Ben 10 Cosmology: High 1-B upgrade

[Hellformer]

I'd say his answer also throws out any agreement he might have for high 1-B if he believes it isn't really much at all.

Can't speculate without a straightforward answer to it

 

[DarkMatterEnergy254]

Wouldn't it be better to leave it 1-B, likely High 1-B?

 

[Hellformer]

@Firestorm808
Sorry for pinging but I think you atleast agree with higher dimensional nature of the Universe of these Aliens. Can you please clarify your view on my High 1-B scale? I wouldn't mind if you take some time or ask me to wait

 

[Baabasaplar95]

Uh well then I'll throw Low 1-A out of the box. Let's stick to High 1-B because that seems solid to me.

isnt Ultima said incalculable dimension is meaningless statement?

 

[Hellformer]

isnt Ultima said incalculable dimension is meaningless statement?

Meaningless for requirements of Low 1-A to be precise

 

[Firestorm808]

I guess ultimately my thoughts are the following:

• Conceptually BDE exist already in Ben 10, with people like Paradox being accepted as having that as an ability
• Incalculable means it can't be mathematically calculated and the explanation being that they lack aspects of space/time
• Then being imperceivable can be explained with BDE rather than being uncountable infinite-D

For the above to go from abstract to having a principal foundation of a Von Neumann Hierarchy would mean that you'd have to show that their nature is ultimately bound and quantified by a set theory. Which is a bigger logical leap to me then just "They're abstract due to lacking these characteristics in a franchise where we accept that characters can lack these characteristics".

Would require a statement of superiority over spacetime in general (i.e. "All space and time" [unless the verse qualifies even that], "All (mathematical) dimensions, etc) at minimum.

Thank you both for your time and reiteration of what needs to be provided.

I'm sure the OP will send a new message properly addressing these points when they are able.

 

[Hellformer]

Thank you both for your time and reiteration of what needs to be provided.

I'm sure the OP will send a new message properly addressing these points when they are able.

To clarify, I'm not proposing the idea of Low 1-A Universe but instead High 1-B. Thanks for your response.

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

@Hellformer

Do you have anything to address the earlier request?

"If the universe they come from has spatial characteristics then they would have it."

If the universe they come from has spatial characteristics then they would have it since they don't exist in a abstract or transcendental state to their own reality.

Otherwise you can argue that their home cosmology just lacks those characteristics, making them inapplicable for tiering.

Each universe following counterintuitive physics. We do know that physics requires spatial characteristics for measurement right?
And since it has already been established that Universes inside space beyond lack spatio-temporal features at some time unless and Annihilarrgh is activated to create spatial and temporal structures, I don't see any reason to assume that the Universe of these aliens would lack it.
Also from the comic itself, those aliens say that their final destination lies on a blue planet in this star system and their main aim was to search the most powerful weapon of Ben's dimension. In order to determine this from their Universe, their tech must be able to detect "position" which is again a spatial characteristic.

I guess ultimately my thoughts are the following:

• Conceptually BDE exist already in Ben 10, with people like Paradox being accepted as having that as an ability
• Incalculable means it can't be mathematically calculated and the explanation being that they lack aspects of space/time
• Then being imperceivable can be explained with BDE rather than being uncountable infinite-D

For the above to go from abstract to having a principal foundation of a Von Neumann Hierarchy would mean that you'd have to show that their nature is ultimately bound and quantified by a set theory. Which is a bigger logical leap to me then just "They're abstract due to lacking these characteristics in a franchise where we accept that characters can lack these characteristics".

•Just because character A has an ability doesn't mean that character B has it too. Afterall both the Contumelia and Alien X have HDE. So it is present in the verse as well.
•Incalculable means either impossible to mathematically calculate or to high to mathematically calculate.
•Except being higherD has consistently been shown to make a being unperceivable by lowerD being such as the forms of the Contumelia and the 26D the Nalgians mention. So it is very consistent in verse. Besides Paradox's form is perceivable by Ben and others.

