Ben 10 - At least 2-B, Possibly 2-A Universe Structure Proposal

[Zamasu_Chan]

I see no contradiction tho.

UA: "This is the space beyond"
OV: "This is not a place"

Clearly two different scenarios dude. I clealy showed the difference between what a timeline looks like and what a universe looks like.

I didn't said timeloop = time stream tho. No one ever will. I said everything is predecided so alien x can make adjustments as per so that events do not get altered.

Then this point is irrelevant and doesn’t prove that universes are timelines in the slightest. There's a visual and eventful difference. between the two

Duncan first statement is just that Rex dimension and ben dimension are two separate spacetime continuum's like legerdomain or dimension 12 not branched timelines. That's all.

He didn’t say that, I quoted what he said. His answer implies they're not timelines yet his second sentence implies they're timelines because he calls them "histories". Just means that Duncan made a statement with grammatical errors, creating lose interpretations. Just another reason why WoG is hogwash.

 

[Reiner04]

UA: "This is the space beyond"
OV: "This is not a place"

Clearly two different scenarios dude. I clealy showed the difference between what a timeline looks like and what a universe looks like.

"This is not a place"
Because all of them has been destroyed?
Timeline and universe is 2 different things, even as per our standards, you don't have to prove it.

Then this point is irrelevant and doesn’t prove that universes are timelines in the slightest. There's a visual and eventful difference. between the two

He didn’t say that, I quoted what he said. His answer implies they're not timelines yet his second sentence implies they're timelines because he calls them "histories". Just means that Duncan made a statement with grammatical errors, creating lose interpretations. Just another reason why WoG is hogwash.

"Two separate time times with Two seprate histories" to the question if they're alternate timelines. Pretty clear what he is implying and grammatical error is irrelevant as Many people can do and it doesn't changes the essence of the answer.

 

[Reiner04]

One event was going outside the universe and other was travelling in the past in time. These 2 different things can have different visual depictions and will be fine as the dimensions they're moving in is getting changed. It's just overthinking that it is implying anything beyond time travel and going outside the universe.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

"This is not a place"
Because all of them has been destroyed?
Timeline and universe is 2 different things, even as per our standards, you don't have to prove it.

If you agree then why are you arguing with me? This point was directed at Firestorm.

"Two separate time times with Two seprate histories" to the question if they're alternate timelines. Pretty clear what he is implying and grammatical error is irrelevant as Many people can do and it doesn't changes the essence of the answer.

Interpret it how you want. The bad grammer just makes the comprehension worse. This doesn’t even help your case since you agree that the timestream ≠ universes. Especially when your whole argument is flimsy.

One event was going outside the universe and other was travelling in the past in time. These 2 different things can have different visual depictions and will be fine as the dimensions they're moving in is getting changed. It's just overthinking that it is implying anything beyond time travel and going outside the universe.

It's not overthinking. LMFAO! It's blatant observation. My whole point is that the timestream branches are timelines while the universes are shown as a collection of stars. You just said you agreed that universes and timelines aren’t the same dude

 

[Reiner04]

Everyone agrees that universes and timelines aren't treated same always as it depends on if time dimension is involved, okay then if that's all you wanted to say. I would have agreed to it even if I haven't watched the ben 10 or you have not provided me any evidence at all, unless evidence is provided that universe they're talking about involves time dimension at the moment they're making statement.

 

[Firestorm808]

This is wrong. Firstly, when NW Ben asks where they are, Paradox says there no need to ask where they are because it's not a place, therefore he can’t answer the question. Whereas in UA, Paradox calls it the space beyond without doubt. Secondly, those are not real timelines, just a visual depiction of them so NW Ben could understand.
Later in the series we see the actual timestream and it looks like a traditional branched timeline, not a universe like in UA or the end of Omniverse.

Outside of Entire Timestream - Omniverse​

The above image is the view of the branching timestream from an outside timeline perspective. No universes or previously visited dimensions exist outside it. Professor Paradox has never seen this perspective as he is unable to leave the timestream. The scenes below occur within the timestream but outside universes.

Outside of the Universe - Ultimate Alien​

The above image is the view of "the space beyond" the universe. In this scene, they only show us two universes depicted as clusters in the black void. You can consider this the space outside/between universes from a present perspective.

Outside of the Universe - Omniverse​

After the CTB goes off, Paradox takes Ben outside the universe. While he may say that this location is not a place, it is still a location outside the universe or known dimensions but within the timestream as he is unable to leave it. Here we see numerous clusters. Each cluster represents a universe, and those clusters are destroyed, bringing us to a black void.

Since all other universes were destroyed, it is reasonable to say that he is located outside/between universes from a present perspective but still within the timestream.

If not here, where else could Paradox have taken him?

