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What's Grandia length?
Upscaled Jormungandr AP
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8,773,627.8mWhat's Grandia length?
Upscaled Jormungandr AP
vsbattles.fandom.com
Found it8,773,627.8m
With that calculation its weight would be 4.64e20kg.
With the GPE method it would give 9.99e26 Joules or 238.78 Terajoules (High 6-B). With the KE method you get 394,813.251m/s and 3.62e31 Joules or 8.65 Zettatons (Low 5-B). With the Force you get 1.83e26 Newtons or 1.87e25Kg (Class Z).
「It’s really a war of gods huh. The scale is in different level.」
「Indeed……to be honest, I still cannot fully comprehend it.」
Perhaps because of the degradation from the long years, or perhaps because of other cause, in any case, the strength of the current pseudo spirits was only around 30% of their golden age. They also could only use a small part of their authority. Perhaps that was why they needed to steal the memories of Yue and others to supplement it, but either way, it saved their lives, the two thought while getting cold sweat.
Remnant of Myth ch 4
I did the calc, I gave you that number for a reason, you don't need to show me again my calc. The only reference for Grandia size that we have is the fact that they defended the bottom half of the continent with their body, so you will not get any higher size than that, be happy with what you got.Found it
Grandia could be longer than the continent, right ?Reisen Gorge Creation And Grandia Weight
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The golems were able to keep up with the original spirits, and here is their current level of power(30%) when fighting Hajime
Look at the crt that added it to see the justification for that.Can you justify concept magic being type 1?
and hereIs said that ancient magic interfere and manipulate fundamental abstract concepts (which if I'm not wrong is a requisite in the description of concept manip type 2), this become more evident with cases like spatial magic that do to control the boundaries can create dimensions or manipulate fantasy and reality (something show for example in one bonus stories with a book artifact that absorbed people and made them live the tale of the book), spirit magic that manipulate every incorporeal element of sentient beings (heat, electricity, mind, memories, dreams, soul, stamina, etc), evolution magic that manipulate the information of living things, objects and even data (as show in the after stories) since it classify as information (also, now that info manip have types the evolution magic users should get both types) the other types also have cases like that but this ancient magic are the more easy to show and understand.
Though there also exist concept magic which is treated as something more fundamental and complex, after talking with Elizhaa seem posible that the difference is more focused in the limits of their scope, while each ancient magic only control their specific concept (which are above) concept magic don't have limits in what it can do because of be the combination of all the ancient magics. Similarly, considering the recent cosmology revelations in the after stories about the Astral World/Akashic Records, is quite possible that the author plan to make a connection between that and the concept magic.
Here
ExpectrooArifureta Revisions Vols 7-11 + Extras
In the end do to cover so many vols this ended really long, so please take all the time you need to read everything, there is no rush. Hajime Senses: Eventually, dawn arrived. The sun’s rays crested the horizon, causing everyone to cast long shadows. Warm light suffused the air, and right when...vsbattles.com
and here
I know it's superior, but there is nothing about it being independent. For outsiders that make it sound like a more layered version of ancient magic.Arifureta Zero Revisions vol 6, Micellaneous, Stats and Hax Scaling Blog
Here go the additions of vol 6, along with some miscellaneous things outside of vol 6 and the blog with the stats values of all the characters together with the hax scaling/layers of ancient magic in general. Zero Volume 6 New Keys Fairly simple, we already knew that the Liberators would get a...vsbattles.com
I've been gathering some details about the cosmology and found some interesting stuff about energy, soul, ancient magic and the realms that could explain it better.
Now, though concept magic can only be attained after master all seven ancient magic, it doesn’t fall under any category of ancient magic and can't be analyzed, overcome or affected in any way with ancient magic, even by people able to use the essence of each ancient magic and who have mastered it like the Liberators, and can only be affected by other concept magic. There were no rules, no restrictions to what could be done with it. It truly was the ultimate type of magic. (All of this information come from knowledgeable and reliable sources, the last part is even info that come directly from the age of the gods)
I originally consulted with Elizhaa if given this information concept magic could be granted a possible concept manip type 1 and she said yes, so in principle this should be fine. Actually after reread the volume to make this crt I found a lot more things showing the absolute superiority of concept magic over ancient magic, so this should futher solidify the point, maybe it can even make it a solid thing instead of a possibly, though that depend on the knowledgeable staff.