I mean, I think it is.

Oh, well, my mistake there. Sorry about that OP.

Uh well then I'll throw Low 1-A out of the box. Let's stick to High 1-B because that seems solid to me.

Low 1A is no longer the topic of this CRT. It's purely regarding High 1B now.

 

[Hellformer]

•Just because character A has an ability doesn't mean that character B has it too. Afterall both the Contumelia and Alien X have HDE. So it is present in the verse as well.
•Incalculable means either impossible to mathematically calculate or to high to mathematically calculate.
•Except being higherD has consistently been shown to make a being unperceivable by lowerD being such as the forms of the Contumelia and the 26D the Nalgians mention. So it is very consistent in verse. Besides Paradox's form is perceivable by Ben and others.


Low 1A is no longer the topic of this CRT. It's purely regarding High 1B now.

Thank you very much for summarising

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

Thank you very much for summarising

No prop ig. Everybody just seemed to be having multiple different disscussions rather than a singular one. Just wanted to get everybody on the same level.

 

[Greenshifter]

I can argue High 1-B but I think I’ll need some other CRT’s made first

 

[Hellformer]

I can argue High 1-B but I think I’ll need some other CRT’s made first

Which ones?

 

[OMNIVERSAL-KING]

The aliens' dimension "defies the limits of" space and time (No real clarification if that refers to spacetime in general or to a singular universes or set of universe. It also says "defies," which by no means indicates any sort of superiority)

But doesn't beyond means "past limits of something" and defying limits of spacetime pretty much same thing (that same statement calls it unfathomable in comparison to Ben's spatiotemporal universe further backing it up).
Please correct me if I am wrong

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

But doesn't beyond means "past limits of something" and defying limits of spacetime pretty much same thing (that same statement calls it unfathomable in comparison to Ben's spatiotemporal universe further backing it up).
Please correct me if I am wrong

I feel like we should really stick to the CRT and what has been established for now.

I do agree if we were arguing for BDE2 due to Q's arguments of lacking spatiotemporality due to being incalculable in that sense and being past limitation of space time due to sheer size as stated in the CRT. But a whole seperate CRT should be made for this matter if it revolves around a different issue.

 

[Hellformer]

I feel like we should really stick to the CRT and what has been established for now.

I do agree if we were arguing for BDE2 due to Q's arguments of lacking spatiotemporality due to being incalculable in that sense and being past limitation of space time due to sheer size as stated in the CRT. But a whole seperate CRT should be made for this matter if it revolves around a different issue.

Yes I'd suggest to stick to High 1-B

 

[09Kayson09]

I agree

 

[RigelBR7]

I agree

 

[Boy.Line]

Introdução​

Este tópico se concentra principalmente em atualizar a cosmologia de Ben 10 para High 1-B , o que, como resultado, atualizará alguns personagens e armas.

Premissa​

Para provar que a cosmologia de Ben 10 é High 1-B , eu introduziria um novo Universo dentro do Espaço Além que é declarado como sendo de dimensão infinita na história em quadrinhos "Ghost Ship", cuja canonicidade já foi aceita .

Explicação​

Os alienígenas mencionados nesta história em quadrinhos existem em um Universo Annihilarrgh diferente ( onde "Universo" se refere à criação de Annihilarrgh em Ben 10: Omniverse, conforme aceito neste tópico ).

