Ben 10 Cosmology: High 1-B upgrade

[Hellformer]

You don't want the other staff to formalize an agreement?

I wouldn't mind to wait but eventually the result is going to be the same

 

[Firestorm808]

Plank has agreed on 1B(CountlessD) and DarkModeus stated to agree with anything Firestorm808 says. And Ultima and Q have pretty much left. So we have one for 1B and one for 1C. Can we convince you to agree with 1B(CountlessD) due to dimensions and universes implying to be seperate things?

The premise of the OP focuses on the application of "incalculable."

The OP presents examples of what is "calculable" within the setting. Technology such as the Anlg and the CTB are used to show that the quantity of infinity is "calculable."

It proposes that "incalculable" should refer to a quantity at least "infinite."

In turn, they posit their home universe is an "at least infinite dimension."

 

[Hellformer]

The premise of the OP focuses on the application of "incalculable."

The OP presents examples of what is "calculable" within the setting. Technology such as the Anlg and the CTB are used to show that the quantity of infinity is "calculable."

It proposes that "incalculable" should refer to a quantity at least "infinite."

In turn, they posit their home universe is an "at least infinite dimension."

Yes that's why I think High 1-B makes more sense in this context

 

[Robo432343]

and DarkModeus stated to agree with anything Firestorm808 says.

"I'll here from @Firestorm808 first" does not mean "i'll agree with anything Firestorm says"

 

[Firestorm808]

Summary

The statements:

• "We are beings from an incalculable dimension that defies the limits of space and time."
  • To reiterate, it's not stated that the aliens themselves are incalculable.
• "A glorious universe unfathomable to a primitive mind such as yours"
  • To reiterate, it's not stated that the aliens themselves are unfathomable.
• "My formal denomination and the breadth of my functionality are incomprehensible to a lower life from"
  • The complexity of the AI's technology is what's incomprehensible to Ben and company.
• "The final destination of our heroic voyage on this celebrated Transdimensional vessel is a small, insignificant blue planet in this star system, on which lies our destiny"

Qaws requested the following:

• Spatial Characteristics
  • Unless you can prove that their home universe has spatial constructs to rely on, I don't see a method to qualify it. If they can't be defined by space and time then they're abstract rather than transcendent.
  • If the universe they come from has spatial characteristics then they would have it since they don't exist in a abstract or transcendental state to their own reality.
• Disproving the possibility of being "Abstract" or "BDE"
  • The word "incalculable" could just mean that they are abstract in nature, which would also prevent them from being mathematically proven or comprehended by people like Ben.
  • Conceptually BDE exist already in Ben 10, with people like Paradox being accepted as having that as an ability
  • Incalculable means it can't be mathematically calculated and the explanation being that they lack aspects of space/time
  • Then being imperceivable can be explained with BDE rather than being uncountable infinite-D
• For the above to go from abstract to having a principal foundation of a Von Neumann Hierarchy would mean that you'd have to show that their nature is ultimately bound and quantified by a set theory. Which is a bigger logical leap to me then just "They're abstract due to lacking these characteristics in a franchise where we accept that characters can lack these characteristics."

 

[Hellformer]

Summary

The statements:

• "We are beings from an incalculable dimension that defies the limits of space and time."
  • To reiterate, it's not stated that the aliens themselves are incalculable.

More like the number of dimensions are incalculable to primitive minds of 3-D beings

• "A glorious universe unfathomable to a primitive mind such as yours"
  • To reiterate, it's not stated that the aliens themselves are unfathomable.

Their Universe

• "My formal denomination and the breadth of my functionality are incomprehensible to a lower life from"
  • The complexity of the AI's technology is what's incomprehensible to Ben and company.

Incomprehensible to 3-D beings in general

• "The final destination of our heroic voyage on this celebrated Transdimensional vessel is a small, insignificant blue planet in this star system, on which lies our destiny"

Yes

Qaws requested the following:

• Spatial Characteristics
  • Unless you can prove that their home universe has spatial constructs to rely on, I don't see a method to qualify it. If they can't be defined by space and time then they're abstract rather than transcendent.
  • If the universe they come from has spatial characteristics then they would have it since they don't exist in a abstract or transcendental state to their own reality.
• Disproving the possibility of being "Abstract" or "BDE"
  • The word "incalculable" could just mean that they are abstract in nature, which would also prevent them from being mathematically proven or comprehended by people like Ben.
  • Conceptually BDE exist already in Ben 10, with people like Paradox being accepted as having that as an ability
  • Incalculable means it can't be mathematically calculated and the explanation being that they lack aspects of space/time
  • Then being imperceivable can be explained with BDE rather than being uncountable infinite-D
• For the above to go from abstract to having a principal foundation of a Von Neumann Hierarchy would mean that you'd have to show that their nature is ultimately bound and quantified by a set theory. Which is a bigger logical leap to me then just "They're abstract due to lacking these characteristics in a franchise where we accept that characters can lack these characteristics."

Plain misunderstanding by Qawsedf from what exactly was being proposed. More like fallacious reasoning but I wouldn't care about this since the thread initially didn't focus on Low 1-A.

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

Qaws requested the following:

• Spatial Characteristics
  • Unless you can prove that their home universe has spatial constructs to rely on, I don't see a method to qualify it. If they can't be defined by space and time then they're abstract rather than transcendent.
  • If the universe they come from has spatial characteristics then they would have it since they don't exist in a abstract or transcendental state to their own reality.
• Disproving the possibility of being "Abstract" or "BDE"
  • The word "incalculable" could just mean that they are abstract in nature, which would also prevent them from being mathematically proven or comprehended by people like Ben.
  • Conceptually BDE exist already in Ben 10, with people like Paradox being accepted as having that as an ability
  • Incalculable means it can't be mathematically calculated and the explanation being that they lack aspects of space/time
  • Then being imperceivable can be explained with BDE rather than being uncountable infinite-D
• For the above to go from abstract to having a principal foundation of a Von Neumann Hierarchy would mean that you'd have to show that their nature is ultimately bound and quantified by a set theory. Which is a bigger logical leap to me then just "They're abstract due to lacking these characteristics in a franchise where we accept that characters can lack these characteristics."

Hasn't spatial characteristics already been given?

Each universe following counterintuitive physics. We do know that physics requires spatial characteristics for measurement right?
And since it has already been established that Universes inside space beyond lack spatio-temporal features at some time unless and Annihilarrgh is activated to create spatial and temporal structures, I don't see any reason to assume that the Universe of these aliens would lack it.
Also from the comic itself, those aliens say that their final destination lies on a blue planet in this star system and their main aim was to search the most powerful weapon of Ben's dimension. In order to determine this from their Universe, their tech must be able to detect "position" which is again a spatial characteristic.

It's also consistent with beings like the Contumelia, who's forms are unperceivable and Nalgains, who claim that 26D to be unperceivable by lower beings.

 

[Firestorm808]

Plain misunderstanding by Qawsedf from what exactly was being proposed. More like fallacious reasoning but I wouldn't care about this since the thread initially didn't focus on Low 1-A.

The point is narrowing the scope of how "incalculable" should be applied. Even for High 1-B, you need examples of it being spatial and not abstract.

 

[Hellformer]

The point is narrowing the scope of how "incalculable" should be applied

I think I had explained this in the CRT but instead of trying to counter that, he ended up twisting the proposal

. Even for High 1-B, you need examples of it being spatial and not abstract.

I tried my best to convey this point, but I wouldn't mind it getting rejected.