Berserk CRT: Guts and Skull Knight upgrades and a Puck Page

[ElJoaki5]

There's three things I wanna discuss in this thread:
1. This Sea God calc has been accepted. I wanna discuss if anyone else can scale and get an upgrade from this. What I wrote in the blog is: (I’ll delete it if this isn’t accepted).
Since the storm is caused by a scream from the Sea God, we can apply Newthon's third law. This means the Sea God is this durable and from the inside too (since that’s where the scream came from). Guts can cut the Sea God from the inside so he should scale.
Maybe adding a berserker armor key would be needed with this.

2. The Skull Knight should have Large Town+ Ap, dura and striking strength. This is because he's stated multiple times to rival the Godhand, which are this durable.

3. Puck page? He's an important character and would have a scale different from other characters'. For Attack Potency this should work (it has to be evaluated first) and in speed he should at least scale to end of golden age Guts. But I don’t know if he scales to all the lightning dodging feats.

(Sorry for making another thread I put it on questions earlier)

 

[Damage3245]

Since the storm is caused by a scream from the Sea God, we can apply Newthon's third law. This means the Sea God is this durable and from the inside too (since that’s where the scream came from). Guts can cut the Sea God from the inside so he should scale.

The Sea God is massive and the damage that Guts does to it is comparatively tiny compared to its full size from what I recall. Doubtful that this would be enough for him to scale to it.

I'm also not sure about applying Newton's Third Law to a magical scream causing a storm to appear.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Let's go over this real fast

1. Guts does harm it, yes, but the problem is that without a UES magic does not scale to physicals, so scaling him to that is impossible.

2. Scans, please?

3. Make a sandbox.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:DaReaperMan/Puck_(Berserk)

Just replace "DaReaperMan" with whatever your username is on the wiki.

 

[ElJoaki5]

The Sea God is massive and the damage that Guts does to it is comparatively tiny compared to its full size from what I recall. Doubtful that this would be enough for him to scale to it.

I'm also not sure about applying Newton's Third Law to a magical scream causing a storm to appear.

Let's go over this real fast

1. Guts does harm it, yes, but the problem is that without a UES magic does not scale to physicals, so scaling him to that is impossible.

2. Scans, please?

3. Make a sandbox.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:DaReaperMan/Puck_(Berserk)

Just replace "DaReaperMan" with whatever your username is on the wiki.

1. The size he of the damage does is small, true, but he still does harm. The PowerScaling page implies harming is enough (example of non viable Powerscaling 2) It says If a character hurts another but it was holding back then the character doesn’t scale. Implying that if it is harmed and it isn’t holding back the character does scale (like in this case).

The Sea God's durability does scale. The storm is caused by the power of its scream, the act of screaming needs physical action to be caused. So the Sea God withstands the force of its scream, even from the inside. (Source: Durability page).

2. Mb the statements aren’t about rivaling, but about opposing the godhand (chapter 80) and being their foe.
But theres other moments which may work for him to scale:

• Chapter 87: Void reflects Skull Knights attack instead of tanking it.
• Chapter 88: While Skull Knight kind of dodges the telekinetic attack from Femto, he is still closer to its center than other apostles which got sucked in while he didn’t.
• He has been opposing the godhand for a thousand year and targeting them at every temporal-junction point (Chapter 304)

3. I'll make the puck page after the calc is accepted.

Edit: This is the Puck page, should I change anything?

 

[SheevShezarrine]

1) Rusty basically summed up my thoughts. God I wish Guts was 7-C+ tho

2) post scans of the statements pls. Til then I'll have to disagree since Nosferatu Zodd can keep up with Skull Knight, and both Void and Femto casually blocked attacks from the latter

3) sounds good to me

 

[ElJoaki5]

1) Rusty basically summed up my thoughts. God I wish Guts was 7-C+ tho

2) post scans of the statements pls. Til then I'll have to disagree since Nosferatu Zodd can keep up with Skull Knight, and both Void and Femto casually blocked attacks from the latter

3) sounds good to me

Message above. Skull knight is superior to Zodd, he can easily cut him and has never taken damage from any of their fights.

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

I think Guts should at least somewhat scale to the Sea God, not because he injured it, but because he had to at least take some portion of the blast that created that storm. I don't know if there is a way to find out how much energy that would be or if we could massively downscale him but I believe he should at least somewhat scale.

 

[ElJoaki5]

Bump

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

The Sea God is massive and the damage that Guts does to it is comparatively tiny compared to its full size from what I recall. Doubtful that this would be enough for him to scale to it.

I'm also not sure about applying Newton's Third Law to a magical scream causing a storm to appear.

I also agree with this. Just because Guts harmed a relatively small portion of the Sea God doesn't mean he should automatically scale to it, and Guts could only destroy it by striking its heart.

Skull Knight scaling to the God Hand is iffy as well. The God Hand never state Skull Knight is their rival; they are only nominally surprised when he arrives during the Eclipse and take no real measures to stop him. When Skull Knight strikes Void, he merely takes the force of his own sword strike, then rescues Guts and Casca before fleeing. Only Femto tried to stop him, but it was more just to test his new powers. They probably view Skull Knight the same way they view Guts: inconsequential. And the very fact he chose to create the Sword of Actuation using the Behelits to imprison the God Hand implies he knows he's not strong enough to defeat the God Hand on his own and has to resort to imprisoning them to win.

