Arifureta Shokugyou de Sekai Saikyou Discussion Thread 2

[Community_Gamer]

I remember telling you about Yue fire spell that completly destroy souls. Naiz erasing his village from the map. BH that annihilate anything.

I don't remember getting a scsn for the Yue thing. Naiz....I thought he just like essentially BFR'd his village. Does anyone's (Yue or Miledi's) BH completely destroy someone's body? I don't recall that happening but I haven't finished Zero so I could be wrong.

They got him in AP and smurf, but remember Arifureta is still going and they haven't even explore all the nine realms.

Yeah I don't see Arifureta even being remotely comparable in terms of hax or AP.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

I don't remember getting a scsn for the Yue thing.

「――”Flame of Divine Punishment”」

Inside Yue’s opened palm, a small blue star was floating quietly. The next moment, it spread to the city like an aurora pouring down from the sky.

It was a divine flame that penetrated through all kind of obstacles and destroyed only the selected soul, or everything else other than the selected soul. Only those who were allowed by Yue would survive. Those who were ascertained as enemy would disappear.

The demons that were touched by the blue flame of god raised the scream of death agony one after another and vanished.

The cultists also collapsed and lost consciousness from the impact when their mind’s connection to the demons was burned forcefully. Ch 312

Naiz....I thought he just like essentially BFR'd his village.

He erased a section of space and his village and people along with it.

Does anyone's (Yue or Miledi's) BH completely destroy someone's body? I don't recall that happening but I haven't finished Zero so I could be wrong.

――Ultimate gravity magic Black Sky Destitution

Its size was unprecedented. Four of them were formed simultaneously at the east, west, north, and south of the Heaven Tree.

Anything that was in their range, whether the surrounding apparitions in the sky, or the apparitions on the ground 「Even though we’re kneeling!?」, even the divine class got mercilessly sucked in.

The unrivaled suction power that was impossible to escape from devoured the apparitions greedily. Such sight was like a nightmare.

“Black Sky Destitution” was different from the similar gravity magic “Severance Calamity”. It wasn’t a magic to reduce the target into dust using gravitational pressure. It was an annihilation magic.

There was no problem here because the residents of fairy world could revive somewhere as long as they had concept and thought element, but if that wasn’t the case, there was a possibility that the racial power balance of this world would crumble from the destruction here. Ch 417

And erasing Ehit dimension with a black hole

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Yeah I don't see Arifureta even being remotely comparable in terms of hax or AP.

Wait until ancient magic become a 5D hax, and everyone get big upgrades to their soul like Acusality type 4 that include every hax from ancient magic and conception becoming NEP.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

What do you think about making a CRT for the holy sanctuary ?


Mostly to solidify Grasp gloria and the planet infinite energy, and the DRAGON eventually reaching universal scale.

 

[Community_Gamer]

What do you think about making a CRT for the holy sanctuary ?

How would you format? And what changes are hoping for?

Mostly to solidify Grasp gloria and the planet infinite energy, and the DRAGON eventually reaching universal scale.

Well Grasp Gloria and Hajime controlling the planet's energy are already on the profile. DRAGON doesn't even have a profile so I really see what you hoping for in that case.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

How would you format?

I don't know

I can prove that space magic create spacetime(boundary) instead or just 3D spaces (Miniature Garden, Heavenly star barrier and the holy sanctuary)

Spatial Magic (空くう間かん魔法まほう, Kūkan Mahō?) allows the user to manipulate the space around themselves, allowing them to either bend or expand the space near them or move themselves to another space or location. The true power of this magic is the ability to 'interfere with the boundary'. Meaning it can allow the user to manipulate anything, like elimination of race-creature gap, or formulating a new boundary to create the spirit world; its possible to achieve those kinds of things.

“That’s... amazing.” Shizuku’s eyes went wide as she looked down at the sword in her hands. But this was just the tip of the iceberg. Hajime continued his explanation, and the more Shizuku heard, the wider her eyes got.

Supposedly, thanks to the spatial magic it had been enchanted with, she could cut through space-time itself. Supposedly, thanks to the restoration magic it had been enchanted with, it could restore itself from any amount of damage. On top of that, it granted its wielder a restorative aura that slowly healed their wounds.

Boundary space-time

Miniature Garden(separate space-time): it follow flat Earth theory and the land withincould expand endlessly with the planet energy while the size of the space-time(spherical barrier/boundary) is defined by Hajime, he also control the flow of time.

