BB's hax was nerfed! (CASE SOLVED!)

[TheUnshakableOne]

On a couple of verse threads. I got really confused.

On this thread of Meltlilith vs Yuuki. I was reading through it, and may have, or not have gotten confused.

From this comment on down https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3154160#42

To me, it seemed that it was agreed that BB has hax, and hax resistance to a 1-C (8-D) Scale on that thread.. But not the AP

But on this thread..i was told this.. This happened on this vs thread.. https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3160880#21

""For dimensionality to even matter in the context of a hax being stronger the dimension would have to work in the way that gets it to matter for AP though. If it was deemed an outlier for her to have 1-C AP I don't think you can scale her hax there because it would scale for the same reason her AP would. Avalon doesn't seem to work as a comparison because it's actually listed on pages as Low 1-C.

Higher DImensions aren't always conducive to AP and won't give AP on their own anymore, so you can have that on a page that is below tier 2. Oryx was like that for a while. However, if the dimensions aren't conducive to AP they don't really work for hax either, so this is pretty weird." - Wokista https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3160880#17

This happened on this vs thread.. https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3160880#21

My question is... Does BB have 1-C hax, and Hax resistance without the AP of that tier (To an 8-D scale)..? This is where im confused if she does, or does not...

and did i entirely misunderstand that correctly?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Long story short.

Dimensions in Nasuverse are not the same as dimensions that the wiki gives tier 1 ratings for.

By nature of the growth of the tiering system, any 1-C being is assumed to be capable of destroying a 2-A construct, e.g. an infinite multiverse.

However, this is not how Nasuverse treats higher dimensional beings.

While they are a qualitatively higher order of existence to lesser beings ("Grand Caster" for example states he is a higher dimensional life form when explaining how he is a Grand Servant, and I believe it's mentioned that being a Grand Servant wasn't a matter of power but simply the Saint graph being of a higher order), being a higher dimensional being in Nasuverse or having higher dimensional power does not equate to being able to destroy entire multiverses, and thus cannot be ranked as 1-C by the way the wiki treats higher dimensional beings.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Long story short.

Does BB have higher dimensional hax, and Hax resistance though that can affect say 2-A beings? That is the confusion here.. Its not about her AP tiering, but weather or not her Hax are higher dimensional..

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Hard to say.

Her power is definitely linked to something that can create qualitatively "higher orders" of space 5 times above normal 3D space, but because higher dimensional beings aren't treated as "transcendent multiverse busters" we can't say it's 1-C by the wiki's standards

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Isn't that sentence a bit contradictory...????

 

[Wokistan]

They don't actually need to have range for the rating though. If they're portrayed as qualitatively superior or ever increasing infinities that's more the Crux of dimensions as used for tiering. Idk if this is an outlier or what but them being limited in range doesn't really disqualify tiering if superiority is established.

Either way, whatever her rating is would end up matching up to her hax. If the dimensions aren't accepted as AP dimensions I don't tjith they can be used to say that the hax is unfathomably more powerful either.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Range aside, higher dimensional beings are never treated like beings who could harm timeline busters

 

[Wokistan]

That would contradict dimensions being portrayed as being qualitatively superior, meaning their hax doesn't become "1-C hax" or whatever.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

It would contradict them being superior by this wiki's standards.

Because in universe, they are definitely qualitatively superior, it's outright pointed out it's not a matter of merely sheer power

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

So getting straight to the point... BB's Hax, and her Hax resistance isn't Tier 2-C or higher? Her hax, and Hax resistance is Baseline Low 2-C at best..?

 

[Wokistan]

If they're stated one thing but then portrayed as unable to harm people below their dimensional state, then the statement that their dimensional state lends them some special superiority would not be supported by what actually happens by the wikis standard or that one. What happens takes precedence over what is stated barring context specific reasons that the statements would be more reliable.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Beings referred to as higher dimensional in the verse don't usually have trouble hurting people who would be lower dimensional in comparison

 

[Wokistan]

Monarch just said they were portrayed as unable to hurt timeline Busters and made no mention of said timeline Busters being higher dimensional themselves.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

So getting straight to the point... BB's Hax, and her Hax resistance isn't Tier 2-C or higher? Her hax, and Hax resistance is Baseline Low 2-C at best..?

This isn't about them being Higher dimensional and getting harmed by lower dimesionnal beings.. or the reverse... This is about "What tier is her hax, and Hax resistance?" Are they only 3-D? low end 4-D?

 

[Paul_Frank]

Assuming you meant 1-C and not 2-C then no it is likely not 1-C

If you meant 2-C then probably since it should at least scale to her since she merged with an 8d infinite universe, even if we disregard the 8d part there is still the infinite universe part

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

"Merging with an 8D infinite space."

that still sounds weird.. i think for the sake of confusion we shouldn't phrase it in such a way because that is what confused me... Saying its "8D" or "8th dimensinal" is what confused me...

 

[Paul_Frank]

I mean that's what it is though

It's an 8d thing, the only reason it's not 1-C is because as Monarch said, higher d beings in the verse aren't portrayed as casual 2-A multiverse busters which causes them not to receive that rating

The main reasons for higher d beings not being multiverse busters are Akasha and the fact that most of them wouldn't have a reason to anyway so that's not really fair but meh

 

[Wokistan]

If BB is to be rated as low 2-C then 4D potency for her things would make sense.

