Peterdenman156
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I’m not sure if there’s anything interesting in this, but I got it from Klub Outside. Hopefully, it’ll be useful.
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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion
- Thread starter Zoro21043
- Start date
ReaperAndBlues
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I looked back at Ichigo's W/L rate post-TBIM and I can proudly say that people saying Ichigo is carried by genetics is on something.
1. Ichigo vs Bambis
Conditions: Ichigo held back
Result: Inconclusive due to interference from Yhwach, would've obviously won if he was trying to
2. Ichigo vs Yhwach (Round 2)
Conditions: Yhwach did not have the Almighty (first fight), none for fight 2
Result: Ichigo won fight 1 mid diff, round 2 Yhwach won low diff
3. Ichigo vs Uryu
Conditions: Ichigo was mentally nerfed
Result: Uryu won mid diff, although was implied to be inferior to Ichigo stat-wise and could've lost had he gone all out.
These fights have yet to be animated, so the outcomes are not set in stone.
4. Ichigo vs Askin
Conditions: None
Result: Askin won low diff via The Deathdealing
5. Ichigo vs Yhwach (Round 3)
Conditions: Ichigo had help from Orihime and planned to use Yhwach's reiatsu to awaken Horn of Salvation
Result: Yhwach won low-mid diff (He needed to use The Almighty to break his Zanpakuto, however, he very quickly dispatched Ichigo)
Ichigo vs Yhwach (Final Round)
Conditions: Aizen was occupying Yhwach with Kyoka Suigetsu and Uryu had the silver arrow
Result: Ichigo won mid diff (Had he not have anything go in his favor, he would've lost just the same as he did before)
Some people would look at this and still get mad because of Ichigo losing. You just can't win with some fanbases.
1. Ichigo vs Bambis
Conditions: Ichigo held back
Result: Inconclusive due to interference from Yhwach, would've obviously won if he was trying to
2. Ichigo vs Yhwach (Round 2)
Conditions: Yhwach did not have the Almighty (first fight), none for fight 2
Result: Ichigo won fight 1 mid diff, round 2 Yhwach won low diff
3. Ichigo vs Uryu
Conditions: Ichigo was mentally nerfed
Result: Uryu won mid diff, although was implied to be inferior to Ichigo stat-wise and could've lost had he gone all out.
These fights have yet to be animated, so the outcomes are not set in stone.
4. Ichigo vs Askin
Conditions: None
Result: Askin won low diff via The Deathdealing
5. Ichigo vs Yhwach (Round 3)
Conditions: Ichigo had help from Orihime and planned to use Yhwach's reiatsu to awaken Horn of Salvation
Result: Yhwach won low-mid diff (He needed to use The Almighty to break his Zanpakuto, however, he very quickly dispatched Ichigo)
Ichigo vs Yhwach (Final Round)
Conditions: Aizen was occupying Yhwach with Kyoka Suigetsu and Uryu had the silver arrow
Result: Ichigo won mid diff (Had he not have anything go in his favor, he would've lost just the same as he did before)
Some people would look at this and still get mad because of Ichigo losing. You just can't win with some fanbases.
PerezosoUlixes
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I think they should be at least relative but I would see her as the stronger one by context and statements.
Also, I just believe that every Espada should be equal or stronger than the precedent one in Resurrección. As an example, Nnoitra would be equal or stronger in Base than Grimmjow's Panthera. I could explain all the reasons behind this scaling chain of mine but I'm too lazy as of now.
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Btw, why isn’t isshin 4-A for his showings against second fusion Aizen?
ReaperAndBlues
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Databooks state his attacks were in vain
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New Episode means nothing to me, Uryu was holding back like a mf and Renji gonna be a bum once more
https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/779844639908823060/1308272217133678633/renji-fans-wont-like-that-v0-p0mxqplpvnud1.png?ex=673d56f3&is=673c0573&hm=c5f2219eba9bed5bf040eaf1e384809980445357192641fb2c561bc6ecea4fd6&
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Oh yeah , some fanboy really think Aizen was scared of Unohana and cant win against her , finally take thier L.
