Awarding Boruto Many Success Achievements Via Shippuden Achievements Of Success

[UchihaSlayer96]

I know we moved on but in One Piece, 6-A characters like Oden can die to 9-C flintlocks

Holy mother of Whataboutism...

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Holy mother of Whataboutism...

Just an example; obviously it’s a different verse but my point stands

I don’t want to derail and generate an argument, we can move on

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Also, to quote myself from another thread of mine, here's a short list of piercing attacks being irrelevant in Naruto. As you'll all find, this is even more prominent when chakra cloaks/constructs are involved, so Naruto being off-guard against Shin is irrelevant as he had his chakra cloak active at the time.

• Additionally, it's not like piercing or cutting damage is a guaranteed free hit in Naruto to begin with. Here are examples of piercing/cutting attacks being partially or completely negated.
  • Here's the 3rd Raikage taking the Rasenshuriken with minor damage, which is essentially the epitome of piercing/cutting attacks in the verse due to its countless cellular sized blades attacking its target simultaneously. (Naruto Chapter 554)
  • Here's KN4 Naruto taking Orochimaru's Kusanagi blade with no damage, even though he didn't really see it coming until the last second. (Naruto Chapter 296)
  • Here's Obito blocking Suigetsu's sword swing with his bare hands. (Naruto Chapter 404)
  • Here's the Raikage no-selling Sasuke's Chidori blade. And no, his Raiton Armor wouldn't be the sole reason for him tanking it here because Sasuke's own Raiton would pretty much match and nullify its advantage. (Naruto Chapter 462)
  • Here's Sasuke's Susano'o no-selling Danzo's Kunai. (Naruto Chapter 477)
  • Here's KCM Nard blocking a bunch of swords. (Naruto Chapter 559)
  • Here's Madara's Susano'o blocking A's chop. (Naruto Chapter 563)
  • Here's an already injured Madara taking a point-blank Rasenshuriken. (Naruto Chapter 673)
  • Here's Momoshiki no-selling Sasuke's attempt to decapitate him. (Boruto Chapter 7)

So, hopefully this argument just goes away. Comparable character harming each other with bladed weaponry isn't an anti-feat for the characters or a feat for the weapons. It only means the characters are comparable, and can harm each other with weapons because they're comparable.

 

[KLOL506]

I know we moved on but in One Piece, 6-A characters like Oden can die to 9-C flintlocks

Thor dies to sewage wires and fears dying from a fall

Hulk gets overpowered by pythons and gorillas

Superman is consistently threatened by nukes in comics and movies, as is Green Lantern (He is threatened by nukes in the comics even more so)

Martian Manhunter's weakness is literally ******* fire

WONDER WOMAN IS LITERALLY THREATENED BY ANY KIND OF SHARP, POINTY OBJECT (Her Golden Age version's weakness was also literally getting tied up with any sort of rope or whatever)

Darkseid gets his ass whupped by gangsters

Thanos gets arrested by the NYPD

Granolah gets one-shot by a handgun

Goku gets crapped on by an oncoming train

Kratos struggles to lift chests in gameplay but Word of God explicitly states that he can lift the world just like Atlas does (And literally fodderizes Cronos, the king of the Titans and the Olympians who is only slightly weaker than his nephew Atlas in in terms of physical strength, and was literally the guy who instigated the Cycle of Son-Killing-Father by killing his own father Uranus, who created the Greek Universe as confirmed verbatim in the comics and in the Ascension Artbook)

Dante gets stabbed by everything repeatedly yet he can fodderize Demon Kings who can merge universes just by existing

Tier 8 characters getting fodderized by bullets and knives consistently, even Tier 7, 6, 5 and 4 characters get threatened by ordinary knives and handguns

This is nothing new, people will moan about anything these days, even try to play "Devil's Advocate" to downgrade characters to these absurd levels of downplay just for the sake of it even though narrative wise their feats are considered to be much, much higher (Even if these feats aren't higher in number than the anti-feats, the higher feats will almost always play a significant role to the story, and most anti-feats are mostly put in there for tension to the story and are not representative of the character's true strength, if they were at that level that many times the story would become boring quite quickly), and all of these anti-feats are either immediately contradicted with ludicrously higher showings or are straight up shown to have reasonable explanations for why they fluctuate and may not actually exist in canon (Like in video games where balance is a thing). It isn't just consistency that determines us putting them in higher tiers than just leaving them stuck at Tier 7 or Tier 9, it's consistency with context.

 

[Damage3245]

I'm sure I've commented it before on here, but I don't mind if Shin scales to Naruto/Sasuke with his MS ability.

 

[45Saef]

Shippuden

Spoiler: Hagoromo and Hamura

Hagoromo and Hamura​

Hagoromo and Hamura will form the basis of the God Tier scaling with their combined feat of hurling the Moon into orbit. They simply scale to the value listed in the results section.

Hagoromo’s AP = 78.2 ZT (5-B)
Hamura’s AP = 78.2 ZT (5-B)

Spoiler: Madara featuring Guy

Madara​

The imgur explains the reasoning behind my premise, but to put it simply, Dual Rinnegan Juubidara (the strongest we see him get) scales to Hagoromo through this scaling chain:

One Rinnegan Juubidara = close to Hagoromo < Shinju-Absorbed Juubidara < Dual Rinnegan Juubidara ~ Hagoromo = 5-B

Via pure power scaling, specifically the bolded portion, it should be abundantly clear that Juubidara at his peak should be scaling relative to Hagoromo. Doubly so when you consider Juubidara got beyond a “one shot” level amp from single Rinnegan to two Rinnegan (went from being obliterated by SPSM Naruto’s Rasenshuriken with one eye to being able to fight both SPSM KCM Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke simultaneously). Juubidara being close to Hagoromo’s power and then receiving a beyond “one shot” level amp should be enough evidence alone to scale peak Juubidara to Hagoromo.

Furthermore, the narrative around Juubidara’s ever increasing power is that he wants to obtain a power similar to that of Kaguya. We see this brought to the forefront as Juubidara gets betrayed and defeated by his own hubris (manifested in the form of Madara believing Black Zetsu is his will alone and that he cannot be used like he used Obito). Then Naruto flashes back to Hagoromo claiming Madara is nearing his own power, to Hagoromo claiming that Madara wants to get Kaguya’s power but that Kaguya’s power gives rise to self-destruction through hubris. This is what literally happens, Madara obtains Hagoromo’s power and when he tries to go further and obtain Kaguya’s power, he is undone by the rise of his own hubris. The narrative of Madara’s rise to power is that he climbs to the Sage of Six Paths level only to be overwhelmed and consumed in pursuit of Kaguya’s power.

