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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

PerezosoUlixes said:
I think they should be at least relative but I would see her as the stronger one by context and statements.
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Cool.
PerezosoUlixes said:
Also, I just believe that every Espada should be equal or stronger than the precedent one in Resurrección. As an example, Nnoitra would be equal or stronger in Base than Grimmjow's Panthera. I could explain all the reasons behind this scaling chain of mine but I'm too lazy as of now.
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That's an interesting thought. What's your reasoning for it?

My personal headcanon is that every Espada's base form is stronger than the previous Espada's Ressurecion. Why? Uh, good question.
 
AppleLord said:
I’m about to end this man’s whole carrier…

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Kubo actually said it.

Either Kubo is trolling or just want to make the manga relevant as much as the anime because Man has said it multiple times that he is adding things that wasn't in the manga in the anime.

You know Kubo can be funny at times with his answers
 
While we're on the subject of Espada, I'm thinking of making a CRT for the Arrancar saga in the future. If you ask me, most characters shouldn't be scaled to Yammy. From what I've seen on this wiki, Low tier Quincy>Espada is taken, but this is wrong. Should I release the CRT when Tybw part 3 is finished, or can I release it whenever I want since it's just the Arrancar saga?
 
Does Grimmjow get a speed upgrade? Ichigo (who was running) lost track of him while Grimmjow was running after Askin.
 
Apollonir.Scale said:
While we're on the subject of Espada, I'm thinking of making a CRT for the Arrancar saga in the future. If you ask me, most characters shouldn't be scaled to Yammy. From what I've seen on this wiki, Low tier Quincy>Espada is taken, but this is wrong. Should I release the CRT when Tybw part 3 is finished, or can I release it whenever I want since it's just the Arrancar saga?
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Well, most Quincy characters straight-up show feats that put them above Top Tier Espadas.
 
ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn said:
Cool.

That's an interesting thought. What's your reasoning for it?

My personal headcanon is that every Espada's base form is stronger than the previous Espada's Ressurecion. Why? Uh, good question.
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The most simple reasoning I can give is just going by Nnoitra statements and Ichigo's feats. I've spent a lot of time justifying my claims in my blogs from another Wiki I work on, but it's all in Spanish and would be so time-consuming to translate everything from there. Also, I don't know if it's allowed to post something from other Wikis here or even mentioning them, so I'll avoid this.
 
AnimesFreak2 said:
Bro exaggerating her abilities

I love my girl Unohana but Aizen would body that hag no cap 🥱

But fr though you think this can be used to argue that Arrancar Arc Base Aizen is stronger than Soul Society self?

Might make sense if you think about him prepping for the war plus shoving the Hogyoku in his chest
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I think that Kubo-sensei is not someone who would give answers without reason. When he answers questions in Klub Outside, I've seen him mention rereading the content of Bleach before responding.

Of course, at that time, Aizen had not yet obtained Urahara's Hogyoku. However, Aizen already had Kyoka Suigetsu, which he had previously used against Unohana. She would likely be affected by Kyoka Suigetsu the moment she fought Aizen. But with her experience, Unohana probably wouldn't lose to Base Aizen as easily as when Base Aizen defeated the entire Gotei 13 during the Arrancar Arc.
 
Peterdenman156 said:
I think that Kubo-sensei is not someone who would give answers without reason. When he answers questions in Klub Outside, I've seen him mention rereading the content of Bleach before responding.

Of course, at that time, Aizen had not yet obtained Urahara's Hogyoku. However, Aizen already had Kyoka Suigetsu, which he had previously used against Unohana. She would likely be affected by Kyoka Suigetsu the moment she fought Aizen. But with her experience, Unohana probably wouldn't lose to Base Aizen as easily as when Base Aizen defeated the entire Gotei 13 during the Arrancar Arc.
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Great deal of effort means aizen would face difficulties even with his shikai.
That would have been same for yamamoto. If his bankai's destructibility didn’t handicap him.

 
PerezosoUlixes said:
Well, most Quincy characters straight-up show feats that put them above Top Tier Espadas.
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For example, which feats?

If you say Byakuya, I don't find Byakuya's scaling in this wiki correct.

Kid Toshiro also felt the need to open Bankai even against Base Yammy. Since Harribel is holding him back, Toshiro doesn't scale. He only scales to Harribel with the attack he gets from the clouds.

While Rojo used a hollow mask against Starrk, Rojo use Bankai against Mask de Masqulin. HM>Bankai

Shinji used a hollow mask against 1-Armed Grimmjow and used Shikai against Bambietta.

Base Uluqiorra Shikai overpowered Urahara. In this wiki, Urahara is scaled to Aizen, but this is also an incorrect scaling. Urahara's Shikai in all vs's is at the same power level. Until he opens Bankai against Askin, he is always at the same level.