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Bro exaggerating her abilities
I love my girl Unohana but Aizen would body that hag no cap
But fr though you think this can be used to argue that Arrancar Arc Base Aizen is stronger than Soul Society self?
Might make sense if you think about him prepping for the war plus shoving the Hogyoku in his chest
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Fighting him doesn’t automatically put renji up there. I'm warning you. Don't follow that route for the better.
Yama above other, each sz member above gotei all would still stand. It's just uryu and renji's feat gonna be revalued.
Instead Gremmy 's scaking might become parameter for others
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You telling me Yammy fought Ulquiorra and everyone else for the position of Espada 0 but for some reason lets himself be abuse and spank around by Ulquiorra? I wouldn’t be surprised if these two were doing the nasty bend over prison style in secret. YammyxUlquiorra must abusive relationship in Latino origin in Bleach.
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Albeit he shouldn’t be so high like people are arguing now.
But Renji isn’t bam anymore.
Though weaker, he should still be able to compete against high tier captains.
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This is definitely fake! Don’t believe anything on twitter unless kubo confirms it in an official interview.
Ped2018
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Y'all are ignoring this...
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Even if it's true ,it change nothing.
We already knew that new scenes would be in the anime that wouldn't be in the manga, we already knew that the staff were giving Kubo's ideas and he decide to include them or not .
As long as Kubo keep overseeing things, TYBW anime is still canon.
We already knew that new scenes would be in the anime that wouldn't be in the manga, we already knew that the staff were giving Kubo's ideas and he decide to include them or not .
As long as Kubo keep overseeing things, TYBW anime is still canon.
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Kurbo cotraadickt da animu animu nt cannon anemor yll beachers jst copiuming 
ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn
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That depends on how the fight goes.
I'm just letting people know the possibility exists, which is why we should wait and see.
That depends on what happens (plus, we already have Kenpachi is Can't Fear Your Own World being far stronger than Yamamoto and Squad 0).
Why would Uryu's feats be reevaluated? His scaling pretty consistenly puts him above Yamamoto and above Squad 0.
For Renji, we just have to wait and see.
That would be fun.
ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn
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Cool.
That's an interesting thought. What's your reasoning for it?
My personal headcanon is that every Espada's base form is stronger than the previous Espada's Ressurecion. Why? Uh, good question.
ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn
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What does it say? I can't open the Imgur album, for some reason.
Excellence616
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Kubo actually said it.
Either Kubo is trolling or just want to make the manga relevant as much as the anime because Man has said it multiple times that he is adding things that wasn't in the manga in the anime.
You know Kubo can be funny at times with his answers
Apollonir.Scale
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While we're on the subject of Espada, I'm thinking of making a CRT for the Arrancar saga in the future. If you ask me, most characters shouldn't be scaled to Yammy. From what I've seen on this wiki, Low tier Quincy>Espada is taken, but this is wrong. Should I release the CRT when Tybw part 3 is finished, or can I release it whenever I want since it's just the Arrancar saga?
Peterdenman156
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It’s a card from Klub Outside related to Anime Cour 3. I thought it looked interesting, so I brought it to show you in case it has some useful information.
PerezosoUlixes
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Well, most Quincy characters straight-up show feats that put them above Top Tier Espadas.
PerezosoUlixes
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The most simple reasoning I can give is just going by Nnoitra statements and Ichigo's feats. I've spent a lot of time justifying my claims in my blogs from another Wiki I work on, but it's all in Spanish and would be so time-consuming to translate everything from there. Also, I don't know if it's allowed to post something from other Wikis here or even mentioning them, so I'll avoid this.
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The statement was made for tybw. It was made even after their training.
There's a time skip until zaraki reached that power lol
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I took a look with Google Translate, the only interesting things I noticed were Aizen being described as having a "transcendent presence and causing tension in others", as well as several claims about the world being destroyed/Mimihagi saving the world from destruction.
Peterdenman156
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I think that Kubo-sensei is not someone who would give answers without reason. When he answers questions in Klub Outside, I've seen him mention rereading the content of Bleach before responding.Bro exaggerating her abilities
I love my girl Unohana but Aizen would body that hag no cap
But fr though you think this can be used to argue that Arrancar Arc Base Aizen is stronger than Soul Society self?