But wait, there’s more! The databooks themselves directly state that when Juubidara got both eyes he unleashed the true power of the Six Paths, which heavily implies and all but directly confirms that Dual Rinnegan Juubidara reached Hagoromo’s power level. Six Paths refers to Hagoromo inherently, as Hagoromo is the Sage of Six Paths, and the namesake of those famous powers as known by the ninja world. Thus, awakening the true power of the Six Paths would inherently refer to unleashing the actual power of Hagoromo. Again this adds just further layers of consistency to Madara being this strong.

Additionally, Dual Rinnegan Juubidara casually spreads the God Tree roots around the world with his own energy. This feat is calculated to Small Planetary as a lowball. This feat serves as a solid supporting feat to the scaling I’m proposing for Madara. The preponderance of evidence for Madara scaling to Hagoromo is ever-so-increasing.

Finally, to touch upon Juubidara with a single Rinnegan. Hagaromo states he's getting close to himself in power, if Madara is nearing Hagaromo in power that would imply he's closer to Hagoromo in power than he is further from Hagoromo in power. This would mean One Rinnegan Juubidara should be over half way to Hagoromo's power. As consequence of this Night Guy would scale as well, since he was breaking Madara's body.

To conclude everything I’ve brought up, via powerscaling, narrative intent, and statements, Dual Rinnegan Juubidara is put on the same level of power as Hagoromo. One Rinnegan Juubidara scales above a power that rivals Hagoromo and is getting close to Hagoromo himself, and upon receiving multiple huge amps awakens to Dual Rinnegan Juubidara, unleashing power on par with Hagoromo, until eventually in attempts of pursuing a power beyond Hagoromo he falls to his own hubris. Therefore, Dual Rinnegan Juubidara should scale to Hagoromo. As far as quantifying weaker forms of Juubidara, I’m neutral on that and am open to suggestions.

Night Guy = 39.1 ZT (Low 5-B+)
Single Rinnegan Juubidara = 39.1 ZT (Low 5-B+)
Dual Rinnegan Juubidara = 78.2 ZT (5-B)

Spoiler: Kaguya

Kaguya​

Kaguya is blatantly superior to Juubidara, Hagoromo, Hamura, and the like. She’s fairly objectively the strongest character in Shippuden. She performs better against Naruto and Sasuke than Dual Rinnegan Juubidara and is stated to be stronger than him.

Kaguya > 78.2 ZT (5-B)

Spoiler: Naruto and Sasuke

Naruto and Sasuke​

Naruto and Sasuke are pretty blatant in terms of scaling as well. SPSM KCM Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke are able to fight Dual Rinnegan Juubidara, hold their own briefly against Kaguya, and in Naruto’s case he’s even able to momentarily overpower Kaguya with certain techniques. So, clearly I believe both of them should simply scale off of Dual Rinnegan Juubidara.

Now to touch on a single contention I can foresee appearing, Hagoromo giving Naruto and Sasuke half his chakra each. A lot of people use this event to scale Naruto and Sasuke to half of Hagoromo’s power and I think opponents to my proposal will use it in an attempt to downplay Dual Rinnegan Juubidara and/or Naruto and Sasuke. However, doing such is just blatantly incorrect, and I’ll explain why. First, Naruto and Sasuke are more than just half of Hagoromo’s chakra. They both have their own sources of chakra and upon receiving Hagoromo chakra, it blended with their own and evolved them to new heights (Naruto got an entire new transformation and Sasuke got an entire new eye). This just means that Hagoromo does not serve at all as a limiter to Naruto and Sasuke’s power. Secondly, as is well established, chakra amount and attack potency aren’t inherently 1:1 in every situation, meaning Naruto and Sasuke can have half of Hagoromo’s chakra but scale above half of Hagoromo’s power without creating any contradictions. Honestly, that is why I prefer to scale Naruto and Sasuke simply to Dual Rinnegan Juubidara, as that line of scaling is far simpler and offers no inherent contradictions.

SPSM KCM Naruto = 78.2 ZT (5-B)
Rinnegan Sasuke = 78.2 ZT (5-B)

Spoiler: Scaling Chain

Scaling Chain​

Hagoromo >~ One Rinnegan Juubidara < Shinju-Absorbed Juubidara < Dual Rinnegan Juubidara ~ Hagoromo = Hamura = 5-B ~ SPSM KCM Naruto ~ Rinnegan Sasuke ~< Kaguya

What I am proposing as “concrete” is that Hamura, Hagoromo, Dual Rinnegan Juubidara, SPSM KCM Naruto, Rinnegan Sasuke, and Kaguya scale to or above the Planetary feat. What I am leaving up for discussing is quantifying downscaling, say for characters like One Rinnegan Juubidara.

The Last

Spoiler: Toneri

Toneri​

The imgur covers most of what I want to convey, but to put it more clearly I’ll convey it in the form of a scaling chain and then elaborate. There are two potential scaling chains:

Toneri with Tenseigan chakra (TCM) < Toneri with Tenseigan and BSM chakra (Light of Justice) = power of Hamura = 5-B
OR
5-B = Hamura < Hamura with Tenseigan > Hamura’s Tenseigan without Hamura < Hamura’s Tenseigan with additional Byakugan without Hamura = Toneri’s Complete Tenseigan

The top scaling chain is the minimum interpretation that I will now explain. Toneri equates the Light of Justice to Hamura’s power. This is likely referring to Tenseigan Hamura, as that is the most recent Hamura Toneri is aware of, and the movie is all about the Tenseigan. So, the Light of Justice would scale to or above Hamura, who is Planetary. This is supported by the fact that the Light of Justice is stated capable of destroying the world. Furthermore, the novelization implies that had Naruto not stopped Toneri, the planet would have been entirely annihilated, which logically would refer to Toneri’s last ditch effort energy ball. This attack being at this level isn’t contradicted by the other “destroy the world but not completely” statements either as at this point in the film, Toneri like a spoiled child, doesn’t want anyone to have Earth if he can’t, so he prepares to throw a “**** all destroy everything” energy ball at the planet.

Now that it’s established that the Light of Justice is at least on the same tier of power as Hamura via power scaling and multiple statements, I’ll discuss what it is. Simply put, the Light of Justice is a fusion of Toneri with the Tenseigan and Naruto’s BSM chakra, otherwise known as TCM Toneri plus BSM Naruto. Anyone who has watched the movie should know that TCM Toneri and BSM Naruto are pretty relative to each other, meaning combining their power would be the same as simply doubling one of their powers. So, at a bare minimum TCM Toneri is scaling to half of Hamura’s power. Finally, to clear up a misconception, Toneri claims the Light of Justice can destroy the world/is the power of Hamura prior to absorbing any Sun energy, meaning the Sun wasn’t going to have aided him in any way.

