BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

I think they should be at least relative but I would see her as the stronger one by context and statements.

Cool.

Also, I just believe that every Espada should be equal or stronger than the precedent one in Resurrección. As an example, Nnoitra would be equal or stronger in Base than Grimmjow's Panthera. I could explain all the reasons behind this scaling chain of mine but I'm too lazy as of now.

That's an interesting thought. What's your reasoning for it?

My personal headcanon is that every Espada's base form is stronger than the previous Espada's Ressurecion. Why? Uh, good question.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

I’m not sure if there’s anything interesting in this, but I got it from Klub Outside. Hopefully, it’ll be useful.

What does it say? I can't open the Imgur album, for some reason.

 

[Excellence616]

I’m about to end this man’s whole carrier…

Kubo actually said it.

Either Kubo is trolling or just want to make the manga relevant as much as the anime because Man has said it multiple times that he is adding things that wasn't in the manga in the anime.

You know Kubo can be funny at times with his answers

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

While we're on the subject of Espada, I'm thinking of making a CRT for the Arrancar saga in the future. If you ask me, most characters shouldn't be scaled to Yammy. From what I've seen on this wiki, Low tier Quincy>Espada is taken, but this is wrong. Should I release the CRT when Tybw part 3 is finished, or can I release it whenever I want since it's just the Arrancar saga?

 

[AppleLord]

Does Grimmjow get a speed upgrade? Ichigo (who was running) lost track of him while Grimmjow was running after Askin.

 

[Peterdenman156]

What does it say? I can't open the Imgur album, for some reason.

It’s a card from Klub Outside related to Anime Cour 3. I thought it looked interesting, so I brought it to show you in case it has some useful information.

 

[PerezosoUlixes]

While we're on the subject of Espada, I'm thinking of making a CRT for the Arrancar saga in the future. If you ask me, most characters shouldn't be scaled to Yammy. From what I've seen on this wiki, Low tier Quincy>Espada is taken, but this is wrong. Should I release the CRT when Tybw part 3 is finished, or can I release it whenever I want since it's just the Arrancar saga?

Well, most Quincy characters straight-up show feats that put them above Top Tier Espadas.

 

[PerezosoUlixes]

Cool.

That's an interesting thought. What's your reasoning for it?

My personal headcanon is that every Espada's base form is stronger than the previous Espada's Ressurecion. Why? Uh, good question.

The most simple reasoning I can give is just going by Nnoitra statements and Ichigo's feats. I've spent a lot of time justifying my claims in my blogs from another Wiki I work on, but it's all in Spanish and would be so time-consuming to translate everything from there. Also, I don't know if it's allowed to post something from other Wikis here or even mentioning them, so I'll avoid this.

 

[Adam1396]

That depends on what happens (plus, we already have Kenpachi is Can't Fear Your Own World being far stronger than Yamamoto and Squad 0).

The statement was made for tybw. It was made even after their training.
There's a time skip until zaraki reached that power lol

 

[Khaostichny]

What does it say? I can't open the Imgur album, for some reason.

I took a look with Google Translate, the only interesting things I noticed were Aizen being described as having a "transcendent presence and causing tension in others", as well as several claims about the world being destroyed/Mimihagi saving the world from destruction.

 

[Peterdenman156]

Bro exaggerating her abilities

I love my girl Unohana but Aizen would body that hag no cap

But fr though you think this can be used to argue that Arrancar Arc Base Aizen is stronger than Soul Society self?

Might make sense if you think about him prepping for the war plus shoving the Hogyoku in his chest

I think that Kubo-sensei is not someone who would give answers without reason. When he answers questions in Klub Outside, I've seen him mention rereading the content of Bleach before responding.

Of course, at that time, Aizen had not yet obtained Urahara's Hogyoku. However, Aizen already had Kyoka Suigetsu, which he had previously used against Unohana. She would likely be affected by Kyoka Suigetsu the moment she fought Aizen. But with her experience, Unohana probably wouldn't lose to Base Aizen as easily as when Base Aizen defeated the entire Gotei 13 during the Arrancar Arc.

 

[Adam1396]

I think that Kubo-sensei is not someone who would give answers without reason. When he answers questions in Klub Outside, I've seen him mention rereading the content of Bleach before responding.