Might make sense if you think about him prepping for the war plus shoving the Hogyoku in his chest
Of course, at that time, Aizen had not yet obtained Urahara's Hogyoku. However, Aizen already had Kyoka Suigetsu, which he had previously used against Unohana. She would likely be affected by Kyoka Suigetsu the moment she fought Aizen. But with her experience, Unohana probably wouldn't lose to Base Aizen as easily as when Base Aizen defeated the entire Gotei 13 during the Arrancar Arc.
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Great deal of effort means aizen would face difficulties even with his shikai.
That would have been same for yamamoto. If his bankai's destructibility didn’t handicap him.
ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn
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Can you post the statement again?
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I made a Yhwach creates his Kingdom calculation from the Anime:
vsbattles.fandom.com
Casual High Large Star level Ywach
TYBW Anime - Yhwach's First Feat as God
vsbattles.fandom.com
Casual High Large Star level Ywach
Apollonir.Scale
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For example, which feats?
If you say Byakuya, I don't find Byakuya's scaling in this wiki correct.
Kid Toshiro also felt the need to open Bankai even against Base Yammy. Since Harribel is holding him back, Toshiro doesn't scale. He only scales to Harribel with the attack he gets from the clouds.
While Rojo used a hollow mask against Starrk, Rojo use Bankai against Mask de Masqulin. HM>Bankai
Shinji used a hollow mask against 1-Armed Grimmjow and used Shikai against Bambietta.
Base Uluqiorra Shikai overpowered Urahara. In this wiki, Urahara is scaled to Aizen, but this is also an incorrect scaling. Urahara's Shikai in all vs's is at the same power level. Until he opens Bankai against Askin, he is always at the same level.
Shikai Shunsui can barely defeat an off guard Starrk with his own shikai hax. If Starrk wasn't off guard, he wouldn't have lost to Shunsui who doesn't use Bankai. There's nothing that shows that Tybw Shunsui>Arrancar Saga Shunsui. It could even be AS Shikai Shunsui>TYBW Shikai Shunsui. Because the character lost an eye. Yes, it's not as big as Grimmjow losing an arm, but this should be considered a nerf. Considering that Shunsui is a lazy character, why would this guy train to get stronger between Arrancar Saga and Tybw? Even if he did train, how much of a difference would it make? I remember the writer saying in an interview that people like Shunsui don't improve much with training. It's like someone wrote this in the general discussion section.
Wonderweis can damage a younger Yamamoto who has 2 arms. Discroll can't even scratch 1-armed Yamamoto despite using Chojiro's Bankai. I remember Aizen saying that Wonderweis is at the power level of an espada.
Hellscream
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I made a Yhwach creates his Kingdom calculation from the Anime:
TYBW Anime - Yhwach's First Feat as God
Casual High Large Star level Ywach
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Cool, now get it acceptedI made a Yhwach creates his Kingdom calculation from the Anime:
TYBW Anime - Yhwach's First Feat as God
Casual High Large Star level Ywach
ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn
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Cool. I have no idea if this works or not, but it's neat.I made a Yhwach creates his Kingdom calculation from the Anime:
TYBW Anime - Yhwach's First Feat as God
Casual High Large Star level Ywach
Anyway, Apple, I don't think I told you this earlier, but your new profile picture is perfection.
Myxenete
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Could you expand on this?