" Somos seres de uma dimensão incalculável que desafia os limites do espaço e do tempo. Um universo glorioso insondável para uma mente primitiva como a sua "

" Minha denominação formal e a amplitude da minha funcionalidade são incompreensíveis para uma vida inferior de "

" O destino final da nossa heróica viagem nesta célebre nave Transdimensional é um pequeno e insignificante planeta azul neste sistema estelar, no qual está o nosso destino "

• Os seres em questão se descrevem como originários de um universo com dimensões espaço-temporais infinitas, uma realidade que excede em muito as limitações do nosso espaço tridimensional e tempo linear. Notavelmente, esses seres separam " universo " de " dimensão " em seu próprio diálogo. Essa distinção enfatiza que a complexidade reside nessas dimensões infinitas, não apenas no universo em si. Nesse universo D infinito, sua existência desafia os limites convencionais de espaço e tempo, permitindo que percebam e interajam com dimensões que são incompreensíveis para as mentes humanas.
• Quando se referem à sua " denominação formal " e " amplitude de funcionalidade ", eles estão aludindo à sua natureza dimensional superior, identidade complexa e vastas capacidades, que são moldadas pelas dimensões infinitas que habitam. Para um ser limitado por uma compreensão limitada do universo, como um humano, esses conceitos seriam totalmente incompreensíveis. Assim, eles enfatizam que sua natureza e habilidades não podem ser compreendidas por " formas de vida inferiores/seres dimensionais inferiores " que são limitados pela estrutura mais simples e primitiva de um universo de dimensão finita (o Universo de Ben tem classificação 6-D).

P1: O termo " incalculável " não se referiria a um número muito grande em vez de infinito?
R: O termo " incalculável " foi usado por esses alienígenas em referência a todos os seres 3-D como Ben, implicando que o número de dimensões em seu universo está além do cálculo para seres 3-D. No entanto, como sabemos que Maltruant (outro ser 3-D) poderia calcular o infinito e o alcance do Universo infinito, ao criar uma cópia de Annihilarrgh e também a bomba-relógio Chronosapien tendo uma configuração de " 1 linha do tempo " e " linhas do tempo infinitas " sugere que o infinito é calculável por seres 3-D e suas armas. Provando, portanto, que o termo incalculável na verdade se refere ao infinito neste contexto.
Edição: Por favor, leia esta resposta novamente, a declaração incalculável não foi descartada aleatoriamente, em vez disso, ela tem um contexto, ou seja, algo que não é calculável por seres 3D e, como mostrei provas de que eles são capazes de calcular o infinito, incalculável deve significar infinito neste contexto.

P2: Essas dimensões infinitas não poderiam ser compactadas?
R: No contexto do diálogo dos seres, as infinitas dimensões que eles habitam não podem ser compactadas porque isso reduziria a complexidade e a incompreensibilidade que elas enfatizam.

• Compactificação é um conceito da física, particularmente na teoria das cordas, onde dimensões extras são "enroladas" ou tornadas pequenas o suficiente para que sejam imperceptíveis em nossa escala de realidade. Embora dimensões compactadas possam adicionar complexidade a um universo, elas permanecem finitas e restritas dentro de uma estrutura administrável.
• Os seres descrevem seu universo como um que " desafia os limites do espaço e do tempo ", o que implica que suas dimensões são vastas, ilimitadas e fundamentalmente diferentes de qualquer coisa que possamos conceber. Compactar essas dimensões contradiria essa ideia, pois limitaria sua extensão e as tornaria potencialmente compreensíveis, o que vai contra a afirmação dos seres de que sua natureza é totalmente incompreensível para formas de vida inferiores.
• A natureza infinita dessas dimensões é o que sustenta o Universo incompreensível dos seres. Se as dimensões fossem compactadas, isso implicaria uma estrutura finita e mensurável que poderia eventualmente ser entendida, mesmo que apenas teoricamente. Isso minaria sua alegação de existir além do alcance de qualquer mente finita-dimensional.
• Conclusão: Neste contexto, a compactificação diminuiria a complexidade infinita que define a existência dos seres, tornando-a incompatível com sua afirmação de estar além da compreensão humana. Portanto, suas dimensões infinitas devem permanecer ilimitadas e expansivas, preservando a incompreensibilidade que enfatizam.

