Arifureta Shokugyou de Sekai Saikyou Discussion Thread 2

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

1. Concept Magic doesn't seem to shape all of reality even within a set area of influence.
2. Concept Magic doesn't seem to affect everything that participates in said concept.

I think Type 3 CM is more closely aligned with the explanations of Concept Magic.

Not the guy to unswere this stuff(Ask Expectroo) but I'll try


1. It's not limited by reality and it mean nothing to it, just need will to make something happen
2. It does


You're talking about conception and Goddess authority here, unlike them concept magic is not limited to any realm or its creator.
(Hajime compass is only limited to the nine realms)
Goddess authority=concept magic

Concept magic has no rules or limitation(Zero Vol 6) and it's just ancient magic and will raised to a higher level

Concept magic>ancient magic

All the ancient magic are useless against concept magic and can only be resisted through will or anothet concept magic.

The branch that hold the nine realms(CM ?)>Nine realms(CM 1)=Concept magic=Goddess authority(limitedCM 1)>Ancient Magic

Then there is conception that could help characters resist the goddess authority and concept magic.


Goddess authority and conception being limited to their realm without the great tree could prove that each realm has its own Concepts type 1, we might even add ancient magic to them if Ehit world was completly destroyed.

The root of the realm

『The majestic great tree. The protector tree of the sea of trees. The symbol of the holy ground. As someone who has been together with the great tree ever since I was born, there is something that I have been sensing somehow all this time.』

Was this just the biggest and oldest tree in the world?

Was it the center of the sea of trees?

No, that wasn’t all there was to it. This tree wasn’t something that could simply be described as this world’s symbol.

『It’s more, yes, it feels like this tree is taking root even deeper, until the core of this world……I am not talking about physically, but conceptually, it feels like the tree is connected to something that surpass human’s understanding……pardon me. I can’t really describe it well……』

Lyutilis stared at empty air as she desperately tried to put the sensation she was feeling into words, however, in the end she couldn’t find the right word and smiled wryly. She then turned her gaze toward Hajime and co again.

But there, her eyes were the eyes of a transcendental who had arrived at the highest peak of human knowledge. It was the shudderingly deep gaze of the user of an age of god magic for interfering with information.

『But, please at least remember this. That the great tree is not merely an ancient and large tree. Losing the great tree might possibly lead to a disaster that cannot be undone.』Ch 437

She know about concept and still could't describe the tree's nature, and the goodess authority that come from the tree was said to be equal to concept magic but for a single realm.

I think that each realm has its own independent concept and this tree is connected to it, and its destruction can lead to the destruction of the world. Probably what happen to Ehit world, otherwise they could just find another planet.

1. "Personal concepts that continue to govern the object in question, merely on a specific scale, or concepts whose nature is not elaborated upon." This literally describes Arifuerta's Concept Magic to a tee.

Scale= the whole nine realms
Like the compass

This is just how I view Concept Magic at the moment, from everything we've experienced so far in the story. I'm not trying to change the profiles or anything, I am just expressing my thoughts. Regardless, I think the precise metaphysical understanding of Concept Magic, Conceptions, and the Collective Unconcious is very very shall currently in Ariferuta. So until Shirakome-san decides to drop some real knowledge on us, my view will likely remain the same.

I know, we have 500 chapter and still got nothing about Ehit world.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

I just said I could kinda see the argument. My above comment should perfectly elaborate on where I see everything regarding the concept magic. As for Dragon Factor, I just gave a devil's advocate argument on how you COULD potentially make it conceptual, but I don't really think the soul itself is conceptual. Unless we are distinguishing the Dragon Factor as simply being an element written into one's fundamental existence, in this case the soul, and therefore Dragon Factor can be conceptual while the soul itself is not.

OK

We agree on the soul not being conceptual but it has the property to gain abstract quality(being worshiped) or attribute(ancient magic, dragon factor). Right ?

All I would say is that due to the nature of Concept Magic being not necessarily being archetypal in nature and moreso personal dependant concepts (the fact that "stronger" concepts can be made adds to the credence). It's not particularly surprising that one's existence can evolve to a point of being unaffected by said "weaker" concepts. At least that'd be the straightforward explanation.

It's not dependant

Both are created by the soul, concept magic(will) and godhood( absorbing thoughts, worships, prayers, ideas...)

You could also come at it from the angle of conception playing a role in the so-called "divinity" he's referring to. If that's the case then he's actually saying that because his conception (the collective unconscious) of his existence has grown so powerful that simple concept magic can't undo/erase his existence. But we don't enough about how conceptions really compare to Concept Magic.

Again, conception could protect from ancient magic and resist the goddess authority like how the DRAGON was too strong that it could fight Earth and Heaven goddesses and end killing one and the other barely survived. It was stated that is something that could fight a god bron from countless faiths.

We don't the origin of it's conception, but it's likely Ehit's world because no realm had anything similar to it.

So, if it's idea kept existing after the destruction of Ehit world will have enough proof for type 1.(Nothing for now)

And don't forget that apparition could still exist on Earth while the tree was dead

「There are two possibilities that come to mind.」

The first possibility was that the existences that were talked in legend weren’t just fantasy existences, but creatures that really existed in reality.

In other words they were similar existences like the devils. Devils are mythological existences that were talked in bible and the like, but they were actually otherworlders who really existed in another world called hell. Similar with that, if they were just a strange creature then they had no need for thought elements.

And then the other possibility was “the existences crossed from the fairy world before the king tree perished and they were surviving until now”.

「There is no thought element so if they die then that’s it for them. They can’t revive like in fairy world, but the conception of them itself exist. Without external factor affecting them, it’s possible for them to continue existing without going mad.」Ch 402

Did you forgot that they were fighting Earth apparition while the connection with Earth was cut off, and even when their body was destroyed before the connection they could still revive with no problem after it.

To destroy an apparition you must destroy their conception across all the realms to completly destroy them.

Although simple based on the fact that destroying the avatar of the conception doesn't erase the conception from existence. As well as the conception being able to manipulate everything "participating" in said concept does lead me to believe it's Type 2. If you add on the fact that there's nothing that insinuates that you can destroy said conception via destroying all dragons for example....then Conception is likely Type 1.

Nothing about conception being dependant on their creator, but on the conception(idea, myth...) If all their believer or woshipers are dead they'll just stop getting empowerment from it, but won't stop existing.

TLDR: Conception = Type 1 at best, Type 2 at worst. Concept Magic = Type 3 at best, Non-Qualifying at worst. Ancient Magic = Non-Qualifying at best, not conceptual at worst.

Just Ask the one gave them CM.(Expectro)