Holy sanctuary(separate space-time): it has dimension with a sun and, endless library and a space between dimensions.

Heavenly star barrier(separated space-time): it's an image of Japan(or bigger) and it has a red moon. It's guardian can control the foow of time.

Another feat is Fortina creating a barrier around the universe to prevent dimensional traveler like outsiders from entering it.

And what changes are hoping for?

Not sure yet

That Hajime can absorb at least a planetry level of energy and use it to expand the Miniature Garden Or that Space magic and other ancient magic are 4D, or that the planet energy is 4D for creating and sustaining those dimensions(Like Danny Phantom 4D ectoplasm) .

Even elements could end up as smurf for being able to shake the interval through connecting the realms

「Then you can leave after doing those. I’ll tell the demons to observe round the clock. ……Well, that world is really close to earth that you can connect even through things like “water” or “mirror”. This might be just a needless fear.」

『Aa, now that you mention it. Perhaps that’s the reason there isn’t any time difference there?』

A Although the great trees connect the realms the time synchronisation must be done by the goddess.

And don't forget the spirit whale using mist(wind) to send them to a city outside the space-times.

All of them use energy

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Well Grasp Gloria and Hajime controlling the planet's energy are already on the profile.

Maybe how much energy he could handle

DRAGON doesn't even have a profile so I really see what you hoping for in that case.

Did you meant "I don't really" ?

Well better start now than never

That thing could even be from a forgotten conception, but still exist. That's why they don't know much about it.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

BTW, these could work for causality manipulation but to the past

• Time Manipulation, Restoration and Retrocognition (Can return things to a prior state. Can reproduce images of events that occurred in the past,[26] and also reopen wounds that occurred in the past[24])

Time Manipulation, Restoration and Retrocognition (Restoration magic allows her to interfere with time. Using this she can reopen wounds that occurred in the past,[11] and also peer into the past[12])

Returning things to it's original state is done through reversing of something or someone as we can see them slowly returning to their past state. But reopening wounds is returning the body to a state before healing. The wound just appear back on the person instantly without any time reversal.
It's done through reading the person past and sending his body back to that state.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Space-time:

Spatial magic was magic that manipulated boundaries. Meaning it could be used to create entire dimensions as well as manipulate the boundaries between fantasy and reality. A skilled master could turn reality into illusion and illusions into reality.

Time:

Restoration magic was magic that manipulated time. Which explained why in her message, Meiru had described it as magic that restores and not magic that heals. However, it could do more than just restore things to a previous state. Since it could interfere with time directly, it could be used to look into the past or potential futures based on set decision variables. Shea’s Future Sight was, in fact, just one application of restoration magic.

It seem that space magic can create space-time, and manipulate the space-time while time magic manipulate it's temporal axis specifically.

So, space magic create dimensions with space-time. This explain why time flow through the Miniature Garden since the creation of his storage ring, but he still needed the hour glass artifact to speed up the flow of time within.

Yes, to the world inside the “treasure warehouse” ――the “Miniature Garden”.

Even the immense energy of a planet’s worth wouldn’t be too much if it was assigned to grow the world of Miniature Garden. As a side benefit, it could also be appropriated for accelerating the growth of Miniature Garden’s great tree――the Treasure Tree and the divine spirits.

There was no time, so Hajime also implemented time acceleration using Hour Crystal and Tio’s regeneration magic. Ch 424

All pocket dimensions are 4D.

 

[Community_Gamer]

I don't know

I can prove that space magic create spacetime(boundary) instead or just 3D spaces (Miniature Garden, Heavenly star barrier and the holy sanctuary)


Boundary space-time

This is already on the relevant character pages no?

Miniature Garden(separate space-time): it follow flat Earth theory and the land withincould expand endlessly with the planet energy while the size of the space-time(spherical barrier/boundary) is defined by Hajime, he also control the flow of time.

Holy sanctuary(separate space-time): it has dimension with a sun and, endless library and a space between dimensions.

Heavenly star barrier(separated space-time): it's an image of Japan(or bigger) and it has a red moon. It's guardian can control the foow of time.

Another feat is Fortina creating a barrier around the universe to prevent dimensional traveler like outsiders from entering it.

Unless you are making a cosmology page, I don't see the relevance of bringing this up on a CRT.

Not sure yet

That Hajime can absorb at least a planetry level of energy and use it to expand the Miniature Garden Or that Space magic and other ancient magic are 4D, or that the planet energy is 4D for creating and sustaining those dimensions(Like Danny Phantom 4D ectoplasm) .