Base arrancar saga Toshiro is scaled as being unquantifiably above himself from the soul soceity arc, this doesn't change our scaling
Explicitly noted on his profile that he only scales to casual base Harribel, again doesn't change our scaling
Cheers Mask gets his multi-cont scaling from brutalizing Bankai Kensei and no-selling his attacks, both masked Rose and Kensei have higher A.P than that Mask per the current profiles, so this is also exactly the same
I'm ngl to you whatsoever the claim that Shinji finds he need to resort to hax to get around Bambi while he thinks he can overpower Grimmjow does not in any way make Grimmjow seem stronger than Bambi, this wouldn't matter anyway since Shinji doesn't have any scaling to Bambi and even if he did, he simply could've gotten stronger, as several characters do throughout the series
No he didn't, he deflected a single attack that Kisuke states he intentionally made smimilar to Yammy's ceros, Base Ulq > Base Yamy is nothing crazy
You've asserted this without any reasoning to prove this whatsoever, anyway you'd be objectively wrong as Kisuke almost gets his arm cleaved off by Ichigo's very first Getsuga before the soul soceity arc, So unless you think Kisuke is capped out at like SS arc Ikkaku/Pre-Bankai Renji level, then yeah, Kisuke explicitly gets stronger
As noted on Shunsui's profile Unmasked explicitly tells us Shikai Shunsui exceeded Starrk's full powers
As also explicitly noted on his profile we don't hold Shunsui as having gotten stronger after the timeskip, so you're just agreeing with the current scaling...again
Well yes...it's almost like Wonderweiss is curently scaled as being far above Driscoll
Apollonir.Scale
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I was going to explain this on CRT but let me say it now. Off guard can hit Yammy. Later, he can hit Yammy who was cut by Zaraki. Zaraki cut off a lot of Yammy's body parts and fingers. I also think Byakuya's Senbon should be considered as durability negation.
I don't get what makes Toshiro seem stronger than before.
I think Toshiro shouldn't even scale to Base Harribel in that battle since Harribel isn't serious.
Uluqiorra believes that he can defeat Urahara and Yoruichi in a possible encounter. Also, an argument was used on Yammy's profile regarding Pesquisa, but Yammy cannot use Pesquisa well. According to Yammy, Uluqiorra, who uses Pesquisa better, describes Shikai Urahara and Yoruichi's power as trash.
This is the first time I've heard this Unmasked statement. But I'm sure he means not only Ap but also Hax. He defeats Starrk, who is already off guard, with his shikai hax. No one is better than Shunsui in the color game Shunsui makes with his shikai. If Shikai Shunsui was a power surpassing Starrk, it would be expected that he would be able to defeat him at the very beginning. But even Starrk, who was distracted, was able to react to his attack at the last moment. Shunsui saw Starrk's power as a threat and wanted to defeat him immediately.
My guess is that this statement covers Bankai Shunsui. Even if it specifically refers to the Shikai state, the hax of his Shikai should also be included.
Also, in the manga, Starrk didn't even use his wolves against Shunsui and it was stated that Starrk earned the number 1 spot thanks to his wolves.
Myxenete
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I think you're trying to say Yammy is weaker after Zaraki initially cuts him right? If so we don't have any evidence for this, both Byakuya and Zaraki maim Yammy's face pretty badly when they attack him at the same time, Zaraki finds Byakuya a worthy rival at this time which implies their comparability.
He trains...it's not a quantifiable difference he's just stronger because we know he trained
Again, he does not.
Ulquiorra did not say this, he denotes it would be specifically challenging for them to engage him while protecting Ichigo, Orihime and Chad, who he does regard as trash, as I mentioned before Kisuke is getting stronger as the story progresses anyway.
Not necessarily, Shunsui can be stronger without there being an overwhelming difference in stats, they're still roughly comparable, speaking of iro Oni, Shunsui slashes starrk with enough force to sever his ar Starrk only retaining the limb because Iro Oni nerfs the damage, on the other hand when Starrk uses Iro Oni to amp his own attacks it's shown his slashes only lightly damage shunsui (Which is consistent with an off guard Cero only lightly burning Shunsui and Lisa yelling at shunsui for pretending to be hurt by it mind you) and it'sthe Iro Oni damage that's shown to deal any real damage to him, when Shunui uses Iro Oni to amp his attacks Starrk just gets one shot, all this is consistent with the idea that Shunsui is stringer but still roughly comparable to Starrk
No? The only statement we have about Starrk's wolves is Cien calling them one of the top 3 powers of Hueco Mundo outside Aizen and themself, Starrk claims the primera title cause he's just that strong period, possesing superior spiritual power to anyone below him, (these scans were found by Guacamolefletcher not me btw) and unmasked just claims that Starrk displayed power worthy of the primera title generally
Why?
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I’ll debunk it whenever you make it
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