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Barbatos Respect Thread

@Seed

I checked some of your scans, and they did not say what you claimed, so I removed your post.

It seems better if people read the entire event that I linked to.
 
The scan that supposedly claimed that the Dreaming would be destroyed said nothing of the sort, and the mention of an infinite multiverse wasn't worded the way that Seed stated, so I interpreted it as Seed being confused and misinterpreting things again.

But alright, I can restore the post if you wish.
 
But alright, I suppose that I will have to go through the scans that he posted in order then, with time that I would rather spend on other tasks.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2blYCDzDg...KlMqGnbxTf0I6BZokOIBVACHMYCw/s1600/RCO027.jpg

The multiverse map is only discussed in terms of the 52 known universes.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8WBIfpLF9...6zkUanE7kE7PgwGhxtiwvQCHMYCw/s1600/RCO024.jpg

A bomb made of the Monitor and Anti-Monitor is mentioned that is intended to blow up the regular multiverse, but this is left unproven, and it is unknown if this would affect the aforementioned 52 universes, or the higher realms as well.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-WxHV_q0Ta..._-AOak0rWHH9UX_ldV0IZgCHMYCw/s1600/RCO028.jpg

A reference to the dark multiverse being larger than the regular one, but in the preceding discussion only 52 universes were mentioned, so this may have simply been a case of the far greater amount of universes there.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dLSOIq08d...F4fItD6nGm_iGONZv57iygCHMYCw/s1600/RCO036.jpg

Dream is bringing a warning to Batman.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hvY-3lyik...gaODRXL_z40G4qfZNA3iaACHMYCw/s1600/RCO019.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FkbLgJuYL...q4Xpj1WbyRzD8AXq8GXc3ACHMYCw/s1600/RCO021.jpg

A claim from Kendra/Hawkgirl that the Anti-Monitor could destroy the dark multiverse, but given her focus on universes, rather than existence as a whole, in the previous scan, that the entire focus of the event was parallel universe versions, and that this would fit better with the established scale of the Anti-Monitor, destruction of all universes within it seems like a more likely scenario.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KEghAQDVf...yGXkgWdcdg9UwGmm1pLFQwCHMYCw/s1600/RCO014.jpg

More focus on parallel universes.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xJFcXC3AE...vu5Q0vArzxYTcCfxxxc1RQCHMYCw/s1600/RCO024.jpg

The Phantom Zone is connected to the dark multiverse.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Pimbv4vC3...QWrX3CX7EbJEUjaEd9IbqQCHMYCw/s1600/RCO018.jpg

Dream mentions "the infinite vastness of the dark multiverse". That does not really tell us anything though. Even a universe is technically infinite in its totality.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-P-zEelPYu...wTVB93HNcYXKjek7gLUAogCHMYCw/s1600/RCO024.jpg

The forge that creates universes is no longer active.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4m1iFl9GC...BogpCwS2re7c0iRBHFWztwCHMYCw/s1600/RCO036.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-eQ-3Ldq5B...wga7g_-9pPA7Yx9-M57NBACHMYCw/s1600/RCO041.jpg

The DC superheroes broke through part of the Source Wall by using Element X, the metal of the New Gods. Of course, other characters, such as Ares and Yuga Khan, have broken out of it in the past as well.
 
Antvasima said:
I don't know. It would have to feature an explanation for why we do not rate him higher, but given the enormous contradictions involving the character, it might be better to avoid creating the profile.
Click to expand...
I don't know why people are saying that Barbatos could be High 1-B.. Yes, the dark multiverse may be High 1-B but that does not necessarily mean that Barbatos is at this level. He killed the Forger who created countless universes and was supposed to be equal to the Anti Monitor and the Monitor. Barbatos is already able to create universes. So, Low 2-C, likely 2-A or At least 2-A or could work in my opinion.
 
Well, he could kill the Forger, and if the Forger created infinite universes, that would warrant a 2-A rating.
 
And for the note on his profile, we could said that High 1-B Barbatos would be too contradictory to the fact that he's supposed to be equal to the Anti Monitor and the Monitor. And also Barbatos was defeated by a weapon made from a metal created by the New Gods.
 
I wouldn't mind that kind of profile, but it might risk to cause a conflict with other staff members, and I much prefer to keep things nice and calm within this wiki.
 
I want only At leas 2-A, I am sorry Antvasima but they show the full multiverse map which is High 1-B. Why must you continually downplay comics?

The Dark Multiverse and the Multiverse are both High 1-B, and the bomb would destroy the totality of the former.

It must be At least 2-A. At the minimum. This is strictly to appease you, and anything below is ludicrous downplay.
 
I am not remotely downplaying comics. I constantly reevaluate my viewpoints about most statistics when presented with convincing evidence, and am fine with our current immensely high ratings for the most powerful characters. I just find the massive contradictions and inconsistencies headache-inducing to try to make sense of.

You already know this, so I would appreciate if you refrain from any further accusations.

Anyway, I suppose that At least 2-A should be fine.
 
Case in point, a High 1-B Anti-Monitor almost being killed by Supergirl and Superboy Prime at different points would make absolutely no sense whatsoever, nor would a High 1-B Barbatos being oneshot by Hawkgirl.
 
