BB's hax was nerfed! (CASE SOLVED!)

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

If you accept 8D as 8D, then you could attribute that only to her Moon Cell hax abilities like Law manipulation, without changing her tier. We could treat the Moon Cell as an object that can manipulate 8D, have 8D hax, but not be 8D itself (if that's possible).

Or remove 8D thing completely, which is kinda hard to do because it's a real thing, it's not someone's misinterpretation. It would be deliberately ignoring parts of the Moon Cell mechanics. We already accepted the 8D mind thing for her and higher-dimensional manipulation.

 

[Ionliosite]

Yeah, but BB fused with the Moon Cell which is an 8-D structure. It is like when a character fuses with the universe and becomes 4th dimensional like Fusion Zamasu.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Yeah, big problem. On one hand it's hard to accept it as such, on the other it's hard to completely ignore it.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Technically the moon cell itself isn't 8D, it can just simulate spaces of that level within itself.

 

[RM97]

I'd suggest using two tiers in one key for BB where one is Low 2-C where no 8D stuff is involved and one is 1-C where 8D Mooncell is involved. Kinda like Simon and Anti-Spiral from GL where they have 2-C and High 1-C tiers at EoS key

Edit: NVM they were changed but you guys get the gist

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Yeah, I also think that the Moon Cell itself is not 8D, which would make things easier as we could solve this situation by just making her hax that level. It would not affect the overall scaling of the verse, nor would it create major contradictions.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I'm at work but I'll give input once I have time

 

[Paul_Frank]

Either way, if she became 8d herself or her hax were 8d it doesn't create major contradictions so I'm find with either

 

[Jasonsith]

Either way, if she became 8d herself or her hax were 8d it doesn't create major contradictions so I'm find with either

But it would upgrade / inflate Fate characters into 8-dimensional

A massive upgrade I would say.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Not if only her hax were involved since it would only affect resistances of a few characters.

 

[Paul_Frank]

@Jason

It would only actually affect her, the CCC characters who fought her, Kiara and Shiki to my knowledge

 

[Wokistan]

If the moon cell is't 8-D for AP I don't see how it can be for hax though.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I don't understand how she has higher Dimensional manipulation for 8D structures when this wiki regards the Mooncell as NOT being uncountably Infinitely superior... Which is what HDM is for...

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

It's 8D in the sense it can perform 8D feat via hax.

 

[Wokistan]

Yeah but it being a space of that level would also just make it 1-C within the moon cell in terms of AP as well.

Could give her a key for outside and within it.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

The problem is before she even absorbed the Mooncell... She obtained a power equal to it..

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

My break is over.... So I'll be back later...

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Technically you are right. The Moon Cell would be 8D within itself, which would also make BB 8D within the Moon Cell. But, that makes things really difficult.

 

[RM97]

I'd suggest what Woke said.

Give her two keys one where she Mooncell isn't involved and it's Low 2-C and the one with Mooncell involved which would be 1-C

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

You would have to scale playable CCC servants. Well, at the very least Gilgamesh would have to be scaled. You could easily get away with not scaling someone like Meltlilith by putting "BB was threatened by her" to PIS/CIS category.

But, I expect some people won't like this idea at all, so I'm curious what others might think. I'm not gonna agree nor disagree with that yet, but I'll do my best to comment about our options and outcomes of our decisions here.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

100% disagree with 1-C. Higher-dimensions aren't going to mean higher-tiers anyway and there's 0 proof that in the Nasuverse they function like in Lovecraft.

 

[Wokistan]

Are there direct quotes pointing to either interpretation? Just noticed we sorta never got any of those here

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also this notion that "Every time BB lost is PIS so it's fine to upgrade her" has long since been rejected. Just because Low 2-C Nasuverse was accepted people think they can revive two year old wank.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Long story short.
Dimensions in Nasuverse are not the same as dimensions that the wiki gives tier 1 ratings for.

By nature of the growth of the tiering system, any 1-C being is assumed to be capable of destroying a 2-A construct, e.g. an infinite multiverse.

However, this is not how Nasuverse treats higher dimensional beings.

While they are a qualitatively higher order of existence to lesser beings ("Grand Caster" for example states he is a higher dimensional life form when explaining how he is a Grand Servant, and I believe it's mentioned that being a Grand Servant wasn't a matter of power but simply the Saint graph being of a higher order), being a higher dimensional being in Nasuverse or having higher dimensional power does not equate to being able to destroy entire multiverses, and thus cannot be ranked as 1-C by the way the wiki treats higher dimensional beings.

