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Barbatos Respect Thread

The way I remember it, the Forger was simply stated to have created a massive amount of universes.
 
So, At least 2-B, likely 2-A for attack pottency and durability with Multiverse level+ for the range?
 
>At least 2-B.

Absolutely not, this is based on nothing but headcanon and downplay. Even if we are going this route to appease, it should be At least 2-A.
 
I suppose that "At least 2-A" could work.

Given my explanations above, do you understand why I am concerned about giving a higher rating than that?
 
I do but I disagree, it seems entirely built on treating each comicbook storyline as existing in its own pocket dimension cut of from the rest of reality, while also ignoring every single indication within said storyline of a higher level of power than what you personally believe in.

It's Argument from Incredulity mixed with applying unreasonably high standards such as demanding each story explains the full cosmology, rather than the basic assumption that it isn't because it already has in other stories.
 
Well, in this case it is mostly just that the entire focus was on the creation of dark universes, and that Barbatos was shown as far too much of a pushover to rationally qualify for a Beyonder-level rating.
 
But I certainly do consider different writers to recurrently use very different standards as well.
 
Antvasima said:
Barbatos was shown as far too much of a pushover to rationally qualify for a Beyonder-level rating.
Click to expand...
There are multiple verses where 2-A, High 1-B, and even 1-A entities get effortlessly curbstomped by higher beings.
 
Yes, but not by Hawkgirl wielding a tool used by comparatively low-level deities.
 
Antvasima said:
Yes, but not by Hawkgirl wielding a tool used by comparatively low-level deities.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure either that's out of context, or its a massive low-end anyway, be he 2-B or High 1-B.
 
The point is that all that we know about Barbatos is that he saw to the forging of a possibly infinite number of nightmare universes, and was defeated by Hawkgirl. He did not appear much during the event.
 
You can check here for yourself:

http://***************.to/Comic/Dark-Nights-Metal
 
Antvasima said:
The point is that all that we know about Barbatos is that he saw to the forging of a possibly infinite number of nightmare universes, and was defeated by Hawkgirl. He did not appear much during the event.
Click to expand...
That's wrong. He did several more things.

Hell, a crux of his backstory is murdering the Forger, who created the Dark Multiverse that's much larger than the normal multiverse.
 
Who created the universes within it. I don't remember any mentions of any higher levels of reality.
 
It would also completely mess up our scaling for the Monitor, Anti-Monitor, Spectre, etcetera to retroactively scale them from a High 1-B Barbatos.
 
Antvasima said:
Who created the universes within it. I don't remember any mentions of any higher levels of reality.
Click to expand...
Ant.

They. Don't. Need. To Spoonfeed. You. This. Every. Single. Time.

The Dark Multiverse is much larger than the whole DC Multiverse, thus it is High 1-B. This is unarguable.
 
I am not arguing the scale of the dark multiverse itself, I am arguing that I only remember a focus on the Forger creating the universes within it.
 
I also dont think the Forger created the Dark Multiverse itself, just like the Monitor and Anti-Monitor, it probably came into existence at same time as the Dark Multiverse and was tasked to watch over it

Edit: if the forger created the Dark Multiverse, I guess he can be High 1-B
 
A High 1-B Barbatos would cause a scaling disaster for other profiles, and also contradicts what we actually saw of him within this story.
 
Anyway, I am severely exhausted from having to handle this long argument simultaneously with all of my other usual tasks.
 
Couldn't we just stop argue and choose a tier that everyone would agree please? it is doubtful that barbatos is high 1-B Yes. but he could be in 2 tier.
 
I am fine with "At least 2-A", as Matthew suggested.
 
I am unsure of such. I'll have to re-read it to be sure... But i am unsure of either side ATM.

A lazy way to do it is either " 2-B, possibly HIgh 1-B " ... Or " 2-A, possibly High 1-B " . Though... It would make every other profile possibly High 1-B... As this retcons Anti-Monitor's history

Also @Ant... Anti-Monitor's power was able to go through all dimensional planes sans one of them .

- Here is the Multiversity Map being utilized in-story . They explained that supposed everything was created by Anti-Matter and Matter ( Monitor and Anti-Monitor respectively ) . Anti-Monitor and Positive Monitor's power was then confirmed here .

- Here is the comparison between the Multiversity Map... And the Dark Multiverse .

- Dream of the Endless .

- Anti-Monitor Brain incident . Another one .

- Possible Upgrade for Batman who Laughs ? Or... Is this some sort of prep feat ?

- Interesting little cosmology detail between the Phantom Zone, Dark Multiverse, and Anti-Monitor . Also, Anti-Monitor connected the Dark Multiverse w/ the Phantom Zone supposedly .

-Barbatos will eventually destroy the totality of the Dreaming , which definitely is a High 1-B Feat.

- Even the Dream of the Endless calls the Dark Multiverse... a "Infinitely Vast Multiverse " .

- The Forge was made Dark due to Barbatos . This is a feat i am sure for him, but i am unsure to what degree.

- They confirm the Source Wall is the very limit of the Multiverse ... Which may or may not imply the Multiverse is High 1-B here. The Source Wall broke as a result of the chaos ... Albeit the Source Wall's durability is inconsistent... It is nice enough to know .

So there is significant evidence for either tier.... That is all I'm going to say.
 
@Seed

Please avoid interfering. This is exhausting enough as it is.

@Matthew

Well, the Source is that high, but comparatively low-tier characters have broken out of the wall surrounding it before.
 
Speaking of which, Superboy-Prime is technically imprisoned there, so if some writer wants to unleash him again, I suppose that now would be an opportunity.
 
I don't know. It would have to feature an explanation for why we do not rate him higher, but given the enormous contradictions involving the character, it might be better to avoid creating the profile.
 
I came here explicitly to help out though. It isn´t as though i came up with 4-5 paragraphs of BS to explain something and wank it and exaggerate it beyond comprehension and become the waste of the earth by doing it that way . I came with scans. That is all. Can you please stop automatically assuming I´m here to disrupt the threads flow. I´m no where near the same person I was awhile back . I already stated it can go EITHER way, not immediately going to High 1-B, though I can see why someone would think that . 2-A is a fine assumption.
 
@Seed

bruh the whole multiversity float in it which sound prolly include the endless....

and remember Destiny got the multiversity in his book

yet the whole multiversity swims in the dark muktiverse
 
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