Of course, at that time, Aizen had not yet obtained Urahara's Hogyoku. However, Aizen already had Kyoka Suigetsu, which he had previously used against Unohana. She would likely be affected by Kyoka Suigetsu the moment she fought Aizen. But with her experience, Unohana probably wouldn't lose to Base Aizen as easily as when Base Aizen defeated the entire Gotei 13 during the Arrancar Arc.

Great deal of effort means aizen would face difficulties even with his shikai.
That would have been same for yamamoto. If his bankai's destructibility didn’t handicap him.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

The statement was made for tybw. It was made even after their training.

Can you post the statement again?

 

[AppleLord]

I made a Yhwach creates his Kingdom calculation from the Anime:

TYBW Anime - Yhwach's First Feat as God

vsbattles.fandom.com

Casual High Large Star level Ywach

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Well, most Quincy characters straight-up show feats that put them above Top Tier Espadas.

For example, which feats?

If you say Byakuya, I don't find Byakuya's scaling in this wiki correct.

Kid Toshiro also felt the need to open Bankai even against Base Yammy. Since Harribel is holding him back, Toshiro doesn't scale. He only scales to Harribel with the attack he gets from the clouds.

While Rojo used a hollow mask against Starrk, Rojo use Bankai against Mask de Masqulin. HM>Bankai

Shinji used a hollow mask against 1-Armed Grimmjow and used Shikai against Bambietta.

Base Uluqiorra Shikai overpowered Urahara. In this wiki, Urahara is scaled to Aizen, but this is also an incorrect scaling. Urahara's Shikai in all vs's is at the same power level. Until he opens Bankai against Askin, he is always at the same level.

Shikai Shunsui can barely defeat an off guard Starrk with his own shikai hax. If Starrk wasn't off guard, he wouldn't have lost to Shunsui who doesn't use Bankai. There's nothing that shows that Tybw Shunsui>Arrancar Saga Shunsui. It could even be AS Shikai Shunsui>TYBW Shikai Shunsui. Because the character lost an eye. Yes, it's not as big as Grimmjow losing an arm, but this should be considered a nerf. Considering that Shunsui is a lazy character, why would this guy train to get stronger between Arrancar Saga and Tybw? Even if he did train, how much of a difference would it make? I remember the writer saying in an interview that people like Shunsui don't improve much with training. It's like someone wrote this in the general discussion section.

Wonderweis can damage a younger Yamamoto who has 2 arms. Discroll can't even scratch 1-armed Yamamoto despite using Chojiro's Bankai. I remember Aizen saying that Wonderweis is at the power level of an espada.

 

[Hellscream]

I made a Yhwach creates his Kingdom calculation from the Anime:

TYBW Anime - Yhwach's First Feat as God

vsbattles.fandom.com

Casual High Large Star level Ywach

 

[Deceived3596]

I made a Yhwach creates his Kingdom calculation from the Anime:

TYBW Anime - Yhwach's First Feat as God

vsbattles.fandom.com

Casual High Large Star level Ywach

Cool, now get it accepted

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

I made a Yhwach creates his Kingdom calculation from the Anime:

TYBW Anime - Yhwach's First Feat as God

vsbattles.fandom.com

Casual High Large Star level Ywach

Cool. I have no idea if this works or not, but it's neat.

Anyway, Apple, I don't think I told you this earlier, but your new profile picture is perfection.

 

[Myxenete]

If you say Byakuya, I don't find Byakuya's scaling in this wiki correct.

Could you expand on this?

Kid Toshiro also felt the need to open Bankai even against Base Yammy.

Base arrancar saga Toshiro is scaled as being unquantifiably above himself from the soul soceity arc, this doesn't change our scaling

Since Harribel is holding him back, Toshiro doesn't scale

Explicitly noted on his profile that he only scales to casual base Harribel, again doesn't change our scaling

While Rojo used a hollow mask against Starrk, Rojo use Bankai against Mask de Masqulin. HM>Bankai

Cheers Mask gets his multi-cont scaling from brutalizing Bankai Kensei and no-selling his attacks, both masked Rose and Kensei have higher A.P than that Mask per the current profiles, so this is also exactly the same

Shinji used a hollow mask against 1-Armed Grimmjow and used Shikai against Bambietta

I'm ngl to you whatsoever the claim that Shinji finds he need to resort to hax to get around Bambi while he thinks he can overpower Grimmjow does not in any way make Grimmjow seem stronger than Bambi, this wouldn't matter anyway since Shinji doesn't have any scaling to Bambi and even if he did, he simply could've gotten stronger, as several characters do throughout the series

Base Uluqiorra Shikai overpowered Urahara

No he didn't, he deflected a single attack that Kisuke states he intentionally made smimilar to Yammy's ceros, Base Ulq > Base Yamy is nothing crazy

Urahara's Shikai in all vs's is at the same power level. Until he opens Bankai against Askin, he is always at the same level.

