Barbatos Respect Thread

[Elizio33]

Since nobody has done it yet, I thought it would be nice to make a Respect

Thread on Barbatos. This is my first RS so please be indulgent.
Feats.

His scream shake the strings of the multiverse and cause the law of physics to fail: https://plus.google.com/108621545055685115881/posts/ebPid9XYVdS

Has killed the Forger, a being comparable to the Monitor and the Anti-Monitor, destroyed the unstable universes when he was the dragon of the forge: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-T-xXxAbs1...uWAtUAHaGPWk8QAPeh_lbUIQgCHMYCw/s0/RCO017.jpg.

Has filled the World Forge with dark endings: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6KDeornrb...sWkzdH9J0hbstOta131jvyBkACHMYCw/s0/RCO025.jpg

The missile in Ultima Thule contains a baby dark universe crafted by Barbatos: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Z0sIrJgXq...3BgfXwtFq8ICEXZar17hHPLcQCHMYCw/s0/RCO023.jpg

Combat.

Has easily defeated Superman and Wonder Woman: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-W8rYM9hZO...AAApU/Q6etTTpjvKYpRksr7DcV0LdI5_VBDf2CgCHMYCw

Has trapped Superman and Wonder Woman in an illusion: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_wH7duEcA...iWYlSO7wcJA3ObyHg60GW0q7ACHMYCw/s0/RCO009.jpg.

Has nearly killed a corrupted version of Hawkman who was strong enough to harm him: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-QFWU09OCK...Vv4Wb8-dJZMTfifRDLhZW9CCgCHMYCw/s0/RCO031.jpg

So, we have some Tier 2 feats he should be "At least 2-A" for killing the Forger who was comparable to the Anti Monitor and the Monitor and for have filled the World Forge with dark endings. Thank you!

 

[Wokistan]

You may want to add in some of BWL's more out there feats like restraining the monitor and apparently killing the dark multiverse spectre, since that would make no sense otherwise and it would make sense for there to be assistance from Barbatos there. That's not officially confirmed though, so if you don't want to I'd understand that.

 

[Elizio33]

I don't know if it would be appropriate to add that.

 

[Xantospoc]

Being equal to the Monitor and the Anti Monitor is not enough to be 2-A. They are at that level only when Anti Monitor absorbed the Dark Matter Universe. Normally he would be 3-A

 

[Wokistan]

Well, theres implications of the forger and therefore Barbatos being 2A in that the current multiverse is limited due to Barbatos killing the forger preventing the forger from creating infinite worlds.

 

[Elizio33]

Being equal to the Monitor and the Anti Monitor is not enough to be 2-A. They are at that level only when Anti Monitor absorbed the Dark Matter Universe. Normally he would be 3-A

True but Barbatos have also filled the World Forge with dark endings.

 

[Wokistan]

Theres also that Dream of the Endless is apparently interested by the event, though that could possibly be an outlier. I was actually about to go through these myself, so I'll see if I find anything more.

 

[Elizio33]

His range should be Multiversal+ with his scream. Or maybe High Hyperversal for have affected the realm of Dream of the Endless.

 

[Wokistan]

Burning Dream's library shouldn't scale to dream, considering his library was destroyed before by entities that couldn't do anything to him.

 

[Wokistan]

That also seemed more like a side effect of what he did rather than intentional anyways.

 

[Elizio33]

Okay so, just Multiversal+ with his scream?

 

[Elizio33]

So, Barbatos should be "At least 2-A" for Attack Potency and Durability. Multiversal+ for Range and maybe MFTL+ for Speed. And for Powers and Abilities i think he has: Dark Matter Manipulation, Gravity Manipulation, Telephaty and Illusion, Size Manipulation and maybe Law Manipulation or Reality Warping. What do you think?

 

[Xantospoc]

Barbatos should still be in my opinion "At least 3-A, Likely Higher". He did corrupt the dark Universe, yes, but Anti Monitor did the same... over time, so I don't think it scales effectively to its full power.