Even elements could end up as smurf for being able to shake the interval through connecting the realms

A Although the great trees connect the realms the time synchronisation must be done by the goddess.

And don't forget the spirit whale using mist(wind) to send them to a city outside the space-times.

All of them use energy

I don't see this resulting in much if anything. The Ancient Magics would just be categorized as hax, so even if it can manipulate space-time (we already knew it could) that doesn't really change the scaling. Also, the Earth's energy supplying the creation of the Miniature Garden doesn't necessarily mean the energy itself is 4D especially since creation feats are typically seen as hax. For you to assert that it is 4D then you either need a blatant statement saying so OR the realm itself would have to be stated to be 4D. Then you could argue that the energy itself is likely higher dimensional. Unfortunately, the fact that the main property of Earth's energy is that its endless/infinite so I really do see that happening.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

This is already on the relevant character pages no?

No, they don't even have space-time manipulation.

Unless you are making a cosmology page, I don't see the relevance of bringing this up on a CRT.

Important details

I don't see this resulting in much if anything. The Ancient Magics would just be categorized as hax, so even if it can manipulate space-time (we already knew it could) that doesn't really change the scaling. Also, the Earth's energy supplying the creation of the Miniature Garden doesn't necessarily mean the energy itself is 4D especially since creation feats are typically seen as hax.

The planet doesn't just create them, but also sustain them which enough.

Danny Phantom: Ghost Energy = 4-D in potency?

I already have a feeling this is going to fail hard, but hey, it's worth a shot. You read the title correctly, here is my attempt at making ectoplasmic energy/ectoplasm 4-D in potency... This is either going to be the biggest L in VS battle wiki history, or the greatest W since... well since...

vsbattles.com

Holy sanctuary have huge to endless worlds inside and the Miniature Garden sphere could handle an endless flat world according to Hajime, but he choose to limit it cause it will be easier to manage.

For you to assert that it is 4D then you either need a blatant statement saying so OR the realm itself would have to be stated to be 4D.

I already did.

What they use to create them is hax that create boundary(space-time) and two of them have show to have a different time flow while being separted from the world.

 

[Community_Gamer]

Space-time:

Time:

It seem that space magic can create space-time, and manipulate the space-time while time magic manipulate it's temporal axis specifically.

Not necessarily. If you believe in the concept of space-time then space and time are symbiotic. For example, if you destroyed a space then time likely wouldn't pass or exist there either. It's just that most of the spells/abilities of Space Magic target space on a small scale or manipulate the boundary of various things. The same is true of Restoration Magic. Another way to look at it is this: if you create a dimension or separate a space from reality, does that space/dimension have time flow or is there even time present?

So, space magic create dimensions with space-time. This explain why time flow through the Miniature Garden since the creation of his storage ring, but he still needed the hour glass artifact to speed up the flow of time within.

All pocket dimensions are 4D.

Space-time being 4D doesn't mean the dimension itself is.

Another way to think of it is: If you have a basket (multiverse) filled with eggs (universes), are the shells (space-time) of the eggs comparable to the basket (multiverse) for containing egg yok (space) inside? Is the egg yok (universe/physical space) comparable to the shell (space-time) containing it?

Hopefully that wasn't too confusing, If so I apologize

 

[Community_Gamer]

No, they don't even have space-time manipulation.

Alright, then they should have that.

The planet doesn't just create them, but also sustain them which enough.

Danny Phantom: Ghost Energy = 4-D in potency?

I already have a feeling this is going to fail hard, but hey, it's worth a shot. You read the title correctly, here is my attempt at making ectoplasmic energy/ectoplasm 4-D in potency... This is either going to be the biggest L in VS battle wiki history, or the greatest W since... well since...

vsbattles.com

I've read this....there's a lot I could say why these circumstances aren't really comparable but instead I'll just be concise and respectful.

If you create a CRT on this level that has similarly valid and sound reasoning, then I will support the change. However, as far as I know, there isn't anyone who directly scales to the Earth's energy. So I don't see what this would accomplish in the long run.

Holy sanctuary have huge to endless worlds inside and the Miniature Garden sphere could handle an endless flat world according to Hajime, but he choose to limit it cause it will be easier to manage.

That'd just be Low Multi at best on its own if we were to take the statement hyperliterally. Which I don't think we necessarily would considering that means Ehit was Low Multi yet struggled against Hajime who didn't even have any planetary feats.

I already did.