I know, any advice ?This will sound harsh but unfortunately, you just suck at debating, I have seen how you debate the verse in threads and that's genuinely the conclusion I reach each time.
(Read above)So we know that ancient magic not only manipulates abstract concepts but that they are the seven most fundamental things of the universe (or universes I suppose since they are also present in the other worlds), and we knew that despite that concept magic was somehow superior to ancient magic but we didn't know exactly to what extent that was.
I agree with you but here are the problemsNow, vol 6 of Zero we were shown to what extent that superiority went and the reason why, we were shown that no matter what ancient magic can't affect it in any form (be it trying to alter it in any way or even just try to understand it), it is completely beyond the scope of ancient magic and only other concept magic can do something to it, and then we were also told how there it literally had no rules or restrictions that could limit it, which supports once again how it is beyond even the most fundamental aspects of the universe
I agree with this, but I think what's make the difference between is that there is a will behind concept magic. Which make sense that they're using a willpower to resist another will hax.So what we have is something independent of reality, that unilaterally controls the fundamental blocks of the universe without any limit or possibility of being affected back in any feasible way by anything besides itself (other concept magic basically). In case I was wrong or getting ahead of myself I went to consult one of the staff members listed as knowledgeable regarding concept manip, who also happened to be someone who knew about the verse terminology, which means that they were already familiar with what ancient magic is, and that person agreed with the logic of it being independent of reality. Now, if other users disagree with this logic and staff deem it invalid, then it's perfectly fine to downgrade it to the previous state of just being vaguely above on the Type 2 scale.
The only thing I can think of is seeing people debate, analyze how they formulate their arguments and talk, and trying to imitate that in debates until you improve. I suppose also developing your logic helps.I know, any advice ?
I think you should try to ask yourself if you want to upgrade ancient magic to type 1 because there exists genuine proof and logic that back up that or if you want to upgrade it just because it's better/cooler/stronger and having it would make them defeat more characters from other verses. If you desire to do it because of the former then try to consult knowledgeable people in the matter (concepts type 1, so don't ask me), think really hard about how you formulate your arguments, and if you can convince them then you can try making a crt to gets your ideas evaluated to see if they can pass or not.My interpretation is that when they talk about truth of the world they don't refere to the concepts that govern the realm but to the cosmology(the branch). This s backed up by braches being a conceptual structures and that the ones who discover ancient magic are same civilisations discovering other universes(Asgard and Hell). So the truth of the world(ancient magic) is the branch(type 1 obviously) and that's why the compass is limited to it.
1) And? The sum of all parts is not the same as each individual one. The point is that we know for a fact how completely different the final product (ancient magic) is from the materials (ancient magic) in a very explicit way that doesn't give room to debate how qualitatively superior it is. The only extra material that is different from the rest in that mix is the Will aspect, which has indeed shown the potential to interact in a meaningful way with concept magic (it can resist it and create it), so there exists the possibility of an argument about how Will should scale to the to the type (regardless of it is 3, 2 or 1) of concept magic and that would be a valid one, though currently I sincerely have no desire of making a revision trying to implement that logic in a more formalized way, and honestly don't think either that you are capable enough to handle something like that, maybe in the future I would get the Will to do that but at the moment I don't want.I agree with you but here are the problems
1)It's just ancient magic(knowledge)+willpower and it could be resisted through willpower
2)It could be replicated through the combination of soul and info magic and Lyutillis.
3) It's limited to the nine realm
Ok, just know that english isn't my first language.The only thing I can think of is seeing people debate, analyze how they formulate their arguments and talk, and trying to imitate that in debates until you improve. I suppose also developing your logic helps.
I'll need help with that part.I think you should try to ask yourself if you want to upgrade ancient magic to type 1 because there exists genuine proof and logic that back up that or if you want to upgrade it just because it's better/cooler/stronger and having it would make them defeat more characters from other verses. If you desire to do it because of the former then try to consult knowledgeable people in the matter (concepts type 1, so don't ask me), think really hard about how you formulate your arguments, and if you can convince them then you can try making a crt to gets your ideas evaluated to see if they can pass or not.
