, their existence defies the conventional boundaries of space and time, allowing them to perceive and interact with dimensions that are incomprehensible to human minds.
  • When they refer to their "formal denomination" and "breadth of functionality" they are alluding to their higher dimensional nature, complex identity and vast capabilities, which are shaped by the infinite dimensions they inhabit. To a being constrained by a limited understanding of the universe, such as a human, these concepts would be utterly incomprehensible. Thus, they emphasize that their nature and abilities cannot be grasped by "lower life forms/lower dimensional beings" that are bound by the simpler, more primitive framework of a finite-dimensional universe (Ben's Universe has 6-D rating).
Q1: Wouldn't the term "incalculable" refer to a very large number rather than infinite?
A: The term "incalculable" was used by these aliens in reference to all 3-D beings like Ben, implying that the number of dimensions in their universe is beyond calculation for 3-D beings. However, since we know that Maltruant (another 3-D being) could calculate infinity and the range of the infinite Universe, when creating a copy of Annihilarrgh and also the Chronosapien time bomb having both a “1 timeline” and “infinite timelines” setting suggests that infinity is calculable by 3-D beings and their weapons. Hence proving that the term incalculable actually refers to infinite in this context.
Edit: Kindly read this answer again, the incalculable statement was not thrown away randomly, instead it has a context i.e. something that is not calculable by 3-D beings and since I've shown proofs of them being able to calculate infinity, hence incalculable must mean infinite in this context.

Q2: Couldn't these infinite dimensions be compactified?
A: In the context of the beings' dialogue, the infinite dimensions they inhabit cannot be compactified because doing so would reduce the complexity and incomprehensibility they emphasize.
  • Compactification is a concept from physics, particularly in string theory, where extra dimensions are "curled up" or made small enough that they are imperceptible at our scale of reality. While compactified dimensions can add complexity to a universe, they remain finite and constrained within a manageable framework.
  • The beings describe their universe as one that "defies the limits of space and time" implying that their dimensions are vast, unbounded, and fundamentally different from anything we can conceive. Compactifying these dimensions would contradict this idea, as it would limit their extent and make them potentially understandable, which goes against the beings' assertion that their nature is utterly incomprehensible to lower life forms.
  • The infinite nature of these dimensions is what sustains the beings' incomprehensible Universe. If the dimensions were compactified, it would imply a finite, measurable structure that could eventually be understood, even if only theoretically. This would undermine their claim of existing beyond the grasp of any finite-dimensional mind.
  • Conclusion: In this context, compactification would diminish the infinite complexity that defines the beings' existence, making it incompatible with their assertion of being beyond human understanding. Therefore, their infinite dimensions must remain unbounded and expansive, preserving the incomprehensibility they emphasize.
Q3: Wouldn't this contradict the 26-D statement of Cosmic Mom?
A: Short answer, it wouldn't. If you listen to her statement carefully, she says that "Only 26 that matter, I'm sure you'll work it out soon". Implying that out of all the spatio-temporal axes, only 26 matter to her for whatever reason. So this doesn't limit the dimensionality but instead hints that the cosmology might be more vast and expansive.

Q4: Wouldn't these infinite-dimensional aliens being scared of Khyber's dog be considered an anti-feat?
A: That might have been the case if they were at their full size, but they had downsized themselves via their transdimensional vessel which allows them to travel between dimensions and fit into Ben's 3-D world in search of the most powerful weapon of their dimension.

Compatibility with the show:​

  • The original statement about beings existing in an infinite-dimensional universe can be further contextualized by Professor Paradox's observation: "That is the next universe over, I don't like it at all, the physics are terribly counterintuitive." While Paradox may not specifically reference the universe of these beings, his statement provides a broader framework for understanding the nature of different universes in space beyond within the Ben 10 cosmology.
  • Paradox's comment highlights that each universe can operate under its own unique set of physical laws, which may be drastically different from the ones we are familiar with. In this context, the beings' infinite-dimensional universe would naturally possess its own complex physics, far beyond the comprehension of beings from a more conventional universe. The "counterintuitive" physics Paradox reference could mirror the kind of incomprehensibility found in a universe where dimensions are not limited or simplified but instead infinite, leading to a reality that defies all known principles.
  • Thus, while Paradox's statement may not directly reference the infinite-dimensional universe, it reinforces the concept that different universes within the Ben 10 multiverse can have radically different physical laws. This supports the idea that the beings' universe, with its infinite spatio-temporal dimensions, would operate under a set of laws so complex that they are incomprehensible to outsiders, aligning with the beings' description of their own and Universe's existence.

Overall Conclusion:​

These beings inhabit an infinite-dimensional universe, which is a separate universe within the Space Beyond, making the entire cosmology High 1-B. Anything which is currently rated as 1-B, will be changed to High 1-B.

Agree: @Rosa @Success0906 @OMNIVERSAL-KING @REX9097 @Celestial_Scaler25 @Greenshifter @DonkeySlayer06 @Lloydblitzed @Planck69 @Spicy78 @Aolphl
@MrLuk2000 @Qawsedf234
Disagree: @Ezaru
Neutral:
Click to expand...
After reading it carefully, I agree
 
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