What they use to create them is hax that create boundary(space-time) and two of them have show to have a different time flow while being separted from the world.

I agree that the creation hax 4D but again it takes a lot more to prove the Earth's energy or the space in the realm (not the space-time) is 4D.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Not necessarily. If you believe in the concept of space-time then space and time are symbiotic. For example, if you destroyed a space then time likely wouldn't pass or exist there either. It's just that most of the spells/abilities of Space Magic target space on a small scale or manipulate the boundary of various things. The same is true of Restoration Magic.

I get you

But it manipulate space-time because it's a form of boundary not because they're connected. And I have a few statments that refer to the universe as boundary locked/sealed or an independent system further supported by pocket dimensions being separate and hard to enter or leave even with ancient magic.

Don't forget about the world door synchronizing time and the goddesses being able to do the same if the realms are connected. And water, mist, light synchronizing the realms through portals.

There is also the feat of shaking the interval by Unknown and possibly Ehit.

Another way to look at it is this: if you create a dimension or separate a space from reality, does that space/dimension have time flow or is there even time present?

I already showed two instances alongside the fact that tie was passing in Ehit dimension.

Yes, it seem that Although they're separated they're still follow the universal time, but that creator can change that.

Space-time being 4D doesn't mean the dimension itself is.

That's literally what it mean

Another way to think of it is: If you have a basket (multiverse) filled with eggs (universes), are the shells (space-time) of the eggs comparable to the basket (multiverse) for containing egg yok (space) inside? Is the egg yok (universe/physical space) comparable to the shell (space-time) containing it?

You made it worse

But no, I'm not refering to what inside but to the boundary of said dimension.

I've read this....there's a lot I could say why these circumstances aren't really comparable but instead I'll just be concise and respectful.

If you create a CRT on this level that has similarly valid and sound reasoning, then I will support the change. However, as far as I know, there isn't anyone who directly scales to the Earth's energy. So I don't see what this would accomplish in the long run.

1)Creating boundaries(space-time) that could surround endless land within.

2)Someone through a "work of god" locked the realm of demons and this seems to be the case for all of them. That's why Lutria called the realms an independent systems.

3)Possible universal barrier to prevent outsider from entering the universe.(I've asked a translator and he agree)

4)Goddesses using the planet energy to synchronise time between other universes.

5)World doors synchronizing the time of the universe.

6)Statment about the DRAGON reaching tier 3 once he recover from absorbing the planet energy and reach his true form


We have the great trees representing the "core of the world" on a conceprual level and both time and space being a fundamental aspects of reality(concept) and the compass being restricted by a higher law or patrion.
Won't the branch become tier 1 for transcending the concepts of space and time ?

That'd just be Low Multi at best on its own if we were to take the statement hyperliterally. Which I don't think we necessarily would considering that means Ehit was Low Multi yet struggled against Hajime who didn't even have any planetary feats.

You know he used the planet energy to make it ?

"Struggle"

He was defeat purely by hax and a good ol plan.

I agree that the creation hax 4D but again it takes a lot more to prove the Earth's energy or the space in the realm (not the space-time) is 4D.

Are you asking about the size of the realms ?
Because they are universes with their own time.

And already proved that boundaries are separate space-times that varies in size.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Ether≈Soul≈Lifeforce

Arifureta: Mana≈Soul≈Lifeforce

(Previous thread) Let's take a look at the definition of soul magic Spirit Magic: The ability to interfere with souls. The more precise definition of spirit magic is magic that manipulates the incorporeal elements of sentient beings. In more concrete terms, it could be used to manipulate the...

vsbattles.com

 

[Community_Gamer]

I get you

But it manipulate space-time because it's a form of boundary not because they're connected. And I have a few statments that refer to the universe as boundary locked/sealed or an independent system further supported by pocket dimensions being separate and hard to enter or leave even with ancient magic.

Don't forget about the world door synchronizing time and the goddesses being able to do the same if the realms are connected. And water, mist, light synchronizing the realms through portals.

There is also the feat of shaking the interval by Unknown and possibly Ehit.

None of this really addresses what I'm saying, but let's move on since you already admitted what I wanted you to later on.

Yes, it seem that Although they're separated they're still follow the universal time, but that creator can change that.

Yes, that's the point of the question and what I was trying to convey above. Cool, let's move on.

That's literally what it mean

So you think the boundary is equivalent to the space inside? This is precisely why I gave my basket analogy. Also, you contradict this point later.

You made it worse

But no, I'm not refering to what inside but to the boundary of said dimension.