Q3: Isso não contradiria a declaração 26-D da Mãe Cósmica?
R: Resposta curta, não seria. Se você ouvir a declaração dela com cuidado, ela diz que " Só 26 importam , tenho certeza que você vai resolver isso em breve ". Implicando que de todos os eixos espaço-temporais, apenas 26 importam para ela por qualquer razão. Então isso não limita a dimensionalidade, mas sugere que a cosmologia pode ser mais vasta e expansiva.

P4: Esses alienígenas de dimensões infinitas terem medo do cachorro de Khyber não seriam considerados um anti-feito?
R: Isso poderia ter acontecido se eles estivessem em seu tamanho máximo, mas eles diminuíram de tamanho por meio de sua nave transdimensional, o que lhes permite viajar entre dimensões e se encaixar no mundo 3D de Ben em busca da arma mais poderosa de sua dimensão .

Compatibilidade com o programa:​

• A declaração original sobre seres que existem em um universo de dimensão infinita pode ser ainda mais contextualizada pela observação do Professor Paradoxo: " Esse é o próximo universo, não gosto nem um pouco, a física é terrivelmente contraintuitiva. " Embora Paradoxo possa não fazer referência específica ao universo desses seres, sua declaração fornece uma estrutura mais ampla para entender a natureza de diferentes universos no espaço além da cosmologia de Ben 10.
• O comentário de Paradox destaca que cada universo pode operar sob seu próprio conjunto único de leis físicas, que podem ser drasticamente diferentes daquelas com as quais estamos familiarizados. Neste contexto, o universo de dimensão infinita dos seres naturalmente possuiria sua própria física complexa, muito além da compreensão de seres de um universo mais convencional. A referência da física " contraintuitiva " de Paradox poderia espelhar o tipo de incompreensibilidade encontrada em um universo onde as dimensões não são limitadas ou simplificadas, mas sim infinitas, levando a uma realidade que desafia todos os princípios conhecidos.
• Assim, embora a declaração de Paradox possa não fazer referência direta ao universo de dimensão infinita, ela reforça o conceito de que universos diferentes dentro do multiverso Ben 10 podem ter leis físicas radicalmente diferentes . Isso apoia a ideia de que o universo dos seres, com suas infinitas dimensões espaço-temporais, operaria sob um conjunto de leis tão complexas que são incompreensíveis para pessoas de fora, alinhando-se com a descrição dos seres de sua própria existência e da existência do Universo.

Conclusão geral:​

Esses seres habitam um universo de dimensão infinita, que é um universo separado dentro do Espaço Além, tornando toda a cosmologia High 1-B . Qualquer coisa que atualmente seja classificada como 1-B , será alterada para High 1-B .

Concordo: @Rosa @Success0906 @OMNIVERSAL-KING @REX9097 @Celestial_Scaler25 @Greenshifter @DonkeySlayer06 @Lloydblitzed @Planck69 (Countelss 1-B) @Spicy78 [USUÁRIO=34340]@Aolphl[/USUÁRIO]
Discordo:
Neutro:

Let me see if I understand, you're basing your assumption of a higher infinity on the citation about the comprehension of infinity?

I think that doesn't really work, since as you mentioned, Maltruant could calculate the reach of the Universe as a 3D being, but at the same time, infinite timelines don't suggest that infinity is calculable—no one has counted every timeline for this.

Counterpoint: even though other aliens say it's incalculable, it's not the 'same' alien who made the original citation. The comprehension or perception is different; this doesn't imply superiority without context. If it had been cited by Maltruant himself, I would accept it, but since it's from other beings who are just 'important' between dimensions, I disagree.

 

[Hellformer]

Let me see if I understand, you're basing your assumption of a higher infinity on the citation about the comprehension of infinity?

I think that doesn't really work, since as you mentioned, Maltruant could calculate the reach of the Universe as a 3D being, but at the same time, infinite timelines don't suggest that infinity is calculable—no one has counted every timeline for this.