Antvasima said:
Case in point, a High 1-B Anti-Monitor almost being killed by Supergirl and Superboy Prime at different points would make absolutely no sense whatsoever, nor would a High 1-B Barbatos being oneshot by Hawkgirl.
Click to expand...
That's blatant PIS even if he's Tier 2.
 
Yes, you are. You are outright saying that DC only has 52 universes, and thinking that the Map of the entire DC Multiverse is only 2-C, and that the thing which dwarfs it is only 2-B.

That is downplaying, no two ways about it. I'm sorry, but you are just not unbiased enough to be talking about this. You keep saying you don't, but all you do is grossly exaggerate the supposed "Inconsistency" of comics, which only you seems to think exist to the extent you insist.

Also, thanks for ignoring context in both scenes. No Anti-Monitor was ever killed by Supergirl, and they weren't at full power when Supergirl just made it stagger, nor when they fought Superboy Prime.

I'm posiitive you are ignoring tons of context with Hawkgirl to try to make the characters seem less impressive.
 
I am saying that this particular storyline explicitly only mentioned the 52 main universes in the local multiversal cluster, not the unexplored infinite other ones mentioned at the end of Multiversity.

I already said that I am fine with the Forger creating an infinite number of universes.

I do not exaggerate the massive inconsistencies in comics from writer to writer and story to story. They genuinely are absolutely staggering. You have seen enough examples of this yourself to at least somewhat understand where I am coming from.

During the Crisis, the base Anti-Monitor was overpowered by the original Supergirl until she was distracted and he killed her. Superboy Prime easily defeated him during the Sinestro Corps War.

Hawkgirl oneshot Barbatos with a tool used by the New Gods, who should have no way to affect entities an uncountable unfinity ^ an uncountable infinity times more powerful than they are. You can check the scan yourself via the link that I provided earlier.

Just because I have a different viewpoint than you for this particular context, as opposed to agreeing with you in 95% of all cases, as I usually do, this does not mean that I am deliberately downplaying or have no right to be talking about this. That is a personal attack, and entirely uncalled for.
 
@RinkakuKagune

You will note that I am constantly refraining from personal accusations, but I do have the right to have a different viewpoint for once.
 
But alright, what would you suggest for a solution Matthew? How do we solve the contradictions with the Anti-Monitor's, the Monitor's, and the Spectre's established power levels? Should we upgrade all of them to High 1-B? What about Mxyzptlk, who is far more powerful than the Spectre?

This is not an ironic post by the way. I am open for rational suggestions.
 
Yeah I can understand that, and this whole arguement is espescially suprising sinc you and Matt usually agree with almost everything. Other than now I legit haven't seen you guys disagree and honestly i can be annoying if somebody is trying to upgrade a character/verse lol. But I'm just calling for everyone to cool and down, after all it IS only a comic book. There shouldn't be any need for anyone to start getting heated over this.
 
No.

First of all, the baseline power of the Anti-Monitor and the Monitor is Low 2-C. The Anti-Monitor at his peak is 2-A. This storyline sorta implies High 1-B, but again, I don't think that's consistent, just like I don't think that Spectre being High 1-B is consistent.

I would probably go with "At least 2-A" for both at their peak.

All I want is for you to not act as if the high-end feats don't exist. I don't agree with High 1-B Barbatos and Anti-Monitor, at all, but I at least admit that this is there
 
"During the Crisis, the base Anti-Monitor was overpowered by the original Supergirl until she was distracted and he killed her."

He wasn't drawing the power of his Anti-Matter universe at the time. IT was heavy PIS and a low-end, I agree, but even in the same story he is consistently shown as above that so I don't think it is very good.

"Superboy Prime easily defeated him during the Sinestro Corps War."

Was Anti-Monitor weakened / cut off from his power source? If so I could see a Low 2-C beating him.

"Hawkgirl oneshot Barbatos with a tool used by the New Gods, who should have no way to affect entities an uncountable unfinity ^ an uncountable infinity times more powerful than they are."

I don't think that Barbatos is High 1-B, I think he is 2-A. In this context, I think that the New Gods having a weapon that can kill him is believable.
 
Look, all that I am saying is that I cannot make sense of this.

The entire focus of the event was on the creation of nightmarish universes, and Barbatos was dispatched way too easily to be High 1-B, but at the same time, if the Anti-Monitor/Monitor bomb was truly capable of destroying the entirety of the regular DC multiverse, then that is obviously High 1-B. That was technically left unproven, and it would make better sense if only the parallel universes were affected, but it is entirely possible that the writer did not realise the sheer scale of what he was implying.

Anyway, again, I freely admit that there were High 1-B implications in the story, but there were 2-A ones as well, and those make better sense in context with our previous character statistics. That is all.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
I don't think that Barbatos is High 1-B, I think he is 2-A. In this context, I think that the New Gods having a weapon that can kill him is believable.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
I can agree with that, hence At least 2-A.
Click to expand...
Okay. We seem to have come to an agreement then. Are you interested in writing the profile, or are you too busy IRL?
 
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