You said earlier that because space-time is 4D the dimension itself was also. So now you are just agreeing with me that isn't the case. If you agree then I don't see how are going to prove that Earth's energy is (or any planetary energy) higher dimensional. I say this because the main reason why the Danny Phantom CRT worked was that the Ghost Zone is just entirely made of ectoplasm. The Ghost Zone was also just constantly shifting to different realities and times making it essentially like a dimension comprised entirely of space-time.

1)Creating boundaries(space-time) that could surround endless land within.

2)Someone through a "work of god" locked the realm of demons and this seems to be the case for all of them. That's why Lutria called the realms an independent systems.

3)Possible universal barrier to prevent outsider from entering the universe.(I've asked a translator and he agree)

4)Goddesses using the planet energy to synchronise time between other universes.

5)World doors synchronizing the time of the universe.

6)Statment about the DRAGON reaching tier 3 once he recover from absorbing the planet energy and reach his true form

Make the CRT then we'll talk.

We have the great trees representing the "core of the world" on a conceprual level and both time and space being a fundamental aspects of reality(concept) and the compass being restricted by a higher law or patrion.
Won't the branch become tier 1 for transcending the concepts of space and time ?

If you really think Arifueta has Outer scaling then go ahead and make a thread. However, always ask yourself, why are you making it? Does this make sense? Is it consistent?

You know he used the planet energy to make it ?

"Struggle"

He was defeat purely by hax and a good ol plan.

Are you saying Ehit is around country-level normally and was ampped to Low Multi when he used the planet's energy? Or are you saying Ehit simply never scaled to the dimension he created and it's all hax? Also, you are missing the point of what I was saying. Hajime could take attacks and damage Ehit so they do scale to each other. You have to consider prior scaling whenever you try to upscale a character.

Are you asking about the size of the realms ?
Because they are universes with their own time.

And already proved that boundaries are separate space-times that varies in size.

No dimensionality doesn't have anything to do with size. At least not in a relative sense. Regardless you already conceded to the point I was making here above. So let's move on.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

So you think the boundary is equivalent to the space inside? This is precisely why I gave my basket analogy. Also, you contradict this point later.

Yes

Hajime literally said that he adjusted the space of the Miniature Garden to the size and shape of Earth. And from the infinite energy that keep flowing from earth the size of the land will keep expanding endlessly while the size and the shape of the space and even its time is under his comand .

That's why land started reached the barrier and start growing alongside it which will cause it to evetually cover the land like a dome.

BTW, the land has gravity meaning the up and down don't matter.

You said earlier that because space-time is 4D the dimension itself was also. So now you are just agreeing with me that isn't the case. If you agree then I don't see how are going to prove that Earth's energy is (or any planetary energy) higher dimensional. I say this because the main reason why the Danny Phantom CRT worked was that the Ghost Zone is just entirely made of ectoplasm. The Ghost Zone was also just constantly shifting to different realities and times making it essentially like a dimension comprised entirely of space-time.

Make sense, atleast we know from it that the space-time don't need to be of universal size.

Are you saying Ehit is around country-level normally and was ampped to Low Multi when he used the planet's energy? Or are you saying Ehit simply never scaled to the dimension he created and it's all hax? Also, you are missing the point of what I was saying. Hajime could take attacks and damage Ehit so they do scale to each other. You have to consider prior scaling whenever you try to upscale a character.

It was done through energy and hax

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

I'll wait until the WN end because we just got a possible evidence for the existence of a dreamland in Ch 517.

Right after Hajime left for his vacation

1)People all over the world srart dying from unknown causes.(Not a demon or an apparition)
2)Earth conception is expanding due to the supernatural phenomenon happening arround the world.
3)The school bus driver lost her mind, and when she woke up she asked "is this the great land of dreams ?"


Hoping for a Lovecraft related arc

 

[Community_Gamer]

Yes

You keep contradicting yourself on this point. Anyways Imma drop this. You can make the CRT if you want.

Hajime literally said that he adjusted the space of the Miniature Garden to the size and shape of Earth. And from the infinite energy that keep flowing from earth the size of the land will keep expanding endlessly while the size and the shape of the space and even its time is under his comand .

That's why land started reached the barrier and start growing alongside it which will cause it to evetually cover the land like a dome.

BTW, the land has gravity meaning the up and down don't matter.

I don't want to be rude but this doesn't have anything to do with the point I'm making.

Make sense, atleast we know from it that the space-time don't need to be of universal size.