Scaling Puck to 9-A seems really weird as well. He's a joke character, and I hate it when people actually try to scale joke characters. If he was really 9-A, he wouldn't have let himself be used as target practice by those mercenaries in the first chapter of the story. He really doesn't need a profile anyway.

So overall, I disagree with all these upgrades. The pages should remain as they are.

 

[ElJoaki5]

I also agree with this. Just because Guts harmed a relatively small portion of the Sea God doesn't mean he should automatically scale to it, and Guts could only destroy it by striking its heart.

Skull Knight scaling to the God Hand is iffy as well. The God Hand never state Skull Knight is their rival; they are only nominally surprised when he arrives during the Eclipse and take no real measures to stop him. When Skull Knight strikes Void, he merely takes the force of his own sword strike, then rescues Guts and Casca before fleeing. Only Femto tried to stop him, but it was more just to test his new powers. They probably view Skull Knight the same way they view Guts: inconsequential. And the very fact he chose to create the Sword of Actuation using the Behelits to imprison the God Hand implies he knows he's not strong enough to defeat the God Hand on his own and has to resort to imprisoning them to win.

Scaling Puck to 9-A seems really weird as well. He's a joke character, and I hate it when people actually try to scale joke characters. If he was really 9-A, he wouldn't have let himself be used as target practice by those mercenaries in the first chapter of the story. He really doesn't need a profile anyway.

So overall, I disagree with all these upgrades. The pages should remain as they are.

1. The size of the damage he does is small, true, but he still does harm. The PowerScaling page implies harming is enough (example of non viable Powerscaling 2) It says If a character hurts another but it was holding back then the character doesn’t scale. Implying that if it is harmed and it isn’t holding back the character does scale (like in this case).
I’ve also explained the Sea God is this durable from the inside too, which may include its heart. This at least applies to his stomach wall (which Guts cut through too).

2. I’m fine with Skull Knight not scaling since it is iffy. But I don’t know where you got the idea of Skull Knight "imprisoning the Godhand".

3. The mercenaries thing seems like an outlier, in the anti-feat sense. You could explain this as toon force so I could add this to his profile.

 

[Damage3245]

The size of the damage he does is small, true, but he still does harm. The PowerScaling page implies harming is enough (example of non viable Powerscaling 2)

Context matters. Not just harming a character is enough sometimes is the size difference is enough.

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

1. The size of the damage he does is small, true, but he still does harm. The PowerScaling page implies harming is enough (example of non viable Powerscaling 2) It says If a character hurts another but it was holding back then the character doesn’t scale. Implying that if it is harmed and it isn’t holding back the character does scale (like in this case).
I’ve also explained the Sea God is this durable from the inside too, which may include its heart. This at least applies to his stomach wall (which Guts cut through too).

If a bug bites your skin and hurts you, does the bug scale to you? Same thing applies. Just because Guts did some minor damage to a portion of the body doesn't mean he automatically scales. If Guts was able to tank multiple serious swipes from the Sea God, or if his slashes were enough to cause the Sea God to stagger and fall, then I'd be more inclined to scale Guts to it. But the Sea God's mere roar was enough to shake Guts' senses and cause him to pass out, even with the power of the Berserker Armor. He got lucky because he targeted its heart and because the Dragonslayer can damage astral creatures.

2. I’m fine with Skull Knight not scaling since it is iffy. But I don’t know where you got the idea of Skull Knight "imprisoning the Godhand".

It was Skull Knight's plan, to use the Sword of Behelits he'd been forging to create a tear in space that would lead to the Abyss, imprisoning the God Hand in there. But Femto redirected the slash towards Ganishka, creating a deeper fissue in the astral world and initiating the Great Roar of the Astral World.

3. The mercenaries thing seems like an outlier, in the anti-feat sense. You could explain this as toon force so I could add this to his profile.

You could say that Puck fending the smaller spirits is just as much an outlier. It was clearly meant to be taken as a comedic moment to lighten the mood and give Guts a laugh to humanize him. I don't see this one moment as good justification for a 9-A rating, especially when the strength of the spirits in Berserk can vary.

 

[ElJoaki5]

If a bug bites your skin and hurts you, does the bug scale to you? Same thing applies. Just because Guts did some minor damage to a portion of the body doesn't mean he automatically scales. If Guts was able to tank multiple serious swipes from the Sea God, or if his slashes were enough to cause the Sea God to stagger and fall, then I'd be more inclined to scale Guts to it. But the Sea God's mere roar was enough to shake Guts' senses and cause him to pass out, even with the power of the Berserker Armor. He got lucky because he targeted its heart and because the Dragonslayer can damage astral creatures.

It was Skull Knight's plan, to use the Sword of Behelits he'd been forging to create a tear in space that would lead to the Abyss, imprisoning the God Hand in there. But Femto redirected the slash towards Ganishka, creating a deeper fissue in the astral world and initiating the Great Roar of the Astral World.

You could say that Puck fending the smaller spirits is just as much an outlier. It was clearly meant to be taken as a comedic moment to lighten the mood and give Guts a laugh to humanize him. I don't see this one moment as good justification for a 9-A rating, especially when the strength of the spirits in Berserk can vary.

I can give up on the first point since no one agrees with it. I’ll delete that part from the storm calc blog.

The Skull Knight has durability negation with the sword of actuation, listed in his page. So if he landed it, Femto would just have died.

You can interpret that as toon force, which also includes possibly being limited to what counts as "funny". The calc doesn’t rely on the strength of the spirits, it’s just Puck vaporizing them.