Shikai Shunsui can barely defeat an off guard Starrk with his own shikai hax. If Starrk wasn't off guard, he wouldn't have lost to Shunsui who doesn't use Bankai. There's nothing that shows that Tybw Shunsui>Arrancar Saga Shunsui. It could even be AS Shikai Shunsui>TYBW Shikai Shunsui. Because the character lost an eye. Yes, it's not as big as Grimmjow losing an arm, but this should be considered a nerf. Considering that Shunsui is a lazy character, why would this guy train to get stronger between Arrancar Saga and Tybw? Even if he did train, how much of a difference would it make? I remember the writer saying in an interview that people like Shunsui don't improve much with training. It's like someone wrote this in the general discussion section.

Wonderweis can damage a younger Yamamoto who has 2 arms. Discroll can't even scratch 1-armed Yamamoto despite using Chojiro's Bankai. I remember Aizen saying that Wonderweis is at the power level of an espada.
 
Apollonir.Scale said:
If you say Byakuya, I don't find Byakuya's scaling in this wiki correct.
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Could you expand on this?
Apollonir.Scale said:
Kid Toshiro also felt the need to open Bankai even against Base Yammy.
Click to expand...
Base arrancar saga Toshiro is scaled as being unquantifiably above himself from the soul soceity arc, this doesn't change our scaling
Apollonir.Scale said:
Since Harribel is holding him back, Toshiro doesn't scale
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Explicitly noted on his profile that he only scales to casual base Harribel, again doesn't change our scaling
Apollonir.Scale said:
While Rojo used a hollow mask against Starrk, Rojo use Bankai against Mask de Masqulin. HM>Bankai
Click to expand...
Cheers Mask gets his multi-cont scaling from brutalizing Bankai Kensei and no-selling his attacks, both masked Rose and Kensei have higher A.P than that Mask per the current profiles, so this is also exactly the same
Apollonir.Scale said:
Shinji used a hollow mask against 1-Armed Grimmjow and used Shikai against Bambietta
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I'm ngl to you whatsoever the claim that Shinji finds he need to resort to hax to get around Bambi while he thinks he can overpower Grimmjow does not in any way make Grimmjow seem stronger than Bambi, this wouldn't matter anyway since Shinji doesn't have any scaling to Bambi and even if he did, he simply could've gotten stronger, as several characters do throughout the series
Apollonir.Scale said:
Base Uluqiorra Shikai overpowered Urahara
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No he didn't, he deflected a single attack that Kisuke states he intentionally made smimilar to Yammy's ceros, Base Ulq > Base Yamy is nothing crazy
Apollonir.Scale said:
Urahara's Shikai in all vs's is at the same power level. Until he opens Bankai against Askin, he is always at the same level.
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You've asserted this without any reasoning to prove this whatsoever, anyway you'd be objectively wrong as Kisuke almost gets his arm cleaved off by Ichigo's very first Getsuga before the soul soceity arc, So unless you think Kisuke is capped out at like SS arc Ikkaku/Pre-Bankai Renji level, then yeah, Kisuke explicitly gets stronger
Apollonir.Scale said:
Shikai Shunsui can barely defeat an off guard Starrk with his own shikai hax. If Starrk wasn't off guard, he wouldn't have lost to Shunsui who doesn't use Bankai.
Click to expand...
As noted on Shunsui's profile Unmasked explicitly tells us Shikai Shunsui exceeded Starrk's full powers
Apollonir.Scale said:
There's nothing that shows that Tybw Shunsui>Arrancar Saga Shunsui. It could even be AS Shikai Shunsui>TYBW Shikai Shunsui. Because the character lost an eye. Yes, it's not as big as Grimmjow losing an arm, but this should be considered a nerf. Considering that Shunsui is a lazy character, why would this guy train to get stronger between Arrancar Saga and Tybw? Even if he did train, how much of a difference would it make? I remember the writer saying in an interview that people like Shunsui don't improve much with training. It's like someone wrote this in the general discussion section.
Click to expand...
As also explicitly noted on his profile we don't hold Shunsui as having gotten stronger after the timeskip, so you're just agreeing with the current scaling...again
Apollonir.Scale said:
Wonderweis can damage a younger Yamamoto who has 2 arms. Discroll can't even scratch 1-armed Yamamoto despite using Chojiro's Bankai. I remember Aizen saying that Wonderweis is at the power level of an espada
Click to expand...
Well yes...it's almost like Wonderweiss is curently scaled as being far above Driscoll
 