I'll wait for it.1) And? The sum of all parts is not the same as each individual one. The point is that we know for a fact how completely different the final product (ancient magic) is from the materials (ancient magic) in a very explicit way that doesn't give room to debate how qualitatively superior it is. The only extra material that is different from the rest in that mix is the Will aspect, which has indeed shown the potential to interact in a meaningful way with concept magic (it can resist it and create it), so there exists the possibility of an argument about how Will should scale to the to the type (regardless of it is 3, 2 or 1) of concept magic and that would be a valid one, though currently I sincerely have no desire of making a revision trying to implement that logic in a more formalized way, and honestly don't think either that you are capable enough to handle something like that, maybe in the future I would get the Will to do that but at the moment I don't want.
Or the authorities that come from the great trees.2) I don't know what you are talking about but regardless, and? You can make with worse materials something with similar effects, that doesn't necessarily mean that the object with similar effects has the same value or potency/effectiveness or properties as the thing it imitated, so I don't see how this would be a disqualifier, more so when in the context of this series we are told and shown that regardless of anything concept magic will always be above (hence its title as the ultimate magic and how it's needed another concept magic to clash with it).
No downgrade, because it's comes from the branch and not the realms.3) Cool, can't talk because I haven't reached those parts but if after the previous crt new evidence has come out that contradicts the notion of it being unbound/independent of reality, and this evidence is either significant or abundant enough, then it can be simply downgraded, I don't have a problem with that.
Mine neither, and? I in fact have no formal english education, I just learned it from watching the persona games (and later on from reading novels), there a reason as to why I always make grammatical mistakes, even more back then when I was doing the Arifureta revisions. The important thing is the logic itself of the arguments and the way it's delivered, so even with details like bad grammar you still can debate and convince others of your points.Ok, just know that english isn't my first language.
Another thing is that there is no evidence that shows ancient magic being dependent on the realms.
No downgrade, because it's comes from the branch and not the realms.
I started with watching movies, series, music and games then start reading books.Mine neither, and? I in fact have no formal english education, I just learned it from watching the persona games (and later on from reading novels)
But it's the same across all the realms, which suggest that the branch is the source of this knowledge and the branch is what govern all the realm within. Further evidence is that some branches were stated to have similare concepts(structure) bjt not the same while others have different underlying principles(ancient magic).If ancient magics are the fundamental parts of the universe then logically speaking they are dependant of the universe, as otherwise it would be like considering the foundations of a building not a part of the building they support.
What I'm trying to say is that ancient magic is the power of the branch itself while concept magic is forcing the branch to someone will, which explain how it's superior.That was the existence of “possible world”.
According to Foltina, even their nine universes were located on nothing more than a single branch from a major branch that extended from the world tree. Furthermore their universes were nothing more than the leaves that grew at the further end of a smaller branch. There were other branches and leaves beside their branch. Nearby branch would have similar worlds with theirs, while the far away branch could possibly could have worlds with completely different culture and history engraved on them.
Not only that, it might even be possible that there were different major branches that grew from the world tree, where mankind itself didn’t exist there in the first place, where the worlds were completely different, in law of physics, concept, or the world’s underlying principle. Ch 470
The previous conversation didn't take in mind the possibility of ancient magic being independent from the realms.Glad y'all worked all that out. I've already voiced my issues with give anything in the series Type 1 CM, so I won't rehash.
Planet energy: fundamental particles created from the trees converting Element into different forms of energy.
Soul: the planet energy taking a different form or you can call it a construct of it.
So the soul is made from mana, willpower...soul is just sentient energy or energy that gain self/individuality. Soul compose of memory, knowledge, consciousness, power, race, will...
That's not all, we found out that the soul produce conception and convert the planet energy into whatever energy the person is using like Kouki converting the machine world energy into magic power after they revitalized the plant. So the soul could convert different energies into something else. Doesn't seem unikely when you realise that even elements like water, mist, and light have supernatural property that destroy demons soul and time/dimensional travel like when the spirit whale used mist to get into his city that exist outside space-m-time and could be used to enter all the realls across all times.
Element: a smaller particle that make up all those energy, it the energy that exist in all the realm and converted by the trees. The only thing that fit's the discription is conception especially when we found out that the heaven tree convert conception into element of thought and it's different for each realm.