The Chronosapien time bomb made by Maltruant literally has choices whether how many timelines the User can erase. Currently there are an uncountably infinite timelines which accepted.

Counterpoint: even though other aliens say it's incalculable, it's not the 'same' alien who made the original citation. The comprehension or perception is different; this doesn't imply superiority without context. If it had been cited by Maltruant himself, I would accept it, but since it's from other beings who are just 'important' between dimensions,

Their tech call 3-D beings as a lower life forms and the aliens say something similar, i.e. their Universe is unfathomable to primitive mind of 3-D beings. So technically it would include every 3 dimensional being and their technology as well.

I disagree.

No problem, you're free to disagree

 

[Ezaru]

"An incalcuable dimension"

and

"a dimension with an uncalcuable number of spacial dimensions"

Are not the same thing

 

[Hellformer]

"An incalcuable dimension"

and

"a dimension with an uncalcuable number of spacial dimensions"

Are not the same thing

The term Dimension is separated from Universe in their own dialogue. Otherwise incalculable Universe would make zero sense. Kindly read the explanation in the OP so that it doesn't become repetitive for me.

 

[Firestorm808]

Yes I'd suggest to stick to High 1-B

Do you have other statements that suggests their home being "uncountably" higher?

As elaborated by Ultima, the prior statements don't imply that quantity.

 

[Hellformer]

Do you have other statements that suggests their home being "uncountably" higher?

Yes, the phrase "My formal denomination and breadth of my functionality are incomprehensible to a lower life form" alludes to a higher-dimensional nature. This statement suggests that the aliens have characteristics or a form of existence that is beyond the understanding of lower-dimensional beings which is consistent with them saying that their Universe is unfathomable to primitive mind of 3-D beings.
In the context of higher-dimensional beings, their "formal denomination" (i.e., their true identity or name) and the "breadth of their functionality" (i.e., their abilities or actions) would be so complex and vast that a lower-dimensional being (such as a 3-D being) would be unable to fully comprehend them. This aligns with the idea that higher-dimensional entities operate in ways that are not easily perceived or understood by beings constrained to fewer dimensions.

And lastly as said by you, the term transdimensional in this context must refer to them travelling from a N-D realm to 3-D realm.

As elaborated by Ultima, the prior statements don't imply that quantity.

Ultima wrote that as in a requirement for Low 1-A

Would require a statement of superiority over spacetime in general (i.e. "All space and time" [unless the verse qualifies even that], "All (mathematical) dimensions, etc) at minimum. This is wholly absent here, seeing as all that's stated is:

 

[REX9097]

Bump

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

Do you have other statements that suggests their home being "uncountably" higher?

As elaborated by Ultima, the prior statements don't imply that quantity.

Yes, the phrase "My formal denomination and breadth of my functionality are incomprehensible to a lower life form" alludes to a higher-dimensional nature. This statement suggests that the aliens have characteristics or a form of existence that is beyond the understanding of lower-dimensional beings which is consistent with them saying that their Universe is unfathomable to primitive mind of 3-D beings.
In the context of higher-dimensional beings, their "formal denomination" (i.e., their true identity or name) and the "breadth of their functionality" (i.e., their abilities or actions) would be so complex and vast that a lower-dimensional being (such as a 3-D being) would be unable to fully comprehend them. This aligns with the idea that higher-dimensional entities operate in ways that are not easily perceived or understood by beings constrained to fewer dimensions.

And lastly as said by you, the term transdimensional in this context must refer to them travelling from a N-D realm to 3-D realm.

As elaborated by Ultima, the prior statements don't imply that quantity.