You've asserted this without any reasoning to prove this whatsoever, anyway you'd be objectively wrong as Kisuke almost gets his arm cleaved off by Ichigo's very first Getsuga before the soul soceity arc, So unless you think Kisuke is capped out at like SS arc Ikkaku/Pre-Bankai Renji level, then yeah, Kisuke explicitly gets stronger

Shikai Shunsui can barely defeat an off guard Starrk with his own shikai hax. If Starrk wasn't off guard, he wouldn't have lost to Shunsui who doesn't use Bankai.

As noted on Shunsui's profile Unmasked explicitly tells us Shikai Shunsui exceeded Starrk's full powers

There's nothing that shows that Tybw Shunsui>Arrancar Saga Shunsui. It could even be AS Shikai Shunsui>TYBW Shikai Shunsui. Because the character lost an eye. Yes, it's not as big as Grimmjow losing an arm, but this should be considered a nerf. Considering that Shunsui is a lazy character, why would this guy train to get stronger between Arrancar Saga and Tybw? Even if he did train, how much of a difference would it make? I remember the writer saying in an interview that people like Shunsui don't improve much with training. It's like someone wrote this in the general discussion section.

As also explicitly noted on his profile we don't hold Shunsui as having gotten stronger after the timeskip, so you're just agreeing with the current scaling...again

Wonderweis can damage a younger Yamamoto who has 2 arms. Discroll can't even scratch 1-armed Yamamoto despite using Chojiro's Bankai. I remember Aizen saying that Wonderweis is at the power level of an espada

Well yes...it's almost like Wonderweiss is curently scaled as being far above Driscoll

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Could you expand on this?

I was going to explain this on CRT but let me say it now. Off guard can hit Yammy. Later, he can hit Yammy who was cut by Zaraki. Zaraki cut off a lot of Yammy's body parts and fingers. I also think Byakuya's Senbon should be considered as durability negation.

Base arrancar saga Toshiro is scaled as being unquantifiably above himself from the soul soceity arc, this doesn't change our scaling

I don't get what makes Toshiro seem stronger than before.

Explicitly noted on his profile that he only scales to casual base Harribel, again doesn't change our scaling

I think Toshiro shouldn't even scale to Base Harribel in that battle since Harribel isn't serious.

No he didn't, he deflected a single attack that Kisuke states he intentionally made smimilar to Yammy's ceros, Base Ulq > Base Yamy is nothing crazy

Uluqiorra believes that he can defeat Urahara and Yoruichi in a possible encounter. Also, an argument was used on Yammy's profile regarding Pesquisa, but Yammy cannot use Pesquisa well. According to Yammy, Uluqiorra, who uses Pesquisa better, describes Shikai Urahara and Yoruichi's power as trash.

As noted on Shunsui's profile Unmasked explicitly tells us Shikai Shunsui exceeded Starrk's full powers

This is the first time I've heard this Unmasked statement. But I'm sure he means not only Ap but also Hax. He defeats Starrk, who is already off guard, with his shikai hax. No one is better than Shunsui in the color game Shunsui makes with his shikai. If Shikai Shunsui was a power surpassing Starrk, it would be expected that he would be able to defeat him at the very beginning. But even Starrk, who was distracted, was able to react to his attack at the last moment. Shunsui saw Starrk's power as a threat and wanted to defeat him immediately.

My guess is that this statement covers Bankai Shunsui. Even if it specifically refers to the Shikai state, the hax of his Shikai should also be included.

Also, in the manga, Starrk didn't even use his wolves against Shunsui and it was stated that Starrk earned the number 1 spot thanks to his wolves.

 

[Myxenete]

Off guard can hit Yammy. Later, he can hit Yammy who was cut by Zaraki. Zaraki cut off a lot of Yammy's body parts and fingers

I think you're trying to say Yammy is weaker after Zaraki initially cuts him right? If so we don't have any evidence for this, both Byakuya and Zaraki maim Yammy's face pretty badly when they attack him at the same time, Zaraki finds Byakuya a worthy rival at this time which implies their comparability.