I am fine with Multiversal+ for range, though

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Xanto

Barbatos has several Tier 2 feats.

 

[Xantospoc]

@Xanto
Barbatos has several Tier 2 feats.

NVM then, I did not read (nor I plan to) read this event. I am too tired of Batman's exposure

 

[Elizio33]

Barbatos should still be in my opinion "At least 3-A, Likely Higher". He did corrupt the dark Universe, yes, but Anti Monitor did the same... over time, so I don't think it scales effectively to its full power.

I am fine with Multiversal+ for range, though

I heard that the dark multiverse is much bigger than the multiverse. So it's for that i think he should be "At least 2-A"

 

[Antvasima]

The base Anti-Monitor was only "At least Low 2-C" before he consumed infinite universes.

I do not think that we can scale Barbatos from him at his peak.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Barbatos still killed the Forger, who created the Dark Multiverse, which is shaped from every negative thought in the multiverse.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Ant

Barbatos and the Batman who Laughs also defeated the Overmonitor and imprisoned him.

It's also implied that the Batman Who Laughs dealt with The Spectre and Barbatos is obviously superior to his own lieutenant.

 

[Elizio33]

Plus, the dark multiverse is bigger than the matter multiverse.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the previous DC multiverse only had 52 universes, and I think that the forger was supposed to have created the dark universes one at a time, so I am not sure how to properly rate Barbatos.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

1. Multiverse in the Metal storyline is the whole thing, High 1-B

2. Dark Multiverse is even bigger.

3. DC NEVER had only 52 universe

4. Ant, please don't argue out of preconceived notions.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, all that was stated is that the Forger created universes, not an infinite-dimensional structure. Rating Barbatos as High 1-B seems extremely exaggerated.

 

[The_Everlasting]

The comic doesn't need to spoonfeed to you that the characters are High 1-B. Higher dimensions don't need to be mentioned every time.

 

[Elizio33]

I think he's just At least 2-A

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Antvasima, they literally use the DC Multiverse Map in the story. You can't get more blatant. And the Dark Multiverse is larger than the whole thing.

Also what Ever says.

You have this strange need of requesting the comicbook to spoonfeed every detail every time for you in every storyline, wishing it to the audience as idiots who never read any other comic in their lives.

If the multiverse is established as High 1-B in a story, then it is, and a destruction of the entire multiverse is High 1-B.

 

[Antvasima]

We also cannot assume that the writer of this particular story considered the DC multiverse as an infinite-dimensional geometric structure, rather than a mere collection of universes, considering the focus on dark parallel version of DC heroes, and that Barbatos and the Hawkman forger were shown as powerful, but not remotely infinity^infinity level powerful.

 

[Ryukama]

If the multiverse is established as High 1-B in another comic canon to this one, then this comic not reminding us that the multiverse is High 1-B is completely irrelevant. Every single issue of a comic isn't its own continuity. We don't demand any anime, video game, etc. to restate the size of their cosmology during cosmic feats.

 

[Antvasima]

It was explicitly stated that the Forger strictly created universes with dark parallel versions of DC Comics characters. What was mentioned to be larger was the greater number of universes. The author of this story did not seem to understand the full scale of Grant Morrison's schematics.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, from what I remember what was at stake here is the 52 main universes being dragged down to the dark multiverse of eternal nightmares, not an infinite-dimensional structure being destroyed.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

>We cannot assume

>When the writers outright used the DC Multiverse Map

Is this some joke? They used the map which clarifies that it refers to the whole multiverse. The whole multiverse is High 1-B, get over it.

Why do you keep holding onto 2015 VBW's biased standards against comicbooks.

Because, seriously, your standards with comicbooks are absurd. You interpret each storyline as existing in a sort of Schrodinger's Quantum-singularity state, in which it is simultaneously connected to the wider universe of all other stories, but also within a limbo split of from the rest of reality.