Myxenete said:
Could you expand on this?
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I was going to explain this on CRT but let me say it now. Off guard can hit Yammy. Later, he can hit Yammy who was cut by Zaraki. Zaraki cut off a lot of Yammy's body parts and fingers. I also think Byakuya's Senbon should be considered as durability negation.
Myxenete said:
Base arrancar saga Toshiro is scaled as being unquantifiably above himself from the soul soceity arc, this doesn't change our scaling
Click to expand...
I don't get what makes Toshiro seem stronger than before.
Myxenete said:
Explicitly noted on his profile that he only scales to casual base Harribel, again doesn't change our scaling
Click to expand...
I think Toshiro shouldn't even scale to Base Harribel in that battle since Harribel isn't serious.
Myxenete said:
No he didn't, he deflected a single attack that Kisuke states he intentionally made smimilar to Yammy's ceros, Base Ulq > Base Yamy is nothing crazy
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Uluqiorra believes that he can defeat Urahara and Yoruichi in a possible encounter. Also, an argument was used on Yammy's profile regarding Pesquisa, but Yammy cannot use Pesquisa well. According to Yammy, Uluqiorra, who uses Pesquisa better, describes Shikai Urahara and Yoruichi's power as trash.
Myxenete said:
As noted on Shunsui's profile Unmasked explicitly tells us Shikai Shunsui exceeded Starrk's full powers
Click to expand...
This is the first time I've heard this Unmasked statement. But I'm sure he means not only Ap but also Hax. He defeats Starrk, who is already off guard, with his shikai hax. No one is better than Shunsui in the color game Shunsui makes with his shikai. If Shikai Shunsui was a power surpassing Starrk, it would be expected that he would be able to defeat him at the very beginning. But even Starrk, who was distracted, was able to react to his attack at the last moment. Shunsui saw Starrk's power as a threat and wanted to defeat him immediately.

My guess is that this statement covers Bankai Shunsui. Even if it specifically refers to the Shikai state, the hax of his Shikai should also be included.

Also, in the manga, Starrk didn't even use his wolves against Shunsui and it was stated that Starrk earned the number 1 spot thanks to his wolves.
 
Apollonir.Scale said:
Off guard can hit Yammy. Later, he can hit Yammy who was cut by Zaraki. Zaraki cut off a lot of Yammy's body parts and fingers
Click to expand...
I think you're trying to say Yammy is weaker after Zaraki initially cuts him right? If so we don't have any evidence for this, both Byakuya and Zaraki maim Yammy's face pretty badly when they attack him at the same time, Zaraki finds Byakuya a worthy rival at this time which implies their comparability.
Apollonir.Scale said:
I don't get what makes Toshiro seem stronger than before
Click to expand...
He trains...it's not a quantifiable difference he's just stronger because we know he trained
Apollonir.Scale said:
I think Toshiro shouldn't even scale to Base Harribel in that battle since Harribel isn't serious.
Click to expand...
Again, he does not.
Apollonir.Scale said:
According to Yammy, Uluqiorra, who uses Pesquisa better, describes Shikai Urahara and Yoruichi's power as trash.
Click to expand...
Ulquiorra did not say this, he denotes it would be specifically challenging for them to engage him while protecting Ichigo, Orihime and Chad, who he does regard as trash, as I mentioned before Kisuke is getting stronger as the story progresses anyway.
Apollonir.Scale said:
the first time I've heard this Unmasked statement. But I'm sure he means not only Ap but also Hax. He defeats Starrk, who is already off guard, with his shikai hax. No one is better than Shunsui in the color game Shunsui makes with his shikai. If Shikai Shunsui was a power surpassing Starrk, it would be expected that he would be able to defeat him at the very beginning. But even Starrk, who was distracted, was
Click to expand...

Not necessarily, Shunsui can be stronger without there being an overwhelming difference in stats, they're still roughly comparable, speaking of iro Oni, Shunsui slashes starrk with enough force to sever his ar Starrk only retaining the limb because Iro Oni nerfs the damage, on the other hand when Starrk uses Iro Oni to amp his own attacks it's shown his slashes only lightly damage shunsui (Which is consistent with an off guard Cero only lightly burning Shunsui and Lisa yelling at shunsui for pretending to be hurt by it mind you) and it'sthe Iro Oni damage that's shown to deal any real damage to him, when Shunui uses Iro Oni to amp his attacks Starrk just gets one shot, all this is consistent with the idea that Shunsui is stringer but still roughly comparable to Starrk
Apollonir.Scale said:
Starrk didn't even use his wolves against Shunsui and it was stated that Starrk earned the number 1 spot thanks to his wolves.
Click to expand...
No? The only statement we have about Starrk's wolves is Cien calling them one of the top 3 powers of Hueco Mundo outside Aizen and themself, Starrk claims the primera title cause he's just that strong period, possesing superior spiritual power to anyone below him, (these scans were found by Guacamolefletcher not me btw) and unmasked just claims that Starrk displayed power worthy of the primera title generally
Apollonir.Scale said:
I also think Byakuya's Senbon should be considered as durability negation.
Click to expand...
Why?
 
Apollonir.Scale said:
While we're on the subject of Espada, I'm thinking of making a CRT for the Arrancar saga in the future. If you ask me, most characters shouldn't be scaled to Yammy. From what I've seen on this wiki, Low tier Quincy>Espada is taken, but this is wrong. Should I release the CRT when Tybw part 3 is finished, or can I release it whenever I want since it's just the Arrancar saga?
Click to expand...
I’ll debunk it whenever you make it 👍
 
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