Another is that it was stated somewhere that this energy(Element) comes from the origin world(TWA). Conception=CM1
Ancient magic: knowledge(not power) that people got after reaching the truth of the world(possibly the branch). It seems to that source of the power behind it is the user soul and magic power meaning the soul is what manipulate reality on a conceptual level further proven by how everyone and their grandma resist ancient magic(jk) even without having any special energy. Ancient magic is powered by mana and from Ehit technique that convert piety into magic power there is possibility that mana give resistance to ancient magic and even concept magic and that what gave him high resistance, plus conception evolving his soul. So AM is just understanding reality on. Of course the user affinity matter. (AM=CM1)
Concept magic: just ancient magic but empowered by will(soul). We know that willpower is crazy in the verse it could be used to resist hax and force concepts on reality. Even without a strong will the person could just use info magic to upgrade it. So it's just manipulating reality using the soul(will). Concept magic=Will+CM1
Great Trees Authority: Hax that come from the great tree who was able to interfer with the crystal key destination, and it was stated to be equal to concept magic. But limited to a single realm. Authority=CM1
Why it's limited? (read below)
Nine Realms: Nine universes, I got some evidence that could prove that they were connected conceptually, but something led to their separation and each universe becoming an independent system on its own trapped by something like a boundary. The great trees in each realm is connected to the world on a conceptual level and it's could be the equivalent of the world symbol. And Hajime compass being limited to the nine realms which suggest the outside worlds don't have the same principles(concept type 1). Each branch=concept type 1
The World Tree(Tree->limb->branch->twig): It was stated that each limb has different underlying principle that govern the world which mean different concepts(type 1) that govern reality within.
I think explanation of the various terms and concepts are valid enough.The previous conversation didn't take in mind the possibility of ancient magic being independent from the realms.
Do you agree/disagree with this and why?
If it help, God of War has a similar function for the soul. We can use their format to explain it.I think explanation of the various terms and concepts are valid enough.
I know we've talked about it alreadyIf it help, God of War has a similar function for the soul. We can use their format to explain it.
Good god that was a lot of yap but I read itGot this accepted
I know it's a terrible format, but still better than nothing.Arifureta: Soul information
Soul: Let's start with this Spirit Magic: The ability to interfere with souls. The more precise definition of spirit magic is magic that manipulates the incorporeal elements of sentient beings. In more concrete terms, it could be used to manipulate the heat, electricity, and other energy...vsbattles.com
Might as well complete all the soul upgrades before collecting the scans and creating the page.Take a look at this:
It was accepted here:Soul Physiology (Ohkubo Verse)
Within the world of Soul Eater there are many strange and special groups such as Meisters, Witches, and various folklore entities like Jack the Riper, Frey D. Sadoko, Masamune Nakatsukasa and others. Within Soul Eater, these beings possess the ability to manipulate their soul and soul...vsbattles.fandom.com
Can someone use scans from the new CRT to organize a similar page ?Soul Eater Verse CRT
With Halloween close by, I thought it'd be cool releasing it now. Intro I had planned to do a big revision for Ohkubo's mangas some time ago but I didn't have the patience for it, plus the support had been pretty lackluster. So I hope this can bring some life to it on the wiki again. This'll...vsbattles.com
Maybe we should start with elemental magic ?Might as well complete all the soul upgrades before collecting the scans and creating the page.
Maybe.Maybe we should start with elemental magic ?
Yeah I'll wait until.Some stuff will get added up due to the nature of souk and mana.
Keep in mind that he knew the distance between them.
Hajime was letting out a deep sigh inside that space.
「……Don’t perceive what we called “other world” at the level of a “single planet”. Perceive it wider as a “single universe”, huh. Well, certainly that tracks. Even the desert world has outer space outside the planet and also other planets. Perhaps there is also planet with abundant nature and life somewhere in that vast universe.」
What Hajime and others vaguely called “other world” wasn’t a “different planet” that existed inside the same universe by all means. The universe itself was different from their universe, and the planet that they knew there was nothing more than a single planet inside that different universe.
Hajime once more spoke of the great premise that he had to base his perception on while tossing the tablet in his hand on the desk. He joined his hands behind his head and leaned back deeply on his chair. He stared at the empty space in order to sort his thinking.