TCM Toneri = 39.1 ZT (Low 5-B+)

Toneri’s Tenseigan is shown and implied to be on the same level as Hamura’s current Tenseigan, which is Hamura’s original Tenseigan with loads of Byakugan added into it. Toneri’s Tenseigan is able to do everything Hamura’s does and both the narrator and Toneri imply that Toneri’s complete Tenseigan is at the same level as Hamura’s current Tenseigan. This is significant because it implies that TCM Toneri should be relative to TCM Hamura via power scaling, as seen in the bolded portion of the second scale. Toneri’s base form, while unknown, is likely weaker than Hamura’s base form; however, Toneri’s Tenseigan is superior to the Tenseigan Hamura had while he was alive. It should be obvious that TCM Hamura would be stronger than the base Hamura which performed a Planetary feat, meaning Toneri having a scaling chain that implies he’s at TCM Hamura’s level would suggest Toneri should scale to at least base Hamura if not stronger.

As a last small thing to touch upon, Toneri with his Tenseigan can casually move the Moon this fast. I am putting this here as support for Toneri being as strong as I’m proposing, considering he has a casual Moon level+ feat already.

TCM Toneri = 78.2 ZT (5-B)

Spoiler: Naruto

Naruto​

BSM Naruto fights TCM Toneri pretty evenly, as I mentioned above, and as such would scale to him.

BSM Naruto = 39.1 ZT (Low 5-B+)
OR
BSM Naruto = 78.2 ZT (5-B)

Spoiler: Sasuke

Sasuke​

Logically Sasuke is probably stronger than BSM Naruto in The Last since in every other era he’s more so a rival to SPSM KCM Naruto. That being said, there’s literally no statements or feats to concretely label Sasuke’s power in The Last outside of “he’s probably still rivaling Naruto”. Hence why I am leaving him out of the scaling here. I guess he can simply scale to his teenage self since he's been out and about staying active with missions.

The Last Sasuke = 78.2 ZT (5-B)

Spoiler: Scaling Chain

Scaling Chain​

TCM Toneri ~ BSM Naruto < Toneri with Tenseigan and BSM chakra (2x) = Hamura = 5-B
OR
Hamura = 5-B < Hamura with Tenseigan > Hamura’s Tenseigan without Hamura < Hamura’s Tenseigan with additional Byakugan without Hamura = Toneri’s Tenseigan =< TCM Toneri ~ BSM Naruto

I’m proposing that BSM Naruto from The Last and TCM Toneri are bare minimum Small Planetary and Toneri would be flat out Planetary with Light of Justice. However, I’m curious on what people think of the secondary scaling chain, perhaps something akin to “Small Planetary, likely/possibly Planetary” would be a good compromise, or perhaps the implications are strong enough to say they are flat out Planetary. I’ll leave that up for discussion.

Boruto

Spoiler: Momoshiki and Kinshiki

Momoshiki and Kinshiki​

Imgur Links:

• Kaguya’s Scrolls/Sasuke’s Hypothesis
• Kinshiki vs Sasuke
• Momoshiki vs Naruto
• Kinshiki vs Sasuke but again
• Momoshiki above Kinshiki
• Fused Momoshiki fodderizes fodder

There is a lot to cover with these two, unfortunately, so as always I’ll start with the scaling chains.

5-B = Kaguya (maybe and no not the ETSO) < Momo and Kin < Fused Momo > Kaguya (definitely and no not the ETSO) = 5-B
AND
5-B = Rinnegan Sasuke ~ Kinshiki ~ Momoshiki < Fused Momo

I’ll talk about the second scaling chain first because it is far simpler in my opinion. The only assumption that goes into it is that Sasuke in his adulthood during the events of Boruto is at least as strong as his teenage self. To which I believe is a fine assumption, considering we see in Gaiden, Sasuke (and Naruto) lose their rustyness and regain their regular combat prowess by the end of that mini-series. Additionally, the writers like to show Sasuke is weakened by having the tomoe leave his Rinnegan, which never happens here. From there it is easy to see that Kinshiki scales to Sasuke, they clash relatively evenly with each other time and time again, the only time either gains the advantage over the other is when Sasuke catches Kinshiki by surprise after he gets tossed around by the Kage.

Regarding Momoshiki, it is implied that he is superior to Kinshiki in the same way Isshiki is superior to Kaguya. They place Momo’s marking above Kin’s, just like Isshiki’s is above Kaguya’s. Furthermore, Momoshiki can amplify the absorbed jutsu from Boruto to the point of knocking SPSM KCM Naruto unconscious, given Naruto decided to deliberately take all the damage. Base Momo was able to send base Naruto flying with a kick, despite Boruto pointing out Momo to Naruto, and it took Naruto a little while to get back on his feet. So, while I’m certainly not implying Momo should scale at all to SPSM KCM Naruto, it is certainly implied that Momoshiki is the superior of the Otsutsuki duo, the anime also portrays Momo as the bigger deal of the two. Then by absorbing Kinshiki, Momo gets a massive amp and transforms into Fused Momo, where he can one shot opponents who gave him and Kinshiki trouble previously. Fused Momoshiki should logically be at least the individual sums of both Momoshiki and Kinshiki.

On to the more complicated, potentially controversial take, using the Kaguya castle scrolls to scale Momoshiki and Kinshiki above Kaguya (and to reiterate, no not the ETSO). The argument goes as follows, Sasuke specifically denotes that despite Kaguya’s power she felt the need to create an army to combat Momoshiki and Kinshiki, which is confirmed true when Sasuke receives the translation of the scroll as he notes that their suspicions are correct. Sasuke also doesn’t question the scroll's validity and buys the decoded translation, and Sasuke has already come into contact and fought with Kinshiki and Momoshiki, further adding validity to the confirmation of his initial claim. At the bare minimum this would point to Fused Momoshiki scaling above Kaguya, as Kaguya may know about their ability to fuse together. However, after confirming his hypothesis and seeing base Momo and Kinshiki, Sasuke claims the scrolls are referring to the both of them. Regardless, this doesn’t affect the value I plan on scaling these two Otsutsuki to via Sasuke, and rather is just more preponderance of evidence that they are at those Planetary levels of power.