Yeah, its relative size means nothing. An infinitely large 3D space is still incomparable to the smallest metric of a 4D object.

It was done through energy and hax

So you agree that he doesn't scale to it. Alright cool.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

I don't want to be rude but this doesn't have anything to do with the point I'm making.

Then I didn't get the question.

The size of the space is the size the boundary

 

[Community_Gamer]

Then I didn't get the question.

The size of the is the size the boundary

This comment just tells me that you don't understand how dimensionality works.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

This comment just tells me that you don't understand how dimensionality works.

Then do you mind explaining it ?

 

[Community_Gamer]

Then do you mind explaining it ?

If you have a circle and stack it infinitely could you ever get a sphere? No. The reason is because of how the axis work. A square can only interact with 2 axes (dimensions). Those being height (up and down) and length (left and right), a sphere adds the axis or dimension of width (forward and back).

So in the same way that a 2D object can't extend infinitely and ever reach a 3D object (because there's a beyond-inaccessible difference between them). The same with a 3D object or space and a 4D construct. So why would the size of a 3-dimensional space ever correlate to the size of a 4-dimensional construct (space-time)?\

The answer is that it wouldn't. It is completely irrelevant how much surface area the Miniature Garden has, infinite or not. The boundary, the space-time, transcends the space contained inside it. This also means that simply having a space-time wouldn't tell you how large the actual physical space inside said dimension is.

The only reason we might care about the size of the Miniature Garden is if you want to scale the AP to High Universal, well technically that wouldn't apply to it since it has never been that large but it could be. However, if the Miniature Garden has its own space-time then whatever created it (the space-time/boundary not the space inside). Then it should logically have higher dimensional scaling aka Universal+ in this case.

Are we good? Because I'm kinda over this topic

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

If you have a circle and stack it infinitely could you ever get a sphere? No. The reason is because of how the axis work. A square can only interact with 2 axes (dimensions). Those being height (up and down) and length (left and right), a sphere adds the axis or dimension of width (forward and back).

I knew this

The reason I said they were the same size is because the boundary of the Miniature Garden is a spherical spatial barrier(x,y,z) the size of Earth with a temporal axis.

I thought size only apply to it's spatial dimensions. Is the temporal dimension a form of size ?

The only reason we might care about the size of the Miniature Garden is if you want to scale the AP to High Universal, well technically that wouldn't apply to it since it has never been that large but it could be. However, if the Miniature Garden has its own space-time then whatever created it (the space-time/boundary not the space inside). Then it should logically have higher dimensional scaling aka Universal+ in this case.

Just to make this clear, I only want to use it to solidify the planet having that much energy.

Are we good? Because I'm kinda over this topic

Yeah

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

I think I've figure out why concept magic need mana.

I made it clear that mana and soul are just the same energy(planet energy), which make them both fundamental energy taking different forms with different properties like telekinesis for mana.

When will materialize into reality, it will require mana(info type 2) because it's a concept independent from reality and technically doesns't exist in it. The evidence is that it's superior to ancient magic(laws behind reality itself) and when Lilitus tried analyzing it she couldn't see anything.
It could mean that you can see the object, spell, soul and entity but the concept(will, conception...) behind it is not there cause it's not a part of reality.

The best example of this are apparitions. Abstract beings that manifest into the world through their planet energy(element of thought) and require said energy to keep existing.

「There are two possibilities that come to mind.」

The first possibility was that the existences that were talked in legend weren’t just fantasy existences, but creatures that really existed in reality.

In other words they were similar existences like the devils. Devils are mythological existences that were talked in bible and the like, but they were actually otherworlders who really existed in another world called hell. Similar with that, if they were just a strange creature then they had no need for thought elements.

And then the other possibility was “the existences crossed from the fairy world before the king tree perished and they were surviving until now”.

「There is no thought element so if they die then that’s it for them. They can’t revive like in fairy world, but the conception of them itself exist. Without external factor affecting them, it’s possible for them to continue existing without going mad.」Ch 402

"Going mad" is when the realm are disconnected and their conception can't reach the fairy world. When that happen they start acting based on their instinct(Their myth). It also prove there is different conception for each realm.


Similar feats:
1)The goddess inside the holy sword start healing her soul when she was in the fairy world and the apostles achieved a complete manifestion from their conception.

2)The elemental spirits clone (independent soul fragments) regain their full power and form after absorbing Earth energy.



What do you think ?

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Proof that souls is the source of their laws and CM

Kouki manipulating his soul

“Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!”