I don't get what makes Toshiro seem stronger than before

He trains...it's not a quantifiable difference he's just stronger because we know he trained

I think Toshiro shouldn't even scale to Base Harribel in that battle since Harribel isn't serious.

Again, he does not.

According to Yammy, Uluqiorra, who uses Pesquisa better, describes Shikai Urahara and Yoruichi's power as trash.

Ulquiorra did not say this, he denotes it would be specifically challenging for them to engage him while protecting Ichigo, Orihime and Chad, who he does regard as trash, as I mentioned before Kisuke is getting stronger as the story progresses anyway.

the first time I've heard this Unmasked statement. But I'm sure he means not only Ap but also Hax. He defeats Starrk, who is already off guard, with his shikai hax. No one is better than Shunsui in the color game Shunsui makes with his shikai. If Shikai Shunsui was a power surpassing Starrk, it would be expected that he would be able to defeat him at the very beginning. But even Starrk, who was distracted, was

Not necessarily, Shunsui can be stronger without there being an overwhelming difference in stats, they're still roughly comparable, speaking of iro Oni, Shunsui slashes starrk with enough force to sever his ar Starrk only retaining the limb because Iro Oni nerfs the damage, on the other hand when Starrk uses Iro Oni to amp his own attacks it's shown his slashes only lightly damage shunsui (Which is consistent with an off guard Cero only lightly burning Shunsui and Lisa yelling at shunsui for pretending to be hurt by it mind you) and it'sthe Iro Oni damage that's shown to deal any real damage to him, when Shunui uses Iro Oni to amp his attacks Starrk just gets one shot, all this is consistent with the idea that Shunsui is stringer but still roughly comparable to Starrk

Starrk didn't even use his wolves against Shunsui and it was stated that Starrk earned the number 1 spot thanks to his wolves.

No? The only statement we have about Starrk's wolves is Cien calling them one of the top 3 powers of Hueco Mundo outside Aizen and themself, Starrk claims the primera title cause he's just that strong period, possesing superior spiritual power to anyone below him, (these scans were found by Guacamolefletcher not me btw) and unmasked just claims that Starrk displayed power worthy of the primera title generally

I also think Byakuya's Senbon should be considered as durability negation.

Why?

 

[LordTracer]

Could you expand on this?

Obviously he means that Byakuya’s Post-Royal Guard Training key shouldn’t exist since Byakuya died in the first invasion

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

While we're on the subject of Espada, I'm thinking of making a CRT for the Arrancar saga in the future. If you ask me, most characters shouldn't be scaled to Yammy. From what I've seen on this wiki, Low tier Quincy>Espada is taken, but this is wrong. Should I release the CRT when Tybw part 3 is finished, or can I release it whenever I want since it's just the Arrancar saga?

I’ll debunk it whenever you make it

 

[Deceived3596]

I also think Byakuya's Senbon should be considered as durability negation.

Why?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Apollo, have you read the profiles? A lot of the questions you asked are answered by reading the profiles, clicking the links, and visiting the chapters referenced.

 

[Ped2018]

Asking if a Bleach fan reads the profiles

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Asking if a Bleach fan reads

fixed it for you

 

[OverlordDonnelly]

Asking if a Bleach fan reads*

Fixed that for you.

Edit: Oh damn, ninja'd

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Fixed that for you.

Edit: Oh damn, ninja'd

same brain cell

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

So true

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Expecting a Bleach fan to read is like expecting a million dollars to spawn right on your doorstep no strings attached.

Keep dreaming

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Hey, I read. When can I expect that million dollars prize?

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Hey, I read. When can I expect that million dollars prize?

2-3 years (In shinigami lifespan)

 

[LordTracer]

Hey, I read. When can I expect that million dollars prize?

You’re in an HST thread, you do not read-

 

[AnAverageUsername]

You’re in an HST thread, you do not read-

Actually I was in two, does that mean it cancels out

 

[LordTracer]

Actually I was in two, does that mean it cancels out

That’s even worse lmao

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Well damn my bad

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Actually I was in two, does that mean it cancels out

Unfortunately a negative times a negative doesn't always equal a positive

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Bro this is why I don't be powerscaling anymore, I'll just be listening to Punk Rock instead

 

[AppleLord]

Expecting a Bleach fan to read is like expecting a million dollars to spawn right on your doorstep no strings attached.

Keep dreaming

You can make it with Crypto