Ultimately Monarch is right and "Higher-Dimensional Hax" is a meaningless buzzword by itself without context.

 

[Wokistan]

Then you are of the camp that she doesn't have 8D whatever and that would mean her hax is just regular for her 4D tier?

I don't really have an opinion of 8D or not, I just think it needs to be consistent between both categories.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Also this notion that "Every time BB lost is PIS so it's fine to upgrade her" has long since been rejected. Just because Low 2-C Nasuverse was accepted people think they can revive two year old wank.

Except no one is saying that everytime she lost is pis

They are saying that being threatened by melt could be pis, which is most likely is

There aren't really any contradictions of higher dimensional people in the verse losing or struggling against lower dimensional people.

BB in CCC fought clearly upgraded servants within the mooncell who would have been brought up towards her level

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

I'll quote myself: "But, I expect some people won't like this idea at all, so I'm curious what others might think. "

The prophecy has been fulfilled.

I don't remember BB losing to Meltlilith. Also, I didn't say that BB losing is PIS. I said that BB throwing certain statements about Meltlilith being a threat could be PIS/CIS due to the power difference between the two.

 

[Paul_Frank]

If BB's hax was brought up to 8d the only people who would scale to my knowledge are

Herself, the resistances of people who fought her, and Kiara

Which doesn't contradict anything really

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Then you are of the camp that she doesn't have 8D whatever and that would mean her hax is just regular for her 4D tier?
I don't really have an opinion of 8D or not, I just think it needs to be consistent between both categories.

I'm of the camp that 8D hax isn't more impressive than any hax without feats or in-verse explanations. It's just a way to pretend something is more awesome than it is in threads.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

If BB's hax was brought up to 8d the only people who would scale to my knowledge are
Herself, the resistances of people who fought her, and Kiara

Which doesn't contradict anything really

Neither of these people would become higher than Low 2-C at best because 8D hax means **** all.

 

[RM97]

@Matthew, Can you explain why it's not 8D? I'd honestly appreciate if scans were provided. I've been hearing that Mooncell is 8D and is 1-C as per Dimensional tiering but I never saw scans for it, nor did I see any context for it.

 

[Paul_Frank]

So what would 8d hax have to do for you to say that it is actually 8d

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Matthew, Can you explain why it's not 8D? I'd honestly appreciate if scans were provided. I've been hearing that Mooncell is 8D and is 1-C as per Dimensional tiering but I never saw scans for it, nor did I see any context for it.

My point is that Dimensional Tiering is:

1. Shit that's not 100% applicable to all of fiction, with individual verses needing to prove how they handle dimensions to be accepted

2. Shit that's inherently scientifically wrong to begin with and will soon be removed from the wiki

And that, per extension, claiming that someone has "8D Hax" in a versus thread is absolutely meaningless without further context.

It doesn't matter if Mooncell can simulate 8D space and BB has "8D Hax". That doesn't amount to anything

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

So what would 8d hax have to do for you to say that it is actually 8d

Not my point. My point is that "Higher-D Hax" has dick all to do with feats or tiering power.

 

[Wokistan]

I think simulating space with extra axes normally inaccessible would generally prove superior to spatial manip that can't do that, since it's an extra ability one person doesn't have and all

I don't actually know the verse so idk if the rest of her powers are applicable but

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I mean yeah. But the only thing that additional axes of space can even do to someone is some degree of intangibility and phasing. Ultimately to interact with a 3D being you'd still have to engage them in the 3D axe. So it really doesn't help at all.

 

[DistinctiveFeature]

So basically unless the higher-dimensions conform with this sites tiering system it cannot be treated as higher-dimensional hax in this sites sense.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Basically, the problem is the wiki and not the verse lmao.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

100% disagree with 1-C. Higher-dimensions aren't going to mean higher-tiers anyway and there's 0 proof that in the Nasuverse they function like in Lovecraft.

Not entirely true. Avalon backs up that lower order dimensions cannot effect higher dimensional ones. It doesn't function identically tho if that is what you mean

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Basically, the problem is the wiki and not the verse lmao.

Absolutely the problem is with the wiki at large. Which is why people like myself, Ultima and others have long pointed it out. We are dragged down by an old, outdated, plaster-encaged system.