And whenever it suits your point for a storyline to be connected to the rest of a universe, such as when bringing up absurd low-ends such as Thor getting harmed by bullets, or Hulk being bitten by a snake, they do, and you will use such instances to try and argue against feats from other storylines, even when they are decades apart.

But, whenever it suits your point for a storyline to be treated as its own, separate and isolated thing, such as whenever a character does something extraordinarily above your preconceived notions of where they stand, you immediately bring up this fallacy of insisting that it doesn't count because it wasn't spoon-feed into the reader's mouth.

You need to stop showing counter-intuitive standards and transparent bias agaisnt comicbooks, which I might add are not replicated or agreed upon by literally anyone else within this wiki. Nearly every single comicbook discussion is bogged down by you repeating this same fallacy which you've used with abandon since 2015. It's like you are actively against comicbook characters being powerful.

 

[Antvasima]

If we scale Barbatos to High 1-B, who, I might add, was defeated extremely easily for a supposedly High 1-B entity, then we would also have to consider The Monitor and Anti-Monitor of that scale, as his in-story established counterparts, which makes extremely little sense.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Considering the same story outright says that the Anti-Monitor was going to be turned into a bomb to destroy the whole Dark Multiverse, the Anti-Monitor is being treated as High 1-B in this storyline. If that is consistent is another thing entirely, but you cannot close your eyes to the evidence and pretend it doesn't exist.

Just like you did to all the evidence to New 52 Anti-Monitor being above your preconceived notions of him being 5-B, even after he's consumed and absorbed the energies of multiple universes in-story, and cracked the multiverse with his power.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Perhaps an "At Least 2-A, Likely High 1-B" raitng would be good? I honesly don't know where to fall on this.

 

[Antvasima]

I would appreciate if you tone down the accusations. All that I am saying is that different writers are usually not aware of the full scope of otherwise established standards, given the sheer enormous amount of stories for these franchises.

I also think that scaling Barbatos so high would create serious contradictions both for his displayed power-level, and for that of the Monitor and Anti-Monitor, and that what was mainly shown at risk were the 52 parallel universes sinking into the darkness.

That is all. It is not some kind of giant bias against comics. It is just a difference in perspective, so please tone down the hostility.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Why is this thread getting so feisty? We can cool down now lol

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I would appreciate if you tone down the accusations. All that I am saying is that different writers are usually not aware of the full scope of otherwise established standards, given the sheer enormous amount of stories for these franchises.

>Asks the person to tone down valid criticism, dismissing them as "accusations"

>Immediately accuses the comicbook writers of being idiots who don't know the own universe they write for.

Ant, please.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Why is this thread getting so feisty? We can cool down now lol

Because I've literally had to deal with these same fallacious arguments since 2015.

 

[Antvasima]

If there was a reference to the Anti-Monitor blowing up the multiverse, it would make far more sense that it involved the parallel universes parts of it than everything up to the Endless' level. In that case, the higher powers would have actively ganged up on and fought him personally, and regular superhero characters would not have been able to make any difference.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

If there was a reference to the Anti-Monitor blowing up the multiverse, it would make far more sense that it involved the parallel universes parts of it than everything up to the Endless' level. In that case, the higher powers would have actively ganged up on and fought him personally, and regular superhero characters would not have been able to make any difference.

>The higher powers would have fought.

Ant, this isn't Marvel. The Endless don't fight people.

Secondly, yes they wanted to use the Anti-Monitor as a bomb to destroy the Dark Multiverse, which dwarfs the entirely of the DC Multiverse like an ocean dwarfs a drop of water.

Is it an outlier? Yes, I think so. Did it somehow not happen because of that? No. All I'm asking is that you accept it as a fact.

In regards to regular superhero characters making a difference, comics do this. The original Secret Wars had low-level characters routinely being an "inconvenience" to the Beyonder.