Ultima wrote that as in a requirement for Low 1-A

Would require a statement of superiority over spacetime in general (i.e. "All space and time" [unless the verse qualifies even that], "All (mathematical) dimensions, etc) at minimum. This is wholly absent here, seeing as all that's stated is:

 

[Hellformer]

He might be busy @Celestial_Scaler25

 

[Firestorm808]

Yes, the phrase "My formal denomination and breadth of my functionality are incomprehensible to a lower life form" alludes to a higher-dimensional nature. This statement suggests that the aliens have characteristics or a form of existence that is beyond the understanding of lower-dimensional beings which is consistent with them saying that their Universe is unfathomable to primitive mind of 3-D beings.
In the context of higher-dimensional beings, their "formal denomination" (i.e., their true identity or name) and the "breadth of their functionality" (i.e., their abilities or actions) would be so complex and vast that a lower-dimensional being (such as a 3-D being) would be unable to fully comprehend them. This aligns with the idea that higher-dimensional entities operate in ways that are not easily perceived or understood by beings constrained to fewer dimensions.

And lastly as said by you, the term transdimensional in this context must refer to them travelling from a N-D realm to 3-D realm.

Ultima wrote that as in a requirement for Low 1-A

I can take their universe as being some unknown levels higher than Ben's Universe, but I wouldn't consider the statements provided for "infinite-dimensional" or "uncountably infinite."

 

[Hellformer]

I can take their universe as being some unknown levels higher than Ben's Universe, but I wouldn't consider the statements provided for "infinite-dimensional" or "uncountably infinite."

Possibly?

 

[Firestorm808]

Possibly?

At least "Ben's Universe +1", possibly higher.

Note: This is without using any context of what "Incalculable" may mean.

 

[Hellformer]

At least "Ben's Universe +1", possibly higher.

Well then this CRT can be closed. Thanks for your input.

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

Don't they emphasize the difference between dimension and universe in the scan?

Google Image Result for https://i.redd.it/does-anybody-know-what-ben-10-comic-issue-is-this-v0-2k0c0rg7q4ub1.jpg?s=ac527ebe0747efa4d242c0ec5ecef63c8f787b59

 

[Hellformer]

Don't they emphasize the difference between dimension and universe in the scan?

Google Image Result for https://i.redd.it/does-anybody-know-what-ben-10-comic-issue-is-this-v0-2k0c0rg7q4ub1.jpg?s=ac527ebe0747efa4d242c0ec5ecef63c8f787b59

I mean they do but can't think of anything if the staffs don't agree.

 

[Firestorm808]

Well then this CRT can be closed. Thanks for your input.

You don't want the other staff to formalize an agreement?

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

You don't want the other staff to formalize an agreement?

Plank has agreed on 1B(CountlessD) and DarkModeus stated to agree with anything Firestorm808 says. And Ultima and Q have pretty much left. So we have one for 1B and one for 1C. Can we convince you to agree with 1B(CountlessD) due to dimensions and universes implying to be seperate things?

 

[Hellformer]

You don't want the other staff to formalize an agreement?

I wouldn't mind to wait but eventually the result is going to be the same

 

[Firestorm808]

Plank has agreed on 1B(CountlessD) and DarkModeus stated to agree with anything Firestorm808 says. And Ultima and Q have pretty much left. So we have one for 1B and one for 1C. Can we convince you to agree with 1B(CountlessD) due to dimensions and universes implying to be seperate things?

The premise of the OP focuses on the application of "incalculable."

The OP presents examples of what is "calculable" within the setting. Technology such as the Anlg and the CTB are used to show that the quantity of infinity is "calculable."

It proposes that "incalculable" should refer to a quantity at least "infinite."

In turn, they posit their home universe is an "at least infinite dimension."

 

[Hellformer]

The premise of the OP focuses on the application of "incalculable."

The OP presents examples of what is "calculable" within the setting. Technology such as the Anlg and the CTB are used to show that the quantity of infinity is "calculable."

It proposes that "incalculable" should refer to a quantity at least "infinite."

In turn, they posit their home universe is an "at least infinite dimension."

Yes that's why I think High 1-B makes more sense in this context

 

[Robo432343]

and DarkModeus stated to agree with anything Firestorm808 says.