Narratively this is also very consistent, as a fellow member pointed out in the Naruto General thread brought up an interesting method of quantification. The Earth's internal thermal energy flows to the surface at a rate of 44.2 terajoules per second, which doesn't sound much cause of course it's just a rock planet after all not a star, however, the Shinju doesn't absorb it for a single second but the whole fuel, the whole budget that supplies the ecosystem on the planet, which I did some searches on and it turns out that The Geothermal Potential of the Earth is estimated to be around 12.6 x 10e24 MJ or roughly 1.26e31 joules or 3 ZT of TNT Small Planet Level and that's for a single planet let alone countless. To preface, I am not proposing applying some multiplier to this for scaling, rather using it as support for the time being. We know Momoshiki has been going around for thousands of years absorbing the life energy from many planets. So, it makes sense for him to have reached Planetary amounts of power in base, being that he’s devoured numerous God Tree fruits from other planets with civilizations.

Finally, as a combination of Momoshiki and Kinshiki, Fused Momoshiki should scale to at least the addition of Momoshiki and Kinshiki. Although, it is potentially far higher as Momoshiki goes from being around Sasuke/Kage level to no selling Sasuke’s sword swing after eating Kinshiki.

Kinshiki = 78.2 ZT (5-B)
Momoshiki = 78.2 ZT (5-B)
Fused Momoshiki = 156.4 ZT (5-B)

Spoiler: Shikamaru

Shikamaru​

Shikamaru can halt Kinshiki’s swing with his shadows, so logically Shikamaru’s shadows should scale. Stopping Kinshiki’s momentum with his shadows can be thought as equivalent to clashing evenly/parrying Kinshiki’s strike like Sasuke did, as both require you to contest the kinetic energy behind Kinshiki’s swing.

Shikamaru’s Shadows = 78.2 ZT (5-B)

Spoiler: Mizukage

Mizukage​

Mizukage can sort of keep up with Kinshiki, and while physically he got overpowered, he wasn’t getting one shot by Kinshiki. Furthermore, Mizukage’s jutsu objectively scales as he harmed Kinshiki and forced Kinshiki to dodge his jutsu. Whether we downscale Mizukage’s physicals from Kinshiki or not I leave up to discussion.

Mizukage’s Jutsu = 78.2 ZT (5-B)

Spoiler: Tsuchikage

Tsuchikage​

Tsuchikage blatantly slams Kinshiki with her punches and makes him gasp in pain, rather blatant scaling.

Tsuchikage = 78.2 ZT (5-B)

Spoiler: Raikage

Raikage​

I wish this were Ay, Boruto’s real dad, and true inheritor of the Jougan. Raikage is able to clash with Momoshiki and even forces Momoshiki on the ropes as he runs away from the Raikage. All of that implies the Raikage scales to Momoshiki.

Raikage = 78.2 ZT (5-B)

Spoiler: Gaara

Gaara​

Gaara is able to use his sand to block attacks from Fused Momoshiki, and as such his sand scales rather blatantly to Fused Momo. Gaara has 0 physical feats in the manga, I don’t know if there’s anything in the anime to quantify him in that regard.

Gaara’s Sand = 156.4 ZT (5-B)

Spoiler: Naruto and Sasuke

Naruto and Sasuke​

Naruto and Sasuke’s scaling is relatively simple with the following scaling chain.

5-B = Sasuke ~ Kinshiki =< Momoshiki ~< base Naruto > 50% base Naruto ~< Fused Momo ~ Sasuke ~< 50% SPSM KCM Naruto < Fused Momo’s Golem < Majestic Attire Susano’o

I’ll mention Sasuke first since he’s a bit simpler to discuss. Sasuke can either get his rating purely from scaling to or above his younger renditions (as alluded to in the Momo and Kin section), get his rating from fighting Kinshiki and obtaining Kinshiki’s rating separate from his fight with Sasuke (as mentioned in the Momo and Kin section), or in the anime Sasuke is able to contest Fused Momoshiki rather evenly (something he doesn’t do in the manga). Sasuke being able to contest Fused Momo while having fought Kinshiki isn't an inherent contradiction. Sasuke was searching for information at Kaguya's palace and was probing out Kinshiki and Momoshiki, so he may not have wanted to straight up kill any of them, plus he didn't know all their capabilities yet and opted to retreat instead. Also, Kinshki can contest Sasuke with Sasuke being only a couple of times stronger without that being inconsistent either. However, whether we should full on scale Sasuke to Fused Momo or only partially I'll leave up to discussion. That being said, I'm partial to the Fused Momo scaling as Sasuke shouldn't be below base Naruto (for reasons outlined further down below with his nerfed state).

Sasuke = 156.4 ZT (5-B)

Based solely off the manga Naruto in base should be scaling above the other Kage (excluding Gaara’s sand), as he was able to briefly hold his own against Fused Momo before being overpowered, additionally Naruto could take a kick from base Momo as well. Then in SPSM KCM, Naruto is able to turn the tides and overpower Fused Momoshiki. However, in the anime, which states Naruto had half his chakra drained, meaning he’d be at half power in his battle against Fused Momoshiki. All this means is Naruto’s full power and in base would be doubled what the manga suggests it is. This doesn’t inherently create any issues, as base Momo can just be objectively weaker than full power base Naruto but also in the same realm of power, and similarly with 50% base Naruto and Fused Momo. Either way base Naruto scales above the other Kage (not including Gaara’s sand) and his SPSM scales to/above Fused Momoshiki.

Naruto = 156.4 ZT (5-B), 312.8 ZT with SPSM KCM

Lastly, to touch upon the Majestic Attire Susano’o, I believe it is stated somewhere that the combination of Naruto and Sasuke is greater than the sum of their parts, so it can just scale to the sum of Naruto and Sasuke’s power at least.

Majestic Attire Susano’o = At least 469.2 ZT (5-B)

Spoiler: Sakura and Shin

Sakura and Shin​

Sakura’s scaling is based on the following scaling chain, thank Tracer for this thot being here.

Sakura > Shin ~ Sasuke with no tomoe Rinnegan > Sasuke with no Rinnegan ~< 5-B

In Gaiden, we see Sakura outperform a rusty Naruto and a Sasuke with his Rinnegan but no tomoe. This is impressive, because as you’ll find out further down, Sasuke without his Rinnegan is still a threat to characters who scale decently into Planetary. Despite Sasuke being diminished of chakra from dimension hopping, he should be stronger with the no tomoe Rinnegan than without a Rinnegan at all. As such I am proposing Sakura and Shin scale to around base Adult Naruto levels of power, as Naruto (despite being rusty) said he'd need to go all out against Shin, and Sasuke with a no tomoe Rinnegan should scale above Sasuke with no Rinnegan.