「In other words, the “nine other worlds”, should be called as “nine other universes” to be more accurate……」
The scan literally shows that he is saying these realms are universes.Having both the compass and infinite energy. Why didn't Hajime know about the size of the realms or that they are actual universes ?
To avoid spoilers I didn't give much context.The scan literally shows that he is saying these realms are universes.
The gap is the branch because the universes exist in the branch.To avoid spoilers I didn't give much context.
Hajime has just been told that the nine realms are actual universes by Foltina(Desert World goddess).
Previously, he only knew that they are other planets that could possibly exist in the same universe.
My problem is that the compass can give him the size or the distance of the gap between realms, and when they travel the realms they only seems to have a problem with the consumption of the energy necessary to travel the gap but not the universe. And don't about the gap being a place where beings who transcend space-time (like the whale or the tower) reside.
Does this mean the gap>the realms? or support the branch being a higher dimension?
Keep in mind this is Hajime with infinite energy=infinite range
No, the branch that encompass everything is different than the gap.The gap is the branch because the universes exist in the branch.
「If even a goddess will turn like that, it’ll be dangerous to go out of my way to investigate with the compass huh……」
He summoned the compass on his hand. He toyed with that object that was shaped like pocket watch on his palm while recalling when he searched for existence outside of the nine worlds.
The result went without saying. The compass showed no reaction at all.
Perhaps there was a powerful partition that even the compass was unable to grasp. Or perhaps something like the rule of the world was obstructing it.
Either way, he had no intention of going as far as braving danger just to ascertain it.
At the very least until he was able to secure his own safety.
Ch 470
No mention of the gap here. Anyway, whatever.No, the branch that encompass everything is different than the gap.
What I meant is that his range was big enough to measure the gap but couldn't reach outside the nine realms(i.e. the branch) even with infinite energy.No mention of the gap here. Anyway, whatever.
That's actually a good pointThe gap is the branch because the universes exist in the branch.
Hmm I can't explain to you properly what I mean. I'm very bad at explaining. What I mean is, the gap is the branch, but a finite measure of that space. Since the universes reside in the branch, you see that the gap can only be a tiny portion of the branch.What I meant is that his range was big enough to measure the gap but couldn't reach outside the nine realms(i.e. the branch) even with infinite energy.
In the scan, "partition "or "rule of the world" is refering to the branch.
It's still vague, but atleast we know that the branch is bigger or higher than the realms and the gap between them.
There are finite distances between different objects or spaces within an infinite sized universe or dimension.Hmm I can't explain to you properly what I mean. I'm very bad at explaining. What I mean is, the gap is the branch, but a finite measure of that space. Since the universes reside in the branch, you see that the gap can only be a tiny portion of the branch.
I get your point.Hmm I can't explain to you properly what I mean. I'm very bad at explaining. What I mean is, the gap is the branch, but a finite measure of that space. Since the universes reside in the branch, you see that the gap can only be a tiny portion of the branch.
Lutria's world coordinate「Tsu, no, reaction?」
「……Hajime?」
The compass’s effective range was in proportion with the amount of magic power poured into it.
With the magic power he poured right now, just a mere distance from here to Akiba, no, even if it was anywhere in Japan the compass would be able to cover it. And yet, there was no reaction. Shia wasn’t within the search range.
Hajime leaped down from the bed and his magic power surged even more. As expected, there was no way the activation of magic power that tremendous would be unnoticed. Downstairs he could feel Tio was taken aback. The sound of her immediately going up the stairs in hurry could be heard. Ch 336
Why couldn't reach outside the nine realms ?‘It’s pointless no matter where you hide. After all I already remember your face and also this world’s coordinate. Eh? Eh?’, with a yakuza face that seemed to say that, Yue-sama crouched beside the star tree Lutria and glared at her. Ch 343
Didn't know that. But nothing here about the universes being infinite just that the gap seem significant in size by comparison.There are finite distances between different objects or spaces within an infinite sized universe or dimension.
It make sense.Basically the gap between worlds is the branch and is likely infinite in size, however Earth and Tortus aren't necessarily an infinite distance from each other...in fact we know they very clearly aren't.