Though his mana should have been depleted, it flared up again as Kouki screamed, sending a spiral of pure-white energy rising toward the heavens. However—

“Kouki, stop! If you keep going, you’ll kill yourself!” Shizuku screamed.“Wait, he’ll do what?! Shizuku, what’s going on?! I thought you cut off his mana?!”

“I did! I sliced clean through his mana repository! He’s not absorbing the nearby ether to produce more mana!”

“Then how’s he getting more?!”

“By converting something else! I don’t know if he’s using up his life force or his soul or what, but he’s transforming it all into mana! It’s probably something he can do because he can use Limit Break! Either way, this isn’t good!”

“Goddammit, Kouki, come back to your senses already!”

Indeed, Kouki was creating this mana by burning away his own life. Abilities that overturned the natural laws of the universe always came with a steep cost...and they were practically never worth the price. Vol 12 p139

(The natural laws of the universe)
And it could be an evidence that limit break is a form of self soul manipulation.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Some illustrations of Vol 14

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Some illustrations of Vol 14

From a post:
ToC of LN Vol.14 is also revealed.

• 第一章 ありふれた (?) 南雲家の朝 前編 [Chapter 1: An Ordinary (?) Morning at the Nagumo Family, Part 1]
• 第二章 ありふれた (?) 南雲家の朝 後編 [Chapter 2: An Ordinary (?) Morning at the Nagumo Family, Part 2]
• 第三章 南雲家の休日 [Chapter 3: The Nagumo Family's Holiday]
• 第四章 天使の守護者 [Chapter 4: The Angel Guardian]
• 第五章 八重樫家の秘密 [Chapter 5: The Secret of the Yaegashi Family]
• 第六章 愛子先生の悩み [Chapter 6: Aiko-sensei's Worries]
• 第七章 ありふれきれていない学生生活 [Chapter 7: An Unordinary Student Life]
• 第八章 終業式と再会 [Chapter 8: The End-of-Term Ceremony and Reunion]
• 第九章 初めてのクリスマス [Chapter 9: The First Christmas]
• 第十章 激動の一年を乗り越えて [Chapter 10: Overcoming a Turbulent Year]
• 第十一章 新年を新しい家族と共に [Chapter 11: A New Year with a New Family]

 

[Community_Gamer]

I knew this

The reason I said they were the same size is because the boundary of the Miniature Garden is a spherical spatial barrier(x,y,z) the size of Earth with a temporal axis.

I thought size only apply to it's dpatial dimensions. Is the temporal dimension a form of size ?

I don't want to dwell on this, but I do, want to clear up one misunderstanding. Yes, temporal axes exist and may have different sizes, but we don't know since it's not observable by humans. But I was only ever talking about spatial dimensions here. The 4th dimension isn't time, it's another spatial axis that is unobservable to lower-dimensional beings. Much like how you probably can't imagine a person or object that lacks width entirely, we as 3-dimensional entities can't comprehend what the 4th axis would look like.

 

[Community_Gamer]

I think I've figure out why concept magic need mana.

I made it clear that mana and soul are just the same energy(planet energy), which make them both fundamental energy taking different forms with different properties like telekinesis for mana.

When will materialize into reality, it will require mana(info type 2) because it's a concept independent from reality and technically doesns't exist in it. The evidence is that it's superior to ancient magic(laws behind reality itself) and when Lilitus tried analyzing it she couldn't see anything.

Well yeah I mean the first explanation of Concept Magic is that essentially manifesting any concept into reality through your will.

It could mean that you can see the object, spell, soul and entity but the concept(will, conception...) behind it is not there cause it's not a part of reality.

Not sure if I agree with the last part.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Well yeah I mean the first explanation of Concept Magic is that essentially manifesting any concept into reality through your will.

The will itself become the concept then manifested into reality through mana.

Not sure if I agree with the last part.

Hajime can see ancient magic and information that make up reality, but still unable to percieve the will inside concept magic or conception.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Another example is Hajime not knowing that he was blessed by the affection(conception) of Enti the elemental spirit of wind, but Fairies related to wind were able to sense it.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

If oncept magic was concepts that are created from multiple individuals having the same desire, why it's hard to believe that multiple similar beliefs could create equal concepts (conception) ?


Soul is crazy

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Layers ?