Sakura = 156.4 ZT (5-B)
Shin = 156.4 ZT (5-B)

Spoiler: Scaling Chain

Scaling Chain​

Mizukage’s physicals ~< Kinshiki = 5-B ~ Sasuke ~ Mizukage’s Jutsu ~ Tsuchikage ~ Shikamaru =< Momoshiki ~ Raikage ~< base Naruto > 50% base Naruto ~< Fused Momoshiki ~ Sasuke possibly ~ Gaara’s Sand ~< 50% SPSM KCM Naruto < Fused Momo’s Golem < Majestic Attire Susano’o
Featuring
Sakura > Shin ~ Sasuke with no tomoe Rinnegan > Sasuke with no Rinnegan ~< 5-B

I’m proposing that everyone here has some sort of Planetary scaling, the discussion is more so centered on choosing what specific values given downscaling, quantified nerfs, etc. Now onwards to Kara, the “Otsutsuki level” cyborgs, and Isshiki (oh and Boruto and Kawaki I guess).

Spoiler: Delta

Delta​

Delta is fortunate to have an extremely fleshed out battle with Naruto. Naruto himself admits he’s going all out and the spectators even comment that he becomes enraged, and despite all of that Delta is able to consistently contest Naruto in taijutsu. Delta’s destructive eye beams are even implied to be able to cause extensive damage to Naruto, and it took a super massive Rasengan to eventually put her down. Naruto even dropped out of his SPSM KCM state at the end of the battle due to fatigue. It’s rather obvious Delta scales to Naruto’s full power and potentially even higher with her special eye lasers.

Delta = 312.8 ZT (5-B), higher with Destructive Beams

Spoiler: Kashin Koji

Kashin Koji​

Koji’s scaling is much more narrative based than feat based.

5-B = Delta =< Base Koji ~ 10% Otsutsuki form Jigen < 100% Otsutsuki form Jigen <<< Isshiki > Sage Mode Koji

As mentioned in the imgur, he was created for the purpose of killing Jigen, he’s confident he can defeat Delta in his base form, which is supported by Amado, and he even is able to briefly swap hands with Isshiki. Although, Isshiki soundly puts Koji into the dirt. Furthermore, we can deduce Koji is above Delta in base as he approaches her with a hand sign that is entirely different from what he does when he enters Sage Mode.

Koji = 312.8 ZT (5-B), higher with Sage Mode

Spoiler: Code

Code​

Code’s scaling is entirely statement based, which isn’t bad since his statements are clear cut. The scaling I’ll be arguing is shown in this chain.

5-B = Delta < Limiter Karma Code < Otsutsuki form Jigen <<< Karma Code

Code is stated twice to possess combat ability superior to Delta’s. Realistically this should apply to at least Limiter Code’s strongest form (Karma), as nothing indicates which version of Limiter Code is superior, so I’ll assume his strongest to be safe. Also, while Code isn’t one shot by Bronco, it does look like Bronco (a reprogrammed Delta) is slightly superior to base Code. Furthermore, this is applicable to his stats as, unlike Boro, both Delta and Code are AP fighters. Logically, if Code were to be a superior fighter to Delta it would have to be due to his stats, since his only method of attacking is with his claws. Then once he gets his limiters removed, it’s stated numerous times his power far surpasses anything Jigen can do. I propose that with his limiters removed he upscale to Large Planet due to greatly surpassing Jigen (Jigen’s values can be found below). Finally, I only bring up Karma Code for greatly surpassing Jigen because Amado implies that it’s because of Code’s Karma that he’s as strong as he is.

Code = 312.8 ZT (5-B) with Karma, at least 3.128 YT (5-A) with Karma and limiters removed

Spoiler: Jigen/Isshiki

Jigen/Isshiki​

Jigen/Isshiki’s scaling is relatively simple as laid out by his feats in the following scaling chain.

5-B = Base Naruto < Base Jigen < Karma Jigen >~ SPSM KCM Naruto
AND
5-B = Kashin Koji ~ 10% Otsutsuki form Jigen < 100% Otsutsuki form Jigen = 5-B+ or 5-A <<< Isshiki = 5-A possibly High 4-C

Edit: High 4-C dropped from discussion

Jigen consistently performs consistently well against anyone he scraps with. In base he’s able to overpower base Naruto, with his Karma he’s able to outperform both SPSM KCM Naruto and Sasuke, and with his Otsutsuki form he completely dominates Naruto and Sasuke’s strongest forms. Perhaps his best feat however is being able to contest Kashin Koji while in his Otsutsuki form at less than 10% of his full power. So, in base Jigen would scale above base Naruto, with Karma above SPSM KCM Naruto, and with his Otsutsuki form over 10x above Kashin Koji.

Jigen = 156.4 ZT (5-B), 312.8 ZT (5-B) with Karma, 3.128 YT with Otsutsuki form (5-A)

Isshiki is blatantly stated to be in a whole other dimension of power compared to Otsutsuki form Jigen. As such, Isshiki should either upscale to Large Planet or simply vaguely higher at bare minimum. This is heavily supported by his performance against Naruto and Sasuke, ragdolling the both of them the entire fight until Naruto uses Baryon Mode. However, Isshiki has another powerful statement that could potentially scale him far higher. It is stated that Isshiki is the strongest threat that the good guys have ever faced. This would logically scale Isshiki above Kaguya’s ETSO as we see Kakashi and the rest of Team 7 recognize the ETSO as a threat to the ninja world. However, I am not proposing this as objective as the word translated to threat can translate to enemy as well; that being said, I strongly believe Isshiki should scale with a possibly rating. Currently, no one besides Isshiki and Baryon Mode Naruto would scale as well, and as they scale in a vacuum it creates no inconsistencies. Lastly, I want to briefly touch upon why narratively it makes sense for Isshiki to be above anything Kaguya can do. Kaguya represents Samsara and the Six Paths, visually that’s portrayed all over her body with the patterns of 6 tomoe and her Rinnegan (Samsara Eye). Meanwhile, Isshiki represents a step beyond that with Dharma and the Noble Eightfold Path, visually that’s portrayed with the patterns of 8 tomoe and his eye which is an eight pointed star. Narratively speaking, Isshiki is meant to represent a caliber of character far beyond anything we’ve seen in the series prior, a step away from the Otsutsuki god his clan strives towards. Because of that, I believe a possibly rating is warranted at the very least.