"I'll here from @Firestorm808 first" does not mean "i'll agree with anything Firestorm says"

 

[Firestorm808]

Summary

The statements:

• "We are beings from an incalculable dimension that defies the limits of space and time."
  • To reiterate, it's not stated that the aliens themselves are incalculable.
• "A glorious universe unfathomable to a primitive mind such as yours"
  • To reiterate, it's not stated that the aliens themselves are unfathomable.
• "My formal denomination and the breadth of my functionality are incomprehensible to a lower life from"
  • The complexity of the AI's technology is what's incomprehensible to Ben and company.
• "The final destination of our heroic voyage on this celebrated Transdimensional vessel is a small, insignificant blue planet in this star system, on which lies our destiny"

Qaws requested the following:

• Spatial Characteristics
  • Unless you can prove that their home universe has spatial constructs to rely on, I don't see a method to qualify it. If they can't be defined by space and time then they're abstract rather than transcendent.
  • If the universe they come from has spatial characteristics then they would have it since they don't exist in a abstract or transcendental state to their own reality.
• Disproving the possibility of being "Abstract" or "BDE"
  • The word "incalculable" could just mean that they are abstract in nature, which would also prevent them from being mathematically proven or comprehended by people like Ben.
  • Conceptually BDE exist already in Ben 10, with people like Paradox being accepted as having that as an ability
  • Incalculable means it can't be mathematically calculated and the explanation being that they lack aspects of space/time
  • Then being imperceivable can be explained with BDE rather than being uncountable infinite-D
• For the above to go from abstract to having a principal foundation of a Von Neumann Hierarchy would mean that you'd have to show that their nature is ultimately bound and quantified by a set theory. Which is a bigger logical leap to me then just "They're abstract due to lacking these characteristics in a franchise where we accept that characters can lack these characteristics."

 

[Hellformer]

Summary

The statements:

• "We are beings from an incalculable dimension that defies the limits of space and time."
  • To reiterate, it's not stated that the aliens themselves are incalculable.

More like the number of dimensions are incalculable to primitive minds of 3-D beings

• "A glorious universe unfathomable to a primitive mind such as yours"
  • To reiterate, it's not stated that the aliens themselves are unfathomable.

Their Universe

• "My formal denomination and the breadth of my functionality are incomprehensible to a lower life from"
  • The complexity of the AI's technology is what's incomprehensible to Ben and company.

Incomprehensible to 3-D beings in general

• "The final destination of our heroic voyage on this celebrated Transdimensional vessel is a small, insignificant blue planet in this star system, on which lies our destiny"

Yes

Qaws requested the following:

• Spatial Characteristics
  • Unless you can prove that their home universe has spatial constructs to rely on, I don't see a method to qualify it. If they can't be defined by space and time then they're abstract rather than transcendent.
  • If the universe they come from has spatial characteristics then they would have it since they don't exist in a abstract or transcendental state to their own reality.
• Disproving the possibility of being "Abstract" or "BDE"
  • The word "incalculable" could just mean that they are abstract in nature, which would also prevent them from being mathematically proven or comprehended by people like Ben.
  • Conceptually BDE exist already in Ben 10, with people like Paradox being accepted as having that as an ability
  • Incalculable means it can't be mathematically calculated and the explanation being that they lack aspects of space/time
  • Then being imperceivable can be explained with BDE rather than being uncountable infinite-D
• For the above to go from abstract to having a principal foundation of a Von Neumann Hierarchy would mean that you'd have to show that their nature is ultimately bound and quantified by a set theory. Which is a bigger logical leap to me then just "They're abstract due to lacking these characteristics in a franchise where we accept that characters can lack these characteristics."

Plain misunderstanding by Qawsedf from what exactly was being proposed. More like fallacious reasoning but I wouldn't care about this since the thread initially didn't focus on Low 1-A.