Damn... This guy’s good... Hajime thought to himself. Red sparks ran down his arms as he desperately tried to keep up with Oscar. It was taking everything he had to keep the obelisk from falling apart. Even though he was the greatest Synergist alive in the present, he was having a tough time figuring out how to repair the seal. In fact, when he’d seen how complicated and precise the layers of magic circles that composed the seal were, he’d almost wanted to give up. To make matters worse, the obelisk itself was created from some ore he’d never seen before, and it was a hundred times more resistant to magic than sealstone.

Every time he repaired one section of the obelisk, another gave way, and when he repaired that yet another section fell apart. It was like trying to solve a puzzle that kept changing itself.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

The scale of Tio's ancestor

"This is one of the scales of our progenitor. It was the one thing my grandfather could not destroy, despite his best efforts. It grants immense power to any dragonman who touches it, but it also forces them to transform and destroys their mind, reducing them to a mere beast.”

Before the dragonmen elders had found a way to seal it away, there had been those who were lured in by the promise of power and ended up touching the scale. Naturally, they had all gone insane and needed to be slain.

However, exceptionally strong dragons, as well as those who carried the blood of the Klarus line, had been able to retain their sanity for a few minutes before being overwhelmed. Apparently, there were even a few who were able to regain their senses after being consumed, and took their own lives to prevent the scale from destroying them completely and birthing a second calamity. Vol 11 p350

"It seems our ancestor was a rather fierce man. I’m sorry, Grandfather, but could you ask the others to delay our departure? It will take some time to ease this poor soul’s sorrow—Limiter Removal!”

“Ngh, s-such power!”

Tio’s obsidian mana raged around her, beating back the blood-colored mana of the scale. The shockwaves created by the collision were so strong Adul couldn’t even approach Tio.

Meanwhile, Tio closed her eyes and began conversing with the soul of her ancestor, which was trapped within the scale. Vol 11 p352

Tio convincing him seem like social influencing

The black dragon—though it was so far above and beyond other dragons, even Uranos, that it was probably more fitting to call it a black dragon god—was, of course, Tio Klarus herself.

This was Tio’s ultimate spell—Dragon God’s Advent. It was the true nature of the power Tio had gained upon conquering the grudge remaining within the scale left behind by the very first Klarus. In exchange for amplifying the user’s destructive impulses and robbing them of all reason, it granted them enough power to transform into a dragon god. Vol 12 p268

"Hm? My apologies, I must have been misleading with my explanation. This power is quite similar to concept magic, but I do not think it is related.”

If it was, that would have meant that Tio’s ancestor had acquired all seven ancient magics and learned the truth about Ehit. And if that were true, there was no way that story wouldn’t have been passed down through Tio’s family line. And yet, it had been Tio’s grandfather who’d been the first to discover Ehit’s evil plot.

“My ancestor apparently possessed a very powerful special magic that was a cross between metamorphosis and spirit magic.”

Tio suspected he’d used that special magic to encode his grudge, the knowledge of how to perform the ultimate transformation, and a piece of his soul into his scales. Every dragonman’s soul was imbued with the dragonification factor that allowed them to transform, so putting that plus a hidden, deep-seated grudge into an inanimate object made it seem like it was concept magic despite beinf fundamentally different. Vol 12 p352

I could be wrong, but I think the difference between this and concept magic is that in the case of C.M. the will itself evolve into a concept.

Forget the lack of ancient magic as we know C.M. artifacts don't use all of them. What do you think ?

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

I got this accepted

Arifureta: Mana≈Soul≈Lifeforce

(Previous thread) Let's take a look at the definition of soul magic Spirit Magic: The ability to interfere with souls. The more precise definition of spirit magic is magic that manipulates the incorporeal elements of sentient beings. In more concrete terms, it could be used to manipulate the...

vsbattles.com

 

[Community_Gamer]

If oncept magic was concepts that are created from multiple individuals having the same desire, why it's hard to believe that multiple similar beliefs could create equal concepts (conception) ?

Potentially but you wouldn't assume that to be the case. This ain't Persona

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

A Shrine Maiden tries to seal away a Demon Lord(Kirin{Azure Striker Gunvolt} vs Hajime Nagumo{Arifureta: From Commonplace to World's Strongest})

Kirin(Azure Striker Gunvolt) Hajime Nagumo(After-Stories) Distance: 100 meters Speed Equalized Kirin is not paired with Gunvolt Kirin's Prevasion is restricted((In Kirin's profile it was noted that Prevasion can be restricted in matches since it can disabled in-verse) Djinn's Wish and Golden...

vsbattles.com

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Is the planet energy a UES ? Why ?

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Season 3 part 2