Isshiki = At least 3.128 YT (5-A), possibly 8.14 Foe (High 4-C)

Edit: High 4-C dropped from discussion

Spoiler: Naruto and Sasuke with no bitches

Naruto and Sasuke​

Naruto and Sasuke are a bit of a weird case while nerfed, but at least Baryon Mode is easy. The scaling would probably go as follows.

5-B = Limiter Karma Code >~ Naruto without Kurama and Sasuke without Rinnegan
AND
5-B = Limiter Karma Code < 82% Momoshiki form Boruto >~ 80% Momoshiki form Boruto >~ Sasuke without Rinnegan

Despite being nerfed, Code is wary enough of Naruto and Sasuke to want his Limiters removed before fighting them. This implies a level of superiority for Code but not a gap large enough where Naruto and Sasuke aren’t at least somewhat relative. Additionally, Momoshiki form Boruto was still wary of Sasuke without his Rinnegan, and while the Borushiki that fought Code had more of Momoshiki downloaded, it wasn’t an astronomical amount more downloaded. Sasuke at the very least seems comparable to his pre-nerf and base Naruto, so he shouldn't be drastically weaker, maybe an at most rating would be sufficient.

Sasuke without Rinnegan = At most 156.4 ZT (5-B)

Naruto has less showings but might just be easier to scale, as his base form has plenty of feats prior. I think scaling Naruto without Kurama to his base form is perfectly fine. Then Baryon Mode Naruto obviously scales above Isshiki.

Naruto without Kurama = 156.4 ZT (5-B), higher with Sage Mode
AND
Baryon Mode Naruto = At least 3.128 YT (5-A), possibly 8.14 Foe (High 4-C)


Edit: High 4-C dropped from discussion

Spoiler: Boruto

Boruto​

Boruto has some pretty good scaling to Code with his Karma, outlined in the following scaling chain.

5-B = Limiter Karma Code ~ True Karma Boruto < Otsutsuki form Boruto

Boruto rather objectively keeps pace with Karma Code with his limiters using the true form of Karma that Code teaches Boruto about. Then when Momoshiki takes over, he slams Code and even Code and Eida admit that Otsutsuki form Boruto is above Code’s current caliber at the moment.

Boruto = 312.8 ZT (5-B) with True Karma, higher with Otsutsuki form

Spoiler: Kawaki

Kawaki​

Kawaki has rather simple scaling to Boruto and above Code, as shown by this chain.

5-B = Limiter Karma Code ~ True Karma Boruto < Otsutsuki form Boruto =< Otsutsuki form Kawaki

Kawaki will simply scale to above Limiter Karma Code in the same vein Boruto does with his Otsutsuki form.

Kawaki = At least 312.8 ZT (5-B) with Otsutsuki form

Spoiler: Eida

Eida​

Eida is one of the cyborgs hypothesized to possess power far greater than anything Jigen can muster. However, she has yet to actually fight anyone or display any combat feats. So, I’m proposing for the time being she’s simply given a “likely” rating scaling above Otsutsuki form Jigen, based on Shikamaru’s hypothesis.
Eida = Unknown, likely at least 3.128 YT (5-A)

Spoiler: Daemon the [IMG alt="🐐

https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/6.5/png/unicode/64/1f410.png[/IMG] "]

Daemon​

Daemon slams Limiter Released Karma Code with negative difficulty, Code without his limiters scaling far above Jigen in terms of power. So, Daemon very clearly scales above Otsutsuki form Jigen as well.

Daemon = At least 3.128 YT (5-A)

Spoiler: Scaling Chain

Scaling Chain​

5-B = SPSM KCM Naruto ~ Delta =< Limiter Karma Code ~ True Karma Boruto < Otsutsuki form Boruto =< Otsutsuki form Kawaki
AND
5-A = Otsutsuki form Jigen <<< Limiter Released Karma Code = 5-A ~ likely Eida < Daemon
AND
Base Naruto < base Jigen < Karma Jigen >~ 5-B = SPSM KCM Naruto ~ Delta =< Kashin Koji ~ 10% Otsutsuki form Jigen < Otsutsuki form Jigen = 5-A <<< Isshiki = 5-A possibly High 4-C < Baryon Mode Naruto
AND
5-B = Otsutsuki form Boruto >~ No Rinnegan Sasuke ~< Limiter Karma Code = 5-B

For the most part, I’d say nothing too wild is being proposed, merely a bunch of knockoff Androids scaling to Naruto and Sasuke, featuring some potentially revolutionary Isshiki takes. I guess we wait until Code absorbs the Juubi and becomes discount Perfect Cell.

Bonus Round

Spoiler: Hokage Kakashi

Kakashi
Allegedly Kakashi is comparable to Kashin Koji in the anime. If that's true and someone wants to slide with scans confirming or denying that, that'd be cool. Kakashi never shows up in the main story, so he doesn't create any contradictions and would be fine to scale to Koji given he's comparable. Thanks to Tracer he found the clip showing Kakashi does scale:

Hokage Kakashi = 312.8 ZT (5-B)

Spoiler: Urashiki

Urashiki
Allegedly Urashiki as feats comparable to Gaara's sand and Sasuke prior to any nerfs. This would scale him to their level, and as far as anti-feats go, to my knowledge all of them occur while Urashiki is poisoned (aka they aren't contradictions). If someone has scans and wants to slide that'd be cool.

Urashiki = 156.4 ZT (5-B), higher after being a weird ****** bird or sumn

Agree: Shadow, Slayer, Tracer, LordGriffon (except for Kage + Shikamaru), KLOL (except Kage + Shin + Sakura + Urashiki + ETSO), DueDate
Disagree: Damage (mainly Kage + Shikamaru + Shin + Sakura)
Neutral:

I agree

 

[Arkenis]

 

[Yaozin]

Hagoromo may be the most underrated character in the series. I think I can even scale it above etsb(juubi jinchuuriki) but now everyone is slapping it
But I agree with most of the upgrades

 

[Tomboy11]

Also, to quote myself from another thread of mine, here's a short list of piercing attacks being irrelevant in Naruto. As you'll all find, this is even more prominent when chakra cloaks/constructs are involved, so Naruto being off-guard against Shin is irrelevant as he had his chakra cloak active at the time.

So, hopefully this argument just goes away. Comparable character harming each other with bladed weaponry isn't an anti-feat for the characters or a feat for the weapons. It only means the characters are comparable, and can harm each other with weapons because they're comparable.