At the end of the day, the point is the use of clusters to represent universes and their associated dimensions from different branches in the present perspective.

 

[Alexander]

Can someone explain me now what?

 

[Aachintya31]

Can someone explain me now what?

what

 

[Alexander]

what

What?

 

[Reiner04]

Can someone explain me now what?

Nothing much, zamasu chan just reminded us that universes and timelines are treated differently which everyone agrees with on vs battle about every verse unless more info. He probably trying to form a argument based on this standard.

 

[Alexander]

Nothing much, zamasu chan just reminded us that universes and timelines are treated differently which everyone agrees with on vs battle about every verse unless more info. He probably trying to form a argument based on this standard.

Mmm

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Outside of Entire Timestream - Omniverse​

The above image is the view of the branching timestream from an outside timeline perspective. No universes or previously visited dimensions exist outside it. Professor Paradox has never seen this perspective as he is unable to leave the timestream. The scenes below occur within the timestream but outside universes.

Yes, the timestream is made up of branching timelines. However, Paradox being unable to leave it is something I'll touch up upon in the next point.

Outside of the Universe - Ultimate Alien​

The above image is the view of "the space beyond" the universe. In this scene, they only show us two universes depicted as clusters in the black void. You can consider this the space outside/between universes from a present perspective.

Ok sure.

Outside of the Universe - Omniverse​

After the CTB goes off, Paradox takes Ben outside the universe. While he may say that this location is not a place, it is still a location outside the universe or known dimensions but within the timestream as he is unable to leave it. Here we see numerous clusters. Each cluster represents a universe, and those clusters are destroyed, bringing us to a black void.

Firstly, look at the text I bolded. Explain how Paradox and Ben are within the timestream that was just destroyed. Again, how are they inside the branching timelines after Vilgax just destroyed them. Secondly, that's not a physical multiverse but a mere depiction. What we see how timelines and universes look on separate occasions >>> a depiction of what they might look like. Those are simply projections Paradox is creating for NW Ben to understand.

Since all other universes were destroyed, it is reasonable to say that he is located outside/between universes from a present perspective but still within the timestream.

You're asserting the timestream was untouched, which is wrong because the timestream is literally a branching timeline forming the multiverse.

If not here, where else could Paradox have taken him?

It's not a place. There's literally nothing because all other timelines were destroyed .

At the end of the day, the point is the use of clusters to represent universes and their associated dimensions from different branches in the present perspective.

And what you're doing is trying to cherry-pick by using a simplified non-physical slide show over the physical forms of the universes and timelines we see.

 

[Reiner04]

Firstly, look at the text I bolded. Explain how Paradox and Ben are within the timestream that was just destroyed. Again, how are they inside the branching timelines after Vilgax just destroyed them.

No watch ben timeline was still in existence, so there was timestream.

Secondly, that's not a physical multiverse but a mere depiction. What we see how timelines and universes look on separate occasions >>> a depiction of what they might look like. Those are simply projections Paradox is creating for NW Ben to understand.

Supported by UA so it was, denying won't help.

It's not a place. There's literally nothing because all other timelines were destroyed .

No

 

[Reiner04]

Crazy how things are moving, from paradox first appearance on the moon, to Kevin is lying to dimensions means universes to literal visual depictions of multiverse at the pov of time travel and universe travel. Man.

 

[Firestorm808]

Yes, the timestream is made up of branching timelines. However, Paradox being unable to leave it is something I'll touch up upon in the next point.

Ok sure.

Firstly, look at the text I bolded. Explain how Paradox and Ben are within the timestream that was just destroyed. Again, how are they inside the branching timelines after Vilgax just destroyed them. Secondly, that's not a physical multiverse but a mere depiction. What we see how timelines and universes look on separate occasions >>> a depiction of what they might look like. Those are simply projections Paradox is creating for NW Ben to understand.

You're asserting the timestream was untouched, which is wrong because the timestream is literally a branching timeline forming the multiverse.

I never said anything about the timestream being untouched. As Reiner mentioned, the timestream wasn't destroyed in its entirety. I said he is located still within the timestream.

If you are outside the timestream, you can see the actual "line" depiction as shown on the left side of the above image.

However, if you are inside the timestream, you only see the present slice of the timestream as shown on the right side of the above image. The dots are the universes of different branches in the present slice.

It's not a place. There's literally nothing because all other timelines were destroyed .

And what you're doing is trying to cherry-pick by using a simplified non-physical slide show over the physical forms of the universes and timelines we see.

In UA, Paradox shows clusters being actual universes in the present.

In OV, Paradox again shows clusters being universes in the present.

How is that cherry-picking?

 

[Omegabronic]

bump

 

[Forthegood]

Bump

 

[Reiner04]

Since zamasu has left and thread has been opened for more than 2 months, it'll be closed.