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But qawsed said Low 1-A is more suitable for that description.
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Ben 10 Cosmology: High 1-B upgrade
- Thread starter Hellformer
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Hellformer
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He hasn't given any explicit opinion so I'd rather wait for Firestorm who will atleast suggest something.
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I will get back to you on that.
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???
I've been explicit with both. My first comment was this
The High 1-B end has never been correct in my view. It's either nothing (which I think it is) or it's Low 1-A.
Hellformer
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I mean explicit opinion to accept either High 1-B or Low 1-A, you said its not a feat at all. Thanks for your input btw
Celestial_Scaler25
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L1A makes more sense.
Hellformer confirmed it to be via size in his CRT due to in being unperceivable by lower beings.
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In your view, what would you like the OP to present to give the statements more substance?
Hellformer
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Keeping his POV aside, what's your own view on this?
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Unless you can prove that their home universe has spatial constructs to rely on, I don't see a method to qualify it. If they can't be defined by space and time then they're abstract rather than transcendent.
Celestial_Scaler25
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Or they simply lack spatiotemporality as a whole and are just unperceivable due to pure size similarly to the 26D the Nalgians spoke of. As abstract/non physical beings can still possess dimensionality.
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To clarify, you are asking for examples of higher-d spaces of the "Universe."
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If the universe they come from has spatial characteristics then they would have it since they don't exist in a abstract or transcendental state to their own reality.
Otherwise you can argue that their home cosmology just lacks those characteristics, making them inapplicable for tiering.
That would mean they're abstract. If they don't occupy a physical space, they can't have dimensional volume.
Celestial_Scaler25
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There is an entire thing called Beyond Dimensional Existence that covers this topic well of having no spatiotemporality and being larger than space time as a whole. If their dimension lacks spatiotemporal coordinates and is supposed unperceivable via sheer sizes as mentioned in Hellformer's CRT then I don't fully understand the the issue here.
Quote;
As a default, statements of being "above dimensions" are set at Low 1-A, and the same is applied to statements indicating superiority over "All of space and time," and similar.
Beyond-Dimensional Existence
Beyond-Dimensional Existence is the state of existing beyond dimensions. In the majority of cases, this will be referring to characters who are timeless and spaceless. That is to say: A "beyond-dimensional" character does not take up any volume whatsoever, nor does it occupy a position in...
vsbattles.fandom.com
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I have the same opinion as Planck
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That's my thread before ultima new tiering system. It close due to change of High 1-B - 0 tiering system.
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I mean
Which is what I said. They have no dimensions, meaning they cannot be calculated. Meaning they're abstract and wouldn't be Low 1-A automatically.
Celestial_Scaler25
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Apologies but this makes no sense. BDE characters have no dimensions or position in spacetime and yet they are tierable. They are unperceivable by lower beings just like the 26D the Nalgians mention and as explained in the CRT and surpass the limitations of space and time just like a BDE type 2 being/space due to sheer size as explained on the page. I don't see how them being abstract contradicts this.
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Please hold off on that train of thought for now. It can be addressed later.
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@Hellformer
Do you have anything to address the earlier request?
"If the universe they come from has spatial characteristics then they would have it."
Do you have anything to address the earlier request?
"If the universe they come from has spatial characteristics then they would have it."
Hellformer
He/Him- 1,512
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Each universe following counterintuitive physics. We do know that physics requires spatial characteristics for measurement right?
And since it has already been established that Universes inside space beyond lack spatio-temporal features at some time unless and Annihilarrgh is activated to create spatial and temporal structures, I don't see any reason to assume that the Universe of these aliens would lack it.
Also from the comic itself, those aliens say that their final destination lies on a blue planet in this star system and their main aim was to search the most powerful weapon of Ben's dimension. In order to determine this from their Universe, their tech must be able to detect "position" which is again a spatial characteristic.
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Hellformer
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@Firestorm808 Are you convinced with this?
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To my understanding of the OP, the proposal is the following:
The aliens use a transdimensional vessel to go from their incalculable/unfathomable/incomprehensible Universe to Ben's Home Dimension.
Typically, the standard assumption for something transdimensional is between parallel dimensions. However, we are given more context in this case. We know that the aliens come from a higher and more complex dimension than Earth's.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the question you posit is: Does the Alien's Universe use quantitative or qualitative spatial characteristics?
The low-end assumption of a transdimensional vessel would be that the start and end destinations would be of the same dimensional type, transporting from one spacial dimension to another. The starting point is at one N-D spatial dimension, then transporting to a different 3-D spatial dimension.
An earlier use of the term also applied to the higher dimensions in Ben's Universe. "some unfathomable transdimensional creature."
Otherwise, the implication is that they are moving from one "qualitative" (1-A) higher dimension to a lower "quantitative" 3-D spacial dimension.
The lower-end interpretation would be that both ends are quantitative spatial dimensions.
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What scale will they get. High 1-B, Low 1-A or 1-A. I'm so confusing right now.
Hellformer
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This makes sense to me. Can you ask DDM and Planck69 if they agree with this?
Hellformer
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Low 1-A
Hellformer
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Firestorm is waiting for Qawsedf's response
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Yes, it is neutral for High 1-B, but if this goes towards Low 1-A, I can give a clearer answer. Is there a structure/collection that affects all possible dimensional spaces (accessible or inaccessible)? Can you show me these? What does he mean by every space-time? This information is not solid enough. These need to be explained in more detail.
Hellformer
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Kindly wait for Firestorm and Qawsedf to discuss this and reach a conclusion after which you can get a clear answer
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I will be waiting but h1b level seems more suitable at best.
Hellformer
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Kindly read question 1 of the CRT
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As I said, I won't get involved in h1b or 1b (countless) stuff. Even if some parts of it seem illogical. Whatever you want. But Low 1-A... man, that would be really bad.
Hellformer
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As I said, wait for qawsedf to reply Firestorm's comment and clear things up, so need to rush anything.
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Good lu
Good Lucky my bro
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The dimensions can't be qualitative, since they're built on a lower structure. The fact you can rise "up" the ladder to a higher state automatically prevents it from being 1-A, since you require a complete separation there.
The argument given by the OP is that the aliens can't be calculated dimension wise, so they have an uncountable infinite number of dimensions and should be High 1-B to Low 1-A. I'm saying that the world incalculable could just be them being abstract in nature, which would also prevent them from being mathematically proven or comprehended by people like Ben.
In neither case would the Aliens or Space-Beyond be 1-A.
OMNIVERSAL-KING
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Changing my vote from High 1-B to L1-A
OMNIVERSAL-KING
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Doesn't this also sound good ?
I mean if someone agrees that their realm being incalculable means that their realm is abstract then we can combine it with the statment of "defying spatiotemporality" and call it "L1-A to 1-A" (if their realm is abstract with being beyond spatiotemporality then it's lack of continuity)
Tho L1-A is most reasonable here
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Reading through the statement, nothing suggest it's talking about dimensionality, it talks about being from an incalculable dimension but doesn't say that their universe contains uncountable dimensions. They even said it's an unfathomable universe in the next line. The statement of Ben being a lower life form doesn't indicate dimensionality, could just be racism.
So I agree with Quawsfed, the statement either gives a low 1-A rating, via being incalculable/unfathonable to lower life forms or no rating at all. But in no way does the statement imply the universe is infinite dimensional, or even relates to dimensionality.
So I agree with Quawsfed, the statement either gives a low 1-A rating, via being incalculable/unfathonable to lower life forms or no rating at all. But in no way does the statement imply the universe is infinite dimensional, or even relates to dimensionality.
Hellformer
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