If I remember right 4 tails Naruto was off guard and orochimaru couldn't still damage him with his blade
So yeah
I agree with this + it was shin chakra moving the blade
So it mostly likely just means he had some level of relativity like delta

 

[Tdjwo]

If I remember right 4 tails Naruto was off guard and orochimaru couldn't still damage him with his blade
So yeah
I agree with this + it was shin chakra moving the blade
So it mostly likely just means he had some level of relativity like delta

I mean, even if we accept Shin scales to Naruto/Sasuke with his MS, then Sakura wouldn't scale to any of them since she never damaged anything controlled by the MS. Shin would only have a 5B upgrade with MS. But it wouldn't apply to Sakura since she never damaged anything controlled by the MS.

 

[Damage3245]

No posts spamming the thread that are just emoticons or reaction images.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Nah I'm still against those reasons
why would Shin's blades be millions of times stronger than him, considering his moving those blades with his own chakra and later on even Physically throws those blades that's also ignoring sakura being mostly okay after being pierced by the same blades that disperses pieces of Naruto's cloak, or when sakura straight up trades blows with Shin while he had his bladed hand, or how Sakura can literally breaks those blades and knock shin out with a single punch while later on Shin was still conscious enough after having his bones broken by sasuke's susanoo, or how shin is capable of grabbing Sasuke's sword mid swing or how shin can survive sasuke's fireball jutsu.

There isnt enough evidence for me to convincingly believe that Shin is order of magnitudes weaker than the blades he throws around casually.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Nah I'm still against those reasons
why would Shin's blades be millions of times stronger than him, considering his moving those blades with his own chakra and later on even Physically throws those blades that's also ignoring sakura being mostly okay after being pierced by the same blades that disperses pieces of Naruto's cloak, or when sakura straight up trades blows with Shin while he had his bladed hand, or how Sakura can literally breaks those blades and knock shin out with a single punch while later on Shin was still conscious enough after having his bones broken by sasuke's susanoo, or how shin is capable of grabbing Sasuke's sword mid swing or how shin can survive sasuke's fireball jutsu.

There isnt enough evidence for me to convincingly believe that Shin is order of magnitudes weaker than the blades he throws around casually.

Does Sakura trade blows with Shin’s blades? Can you snag that scan? Cuz that would make things super simple.

 

[Reio35]

Shin scaling to naruto and sasuke with his MS doesn't make any sense. Boruto as a series is just inconsistent for the sake of plot. We might as well scale base boruto to fused momoshiki at this point. He stabbed momos eye,hurt him with vanishing resangan. Why are yall cherry picking who scales and who doesn't?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Please don't tell me our site guests are actually making new accounts to agree to the OP??

Following.

 

[Damage3245]

Shin scaling to naruto and sasuke with his MS doesn't make any sense. Boruto as a series is just inconsistent for the sake of plot. We might as well scale base boruto to fused momoshiki at this point. He stabbed momos eye,hurt him with vanishing resangan. Why are yall cherry picking who scales and who doesn't?

Picking who scales to what and who doesn't is our job.

As you just pointed out, we obviously can't allow every single feat at face-value otherwise we'd end up with Boruto = Momoshiki.

Personally I can accept Shin's MS ability scaling to Naruto and Sasuke even if I hate it.

I'm just opposed to him and Sakura physically scaling to Naruto and Sasuke.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Shin scaling to naruto and sasuke with his MS doesn't make any sense. Boruto as a series is just inconsistent for the sake of plot. We might as well scale base boruto to fused momoshiki at this point. He stabbed momos eye,hurt him with vanishing resangan. Why are yall cherry picking who scales and who doesn't?

Please explain how hurting a Momoshiki who was on death’s door with barely any chakra to the point where he could only make a single attack thanks to the ninja tech guy shooting one at him to absorb means Boruto harmed Momo at full power?

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Hagoromo may be the most underrated character in the series. I think I can even scale it above etsb(juubi jinchuuriki) but now everyone is slapping it
But I agree with most of the upgrades

Is this guy an alt account

This is his first message on the forum lol

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Wait, wouldn't all the 5-B characters like Hagoromo and Hamura scale to Low 5-B because the 5-B feat Hamura and Hagoromo performed was a combined effort, so naturally that would be halved to 39 zettatons, or am I missing something? That's the logic that's been used for the previous Naruto scaling.

I also disagree with upgrading all of the Kage or any other character who doesn't have Six Paths power or isn't an Otsutsuki to 5-B. It doesn't really make any sense that they could increase their stats to such a high level during peace time

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

or am I missing something?

The calc already halves the value, the feat was 156.4 ZT, half to Hag is 78.2 ZT.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I also disagree with upgrading all of the Kage or any other character who doesn't have Six Paths power or isn't an Otsutsuki to 5-B. It doesn't really make any sense that they could increase their stats to such a high level during peace time

Unfortunately, “it doesn’t make any sense to me” is A) an argument from incredulity and B) no means to justly ignore blatant feats.

 

[Reio35]

Please explain how hurting a Momoshiki who was on death’s door with barely any chakra to the point where he could only make a single attack thanks to the ninja tech guy shooting one at him to absorb means Boruto harmed Momo at full power?

He wasn't on deaths door at. He even said he could spam his giant resangan as many times he wants.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

He wasn't on deaths door at. He even said he could spam his giant resangan as many times he wants

He just got one shot by Naruto and Sasuke, he was lying on the ground unable to do anything prior to having the tech guy shoot a tiny bit of chakra at him.

 

[Tdjwo]

Nah I'm still against those reasons
why would Shin's blades be millions of times stronger than him, considering his moving those blades with his own chakra and later on even Physically throws those blades that's also ignoring sakura being mostly okay after being pierced by the same blades that disperses pieces of Naruto's cloak, or when sakura straight up trades blows with Shin while he had his bladed hand, or how Sakura can literally breaks those blades and knock shin out with a single punch while later on Shin was still conscious enough after having his bones broken by sasuke's susanoo, or how shin is capable of grabbing Sasuke's sword mid swing or how shin can survive sasuke's fireball jutsu.

There isnt enough evidence for me to convincingly believe that Shin is order of magnitudes weaker than the blades he throws around casually.

You Shin supporters already concluded that It's not the blades that makes Shin 5B. It's his MS. We argued about this 2 days ago when you claimed Shin's MS had enough force to pierce through Naruto's cloak. It was never about the blades. Sakura never fought Shin's MS-controlled blades. She couldn't even remove the blades Shin used to stab her arm because it was controlled by Shin.
In order to scale Sakura to Shin, we have to scale her AP to a MS-controlled blade which never happened.
Also, tanking a blade doesn't mean your AP scales to the blade. Durability doesn't equal AP.

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

The calc already halves the value, the feat was 156.4 ZT, half to Hag is 78.2 ZT.