Also though, can't them being unable to affect timelines just be low ends? Even The Beyonders were stated to be bound by a timeline and yet due to more stuff supporting 1-A, they scale there. (Comics scaling is weird but still)

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

You don't have to be a casual multiverse buster to be 8-D

That is still really confusing for other new people coming into the site. i might understand it now, but there is going to be more people confused at this rate.

its a paradox.. or a contradiction to explicitly say its 8D, when in reality we are saying its not. "8th dimensional" is just a name basically...

There was also people on another thread making it seem like something amazingly superior which also made me confused..

 

[Ionliosite]

Arrowverse Mxy is 5D but isn't High 2-A due to the lack of feats. So I don't see why we can't apply the same logic here.

 

[Wokistan]

His hax isn't considered 5D haxthat overpowers all resistances 4D and below.

 

[Wokistan]

Basically what I am saying: the means by which dimensions are used to decree that one hax is superior to another hax are the same means by which AP ratings High 2-A and above come from. If dimensions are deemed inapplicable for one of them, they should not be used for the other because you'd be saying the same reasons suddenly work now.

 

[John985]

The higher dimensional BB was accepter here. Not sure where the 8D though.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

The higher dimensional BB was accepter here. Not sure where the 8D though.

on a thread of Meltlilith vs yuuki.. it seemd like people were using the arguement of 8D hax and hax resistance.. which is why i was confused...

 

[John985]

I know, I also question where the 8D was accepted. Iapitus said that it was accepted in another thread, don't know where though.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Monarch just said they were portrayed as unable to hurt timeline Busters and made no mention of said timeline Busters being higher dimensional themselves.

Well that was incorrect on my part seeing as we actually have some low 2-Cs now

 

[Ionliosite]

The higher dimensional BB was accepter here. Not sure where the 8D though.

What I got from that thread is that BB has an 8-D mind and a little bit of 8-D hax.

 

[John985]

Yeah it was a bit of both, but it was more on Higher Dimensional mind not Hax.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

im reading something about type 9 immortality for BB too on that thread...

but im not done reading it all the way and because i work tomorrow my time is very limited

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

"It's just hax. In the same way HDM's The Authority is only 7-A despite his 8-D hax and Doom is only tier 2 with Galactus and a Cosmic Cube's powers, yet has High 1-Btechnology." - Kepekley23 https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1484106#132

"Well then

It's 8 D: Aizenishere, ThisIsMySwagPack, Iapitus

It's not 8 D: Kaltias

Acknowledge both possibilities: Promestein, Monarch Laciel, Matthew Schroder, J-Man Requiem

I don't know the others so comment and I'll edit it in" - Monarch Laciel https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1484106#176

Every other comment below this was people agreeing to the low end

but that is all i gathered out of that thread.. i don't see where 8D hax, or hax resistance was agreed upon....

but typ 9 immortality wasn't ever added to her profile..

 

[John985]

The one who actually accepted the higher dimension manipulation is Azathoth. He even said this

"^This is all ludicrously clear "character's mind exists in a higher level of reality" shit. Unless the character has extremely bad anti-feats when it comes to mindhax resistance, I have no idea why this part is even being argued."

Type 9 was rejected by Ram.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I thought Azathoth was saying he agrees with the 4D mind hax resistance, and not the 8D all haxes and Hax resistance??

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

and if were accepting that hte 8D spaces aren't actually real 8 spatial dimensions of a higher dimenson but something else entirely..

i think higher dimensional manipualton should be removed as its contradictory...

 

[John985]

I thought Azathoth was saying he agrees with the 4D mind hax resistance, and not the 8D all haxes and Hax resistance??

No Im not saying he accepted the 8D but the 4D mind.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

and if were accepting that hte 8D spaces aren't actually real 8 spatial dimensions of a higher dimenson but something else entirely..
i think higher dimensional manipualton should be removed as its contradictory...

^^^^ i still think Higher dimensional manipulation should be removed from her page... its contradictory assuming they ARE NOT actual higher dimensions imo...

 

[John985]

Well we need more input on that.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

and if were accepting that hte 8D spaces aren't actually real 8 spatial dimensions of a higher dimenson but something else entirely..
i think higher dimensional manipualton should be removed as its contradictory...

No one is saying they aren't actually higher dimensions, just that they are not treated the same. She definetely can manipulate higher dimensions

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

They are higher dimensions and Nasu specifically showed that he understands how dimensions work.

I just woke up, so I might have misread some things, but why would 1-C hax contradict her low 2-C AP rating? We do have characters that are like tier 7 with 1-A hax or resistances.

 

[Paul_Frank]

It wouldn't normally contradict the rating except she fused with the 8d structure which means she herself became 8d so she would be 1-C

Looking at it now I actually don't see the problem

Everyone considered higher-d in the verse right now is an absolute top tier to my knowledge and never really got defeated by a lower tier, lower-d character

 

[RM97]

They are higher dimensions and Nasu specifically showed that he understands how dimensions work.
I just woke up, so I might have misread some things, but why would 1-C hax contradict her low 2-C AP rating? We do have characters that are like tier 7 with 1-A hax or resistances.

AFAIK BB's hax is Law Manip and Higher Dimensional Manip which comes from her manipulating the Moon Cell which is 8D. That would definetly give her 1-C tiering considering she is manipulating an 8D structure. Those Tier 7 characters have 1-A potency hax with extended melee range but even then, you have this guy via 1-A law hax and range which gives him 1-A tier even in tier 5. So BB shouldn't be different.