Oh, I see. I misread the statements then.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

He just got one shot by Naruto and Sasuke, he was lying on the ground unable to do anything prior to having the tech guy shoot a tiny bit of chakra at him.

Didn't Fused Momoshiki proceed to consume multiple pills after being juiced by the Ninja Tech Ninjutsu and restraining Naruto and Co?

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Shin's MS had enough force to piercer through Naruto's cloak. It was never about the blades.

That force comes from Shin's telekinesis

Sakura never fought Shin's MS-controlled blades.

yes she did, the blades she clashed with were being held together by the same power that Shin used on naruto.

She couldn't even remove the blades Shin used to stab her arm because it was controlled by Shin.

The blades have a passive ability to restrict movement, it even effected someone like Sasuke.

Also, tanking a blade doesn't mean your AP scales to the blade. Durability doesn't equal AP.

sure but sakura can injure people as strong as herself.

also this on the assumption that we seperate Shin's MS ability from the rest of his tier which i already stated i disagree with.

 

[Damage3245]

If anybody posts nothing but emoticons on here, I'll make a suggestion that they be banned from the thread for spamming it.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Shin scaling to naruto and sasuke with his MS doesn't make any sense. Boruto as a series is just inconsistent for the sake of plot. We might as well scale base boruto to fused momoshiki at this point. He stabbed momos eye,hurt him with vanishing resangan. Why are yall cherry picking who scales and who doesn't?

Because Boruto has ridiculously more anti feats?, why are you guys blatantly acting disingenuous.

If Kid Boruto only had feats of fighting tier 5 characters then yes Kid Boruto would also scale.

If Shin and Adult Sakura had consistent amount of anti feats then they obviously wouldn't scale.

The reason why this scaling is being proposed is that these characters lack any anti feats or greater context for them to not scale. the only reason why people dont want them to scale is because they personally refuse to believe that these characters are this strong.

 

[Reio35]

He just got one shot by Naruto and Sasuke, he was lying on the ground unable to do anything prior to having the tech guy shoot a tiny bit of chakra at him.

The tech guy just gave him extra abilities. Momo had enough chakra to still spam these

And to kick away sasuke

 

[Tdjwo]

That force comes from Shin's telekinesis

Obviously. The telekinesis is powered by Shin's MS.

yes she did, the blades she clashed with were being held together by the same power that Shin used on naruto.

She never clashed with any blade powered byShin's MS. The only times she clashed with the blades were either Shin coats his arm with it, or Shin directly throws the blades at her with his arm and she dodges it.

The blades have a passive ability to restrict movement, it even effected someone like Sasuke.

That still doesn't support Sakura scaling to a MS-controlled blade in AP.

sure but sakura can injure people as strong as herself.

Doesn't matter here. Shin doesn't scale to his MS-controlled blade physically anyways.

also this on the assumption that we seperate Shin's MS ability from the rest of his tier which i already stated i disagree with.

But that is the case tho. Shin doesn't scale physically to his MS-controlled blade.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Obviously. The telekinesis is powered by Shin's MS.

thats what i said.

She never clashed with any blade powered byShin's MS. The only times she clashed with the blades were either Shin coats his arm with it, or Shin directly throws the blades at her with his arm and she dodges it.

Shin never coated his hand, his hand is entirely made out of blades, being held together by his telekinesis

That still doesn't support Sakura scaling to a MS-controlled blade in AP.

Shin can Physcally injure the Sakura who can tank his blades

Doesn't matter here. Shin doesn't scale to his MS-controlled blade physically anyways.

based on what?

But that is the case tho. Shin doesn't scale physically to his MS-controlled blade.

No that isnt the case?, thats something a few members here proposed as an alternative to the current scaling? Dojutsu and Chakra are inherently connected, we dont do this for any other dojutsu user, why are we only doing this for shin lol

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Didn't Fused Momoshiki proceed to consume multiple pills after being juiced by the Ninja Tech Ninjutsu and restraining Naruto and Co?

he takes the pills after the Vanishing Rasengan.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

The tech guy just gave him extra abilities. Momo had enough chakra to still spam these

And to kick away sasuke

Why are you lying all these happen long after the vanishing rasengan and when Momo took his chakra pills.

 

[Reio35]

Because Boruto has ridiculously more anti feats?, why are you guys blatantly acting disingenuous.

If Kid Boruto only had feats of fighting tier 5 characters then yes Kid Boruto would also scale.

If Shin and Adult Sakura had consistent amount of anti feats then they obviously wouldn't scale.

The reason why this scaling is being proposed is that these characters lack any anti feats or greater context for them to not scale. the only reason why people dont want them to scale is because they personally refuse to believe that these characters are this strong.

I don't believe he scales because his eye is like 2 tiers of evolution below Sasuke's. Typical to scale to plp like naruto sasuke. You either have to be an cyborg or have otsutsuk. Power. Which shin has no access to.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

he takes the pills after the Vanishing Rasengan.

I'm referring to the Eye stabbing thing that Arc and Reio were talking about

And doesn't Vanishing Rasengan have some sort of Dura Neg capability (Borushiki vs Rinnegone Sasuke)

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Page 11 Chapter 9

Page 29 chapter 9

Page 25 chapter 9

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

And doesn't Vanishing Rasengan have some sort of Dura Neg capability (Borushiki vs Rinnegone Sasuke)

It’s more like it can catch people off guard cuz they don’t see it coming

 

[Tdjwo]

Shin never coated his hand, his hand is entirely made out of blades, being held together by his telekinesis

That's what I meant. Shin's hand is made out of the blades right? But they aren't thrown at Sakura at that time. His blade is not 5B. His MS having enough power to telekinetically bypass Naruto's durability makes Shin 5B. Sakura never clashed with Shin's MS-controlled blade. I keep repeating this which you haven't countered.

Shin can Physcally injure the Sakura who can tank his blades

This comparison makes no sense. It's like saying I have the same AP with an Elephant because I can squash an ant just like an Elephant can also do.

based on what?

Based on the fact that Shin never injured Sasuke or Naruto without using his MS-controlled blade. Its like Kaguya not scaling to her ETSO because it had nothing to do with her physically.

No that isnt the case?, thats something a few members here proposed as an alternative to the current scaling? Dojutsu and Chakra are inherently connected, we dont do this for any other dojutsu user, why are we only doing this for shin lol

Yes we do. Mangekyo Sharingan is usually scaled separately from the Uchiha's tierings.

 

[Reio35]

Why are you lying all these happen long after the vanishing rasengan and when Momo took his chakra pills.

He still stabbed his eye after he took pills.